Joan Walsh: This is Garbage That Obama Bowed to his Left on the Health Care Bill
Joan Walsh does a good job on Hardball hitting back at the meme that the problem with the health care bill was that Obama bowed down to liberals when just the opposite is true. Of course Matthews and the corporate media are going to keep repeating the lie that Obama needs to move to the middle.
MATTHEWS:Chris and Joan, it seems to me there`s been a comparison between what we had yesterday in Massachusetts, and the one held in Pennsylvania, when Harris Wofford knocked off Richard Thornburgh, in that incredible race in `91. Is this has much of a leader, an indicator, of just where we`re headed -- Joan -- for this November?
WALSH: You know, I`m not sure it is but I do want to say I`ve spent the last week, Chris, saying, Martha Coakley ran a bad campaign, but we really do have to look at what this means for Democrats. And I think that`s the first and foremost thing that it means is that President Obama has simply not led.
He let the Republicans run this health care agenda. People want to blame Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi? He turned it over to the Senate`s Finance Committee, he gave Republicans their marching orders, he gave them rope to hang him and that`s what they did. That`s why we`re still talking about this a year after his inauguration.
MATTHEWS: So he`s been ineffective?
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: He`s been an effective progressive?
WALSH: Oh, please, don`t set me off today, Chris. I know you`re feisty. I`m really feisty. That`s the one thing I will be here to say.
This is garbage that he bowed to his left. This is a corporate bill with corporate giveaways that the left is pissed about. That`s the problem with it. And I`ll finish Howard Dean`s sentence. One more thing. Howard Dean was trying to say -- I don`t agree with him on everything. Martha Coakley lost the progressives because nobody cares that she`s for the public option. That is dead and gone because the President didn`t fight for it.
So the idea that he went too far to this left is simply, factually wrong.
MATTHEWS: No, I`m just asking whether Martha Coakley was the Progressive candidate out there and what she stood for. It sounds like she was addressing the issue the way you might do, had you been a candidate and I just wonder why the defeat of her didn`t signal a lack of favor for the position, is all I`m asking. I`m trying to learn here.
WALSH: I disagree. If you want to keep going with me, I will answer that. First of all, I would have been in a truck. I would not have gone on vacation; I would have worked my but off. I find it problematic that she didn`t. But I also think that she was saddled with the fact that this bill, as written, is a done deal. The other thing that is important in Massachusetts, Chris is that the president did cut a deal with Ben Nelson, which penalized progressive states like Massachusetts.. I heard this from my progressive friends. We have great health care here - it`s got problems. But we`ve made the extra effort and paid the extra money to do something progressive. And then you`re going to sell out to Ben Nelson and Nebraska, one of the least progressive states in the nation? So there`s a progressive narrative here.
Chris, you might hear a different message than that from some of the politicians in Massachusetts that I`ve been talking to in the last 24 hours. But I`m not going to give their message; let them give it.
Chris Cillizza, what`s the difference between what happened yesterday and what`s going to happen in November? Is this an indicator of big trouble for the Democrats if they run candidates like Coakley, if they talk like Coakley, if conditions are like they are now?
CILLIZA: I don`t know if we knew what Wofford presaged what it wound up doing until we look back. It`s kind of like 1993, Ron Lewis in Kentucky wins a special election in a Democratic-held seat, we look back after `94 and say, obviously Ron Lewis was a harbinger of things to come. The one thing that I think is very worrisome if you`re a Democrat, about November, it`s not certain that this is going to happen but independents.-- independents in Virginia moved away from the Democratic candidate. Independents in New Jersey - I`m talking about the governors races in 2009 - moved away from the Democratic candidate.
We don`t have exit polling here in Massachusetts, but I talked to lots of strategists, lots of people who were polling privately for the two candidates and the two parties. Brown won overwhelmingly among independents. That is a problem that the White House has to address. They`ve gotten by by saying, look, the president is still popular with independents. Maybe, but his policies are not that
And I think Joan is right. If it continues, I don`t think we can say, yes, today, this means that Democrats are going to lose the House or lose nine or ten seats in the Senate. We`re not there yet. But it`s not a good sign if you`re a Democratic strategist or an elected member of congress.
MATTHEWS: Joan, would you run Martha Coakley again in two years against Scott Brown?
WALSH: Not unless she really changed her whole approach to politics. I really think she needed to be much more people-centric, she really need to hear -- here`s the thing, Chris, she - Obama - I was listening to David Axelrod and it was really annoying -
MATTHEWS: I`m out of time, Joan. I`m sorry. We`ll have you back again, and again, and again.
Joan Walsh, thank you. Chris Cillizza.
What has Obama done that was liberal? The healthcare bill isn't his. It's Pelosi's and Reid's. We're still in Iraq and Afghanistan. If we get out of Iraq, it's because of a timetable set up by Bush. There are still prisoners in Guantanamo. No change there. It's been a lot of talk. The healthcare bill keeps getting whittled down. Less and less of what "liberals" wanted is left. But that's how the Senate works. Based on actual actions, I would say there has been little change since 2008.
He has done very little 'liberal' agenda. From the day Rick Warren delivered the invocation at Obama's inauguration I worried he was going to start the Kumbaya happy horseshit by reaching out to the right with an olive branch. And that's what he did and the right handed him back more lies and hatred than before. Until Obama starts playing politics with the gloves off he's going to get ridiculed like Massachusetts. I lived in Mass for 27 years and never saw a Democrat get spanked like that.
Up where I live, we call them people "whoosies."
he'll end up in the center.
the "center" is the far right.
A centrist is just a Righty that's really embarrassed by George W. Bush.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
in truth it's quite the opposite.
I thought that just left of center....
is the far left?
meant I was a socialist. Now I'm really confused.
as the "liberal" media is concerned.
CNN, John King blithely slipped in (re: Brown elected) this shows Obama has been playing to the far left and has to move to the centre. No one challenged.
Ummmm, healthcare is a corporate (sellout) bill, nothing left or "socialist" about it.
far left loon >.<
and chris salizza does a good job too.
________________
common sense matters as much as truth
is not your friend.
NBC is now brought to you by Comcast.
Get your corporations straight.
They are people, too!
they may relocate your town to another country. Oh wait, that may not be so bad after all . . .
They'll cut off your service or make you watch Leno.
The independents wanted the Dems to be stronger---you know the ones that write the bills---Congress:
C/P from an email :
We had Research 2000 poll voters immediately after the Election ended: Even Scott Brown voters want Democrats to be bolder and they want healthcare reform that includes a public option.
You read that right. By a margin of three-to-two, former Obama voters who voted for Republican Scott Brown yesterday said the Senate healthcare bill "doesn't go far enough." Six-to-one Obama voters who stayed home agreed. And to top it off, 80% of all voters still want the choice of a public option in the bill.
The message is clear, there is only one way out of this mess if Democrats want to win in 2010. It's time to pass healthcare with 51 votes in the Senate using the budget reconciliation process. And it must include the most popular piece of bold reform: the choice of a public option.
about the PUBLIC OPTION, then let's make certain the Progressive Caucus members demand that the PUBLIC OPTION be offered to ALL AMERICANS and not just 6 million who fall into a particular sector of the public, umkay?
Ya think that's gonna happen??!!
Me either.
So, let's cut out the CRAP about the PUBLIC OPTION, shall we?
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e69-GO4bYLM&fe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yarYjuN-m8I
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
He'd shut the f*** up once in a while.
That's exactly what I was thinking. He doesn't want to learn anything, he wants to screw with people's words. He wants to make a louder noise than anyone on his show, because after all, it's all about him and his gigantic ego that must be fed daily.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Just because Tweety's mouth may be in neutral momentarily does not guarantee that his ears are in gear.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
And he seems to cowtow to the righties and loves giving it to the progressives.
at the moment. Listening to him is about as useful as Al Roker is to your local weather forecast.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
I'd be thrilled if O moved to the middle, as he's been running things from right of center anyway.
Chris Cillizza "Democrats are going to lose the House or lose nine or ten seats in the Senate. We`re not there yet." you just have to love the 'yet', GOP has won ONE congressional seat out of the last 4, and they are on a roll? Isn't 41 not just yet a mojority of 100, or is my math that bad?
"is my math that bad?"
Depends if you are a D or an R
:)
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Go JOAN!
Poor wittle Tweety - he is just trying to learn.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
is pissed all right. Unfortunately people who are pissed often do things that are not in their own interest. The court dockets are filled with people who were pissed about something.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Excellent point.
I'll put my crazy plans on hold until the anger passes.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
I get that it's a Senate seat and it's six years. But it's six years of Republican instead of Blue Dog. Not a huge difference here. The sixty vote super-majority is gone, but how did that benefit progressives more than Joe Lieberman? It's not like they used it when they had it.
The negatives are minimal, and there are some positives. Within the Democratic Party, the Blue Dogs were unable to add another member and cement their influence. Also, in six years, a Republican will be far more easily challenged from the Left in Massachusetts than an incumbent Blue Dog Democrat.
I understand that most voters didn't do this calculus; they were just pissed off. But telling them they're being stupid by cutting off their nose to spite their face isn't going to help near as much as fixing the underlying reasons people are pissed off.
And making Blue Dogs lose is not necessarily cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Although there is the schadenfreude....
Corruption favors the wealthy.
1) Brown is up for re-election in 2012. He is only serving out the remainder of Kennedy's term.
2) Coakley was not a BlueDog. She was fighting Wall Street Banksters while she was AG of Massachusetts. If you don't sense an election scam here, you're not paying attention.
Great news. And I think it bolsters my point that the negatives are minimal.
But I'd really like some details on how the Coakley took on Wall Street as Attorney General for Massachusetts. Wall Street must be a lot longer road than I thought it was... with quite a few bridges :)
Corruption favors the wealthy.
But at the same time she was cozying up to Blue Cross and leaders within the Mass Plan:
http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/20...
Let's not forget that after she returned from her Caribbean vacation and discovered Brown was surging ahead, the big insurance corporations threw her a big fundraiser at a posh hotel in D.C.
Why do you think she was yacking about the PUBLIC OPTION?? Because she KNEW she'd never have to vote for it. It was off the table already.
She's a DLCer to the core. Straight out of Elitist Central.
Geesh.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
by people who are not pissed.
It's okay to be pissed, just use that pissed off-ness wisely.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
So "Patricia" must be derived from the Celtic expression for Wisdom? Makes sense.
But I did think the proper term was "pissed-off-edness, though I'll definitely defer to your expertise on the subject :)
Corruption favors the wealthy.
easier to Tweet/Twit (whatever...)
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
pissed offitude ?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Hah! Chris Cillizza made a funny.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
"Democratic
StrategistStrateegery":)
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Coakley ran a poor camapign - infighting with other dems and not doing a good job...
Therefore - Obama need to turn (right, left or center)?
See the logic is ANYTHING that happens means Obama has to turn (left right or center).
And the song remains the same.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Don't you understand anything in all your time getting educated on the blogosphere. It is either all Obama or all Rahm and his puppet Obama. If you believe the former you are sad and were misled. If you believe the latter you are a fighting mad REAL progressive who knew all along this would happen.
Congress and the Courts are too complicated to exist independently.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Apparently Tweety doesn't get it, there is no public option in the Senate's health care bill. So it really didn't matter what she stood for if the voters were trying to send a message to Obama and the Democratic leadership. Their two senators Kirk and Kerry both supported the public option. It was the White House, whom voters were trying to send a message to, that sold out on the public option and single payer. This was the voter's first chance to voice that displeasure to the administration. It seems he couldn't get what Joan Walsh and Howard Dean were trying to tell him, for a person who says he understands what voters think and what they vote on.
looks like the cartoon character, but because under all the blathering bullshit, he's just a bird brain. I haven't watched his show for over a month until tonight, and his lead story was about John Edwards. Now, at 5:45 pm eastern, he finally addresses the SCOTUS decision by playing an excerpt from the Hillary movie and has on one of the Citizens United shills. This is the last time I will pay him any mind.
To those who say he goes whichever way the wind is blowing, I'd counter that for well over the past year or two he has almost totally lathered over the right. I mean, how reverential can you be to someone like Tom DeLay?
I have been a little out of touch the last couple of days. Has the likeness of Scott Brown been carved into the side of Mount Rushmore yet? I am pretty sure the talk of his win will be the subject of all the Sunday Morning shows this week. I have never heard so much discussion about someone who nobody knows.
Chris tries to sound so in the know that he makes himself look foolish when he quizes his guest. I don't think his mouth and ears work at the same time.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I had it muted while listening to tunes, but his mug was on the tube the majority of the morning. I guess everyone in Haiti is fine...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
....wow...this quote is not new news, but the fact that this quote made 'the news' is big news. I guess that is all we can get excited about these days....someone stating the obvious!
Cue the Kabuki....
If this means dropping the whole recission, preexisting conditions and cancelling sick people stuff - what will be left?
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
.
I personally have no issue with the mandates. Deadbeats are a huge part of the problem. People who can afford coverage should have coverage.
Everybody should be covered. Some by the government but working folks with enough income shouldn't just game the system.
Now the rate or amount people pay is another issue.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
mandated Private healthcare are deadbeats?
what about universal healthcare?
Fuck insurance....just help sick people and FUCK the profit making.
and it would be the morally correct thing to do. Our government struggles with the morally correct part and doesn't really care too much for the people.
Oh...I'm sorry...I forgot what century I was living in. Thank you.
should do the right thing simply because it is the right thing to do.
What I was saying that...here we are in the 21st century and we act like we're back in the 17th or 18th.
In our current situation though, the wrong thing for us (the population getting screwed) to do, may turn out to be the right thing*.
*hint late 18th century France.
It's been a silent dream of mine for some time.
What purpose in healthcare do insurance corporations serve?
None that couldn't be done by the federal government using our tax dollars DIRECTLY to pay the doctors/hospitals while REMOVING THE PROFIT MARGIN AND SAVING THE TAXPAYERS MONEY.
So the health insurance corporations go out of business??
Cry me a freakin' river.
Somebody mentioned the other day, "Why can't we just start our own non-profit health insurance corporation?"
NEWSFLASH!!!! We already have one! It's called the United States Government. That place that takes our money out of our paychecks and gives us drones and illegal wars? I consider myself a STOCKHOLDER in the corporation known as the U.S. government and I would like for them to extend Medicare to ALL Americans.
There. Done. How hard was that?
How are we going to pay for it?
Cut back the MICC.
Next?
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
to game the system???? Which they will continue to do easily with the Senate Bill.
Everyone pays, and everyone covered. Problem solved.
Was when I was listening to Stephanie Miller on the way to work this morning. She played a quote from Obama.
On this recording, he said, "To be fair,I think we need to let Sen Elect Brown be seated before we proceed with HRC."
WTF !
What is your conceptual, continuity?
The rest of what he said was the people of Mass. have spoken and their voices should be heard.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
The people of Mass. speak up about gay marriage? Did we hear their voices? I suppose it's just selective hearing on the RW's part.
When I heard that, I damn near drove off the road.
The people of MA have their own health care system. Why would they want to risk losing what they have for something that's not as good? I'm not saying what they have in MA is good. Because I don't live there and know little about it. But it stands to reason that they don't want this HC bill.
That was part of the reason Brown won.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
One of the reports I heard was Brown asked the voters why should they have to pay for someone else to have healthcare? I mean they have theirs, so what is so typical of republicans, why should they help others have what they already have.
Republicans seem to have a not so attractive selfish gene.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I shouldn't have to pay taxes for roads, or if I don't have a kid, I shouldn't have to pay school taxes.
Jebus Christ.....Repubs are just FOUL. And stupid.
The GOP, the party of I got mine so screw the rest of you.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
-----what?
Kiss me!
When I'm being f*cked, I like to get kissed a lot.
---Al Pacino as Sonny Wortzik, "Dog Day Afternoon"
The Mass Plan is a failure:
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2010/01...
Please take a moment to read it so you will understand that the reason Massachusetts voters sent Scott Brown to D.C. in order to put the brakes on the despotic healthcare legislation is because they are LIVING UNDER THE FAILED MASS PLAN RIGHT NOW and they realize that the federal legislation is The Mass Plan on steroids!
God knows I've tried to explain this to everyone here.
This is why everyone at Brown's rallies kept chanting, "41, 41, 41, 41!!!!!", because he would deliver the 41st vote to stop the Democrats from passing the bill.
Please. I beseech you folks. Read Trudy Lieberman's article then maybe you'll understand what is going on here.
Then it may seem clear to everyone why Brown is saying, "We need to kill this legislation and START OVER. WE....CAN....DO.....BETTER."
I agree. We CAN do better.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
If he bowed to the left, where are the death panels we were wanting? I thought all those on the left wanted to snuff out grandma and as of the last I heard that's not part of the deal. I know this because Sarah Palin told me so. True story. ;)
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
One of the reasons I never watch the talking asshats is their sound bite bullshit. Never time for the best remarks.
like everything republican it's just insane!
is one of the reasons I no longer watch any of the cable news shows.
He/they are so full of their own crap and run-a-way half thoughts that every thing just get mixed into mush while their rethug counter balance usually ends up dominating what's left of the conversation with their own crap and run-a-way half thoughts.
The dems don't deserve the gift of the oval and congress that we worked so darned hard to give them.
I do like Lawrence O'Donnell, though.
Is it allowable for an elected President to decide to switch parties while in office? I'm not saying this would happen here, although it would not surprise me. But is it allowable, since Sens and Reps seem to to it with abaandon?
This is all moot. Harry Reid! Scott Brown! And more are Mormons! Massachusets elected Mormons! Tell the Baptist! Tell the Masons! We're getting duped. Mormons are telling us what to do. The mormons ruined my little family. I was one, but I didn't like the baby raping they called mulitple marriage so they destroyed my family. They'll destroy America too...Call out the Tea Baggers! This is UnAmerican! Scott Brown is a Mormon! Reid is a Mormon! This isn't right. They don't like Jesus. They like money and Joseph Smith.
kind helped us into this mess. So supporting it, is probably not a good idea, FYI.
and shot to death on a public street by an angry mob in Missouri because they believed him to be MENACE TO SOCIETY! That was a couple of hundred years ago... and they were right. I lived in southern Utah recently for a couple of years... and those people are STILL NUTS! Liberaliscious, I usually agree with stuff you post here... but this time, I gotta say that trying to compare "Religious bigotry" to DISSING MORMONS... well... that just does not compute.
You missed the point:
This was a dominant religion literally wiping out the leader of a minority religion
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Scott Brown is not a Mormon. Where do you get your information?
And you were not LDS. You might have been FLDS, but that's not the same thing. The LDS church (of which I am not a member) does not advocate multiple marriages or baby-raping. You might have watched one too many episodes of Big Love.
I find it a little scary that a progressive would advocate discrimination on the grounds of religion.
Actually, I was a Mormon, and the LDS still has polygamy and polyandry on their books as allowable
But they dropped it in practice to gain admission into the Union
And they believe in obeying the law as per the 13 Articles of Faith:
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Chris had Pat Buchanan on the tail end of his show tonight. Pat said, according to his research, that he knows which way the country is moving. He said white, less educated independents are moving en masse to the republican party. What I heard was stupid white people are voting republican. He compared Brown's popularity to that of Palin. What I heard was this is another self serving person playing to the tea baggers.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
sponsors
Brown/Palin 2012!
They're popular, they're clueless, they're easy for us (Corp, Inc.) to manipulate, and if they get out of hand, they are dispensable.
Enjoy them while they last, and be sure to catch next week's Corp, Inc. Idol!
already is the rethug party.
Case in point: Pat Buchanan (OK - he may be educated but he's still a racist moron.)
I agree. Buchanan seemed to think his research had found something we didn't already know. Coming from him it was especially distasteful.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
.
And like Sarah Palin, Scott Brown is a faux populist who pretends to be middle class while pulling in a six-figure annual income.
Classy! Money doesn't solve everything.
You know, like Bush II.
I've had it with both parties. Obama has bowed so much to what the Republicans want he may as well be Republican. They deserve NOTHING. I'm voting 3rd party in 2012.
When the 2010 elections arrive I'm switching my party registration from Democrat to Green and voting for the Green Party indefinitely until a real progressive comes along.
You voted for a misleading apparition sold to you by corporatists.
It is not your fault.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
There is no real justice here, and no probably no real voting going on either. It's just an illusion to placate the public.
I guess he's gotten over George W. in a cod piece and has a new love.
that wasn't his leg that was tingling. :|
A few politicians and Villagers are saying that the Democratic party needs to move to the center. Actually this advice is spot on. The problem comes in that the center is actually way to the left of where we are now. Obama and a good bit of the Democratic party have been carrying water for the corporate world and are way to the right. They need to come back to the center.
If Barry Goldwater were alive, I strongly believe that he would be a Democrat, at least in belief and action if not in name. His positions were to the left of Lieberman's present position of enabling the insurance corporations. Goldwater believed in the people, not the corporations. And he was bright enough to realize that there was a difference between people and corporations, something that five members of the SC don't seem to be able to grasp.
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