Andy Cobb and Josh Funk have some fun with Dana Milbank and Chris Cillizza for their terribly unfunny attempt at humor at the Washington Post, Post's Milbank, flashing Hillary Clinton photo: "We won't tell you who's getting a bottle of Mad Bitch" beer.
Update:
From Howard Kurtz: Post's Video 'Theater' Ends Its Run, Hosts Apologize for Off-Color Clinton Joke:
On Hardball, Harold Ford pulls out the 24 ticking time bomb red herring and says he might have voted for torture after our country was attacked on 9/11. Matthews slams him for veering into "Cheney country" and rightfully so.
With Democrats like these, who needs Republicans? Chris Cillizza isn't much better with more of his talk of polls and how many Americans approve of torture. Apparently Joan Walsh's lecture didn't get through to him.
Matthews: You know it's interesting Congressman it seems like Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats are caught trying to do two things at the same time. You see her standing there in front of a million flags sincerely trying to look as nationalistic as the Republicans. I mean patriotic...in other words tough. Anything that goes to the defense of the country we're going to be tough as nails as opposing any enemy of any kind. We're tough as the Republicans are. At the same time trying to express sympathy for prisoners, bad guys. Is that a problem? You seem to be suggesting it is. You can't be both tough as nails and at the same time look like you worry about human rights violations. Is that a problem politically or not?
Ford: No. I think Eric Holder said this best when referring to the Ted Stevens case in the aftermath and when he stepped forward and said we would not, the Justice Department would not move forward. He said the most important thing in the Justice Department is not winning, it's justice. So in this sense I think having the conversation about what happened and whether or not at Guantanamo Bay, and I'm not as outraged as some are about it because as much as I think some of those techniques were enhanced and might have risen to a level of torture you have to remember when this was occurring.
This is 2002, 2003. The country was in a different place, in a different space. And if you were to say to me, as an American, put aside my partisanship, that we have an opportunity to gain information that would prevent the destruction of an American city, to prevent killings in American cities, and we have to use certain techniques, I’m one of those Americans that would have voted a certain way, Chris. And that polling said it might have been torture, but I’m not as outraged.
Matthews: You are veering into Cheney country here. The destruction of an American city. What evidence did you ever have that the enemy had a nuclear weapon that could blow up an American city? Where'd that..that's Cheney talk. That is..that's what he uses to justify torture. We have no evidence that any enemy of ours had a nuclear weapon.
From CNN's Realiable Sources. Joan Walsh tries to get through to David Frum and Chris Cillizza that public opinion polls and whether anyone can claim that torturing prisoners "worked" or not do not matter.
WALSH: You know, I couldn't disagree more with my friend Chris. This is not a "he said/she said" situation. This is torture. Torture is illegal. We don't sit here, Howie, and say he said murder is illegal, but she said, well, sometimes murder's not so bad. These are clear matters of law.
Ronald Reagan signed the 1988 U.N. Convention Against Torture where we committed ourselves to prosecuting people who torture. It's the law. It's super clear. It's not a partisan witch hunt or a "she said/he said" situation.
KURTZ: David Frum.
FRUM: It's not super clear, because the key piece of information people need, most people need to make a decision, is missing. Look, there's a hard core of civil libertarians who will say, I don't care whether this contributed to the defense of the country. Forget it, we won't do it, even if it means Americans die. And then there are some people who say, I support the president no matter what.
But most people want to know, did this contribute to the nation's safety? If so, we'll come to one judgment. If it was wasteful, as it's sometimes alleged, and achieved nothing, then we all condemn it. That's the thing we need to know, and that's the thing we don't know. That's the missing piece in all the reportage.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: No, it's illegal, whether it works or not. It's illegal whether it works or not, David.
FRUM: Well, as I said, there's a small minority who would feel like Joan does.
WALSH: Oh, really?
FRUM: Most people want to know, did it -- and that is the missing or the contradicted piece. We don't have a clear answer to that question.
WALSH: It doesn't matter.
CILLIZZA: Howie, I just want to...
KURTZ: Chris.
CILLIZZA: Joan, just real quickly, I just want to point out, in our poll that came our this morning, 49 percent of people said no torture under any circumstances; 48 percent, in some special circumstances, depending on the information. That's not my opinion.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: But Chris, the point is it's illegal. In what instance does it matter that 80 percent of Americans would like to murder Dick Cheney? Does that -- would that make it legal? It's not a matter of opinion. It's law.
Full transcript below the fold.
