Democrats Still Running Scared on National Security

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I tell you, it's hard to watch this stuff and not want to just beat your head against the wall. After playing some of Sister Sarah's fearmongering and playing the terrorism card during her speech to the Tea Baggers the other night, the panel on CNN's State of the Union discuss how the Democrats have been reacting to the Republicans deciding to try to scare the bejesus out of everyone with the trial of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab possibly being held in New York and with the newly elected Senator Scott Brown deciding to play the fear card as part of his campaign rhetoric.

Jane Mayer who has a new article at the New Yorker out on the subject and the fear mongering over Khalid Sheikh Mohammed being tried in New York as well points out how completely ridiculous all of this is and that that AG Eric Holder is "up against two big myths right now. One myth is that what the Obama administration is doing is any different than what the Bush administration did in terms of prosecuting terrorism".

Of course as Dana Bash points out, having the truth on their side never seems to be enough to keep the Democrats from running like scared sheep instead of standing up to the Republicans since they're afraid the terrorism issue is going to hurt them at the polls. But even Chris Cillizza realizes that they're behind the curve with the public actually caring about terrorism. They're more worried about the economy.

I'm just tired of all of them treating the American people like the scared sheep the Democrats seem to be when it comes to getting reelected and any of them, no matter what party, playing the fear card. It's tiresome. It's extremely tiresome watching the Democrats cave to the likes of Sarah Palin, or Scott Brown or any of them when they go out there throwing flames. Of course sadly our media is happy to carry those torches for them, especially at ClusterFox as they hurl the flames and hope to keep the public as misinformed and afraid as possible.

Transcipt below the fold via CNN.

CROWLEY: So, true story, last night, Dana and I, because apparently neither of us had anything better to do, were watching this. And she e-mailed me as I was e-mailing something else, both with the same message, "2004 called and they want their issue back."

CROWLEY: It seems to me that all of this talk about the economy, the economy, that this other issue has slipped in about how this administration is treating those suspected terrorists and the trials in New York?

CILLIZZA: You know Candy, I think what is interesting about it is that it's an issue that waxes and wanes with the American public. In the years after September 11th, without any pressing attack or threat of the attack, as an issue, it dropped off. People didn't cite it as much. It wasn't on their mind as much, but now with the trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as well as the attack, alleged attack, attempted attract in Detroit, it's now back on peoples' minds more.

And Sarah Palin is playing to a very, very passionate strain -- not clear how big yet, but a passionate strain within the Republican Party. But also more broadly in politics, that says the Obama administration is handling this in a sterile analytical way, and they need to go out there and say -- to quote Sarah Palin, her theory on terrorism, we win, they lose. Some people see it in that stark terms. And as you know in politics, if you can fit it on a bumper sticker, it is usually better than if you can't.

MAYER: You know, it makes a great sound byte, for sure, to be able to talk like that. But she has a knack for encapsulating exactly the problem, which is when she says we need a commander-in-chief and not a law professor.

She is suggesting what the Obama administration would say is a false choice. The president is not only the commander in chief to here defend the nation from any kind of threat, but he also is the defender of the Constitution. He takes an oath -- he swears an oath to uphold the Constitution, and the Constitution, unfortunately for her, requires that inside of America, you read any suspect, you take their rights. They have a right to remain silent, they have a right to a lawyer, they have a right to due process. It's not -- there is not an alternative legal system that exists out there where you could just snap...

CROWLEY: I was going to say there is the Constitution and the politics.

BASH: Right, exactly, and the problem is that what Sarah Palin said last night is resonating big time, especially among the president's fellow Democrats on Capitol Hill.

This past week, I spent a lot of time talking to Democratic senators in the hallway, listening to what they were saying on this, and there is deep, deep concern about what the president is doing. And somewhat on the policy, the whole idea of trying these suspects in civilian courts, but much more on the politics.

They feel that -- many of these Democrats feel that this is a losing issue and there is a lot of blame that they are pointing towards the Obama administration for not explaining this well. I talked to one source who said that look, they actually may have the policy on their side, but they did virtually nothing from the perspective of Democrats who have to actually run, many of them, in 2010 in November, to actually explain that this is something that they feel that is a necessary thing to do. Because Republicans are very much getting the better of Democrats and of the administration, because you could hear it from Sarah Palin.

MAYER: The situation is that the Obama administration allowed these decisions to be made by the attorney general.

CROWLEY: Let me interrupt just because interrupt because the ins and outs, I just wanted to point out Jane Mayer's article in the "New Yorker," which does do the ins and outs, so I'm just going to like establish to tell us how they came to this decision. It's a great article. You should read it.

MAYER: Well, I mean, he is very frustrated, the Attorney General Eric Holder because basically he is up against two big myths right now. One myth is that what the Obama administration is doing is any different than what the Bush administration did in terms of prosecuting terrorism.

The Bush administration prosecuted and convicted something like 150 terrorists in the criminal courts here, and three down in military commissions.

BASH: That is those people we've heard of, Richard Reid, the biggies.

MAYER: And put them away for life. And so they are doing much of the same thing as all previous administrations have done. And the track record, there's a complete myth that the military is somehow tougher and more efficient than America's courts. The track record is bad in the military commissions. They have convicted three people, one for life and two for a matter of a couple months who are freed now.

CILLIZZA: Just very quickly on the political. I think that in some ways, Dana is right, I think. There is real trepidation among many vulnerable Democrats about this. But I just wonder if they are fighting the last 2004 election, too. I looked before we came on, 2008 exit polling, among people who were very worried about another terrorist attack, John McCain won 54 to 43. Among people who were somewhat worried though, Barack Obama won 51-48.

National security and terrorism has been a fading issue for Republicans over the last few years. Now, that may well be because it hasn't been as the top of the mind. But I think if Republicans are depending on solely on this, solely on national security and terrorism to get them back in the majorities, it's not enough because you know what, look at any poll and the economy is by far the overarching issue.

BASH: And that's what the White House -- I talked to somebody at the White House last night who said if you look at the polling, I think 60 something percent of Americans think that the Obama administration is actually doing the right thing, has the right approach.

MAYER: The one issue where they completely are losing out is on trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in New York City. And the numbers are just upside down for them.

CROWLEY: I just want to throw in one thing because their whole -- the premise that they tried to sell was it is important for people to see American jurisprudence at work, that we give people fair trials. Now I want you to listen to Robert Gibbs last week on the show with John King.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is going to meet justice and he's going to meet his maker. He will be brought to justice and he is likely to be executed for the heinous crimes that he committed in killing and masterminding the killing of three how 3,000 Americans. That you can be sure of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: So there is that whole innocent until proven guilty. And then there is -- and this is not the least of the statements that have been made. They have also said, well, you know, if he's -- what if he's found guilty? Don't worry, we will just lock him up. Well then what is the point here? We've got a dual signal from them on this.

MAYER: They have done, I think people would tell you from the Hill, both Democrats and Republicans, a poor job of salesmanship on this subject.

BASH: And that's an understatement.

MAYER: Part of the reason is Eric Holder, the attorney general, sees his job as he wants to be an a-political attorney general. He thinks especially after the last administration, it's important not to be seen as political. But the White House was divided about the subject, about what to do with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. And Rahm Emanuel, the chief of staff, was not keen on trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in civilian courts, especially in New York City. And so you have not seen, I think, the full effort of the White House behind this.

BASH: And the one thing I would add to what you said, Chris, about the polling from the last election, that that might be true, but that was before Scott Brown, and that was also before you had Christmastime when everybody was scared to death because all of a sudden you had a guy with more than fire crackers in his pants.

And Scott Brown was able to use that and combine it with the way the administration wants to try these guys, and to say you wait a minute, you really want them to have the same rights that you do? And you talk to anybody in the Brown campaign and they will tell you that was blockbuster, that was off the charts. And that's why the Democrats are more concerned.

CILLIZZA: One of the most important things, I think, just to plug Jane's piece again, one of the important things in the piece is Eric Fehrnstrom who many of us know, who worked with Governor Romney when he ran for president, who was deeply involved in this campaign, says that the national security was critically important. Scott Brown had some level of military background. He essentially said I think we should not treat these people as somebody who shoplifted. We should treat them as enemy combatants. And that played to that populist image.

I think we have a misconception in some ways here in Washington about why and how Scott Brown won. He didn't just win because of health care. He won in a lot of ways, the populism, that national security, that I understand, meanwhile the people in Washington, they are continuing to do things that make no sense in keeping you safe. Critically important piece of it that a lot of people miss that Jane didn't.



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25 comments

I was watching a similar conversation on ABC's This Week .. some ignorant right wing apologist was very seriously discussing whether or not to "mirandize" terror suspects. and the roundtable was taking it very seriously.

to me the entire idea seemed absurd and here's why. the GOP has no sense of implementation, no sense of execution, when they come up with this kind of crap.

how, specifically, would they enforce the new rules of whether or not to "mirandize" someone. how do you codify that. where do you draw the line so that college kids with student visas caught smoking weed in the dorm still get their mirandas, but so that evil terror cell participants don't?

how do we ensure that legitimate American citizens and visitors still receive their miranda rights, but that evildoers don't? where do you draw the line?

religious extremists are incredibly crafty and hide easily amongst us, so its not very easy to codify who should and shouldn't receive miranda rights.

and frankly (and I'm sorry for saying this) but not all cops are the brightest bricks in the barn. so how do we protect our law enforcement from being punished for failing to read miranda rights to someone they misinterpret as a terrorist, and how do we protect our law enforcement from being singled out by DA's for punishment if they inadvertently and incorrectly tell legitimate "terrorists" that they have the right to remain silent?

***

the same can be said for these ridiculous assertions that certain persons plotting to commit crimes on American soil should receive traditional trials and others shouldn't.

how do you implement the new system of law for those persons you deem unworthy of traditional American law?

what policies and procedures and constitutional protections do both the prosecution and defense have, and what do they not have?

how do jurisdictional borders work?

and quite frankly, since we're talking about new systems of law and departments, who's gonna pay for all this, and who oversees them?

***

I think the smartest thing democratic leadership could do, is to demand that the party of "no" articulate the alternative, and demand they articulate the implementation and execution of the specific procedures which would need to take place to upgrade the system which has worked well enough for over 250 years.

are convicted of something evil? Who gets to decide this? This is all nonsense, and they are playing to the fears of those who do not understand the Constitutional rights afforded ALL people while in this country. This is one of the biggest red herrings I have ever encountered, and when did Rahm start dictating policy? He needs to be put in his place. Or, if he is already in his place, people need to stop blaming him for things he doesn't actually control. No matter what is going on, BHO is NOT stupid.

Your point: "to me the entire idea seemed absurd and here's why. the GOP has no sense of implementation, no sense of execution, when they come up with this kind of crap."

Reminds me of one of the things that is not only wrong with the Republican Party, but also corporate America. You get incompetent people in power who have no clue how to run anything (but believe they are ordained and wonderful at their job) who continually come up with "processes" or "slogans" as a means of "doing their job."

Democrats and others in the government and corporations are the ones actually doing the work in spite of these ignorant overlords.

what is it with the damn Dems that allow this BS..The Media is to blame for blanketing the air with a cribbed 'betty boop' speaking to less than 600 in Opryland but then again no one but Grayson and the President are calling them on it!

Appalling sickness of mind in the media and the republican party! With Dem panywastes standing by in the wings doing NOTHING for the AMerican people!

By the By- the hopey-changey thing is working just fine for me --He is President of the Free World and she speaks to less than 600 with no creds who pay to watch! Come on people!

Perhaps the best thing about Redstate's delusional wingnuttia and outright twisting of the truth is maybe, just maybe, they will be able to pull off pushing a sure fire looser (or should I say sure fire quitter) to be the Rushthugliklan nominee against Obama in 2012.

http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/2010/02/...

Run Sarah! Run!!

As if there is a security problem with prosecuting criminals in NYC? The Mafia has morte people in and out of that system and we prosecute them all the darn time.

It is a mountain made from a molehill.

Like those on the right squealing about how the defendant will be able to make the trial into some kind of platform? When has that ever happened without a judge putting a gag on the defendant if necessary?

The whole thing is a no brainer.

hear everything going on, but can't interrupt. These people OWE NYC. New Yorkers are not afraid. Bring it!

Where else should it be held? Depends, Florida?

radio stations.

politicians like brown and media operatives and lazy celebrity talking heads serving republican and corporate ownership just have to repeat what has already been pounded into the earholes of 50mil by the end of the week.

stopping the trial was a radio priority for weeks and brown jumped on the bandwagon. it only works because the dumbass left continues to think they can ignore what's blasting from their local RW radio station and wait for an ipod in every car. the GOP is nothing without their uncontested radio repetition and when the left starts picketing those stations on a regular basis and finally getting their reps backs the obstruction will fall apart.

If you repeat a lie five times in public, it becomes the truth.

I saw some of this show but couldn't stomach it. Nobody really said anything, no new ideas. I'm a tea partier, a libertarian Constitutionalist, I think Sarah Palin is a cute cheerleader at best and an idiot at worst, Glenn Beck is a charlatan looking for fame, Rush is a loudmouthed bigot.

There are all kinds of us fed up with this administration and the prior one, with a warmongering government apparently run by corporations.

However, my kind are lumped into one big pot, portrayed as extreme right-wingers and Rush lovers. It simply isn't so. Stop watching CNN and Fox along with the other Big 3. There is no news there, they are all fear-mongering... note CNN has started to play tapes of people dying in car crashes; they showed a young man in the throes of death having been shot in the act of supposedly stealing a bag of rice in Haiti. They've sunk so low. TV news in a sorry state. You won't get the truth there, only the bias.

... welcome.

It's always a pleasure to meet someone who is open to discussing ideas without the truckload of baggage that usually accompanies political discussions.

Looking forward to your input.

. . . it's only purpose is to ensure that criticism is always from the Right. Obama is now a defender of the Constitution?

That might be surprising to the families of the three Guantanamo "suicides"; or those prisoners who still aren't getting a trial or even charged, or anyone that examines the Obama administration's legitimizing of John Yoo and Jay Bybee.

But the only conversation the nation is allowed to have is whether or not the underwear bomber should be tortured. Sure, we're a real bastion of principles.

These are two excellent places to find out what is really going on. They take no prisoners.

... reading his book, How Would A Patriot Act?

I would also recommend Bruce Schneier's Beyond Fear as a primer in how to think about security, rather than the color-coded panic attacks we have in place now.

But Marcy Wheeler hits on these issues (and others) early and often.

a country run by "bastards without principles." My bad.

... if it's not sufficient to the task of granting basic rights to someone like Umad Farouk Abdulmutallab?

I mean, seriously - a guy who managed to light his nuts on fire is so dangerous, so threatening, that we have to undermine the Constitution?

I'd grant the same rights to Osama bin Laden, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Sarah Palin. Because those rights aren't worth spit if they only apply selectively, and that selection is being made out of fear rather than rational thought.

American remains a cesspool of unmoral thought.

MSM there would not be 10 republicans in government.
republicanism/conservatism is a mental illness!

... wouldn't take a nibble at that nice, big bundle of cash?

Hey, what's that shiny-pointy thing? Looks dangerous ... well, maybe not all THAT dangerous ... and that bundle of cash looks mighty tasty ... why, I could probably nip that cash and not even have to worry about that shiny-pointy thing ... it would be shimple, ahl I haf tooth doof ihf ... ahwh ghohdhammhit.

In all the times I've seen her, she seems to always have some "wishful thinking" that the Democratic Party is going to struggle in some fashion.

Her and Noonan drive me to get sick.

It looks like a massive attack is going to happen in Helmand province. The big question is whether it's going to be another Fallujah.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htiw/article...

As if the other fish in the ocean ...
Mon, 02/08/2010 - 17:38 — Shadowgm
... wouldn't take a nibble at that nice, big bundle of cash?

Hey, what's that shiny-pointy thing? Looks dangerous ... well, maybe not all THAT dangerous ... and that bundle of cash looks mighty tasty ... why, I could probably nip that cash and not even have to worry about that shiny-pointy thing ... it would be shimple, ahl I haf tooth doof ihf ... ahwh ghohdhammhit.

+1 Now that was funny. Thanks for the reminder to clean my screen.

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9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11

THOSE WHO STOOD DOWN THAT DAY WERE NOT DEMOCRATS

9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11

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25 comments

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