This doesn't sound good.

SCHULTZ: And finally, my sources on Capitol Hill—going to health care now, Chuck—are telling me that in the Senate, the public option is in serious trouble.

Are you hearing that?

TODD: I‘ve heard the same thing. You know, in the Finance Committee, Kent Conrad, who‘s the guy that sort of created the idea for the co-op, what I would advise you, Ed, is get to know what this co-op is going to do.

I‘ve talked to some who are big advocates of the public insurance option who believe they can do things within the framework of this co-op that will make folks who are supporters of the public—overall big public option feel better about this. But the fact of the matter is, you‘re not going to get Grassley. You might not get Ben Nelson. You might not get Kent Conrad for anything that‘s called a public insurance option.

And the “co-op” may be just better language to use and easier to sell in some of these places. So, as somebody said, it can walk like a duck, it can quack like a duck. You just can‘t call it a duck. And so, “co-op” may be the language of choice here.

Kent Conrad and Chuck Todd obviously think we're all dumb as stumps.