Gordon Brown self-destructs
Eight days before the British election Labour Party leader Gordon Brown makes a tremendous gaffe on an open mic. The polls suggest Labour is already in third place but this may collapse their vote entirely. From the Telegraph:
Emboldened by Mr Brown's new confidence dealing with the great British public, one of his senior Downing Street staffers, Sue Nye, clearly thought he would be more than a match for Gillian Duffy, an opinionated 66-year-old widow who was vociferously voicing her views to anyone who would listen as Mr Brown visited a community payback scheme for offenders in Rochdale.
Mrs Duffy was delighted - robustly telling the Prime Minister her thoughts on a range of issues, from student tuition fee, to the deficit and, apparently to Mr Brown's disgust, immigration.
Their conversation was overheard by dozens of gleeful journalists and camera crews, again to Mr Brown's dismay.
As he climbed into his waiting Jaguar, he turned to his adviser and demanded to know who had been responsible for putting him in a situation he found so uncomfortable.
"She's just a sort of bigoted woman who says she used to be Labour," he raged.
Full transcript of the exchange below with Brown's open contempt for a voter who has probably supported Labour her entire life.
Brown: But they shouldn't be doing that, there is no life on the dole for people any more. If you are unemployed you've got to go back to work. It's six months.
Duffy: You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're … but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?
Later, as he was leaving
Brown: Very good to meet you, and you're wearing the right colour today. Ha, ha, ha: How many grandchildren do you have?
Duffy: Two. They've just got back from Australia where they got stuck for 10 days. They couldn't get back with this ash crisis.
Brown: We've been trying to get people back quickly. Are they going to university. Is that the plan?
Duffy: I hope so. They're only 12 and 10.
Brown: Are they're doing well at school? [pats Duffy on the back] A good family, good to see you. It's very nice to see you.
In the car
Brown: That was a disaster. Well I just ... should never have put me in that woman. Whose idea was that?
Aide: I don't know, I didn't see.
Brown: It was Sue [Nye] I think. It was just ridiculous.
Aide: I'm not sure if they [the media] will go with that.
Brown: They will go with that.
Aide: What did she say?
Brown: Oh everything, she was just a sort of bigoted woman. She said she used to be Labour. I mean it's just ridiculous.
When I first heard this story, it wasn't that bad, but now that I listen to the entire thing, Gordon Brown is finished. He sounded so fake, the first thing he whines about is "who put me with that woman". It's annoying to talk to people? UK's getting a new PM!
His answers were pretty uninspiring but the woman's comment about Eastern Europeans is similar to how many here feel about Mexicans and the supposed "burden" on our economy and jobs. In Western Europe there is a lot of bigotry toward Eastern Europe and Brown apparently doesn't like that.
Personally, I think he was in the same position McCain was in when he had the crazy woman calling Obama a Muslim. The woman appears to be a bigot, just more polite about it than out nation's teabaggers and Arizona residents.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
As I've said before in this forum, you can't question immigration at all without instantly being called a bigot.
Clearly the real bigots are elitist, politically correct politicians like Gordon Brown and Barack Obama, who feel that ordinary voters are beneath them.
...elevated your ordinary self above bombastic, spiteful, venomous, and rhetoric-laced generalizations, that way you can maintain the high ground and we can all look up to you in meek awe.
Now go have some milk and cookies.
I'm just superstitious enough to hedge my bets.
Criticizing Gordon Brown or the people in this forum for their overreactions towards immigration opponents is clearly not the same as labelling immigration opponents bigots. What's different is not the form of the criticism necessarily, but rather the intent. I could express my dissatisfaction with Gordon Brown or the people in this forum in any number of ways, and all I would be doing is expressing an opinion. On the other hand, it's obvious those who respond to critics of religion or immigration with words like bigot or racist are attempting to shut down debate and freedom of speech.
are "attempting to shut down debate and freedom of speech." I see. "Free speech for me but not for thee" is how you roll. Not that this shocks me, coming from you.
me-oww!
I love the "Ignore user" button.
*click*
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
You have a political position which is logically indefensible, so you simply cut off the debate. RWers do this with religion, just as LWers do it with immigration.
you can express an opinion, but when others are critical of it, you are being oppressed. It's a win-win for you, innit?
me-oww!
Yeah,
Freequark is just a typical rightie, who whines and whines and whines whenever anyone disagrees with him/her. I'll never understand those people. I also like this ignore user button.
"click"
Did I somehow have the wrong video?
The immigration issue in Europe is complicated by the Muslim issue, as well. The idea that people do not want to have their laws and politics heavily influenced by a theocratic immigrant population is a response I can readily identify with. And in times of heavy unemployment, the competition of cheap immigrant labor with the home born population is bound to create friction. I don't have answers for these problems, but I agree with some on this site who suggest that labeling all opponents of immigration as bigots is wrongheaded.
Candideinnc
Yeah, but I'm worried it might be that slime-bag Tory.
might be the end of Gordon, might not. anything that boosts the libdems would be great for british politics imo.
best tweet on the subject (RT @bat020) :
seems you're even not allowed to call them bigots any more - it's political correcteness gone mad, I tell you...
He didn't curse, make any sexist remark, etc. Indeed, by calling her a bigot, it actually reinforces his commitment to fairness for all.
. . . for a voter that has probably supported [the politician's party] her entire life?
Same old, same old. Where America leads, Britain will soon follow.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
No not stunned---dead. Nice knowing you, Gordon.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
.
er, Prime Minister.
No big deal. That's what they all say after being "forced" to converse with the little people. Now THAT's elitist.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
Buh-bye, Gordie!
If you do, did you think it was funny? I have only met two responses to that joke. Those who crack up, like me, and those who think I am totally deranged because I think it's quite funny. If you don't remember it, I'll tell it to you.
I don't think I've heard it.
Then let me know what you think. See fiver's link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWWg5shNWR4
I thought the one I found was bad.
Absolutely horrible :)
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Typical Monty Python! Thank you, savannah :)
And now for something really different:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zss6-E-b8PA
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
Priceless!
And I think I found it.
Horrible :)
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Kinda reminds me of Kids in the Hall, who I really like.
Sick and twisted!
;)
I was thinking Kids in the Hall too.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
This was the lead story on BBC World this afternoon.
Some of her comments were heard in their meetup, and she definitely is a bigot of the "what are they doing here in my country?" type.
With the current Arizona anti-immigrant mess going on over here, we should all be familiar with her type by now.
I found it interesting though that, when told of Brown's remarks, Duffy said she "probably won't vote" at all in the coming election. She didn't threaten to support his opponent, she instead resigned not to vote at all.
There's a lesson in there somewhere.
* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.
This may be the nail in the coffin for Brown, but it could have been much worse. At least the worst thing he said was bigot! I would have loved it if that thing had stayed on all throughout the day...Imagine the number of awful things he could have said. This one event won't lose him the election; he was already on thin ice. This just seals his fate, in my opinion. His image, which was bad to begin with, seems irreparable at this point.
Check out my blog Young Politics for more on (American) politics!
But, I don't get how the audio was picked up from his car. Did a "journalist" plant a wireless mic on him?
The United States aspires to democracy, but no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power.
It was a campaign stop so he was wearing a mic. He forgot to take it off when he was in the car. And yes, they're wireless now.
British teabagger?
Is the frontrunner a teabagger, too? I know he's a surprise.
the polls are too close to call...and they are saying that because no one will get a majority, they will have a hung parliament
so they will need new elections
Parliament, that is.
If Labour and the Liberal Democrats have a combined Parliamentary majority, they could enter into a coalition government. They'd have to decide, though, who would be the Prime Minister. I'm just geeky enough to want to be a fly on the wall during those debates and negotiations!
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Clegg, the leader of the Lib-Dems, has already said publicly that he won't form a coalition government with Gordon Brown at the head of Labour.
It's unfortunate, because Brown is actually a decent man from fairly humble roots (he's the son of a Presbyterian minister), whereas both David Cameron & Clegg are extremely posh and wildly out of touch with ordinary voters.
In the end, I think Brown and New Labour are merely the latest victims of DLC-style "Third Way" politics & Tony Blair's misbegotten alliance with Bush.
Sooner or later most of those in power will hold someone below them in contempt. There is a certain arrogance that comes with power.
Maybe the next PM will be more careful with his words.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
she's bitchin about taxes and immigrants
so he calls her a bigot???? that is what she is
amazed that the pm of all of britain has to be concerned with community policing
I thought they were able to take criticism better there, you'd think it wouldn't tank his chances.
I absolutely agree. What did he say that would sink him? He called her exactly what she obviously is.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
...is that the Labour Party, post Tony Blair, are widely seen to have lost their connection to working class folks. Also, because of the UK's tax structure, Labour has chosen to raise existing fees & create new ones in order to offset the cost of the social safety net, rather than overtly raise taxes.
Even though Brown is not seen as an elitist in the same mold as Blair, Cameron & Clegg, he was the Chancellor of the Exchequer under Blair, so he is seen as partly to blame for the financial crisis as well as the taxes vs. fees choices that Labour has made.
The British National Party (BNP) have benefited from this disconnect recently by cloaking their racism & fascism in the guise of the far more popular anti-immigrant, European Union skepticism that the right-wing press is all too happy to engage in. I suspect that Brown, in his desire to push back against BNP-style propaganda, went too far in criticizing this woman.
Some "working class folks" have lost touch with reality. I hate it when the media fellates some myth of the willfully ignorant "working class folk" as hero. There are just as many sensible people who are middle to lower class, but the media focuses on these rot-brains.
that was a fascinating gaffe and exchange. he actually held his ground pretty well with the woman. but how is it that the mic was still hot when he got in the car, and how did it get fed to media? was it some sort of wireless mic that was live until the car pulled away? future pols may want to know.
I think it belonged to (surprise) Sky TV, owned by that Australian fascist ol' whatsisname.
Wireslss Mics don't quite work like that--the transmitter/receiver for your average wireless lavalier microphone is to big to be "snuck" onto a person. More than likely he'd been wired up for the interview, which was transmitting into Sky TV's mixer.
Technically I'm not sure if the audio director was SUPPOSED to cut off feed from that microphone, so I'd hazard a guess the director in the control room told him to keep it running once he thought there might be something interesting to hear. It's unusual that they left it running, and didn't cut back to the newsroom once Gordon got in the car. If you ever watch something like that on CNN, they're very good about cutting back to their newsroom so the pundits can start talking.
Honestly, I'd say something was going on that they were distracted in the control room, and couldn't cut back to the Anchors, heard Gordon talking, and decided to let it run. Just a very fortunate coincidence.
...Though, for the record, Sky TV is owned by News Corp, I think.
Pile of Shite. I'd be willing to bet it was on purpose, and if I were Brown, I'd never let those arseholes mic me again.
me-oww!
Here's an update:
http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/ID=1480401434
...in the US, for example the Tea Baggers, she sounded practically like the voice of reason.
It's impossible to defend a politician when they do something like this because the damage is done and no amount of explaining or understanding is going to undo it.
I was no fan of Blair, nor do I find Brown very palatable, but as in the US, when the choice is what it is, there is a lot of nose-holding in the voting booth (so to speak, since there are no more voting booths where I live) on election day, because voting for a Tory would be like voting for a Republican -- a non-option.
This year, if I were a Brit, I think I'd go with Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats. We can only hope that Brown's latest gaffe will not increase support for the Conservatives, but rather send lots of Labour voters over to the Liberal Democrats.
Seriously, what would your initial impression of someone whose first words to you are about immigrants, taxes and deficits be?
I suspect if you were British, you'd think they'd been mainlining the Daily Mail, Daily Express or The Sun - and if you were American that they'd been listening to a tad too much Rush and Glenn.
If you listen, he never uses the noun "bigot", but the adjective form "bigoted" - complaining about immigration when holding a passport yourself is a bigoted position to take, no argument. However the right-wing press are all using the noun form today - they've been foaming at the mouth for the last few weeks that Tory leader Cameron (more of a Bushie than a teabagger, in UK terms) hasn't been romping away with the result.
in 1993 the now current Swedish PM called the Swedish people "mentally handicapped" in his book "the sleeping people".
re: the bigoted woman:
Btw, extraordinarily dumb to say and ask "all these Eastern European people, where do they come from?"
This is just an honest expression of that contempt.
Such expressions concerning the Great Unwashed used to be limited to the exclusive drawing rooms of the Elite, musingly, over brandy and cigars. Rarely were they ever made public.
But now the peasants have technology, too. And they're finding out what their 'lords and masters' are doing. And saying.
Question Time in Parliament is going to get interesting...
I'm afraid that no matter if you give plebs the Internet, they're still a bunch of ignorant, self-interested plebs. Elites are the people with the ideas who get things done. People with nothing to contribute other than populist anti-immigrant sentiment have no business being given an audience or a say.
who do they think they are? Members of society or something. They should just sit down and STFU.
*Snark off*
They are a member of the community (even if a pleb) and have every right to voice their concerns. Maybe bowing down to a bunch of pompous fu(ks just isn't most peoples style. Especially when the pompous pukes are suppose to be representing you (or at least courting your vote).
to be fair the lady was a bigot
Yes, I get that he's a politician but did this story really warrant Brian Williams making it his second story last night.?
Give me a break; such a bunch of Yentas in the media; like little gossiping kids...
Wait a minute, what site am I on again? How is it a "gaffe" in the least to call a bigot a bigot? Politicians should not be servile toadies; the lack of honesty in politics is why it's been so thoroughly removed from the purview and control of those of us in the US. If a woman is going to imply that Eastern Europeans are subhuman, she deserves to be called on it.
Why is C&L playing into the Murdoch spin of this issue? I thought this was a definitively left-wing site.
I was wondering that.
I can only assume that the person who posted this had not actually listened to what the lady said, and just posted what he'd read somewhere. It's rare that a post here annoys me so much.
I'm British. A Liberal Democrat with not much love for Labour, but far less for the Conservatives.
Murdoch's Sky News had no business broadcasting a private conversation with an aide. As the aide had no idea he was being recorded, it is in fact illegal, not that anyone has been willing to point that out in the media here.
I have no problem at all with Brown calling what she said bigoted. And of course he didn't say it to her face. He'd have been crucified, just like he is now.
So far as most media here is concerned she's just a sweet little old lady who doesn't like all them foreign students, and Brown is a terrible monster.
see here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-bigot-gaffe
Every mic is live, every camera is on.
There safe place is in your bathroom with the door closed and the shower running. You can then talk to yourself, and as long as you trust yourself not to leak (pun) what you said will not be on the intertubes in 10 minutes.
Though Gordon Brown's reaction is curious, to say the least.
That being said, I am unsure if that's an example of a "self-destruct." Then again, the British, generally speaking, have a way of talking that is so understated that to the American ear it might not sound like such a big deal, though to those accustomed to hearing it it might indeed be a major scandal.
Crooks and Liars is quoting The Torygraph? You'd scarcely believe it. Why not go whole hog and quote The Sun instead. Or that other Murdoch organ closer to home.
i found it pretty interesting nobody mentioned what really stuck out to me: she complains about the inability or impediments to access to gov't programmes and tax credits for herself, her children and grandchildren. she offers up her analysis of a broken system: one that allows easy access to eastern european immigrants who don't need the services while britons who really need the services are finding themselves ineligible.
she lets him know what her priorities have been since she was child: education, health service and help for the vulnerable - all things that are always the biggest line items in any modern country's annual budget. brown explains at the end that he shares the same three spending priorities.
BUT she also wants to know how he's going to get Britain out of "all this debt"?
wtf, lady? he certainly isn't going to get the country out of debt just by kicking the eastern europeans off the dole, and he certainly won't be doing it in a hurry while continuing to fund education, health care and welfare at the levels necessary to keep the effects of the recession from causing huge increases in crime, or even a popular revolution possibly.
we can always do better, and voters should always stay vigilant between elections if they have serious concerns, but i'm not naive about what gov'ts can do in terms of the tax rate they can set in the face of pressure from the right, or about the level of services they can cut in the face of pressure from the left. this whole something-for-nothing attitude about taxes and services is really starting to get tiresome.
Let's get this straight - the Eastern Europeans in the UK by and large aren't on the dole. Most of them are working bloody hard manual jobs for wages that wouldn't support a family in the UK. It's the employers using them as a cheap labour pool who are in the wrong here, much the same as it is with non-naturalised Latinos Stateside.
But the right-wing press have always found it easier to blame the exploited rather than the exploiters, so not much changes there.
Just watched the whole exchange. I agree. Brown is toast. That is as bad as it gets. If Labour does end up getting creamed, we can point to this exchange as an important contributor.
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