GM's phony loan repayment
If you're like me you're more than a little sick of GM's Ed Whitacre tv ad. So are more than a few U.S. Senators and lawmakers. From Fox:
General Motors has been running ads on all the major networks claiming the company repaid its $6.7 billion U.S. government loan "with interest five years ahead of the original schedule." General Motors Company CEO Ed Whitacre can be seen in the ad walking through an auto plant as he touts the company's progress.
But lawmakers, and even the inspector general for the bailout fund GM borrowed from, point out that General Motors only repaid the bailout money by dipping into a separate pot of bailout money. They say the company did not actually use its own earnings to make the early payment and are questioning why executives are making such a big deal out of it.
The workings of the bailout and what is actually being repaid and how are complex but simplified basically GM is repaying their "loan" with other money from the government, not from any actual earnings.
The $6.7 billion is also just a fraction of the $52 billion General Motors received in government aid. Grassley said lawmakers are being told government losses on GM are expected to exceed $30 billion.
The TARP inspector general, Neil Barofsky, bluntly told the Senate Finance Committee during a hearing last week that the repayment "is just other TARP money" and lawmakers should not "exaggerate" the feat.
"It sounds like they're kind of like taking money out of one pocket and putting it in the other to do that," Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del., said at the hearing.
And of GM’s Vice Chairman Stephen Girsky:
General Motors admits that the company is repaying the loan with other government money, but says a year ago "nobody thought we'd be able to pay this back."
Gee, that's really reassuring.
Here's Ed Whitacre's complete ad, somewhat ironically titled "Trust":
They didn't repay the loan, they used more government handouts to pay back the one with interest. They don't give a shit about making GM a company anyone can be proud of except the executives getting bonuses. They aren't putting people back to work, they are overworking the people they kept to save on expenses. They never made the best cars or trucks in the world and they have no intention of starting to do so now. Their warranty is a complete piece of shit and it does nothing to improve or guarantee quality. And lastly, the new GM is the same heap of steaming excrement as the old GM. One minute of continuous lies. That's what we expect from GM.
"They aren't putting people back to work,"
This was a line in the commercial that got to me. Notice he said "people", not Americans. They continue to export jobs.
I'm sure there are a thousand lies in his spiel and the employees vomit when they watch this commercial.
"Our goal is to exceed every expectation you have..." what a crock commercial.
I mean really even I didn't think anyone would have that much gall. I thought the Bushrangers were blatant lies but these guys are in a league of their own. They've got more front than Woolworths.
Hey anyone on this site willing to give credit where credit is due? Glen Beck slammed this phony baloney "pay-back" on his show yesterday. I know all things Beck-ian are usually loathesome to the partisans who frequent this site, but even the devil has to get his due once in while, no?
Anyone able to man up and say yes??
Kudos Glen. I have heard him right on a couple of other points as well, but he hardly has America's best interests at heart when he puts together his show.
Amen to that curtilingus. These gas bags only have their own interests at heart.
There's an old adage about a broken clock being right twice a day ...
Blind squirrels...
you've been had, by sox dude, who was tricked by the village idiot, glenn beck.
me-oww!
No miss kitty I wasn't duped. I don't watch Glam Beck clips or his show. And I roundly criticized everything the guy stands for in the same breath in my above comment.
Miss Kitty, shame on you. Even Mussolini got credit for making the trains run on time. Try and make room in your heart even for village idiots.
and it's the VIs who are destroying this country. and they're being VIs willfully, on purpose. To enrich themselves.
No pity for these assholes, no credit, no room in any organ of my body for these bloviating POSs.
me-oww!
Actually train service probably got worse under Fascism AFAIK there is only one unsupported partisan witness than says they ran on time.
fuck glen beck. He had no idea. He just slammed it because it was something that was making Not-His-Side look good.
I'll give him kudos when he leaves the air. Not until then, though.
BTW, Yesterday? This has been floating around in wingerland for several days now. Like I said fuck him. Hows about you manning up and admit he's a phoney baloney charleton who fooled you into thinking he was on the ball?
me-oww!
Miss Kitty, even Beck manages to offend people without throwing our gratuitous F bombs.
As for Not-His-Side looking good, how do you figure when even left wing media/blogs such as C%L is slamming the whole charade. BO cannot be hearting this shameless self promotion with all the truth breaking out in its wake. It far from makes the left look good.
As for leaving the air, I'll buy the first drink. Deal?
... even a broken koo koo clock is right twice a day.
But, it seems to me, like any other skilled propagandist, he does, every now and then, truthfully report a fact. It isn't a reason to trust, because it isn't a behavior that can be relied upon. It's only done to enhance an agenda of manipulation, and is useful to the propagandist only because the fact just happens to coincide with whatever the manipulative plan-of-the-day is currently being worked.
Face it, Sox, Beck and his employer are in the business of crafting lies in order to manipulate people into accepting an idea or a premise or a paradigm that could never be accepted or adopted using truthful and reasoned facts and arguments. They are willing to use, and routinely do use, every tool in the propagandist's bag of tricks.
Regardless their oft-repeated and self-serving slogans, FOX (among others) is not in the business of providing an unbiased and truthful presntation of information in a way that allows their audience to make its own reasoned and accurate assessments of reality. If you can't see that, that's not the fault of any C&L commentor, and if people can in general tell the differnce between a liar and a truth speaker, or between a journalist and a propagandist, that doesn't make the person who discerns the difference a "partisan".
Credit to you Paul. 10/10
Bernie Madoff is going to prison the rest of his life for his similar feat with $70 Billion. Tom Petters is going to go to prison for a scam of $6 Billion. Boy, this one needs to be prosecuted. This isn't a limited pool of investors that were wronged, but an entire countries taxpayer base.
It's pretty damn close. Only in this case there is only a single duped investor.
So glad not to be an American taxpayer right now. Seriously, I don't love my government but at least it's not bailing out Holden with far too much money it doesn't have.
Only a small part of the Bail Out funds were a loan. More than $43 Billion was used to purchase 61% of GM's stock.
Donaldd
Why don't you fuck off....what about the GREAT fucking job Toyota is doing,every shitting day they are having some other vehicle having some new problem, but according to a genious like you evidently foreign/imports/Japanese autos are BETTER than GM. It is ignorant thinking and un-American people that have bought Japanese products THAT SPELLED the almost demise of the American Automotive Industry....I foretold this happening since the 1970's,and said it would take 2-3 decades for it to happen...but look what happened...every asshole that owns/drives foreigh cares in america deserve to have their ass kicked for causing this to happen...you should be real proud.
If your "All-American" car manufacturers had had the foresight to change their product mix back in the '70s, at the height of the gas crisis, maybe they wouldn't be begging for handouts to keep from disappearing. It was their choice to continue making gas-guzzlers when the winds of change across the globe were heralding the rise of fuel economy as a major selling point; then, because profits were more important, they shipped most of the jobs overseas.
I drive a Ford, my wife drives a Prius...where do we fall in your pantheon of assholes? I didn't cause this to happen, nor did my wife. We bought the product that suited us...a la the "Free market". Which, if you had bothered to pay attention the past 2-3 decades, has been the mantra of the Right, unless their precious business is on the verge of bankruptcy...then it's "corporate welfare to the rescue", and damn the consumer for NOT buying a POS product to prop them up.
GM is not "TBTF"...no company is. If they can't hack it in the marketplace, then they deserve to fall down and disappear like all the other auto manufacturers have: Diamond T, White, Studebaker, et al.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" - Red Green
Freedom Ain't Free - Pay Your Share
Which of your two cars has more cup-holders?
Read the posts down thread by Peter and Phillip. Yeah, using your way of thinking letting them fail like Diamond T, White, Studebaker,REO,nash, Kaiser,etc... is very progressive thinking, seems like something very re-gressive, which is how Republicans...think. As for FORD, what about Henry Fords ties to the Nazis, Mitsubishi, they made the Zero fighter plane that shot down our guys in WWII. Thats how i feel about your choice of autos,just my opinion, just as it is yours to drive them,but that is neither here nor there concerning GM!
You know how much weight I give your opinion? Not even a gnat's ass, that's how much. I know all about Henry and his Nazi fixation...if you want to carry a grudge that long, go for it. But I don't see Henry building anything these days, sunshine.
As I said above, STFU. Next time you want to spew about how nobody buys American anymore, take it elsewhere...'cuz if you haven't looked around lately, there ain't nothing "Made in America" these days. Corporate America made sure of that. You got a beef about that, take it up with management.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" - Red Green
Freedom Ain't Free - Pay Your Share
OH BEE WAN FUNOBEE you are wise and obviously had the force so much sooner than the rest of us. Be kind to the dirty unwashed among us who failed to hoist you up to such lofty standards as you so obviously deserved. You see all and know all, you are OZ!
You're a dufus. Toyota's admittedly stupid handling of a very minor problem hardly detracts from the fact that their cars are about a zillion percent better made than anything GM craps out. "Buying American" isn't how you make companies strong - that's backwards. When GM makes something worth a damn, I'll WANT to buy American. THAT's how they get strong. But they don't, so I don't.
So Disgusted - in your anti-Toyota rant, did you decide to skip the inconvenient fact that almost all other manufacturers have also had unintended acceleration problems?
Independent engineers have confirmed that the acceleration problems stem from an electronic throttle part sourced in China and used by most major auto makers.
Or were you talking about the braking problems? Maybe you missed the news that other hybrid cars had braking problems although the problems were less reported and covered.
Every manufacturer has problems at times. Toyota got a lot of coverage, but considering how many cars they have on the road, maybe the problem is being too popular, and not just having manufacturing problems. Given that some of the problems Toyota cars had also occurred in GM cars, I think we're just seeing that the free-market has made a decision that buying Toyota cars is the better choice. When you were predicting the demise of the US automotive industry, did you do that because you could see in the 70s that American cars were inferior, or were you just predicting that non-American vehicles would improve in quality faster than American vehicles?
Not sure who or what you are railing against, but it certainly shouldn't be the people who exercised their free market choice and bought a cheaper superior product.
If you want to rant and moan about something, why don't you start with the company that made the EV1 (Volt) and then because it had such outstanding support from it's test market, they pulled the line and disassembled every last model. They even told people who were willing to pay them cash for the car, NO.
I loved my North American made Saturn. It was great value for the money and drove like a dream. I would buy more of them, but GM decided that was too good a product to be associated with their name.
If you want to kick someone's ass, why don't you start with the board members of GM? They destroyed the American car market by alienating their client base. Maybe blaming the people who created the problem is too complex for you.
Toyotas are safe, if you doubt me look up any list of safe cars by independent experts. The fact that they seemingly have specific safety problems (and last time this type of "problem" was investigated it turned out to be driver error) doesn't mean they're not safer than the junk your firm turned out. As for people being "unpatriotic" for buying your competitors it's a car purchase, not a war. If you can't make something people prefer don't pretend to be serving your country. But keep blaming everyone but the losers who ran your company into the ground. I just hope the executives kiss you next time before they fuck you.
knuckle dragging cave ape. Where'd they get this Neanderthal at, the Tobey Keith ho-down in Podunk, Oklahoma, working on a tractor?
General Motors admits that the company is repaying the loan with other government money, but says a year ago "nobody thought we'd be able to pay this back."
That's a pretty fucking funny statement. When I do something like that it's called a balance transfer. Pay off my Visa using my Discover card. Then I get charged 3% on the transfer amount.
is intended to be a factual statement
Get the Uncle Suger credit card. Zero transaction fees, in fact debts transferred onto this card can actually be reduced! No need to prove ability to repay, just present a credible* business plan and we'll give you a limit you won't believe. Ask about our free slandering your competitors service. Offer available only to politically connected rich people, may contain traces of economic ignorance.
* To your political lobbyist.
Wow, just wow. No wonder people are cynical, you can't trust anybody.
is that GM repaid ALL of their loan money and 5 years ahead of schedule. It definitely wasn't 50 billion dollars.
Instead of using the words "pay back" they should be using the words "give back".
Yup , that's a good way to gain credibility and trust . Talk about shooting yourself in the foot .
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/congratulati...
How about some consistency.
That's just what I was thinking. Wasn't C&L just touting GM's payback?
Different authors and opinions. Karoli's articles are usually quite good. Good of C&L to be quick with the counter story.
Thanks scarce.
It can be hard to sift through the minutia and actually get to the truth. It is nice to see that C&L has enough people on staff, and enough eyes and ears open to the world, that there is some self-correction. It is a fear of the MSM (and some media professors) that blogging lacks editorial/expert oversight. One of the reasons I like this blog is that it has enough disparate voices that you normally see at least 2-3 stories that are related to one topic. Often more.
Thanks for the perspective.
It is important to shoot down the false stories of economic recovery.
Remember, they (Paulson, Bernanke) said everything was A OK before the crisis.
Give C&L credit for even reporting the news (via a Conservative source).
I'm not about to criticize them for not being prescient.
* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.
then they should still be saying "well done you, GM." that's a total non sequitur the way you're using it.
Actually this is consistent. They printed it when it looked on way, now they're printing it when it looks another, and taking stupid "How about some consistency" comments from people who don't realise not hiding the new development IS consistent here, member-for-less-than half-an-hour.
me-oww!
I didn't realize you could determine how long a susbscriber has been one..lol good catch.
If they used borrowed government money to repay money borrowed from the government, aren't they still in debt to the government?
On the $50B, most of that is in stock purchased by the government. The only way for GM to recoup it is to buy it back, but I give them a pass on that "technicality" because... unlike with the bailout... the government got something in return for their money... a stock that can potentially go up.
* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.
I knew it was fishy when I first heard it on the news.
When I saw this commercial last night, I knew he was at least lying about putting people back to work. And the part about exceeding every expectation the customer has. And about every employee being responsible for quality control. Well shit it sounded as if he was lying throughout the commercial.
Best place to spot a lying CEO? From the factory floor.
that Dodge crook, Lee Iococca who went on bragging about great he was for 20 years.
Not good of course but better. They made actual profits for a while.
You want to know why the Teabaggers are going to gain control of Congress next electoral season? Because Liberals are awesome at kicking a gift horse in the teeth. GM is spending millions promoting, what is essentially, the success of the Democratic party's attempts to revive the U.S. Economy after the disaster of the Bush presidency and here we are pissing on the effort. I'm pretty sick of Left wingers who can never be happy with anything less than 100%, who can't think strategically but only in absolutes. I hope you're happy when Sarah Palin is president, because that's where you're leading us. Funny thing is: you probably will be happier when Palin is president, because then you'll have that much more cause to bitch and whine.
Pretty bogus comment divad. You'd rather be lied into the next economic catastrophe instead of letting journalists expose the truth?
As usual, everything isn't quite that black and white.
I'm sure GM is doing better than if they would have had to go through bankruptcy -- it's more of a PR move on their part to promote themselves in a positive light. They haven't had much positive press.
If we want to go into "total pointless waste of money", I think the TARP and fed banking bailout was a far larger crock of crap.... and yet still zero convictions on that.
I think GM's far more heinous crime was pushing crappy SUVs in an era of ever increasing gas prices and oil dependence, rather than focusing on smaller vehicles and more efficient technologies, even after the market showed otherwise.
didn't support the success of the Democratic government we elected.
We do.
What we don't support is the continuous piece-of-shit motherfuckers in suits who lie to us from the corporate floor as if they did something grand when they didn't.
It's a reason to say "fuck off" and buy from a competitor, say Ford, who didn't take government cash in the latest giveaway of our money or from a foreign automaker who is producing goods of quality.
The issues you note are two separate things and while both are important, to lump them together as a badge of dishonor for those on the left should they happen to criticize one or both is disingenuous at best.
what you are advocating is the same kind of cognitive dissonance that the reich-wing practices. Sorry, but no solipsism for me, thank you very much. They can take their dishonest commercial, and their unsustainable business practice and wholesale criminal theft and shove it. The corporate oligarchs who are robbing us (and future generations) blind can run all the commercials they want. Even if they make Obama look the second coming, I don't care. Believing the hype is precisely why we are in a global mess now. Thank heavens that these liberals kick that gift horse in the mouth. Don't you know that the gift horse will eat us out of house and home, enslave us, steal from us and our children, and then burn down the family farm and take off to Tahiti when we call them on their shit? Oh wait, it already has... we're at the "torch the family farm and make a cool get away" stage now, I forgot... This commercial is just their way of us telling us to bust out some marshmallows and enjoy the fire while they fiddle away...
Henny Penny and Foxy Loxie....Chicken Little;"THE SKY IS FALLING,THE SKY IS FALLING"
Because of inept management and a rubber stamp board that cared only about short term profits instead of investing in their future and paying attention to what the public wanted.
Bob Lutz is a perfect example of GM's myopia, calling global warming "bullshit" and hybrid cars a "fraud." Sure they were Bob---as Toyota and Honda killed you in the marketplace by giving the public what they wanted instead of some gas guzzling ego statement barge that you made more money on. Great work, genius.
And good luck whth the Chevy Volt---great technology in an overpriced package just like the 1958 Eldorado Brougham. The Honda Insight will find a lot more buyers because it's half the price. Where's your clean diesel passenger cars Bob? Don't have one because the diesel you can use is mothballed for the US market? Brilliant.
So disgusted, spare us your flamethrower outrage, these people got exactly what they deserved.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
that sounds like the handle of a true Latte sipping Liberal that the Right so often maligns. If you do infact drive BMW's what in that gives you any credance to judge any GM product much less their business practices.Flamethrower outrage, no, more of the garden variety, I am not as hoity toity as that, never even tried bree or any of the finer things in life that you evidently enjoy with your holier than though rage at GM, a company you evidently don't even patronize.
I have owned about 15 GM products over 30 years, you condescending jughead. They have ranged from beaters like a 74 Toronado to an 87 Corvette with a 59 Cadillac Fleetwood thrown in for good measure.
I drive a 24 year old Mercedes Benz diesel 300 SDL because they last forever and get 30 MPG. Not bad for a 4600 lb car with 249,000 miles on it. And I can burn 100% bio in it too. The only US diesel vehicle GM had was the 1980-84 Cad's and Olds---an epic and laughable failure. I know. I owned one.
I used to think GM products were the cutting edge of the auto world. The only thing that is cutting edge with them anymore is the C-6 Corvette and Cadillac. The rest---how mediocre and forgettible.
And BTW, I hate lattes. I'll take black coffee or espresso anytime. And try upgrading your mediocre existence by shutting your judgmental mouth and having something redemptive to say.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
Do you own GM stock or what? I know what your real name is: "Disgusted with Liberals."
It sounds like he does own GM stock and if that's true he's going to have a hard time for the foreseeable future.
Take a Tylenol.
Take more than a tylenol, what have ya got to offer!!!Pretty brusque, coming from someone who goes by Can of Whip Ass,which is how it is actually written!
go away.
to produce and broadcast this ad??
As soon as a see a commercial where a company is patting itself on the back instead of selling the merits of their product, I tune out. It is an exercise in branding and branding, when it really comes down to it, is a lie.
as they are patting them selves on the back, thay are simply trying to say...Look here we are good for it,we are paying the money back...to shut up detractors and those who seem to think that government has taken over the american auto industry...those t-baggers that call them, Government Motors, and act like fucking Obama is sitting behind a desk somewhere in Detroit, dictating what color a Malibu should be ,and whether or not to put wide white walls on a Buick, give me a fucking break.
been given innumerable "breaks" and continue to learn nothing. Given your propensity to adhere to the silly mantra "Say it enough times and it'll stick", we can expect to hear you again and again and again. Ad nauseum.
We're waiting.........
They led the world with the EV1 and now they still cannot give us an electric car over 10 years later
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=14056...
No one else can produce a practical electric vehicle that isn't much more than a grocery getter on nice sunny days either.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
EXACTLY!!!
I think. This 30 billion dollar loss is every bit as mythical as the loan repayment. The governments who now hold equity in GM stand to make a substantial profit if GM does well. And that appears to be exactly what is happening. The fact that they are able to retire any debt is good news. It means they aren't hemorrhaging cash.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Why mis-represent the loan repayment peter? Also, did the partial repayment come from profits, or from additional government funding as the article explained?
I still don't think we are looking at a solvent company.
Also with 70% government ownership, shouldn't their accounting books be open? Or would that put them at a competitive disadvantage against Chrysler, also a recipient of bailout money?
is more an accounting maneuver than anything else. The whole thing is about restoring confidence in the buying public that GM has a future. I believe it does. I also believe it was a good long term investment by the governments involved for the sake of the auto workers and all the suppliers whose jobs depend on those industries. Technically it is not a mis-representation since loans were actually repaid. The TARP money used to do so represents money from shareholder's equity. That's us, of course, but it still means that GM had the cash flow to do it and that is good news no matter how anyone spins it.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Gotta do it again: EXACTLY!!
I am not sure what exactly this post is complaining about? What was the alternative? To let GM get liquidated. That would have put millions upon millions more out of work and would have resulted in the loss of a major part of the industrial base of this country and further killed this economy.
It is actually good news that GM is paying back its loan 5 years ahead of time. Do you disagree?
As for the equity that the U.S. government owns, that is not a surprise. That was what was worked out in the bankrupcy plan. The whole idea of the reorganization was to decrease the amount of debt the company had, so it could not have been all debt. Nothing wrong with the U.S. government taking a big equity stake. That was smart. The Canadian government did it too. And the unions traded some of their pension liabilities for equity.
See this article to add a little more to your fairly superficial post.
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB126961735...
Analysts put a $73 billion to $85 billion equity value on the company. So the 60% that GM owns could be worth as much at $44 billion to $51 billion. So at current valuations that says that out of the $42.8 billion the government put in as equity, there is a good chance they will make a lot of money, both from the loan and the equity. If GM does even better than what people are currently thinking, they the govt stands to make even more money. The government could easily make $10 billion on the equity position.
So again what exactly are you complaining about? The government made the very smart move to save millions of jobs, keep an important part of the industrial base of this country intact and will likely eventually make a lot of money for doing it. Smart move by Obama and the adminstration. The alternative would have been a disaster.
GM claimed they were "paying back" all the money loaned them, and doing it early, when, in fact, they were simply taking other loaned money and using that to pay off the first debt. Sorta like you getting a payday loan to pay off last week's payday loan...you're using the loan organization's own money to pay off your debt.
If they had done this with any of their profit monies, this would have been a success story; as it is, it's just another example of corporate America fleecing the general public and asking for a pat on the back for doing so.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" - Red Green
Freedom Ain't Free - Pay Your Share
GM did 100% pay back all the money that was loaned to them. That was about $6.7 billion. It is irrelevant what money they used to pay back the loan. The simple fact is the govt got $6.7 bn back. The rest of the money the govt put into GM was in the form of an equity investment, not debt or a loan. That equity invest is currently likely worth about $10 billion more than what they put in (see current equity valuations from the link above). Nice potential profit for the govt once they sell or IPO their equity ownership. SO WHAT WHO YOU CALL SUNSHINE. IDIOT!
Next time you borrow money to buy a GM car, borrow 5000.00 more than it's worth to pay the first year's payments. Why, at least the bank got their money back!
GM should have honestly disclosed that they gave back bailout related money instead of implying they used net earnings. There is a huge difference in these concepts, sunshine, and it also appears that integrity and disclosure isn't GM's strength either.
And if you are a VC lending money---getting a satisfactory return on your investment is the goal, and it doesn't matter if the government puts up the $ or private business. Nothing comes free, buster.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
What you get for hiring christians
Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
A woman found an appliance on sale for half price. It cost $600 and was usually $1200. She said to her husband that as she saved $600 and that is what it cost, she got it for free. Then she asked him what he wanted to spend the $600 she saved on. Smoke and mirrors, yet again.
GM is just postponing it's inevitable demise. Or it's setting itself up for an even bigger failure. And it's all about the retirees. Somehow GM wants to avoid the situations the poor steelworkers had when their pensions and retirements were dumped.
Thanks again, Ronnie. I wish we could put on your tombstone a list of all the great companies that have died because of you. But the list would be so long that i wouldn't want a monument so large built for you.
...iirc, a very big part of GM's debt that sent them out looking for a loan had to do with the fact that in the last UAW contract the union agreed to take on the burden of retiree bennies, but only if GM kicked in a one time lump sum.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Sounds more like a 'payday loan.'
Since before 2000 but it really kicked into gear with the appointment by the supremes of the bush/chenny cabal everyone thinks it OK to just make up whoppers and tell them. They know republicans will never spend the time to find out if what they are saying is correct or not. They are the ones that get them in office so they don't give a shit if anyone else knows they are lying or not!
This is just like the repo 105 crap. Hide lie obfiscate but never tell the truth. A republican would walk 20 miles to tell you a lie.
They're just using one credit card to pay off another and stupid enough to think they've done something, while being dishonest and unethical enough to wage a public deception campaign to toot their own delusions to the public. To me, that's fraud.
You know the ones that took an estimated 76% haircut to keep the company going? No? Then maybe they shouldn't be boasting about how they've paid off so much debt despite not making a single dollar of profit since the bailout.
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