Alan Grayson vs. Paul Broun: A battle of wits with an unarmed man
You might expect a man who graduated from Harvard Law School with honors, and was later a law clerk in the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals (1984-85) under Robert Bork, Ruth Ginsburg, and Antonin Scalia to know his stuff concerning the Constitution. And with that kind of background you might also reasonably assume such a man would not suffer fools gladly when presented with an alternate view of reality on U.S. Constitutional matters. Grayson uses the words of William Rehnquist and James Madison to destroy a rather hapless Paul Broun.
This is Rep. Alan Grayson and Rep. Paul Broun discussing a bill to deny funds to one specific named organization in a Science and Technology markup. Such a bill is known as 'a bill of attainder'.
h/t Ministry of Truth for the transcript
Chairman: "Mr. Grayson is recognized."
Grayson: "Thank you. I'd like to ask the gentleman from Georgia a few questions, and I'll yield to him for the purpose of having answers to these questions. Um, does the gentleman from Georgia know what a Bill of Attainder is?"
Broun (R-GA) "A bill of, the answer's yes, in fact it's been very explicitly described by the courts."
Grayson: "What is it?"
Looooooooooooooong pause while Broun looks through notes for an answer
Broun: "The courts have applied a two-pronged test. Number one, whether specific individuals or entities are affected by the statute, Number two, when the legislation affects a quote "punishment" end quote, on those individuals, it serves no legitimate regulatory purpose. "
Grayson: "What, um, does the Constitution says about Bills of Attainder?"
Broun: "Oh, I suggest that this is not a Bill of Attainder. It's, um, certainly does focus on a specific entity, but it does not inflict punishment by any means. In fact. . . "
Grayson: "Will the gentleman from Georgia explain what the Constitution says about Bills of Attainder?"
Outside Voice/another Republican: "Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield for a second? The gentleman from Florida?"
Grayson: "No. I'd like an answer to my question."
Outside Voice/another Republican: "Well, frankly, I can't wait to see the discussion when it comes to . . . . "
Grayson: "I did NOT yield, and I'd like an answer from the gentleman from Georgia to my question, I. . ."
Chairman: "Li, Li, Listen, let's get back to all the time, is Mister, the gentleman from Florida, who will yield to the gentleman from Georgia, will . . ."
Grayson: "Right. What does the Constitution say about Bills of Attainder? It's a simple question."
Broun: "The Constitution says "Congress shall pass no Bills of Attainder" but this is not one . . . "
Grayson: "Alright, now, would you agree with me that it is Unconstitutional to single out one or more persons without the benefit of trial?"
Broun: "Uh, no sir, there is a two-pronged test, this is not a Bill of Attainder, it is . . . "
Grayson: "Alright, well, when I, when I said, I'll reclaim my time. I just quoted William Rehnquist writing the book "The Supreme Court", he wrote that book and said "You cannot single out one or more persons without the benefit of a trial." Will the gentleman agree that Bills of Attainder are contrary to every principle of sound legislation?"
Broun: "The two main criteria which courts would like to look, in order to determine whether legislation is a Bill of Attainder, one is whether a specific individual/entity is affected by extension, number two, whether the legislation affects a punishment to the individuals . . . "
Grayson: "Will the gentleman please tell me whether you agree or not that Bills of Attainder are contrary to every principle of sound legislation?"
Broun: "Bills of Attainder are Unconstitutional."
Grayson: "AND contrary to every principle of sound legislation, is that correct?"
Broun: "That's correct."
Grayson: "Alright. And you know who said that?"
Broun: "Tell me."
Grayson: "James Madison in the Federalist papers."
"Now, do you, does the gentleman agree that the Bill of Attainder clause was intended not as a narrow or technical provision, but rather as an implementation of the separation of powers, and a general safeguard against legislative exercise of the judicial function, or more simply, trial by legislation. Will the gentleman agree with me on that."
Outside Republican: "Will the Gentleman yield?"
Grayson: "No."
Laughter throughout the committee room , then silence. . .
Outside Representative: "Um, the, the, will the gentleman restate the question?"
Grayson: "The question is, will the gentleman from Georgia agree with me that the Bill of Attainder clause was intended not as a narrow or technical provision, but rather as an implementation of the separation of powers, and a general safeguard against legislative exercise of the judicial function, or more simply, trial by legislation. Will the gentleman agree to that?"
Broun: "No, sir, I will not, and I ask counsel to help us with this, I think all this is determination of the court and I'd like to appeal to Mr. Sensenberner (wingnut whose name I refuse to spell correctly)
Grayson: "Well, I'm sorry, but it's my time, not yours or Mr. Sensenberner's, so I will reclaim my time, and I will point out that what you just you would NOT agree to is from a Supreme Court case called the United States V Brown, something I would expect you might know about, given your name."
Outside voice: "Will the gentleman yield?"
Grayson: "No."
One voice laughs
Grayson: "Uh, listen, we, we are trampling on people's Constitutional rights. And I think it's unfortunate that the mania that exists on the other side of the aisle regarding this one organization, and we know why that mania exists, it's because they've registered an awful lot of Democrats, continues to distort and waste the time of this committee and many other committees here in Congress. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I yield my remaining 5 seconds"



like Alan Grayson!!
I hope my lame ass Congressman Peter Welch was there and actually paying attention for a once.
This is Katrina Walker, a former Republican voter who came in to the office last week to thank Alan Grayson for standing up for health care and for her family. The Alta corporation fired her mother...
Some stuff you can't make up!
to see that even recovering Republicans can recognize that which is really in their own best interests!
A Republican changes her mind when the issues suddenly affect HER. Wow, I'm shocked.
It's certainly a sad tale, but I'd have a lot more sympathy if she changed her affiliation based on concern for others, not just herself and her family.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
that you would jump to conclusions, because you see the word republican. Kind of biggoted, eh?
I failed to see where she said she stopped being a republican because of this issue. Did you see additional information that is unavailable to the rest of us?
.After all, the republicans are the ones who really want health care for all right? They're the ones pushing the public option. It's true. I heard it on Fux Nooz.
The point is , it took reality to slap her upside the head for her to get it. She doesn't like being like the common folk.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
is assuming that this girl stopped being republican, BECAUSE of the healthcare issue. She never said that so critizing her for ONLY changing after it affects her isn't necessarily true. It is JUMPING to conclusions. which is done her a lot.
You followed up, by jumping also. Too Bad.
At about the 2:50 mark she describes why she became a progressive and it had to do with a number of things and reasons.
So mabye a little slack on a young lady that is thinking and doing. maybe she has been wrong all of her life, I suspect she will effect more change in this one video that most people do their entire life.
A little slack for the converts - especially the cute ones with brains.
Old Dev never met a Repub intitiative he didn't like or a Democrat one that he didn't.
Same for my lame ass Rep... Doc Hastings.
to just move to his district...
suing corrupt defense contractors that robbed citizens...or so I was told.
and he is the only person I wanted to vote for last election, and couldn't. Instead I chose between crap and puke.
and I worked on his campaign in Orlando - and he's exactly the same in person.
He's a Keeper!!
Download the show here: http://archive.kpft.org/mp3/091005_190001monitor.MP3
The interview with Grayson starts at around 37 minutes in.
does it take to make ONE Liberal?
ONE PER ISSUE...........
This guy is ON FIRE!
Go Alan!
Eat them Alive!!!
pwned.
I think that we can all agree that Rep. Grayson just taught school in the House of Representatives. Would that the rest of the Democratic representatives were as sharp and had the balls to act this way.
But, not the Repubic reps. Let them remain as stupid as Rep. Broun.
It's really great to watch a surgeon at work.
Grayson yields to no one!
not even tweetie
Some stuff you can't make up!
should be a REQUIREMENT when running for public office.
It scares me to know just how FEW Congress Critters have no knowledge of the damned Constitution, since it basically lays out how the American Government is to be GOVERNED.
I totally agree with you. It seems that Constitutional ignorance runs rampant in our halls of government. You need a damn license to cut hair and any moron can be elected to represent Americans without the least bit of Constitutional knowledge.
but I once heard "A students work for B students, and C students name the buildings..."
"A" & "B" students teach law and "C" students get rich. Allow me to add that "D" student become politicians in DC.
become RethugliKKKants!
lawyer. Probably got his degree from a home study course.
I wonder who some of his more famous patients are . .
...a 'Michael Jackson DOC'....drug dealer to the rich.
Must be nice...."hey doc. I just stubbed my toe, rush a bottle of oxy-contin over STAT!"
Cue the Kabuki....
without a law degree? Does he have two doctorates? I have to go look.
*Can those that want the piece of legislation afford to pay me off?
Cue the Kabuki....
"You might expect a man who graduated from Harvard Law School with honors, and was later a law clerk in the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals (1984-85) under Robert Bork, Ruth Ginsburg, and Antonin Scalia to know his stuff concerning the Constitution. And with that kind of background you might also reasonably assume such a man would not suffer fools gladly when presented with an alternate view of reality on U.S. Constitutional matters. Grayson uses the words of William Rehnquist and James Madison to destroy a rather hapless Paul Broun." Or the internet is wrong. Major disconnect here.
My mistake. I misread the post. The above paragraph is about Grayson, not Broun.
that's how I read it... :)
I am going to get a Tootsie Pop.
[salivating]Dang, have you seen those Dunkin' Donuts ads recently with the autumn-colored sprinkles? I'm so glad there's no DD nearby![/salivating]
Edition All Chocolate Tootsie Pops are here. Grab them while you can.
Get thee behind me, Satannah43!
I have just one thing to say to you "KRISPY KREMES"!!!!
I read it as Broun also, but after watching the video I figured it was Grayson.
He's an MD.
doncha just hate it when we read too fast?
been there, done that... :)
This guy is great, wil you yeild, no. Will you yeild, no. LMAO
I yeild my remaining 5 seconds, sharp as a wip.
who was the guy trying to save broun? anyone know?
.
I kept hearing his name pop up
If you're curious to see what fathead Sensenbrenner said after this clip cuts out, his response is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fOdt8GFDmg
Basically, he whined that if the bill that specifically singles out ACORN is a bill of attainder, then a previous bill that singles out clawing back money from AIG executives is also a bill of attainder and Grayson voted for that bill. Grayson then retaliated by saying that unlike Sensenbrenner he didn't vote for a war in Iraq... It just degenerated into a pissing contest from then on.
But leave it to a Republican to draw a false equivalence between ACORN and AIG executives.
Thank you for sharing that. I am really wishing that I could get youtube to let me sign in because the person who posted the video said:
Bunch of crap, that needs a response.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
Now that was an old-fashioned, intellectual ass-whipping!!
Idiot from Georgia ought to lose his job for refusing to admit that the ban on Bills of Attainder is broad and that what is being proposed is unconstitutional. But he's from Georgi, so he'll probably win by a bigger margin than the last time.
I once had a friend who moved to Georgia. It took about 6 months for her conversation to begin inching toward racism. Eventually we stopped talking - I called her on the racism and she got mad and told me I didn't understand because I lived 'up north.' Yeah, that did it.
beginning with the slap of the chairman to recognize grayson, to the fluttering of Broun's staffers, etc.
Is Broun the one who is leading this charge, is that why he had to face the wrath of grayson?
big poster in front of all repugs and bluedawgs offices and rallys , photo ops etc.
Charge
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
"Wrath of Grayson!" - nice. I want a poster.
He is unwieldy, unyieldly too
Cue the Kabuki....
I want one too!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSowZmVunJw
"Untamed Media"
The great thing about Alan Grayson is that he does not let himself be led away from the point he is trying to make. I have watched him being interviewed time after time by the mainstream media and there have been many times that some jackass tries to sneak in a totally invalid question. Grayson just goes right back around to where he wants to be, consistantly leading the interview. There are many politicians out there that need to watch him in action and take notes.
Jeez, he is so brilliant and cool! I too loved it when he was asked, "Will the gentleman yield his time?" and he calmly but firmly replied, "No."
Grayson is what a Congresscreature should be.
is what a PRESIDENT should be. Start thinking about it.
.
I think Grayson would be better as Speaker. Then everyday he can teach the Repukes AND the weak a$$ Dems what it means to be an intelligent, effective, and strong representative of the people....
hmmmm. Does anyone remember a dem speaker with guts?
Sam Rayburn first, followed by Tip O'Neill, as the closest Dems come to a Speaker with guts.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
K*ll 'em all, let the voters sort 'em out...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
There's bringing a knife to a gunfight and then there's showing up unarmed with one hand tied behind your back at a gunfight.
Broun fits the latter category.
The guy doesn't have much going on upstairs.
I've never seen change without a fire
"Will the Gentleman yield?"
"No."
I love it. We need more Graysons to rise to the level.
I especially enjoyed watching the panic unfold behind him as he uh....uh......uh.......uh....'d to Grayson question. Whispered instructions from a staffer?.....tsk, tsk, tsk. lol. I almost felt bad for the guy.
Oh, and I wish it were kosher to insert the sound of crickets during that long, long pause.
Leaning on staffers wouldn't be so bad if they were actually good at being Broun's left and right hands. As is, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and the brain doesn't know the answer.
Can someone tell me just what the organization in question was, though?
Was it ACORN?
If BP can't destroy the environment with impunity, how can any of us be free?
this was the amendment to cut off fed funding for ACORN, Grayson makes reference to the fact that the group registers a lot of dems.
Grayson has balls of titanium. I can't think of too many dems willing to smack back on the demagouging of Acorn. This shows he isn't showboating, he is actually a progressive with a spine.
All you need to do is go to his youtube channel and watch all the videos. This guy has been like this from the very beginning. No battle is too small for his district. He fights tooth and nail for everything.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RepAlanGrayson?bl...
I wish we had more people like Mr. Grayson representing us. The more he gets noticed the better it is for "we the people."
Defending rapists, knee-capping community organizers.
to bring down THE COMMUNITY ORGANIZER these freaks do have a game plan.
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
did i just see a politician do what they are supposed to do?
So THATS what it looks like ...
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
That's an actual Statesman!
!
Alan Grayson needs to be president. Enough trying to make nice with Taliban-lite!
Thank You, Joe Wilson, Bachman, Fuax and others. You were the catalyst that lit this guys fire!
While that might be tempting, I want Alan Grayson right where he is, or maybe in the Senate, for a good long time. We've already got a President who can think, and now we need more Senators and Congresscritters who can do it, too!
are two very different things. Obama might be a great mind, but he is too f'ing nice to people who would stab in the face if they could.
Too Soon?
Let him be a statesman for the rest of us and, even take the reins from Pelosi.
Leave the presidency to the politicians.
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
I stand corrected!
Grayson voted for Bill of Attainder against AIG (video cuts off before he is smacked down himself for having done so). I think (not positive) that Obama killed that one due to constitutional question.
I agree with Grayson here that this shouldn't pass (I think it did, btw), but he's inconsistent and becoming a blowhard mirror image of Republican blowhards. A showman. I suppose fight fire with fire is one approach, but Obama wins over the long haul by "playing it cool".
Long live the echo chamber!
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH7bjIajc0A
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Are you a libertarian or a bone fide GOP'er?
Actually ... a registered Democrat who has never voted Republican.
Just am a fan of Obama and hoping not to see the Democrats become what we laugh at across the aisle.
Believe me, I'd get crucified over on a Fox comments board. But here, I am amongst friends.
to the entire transcript re AIG?
I'd post, but I think Savannah will get the wrong idea again and think I'm a fan of the Republican speaking ... ugh ... I aren't, I swear I aren't.
But here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fOdt8GFDmg
Go to about 2:05
I watched it and yeah, maybe Sensenbringer scored a tit for tat point, however, he goes too far talking about fiscal priorities. I mean, Iraq war v. ACORN? no contest and over all Grayson wins.
I'll go for tit.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
*
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
Yes, I agree ... fairly lame after his one hit. But Obama's style better for Democratic party in my opinion ... that's all I was saying.
you're one of those Democrats that thinks faux and MSNBC are equivalent.
I mean if you can equate AIG with Acorn and what Grayson is doing to what the republicants do...
We needed another FDR, instead we got another clinton.
in voting for the exact same type of unconstitutional move is NOT equating AIG with Acorn.
Is the echo chamber so damned loud you can't even hear a simple request for consistency over hypocrisy?
... but I appreciate at least one set of ears that saw the distinction.
I'm for single payer over public option ... let's just get to it and not mess around.
Soft cops need hard cops.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
... but I hope you're not on my police force.
police farce
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
and put Obama in the lead? Maybe some of the Bush Kool-Aid was left in the punchbowl. Grayson is doing exactly what he was elected for. Obama.... We are waiting to see him with spine or results.
is the republicans lie and say stupid ass things, Grayson tells the truth and makes sense. The style does not matter one iota, it is the substance only. He could scream it and it is still the truth.
are you having a chat with your self lol
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
I am not sure what happened, but my comments didn't fall correctly in the thread. Too many window open I think. I am getting old.
*
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
:(
46
you snotnose ,62
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
Thanks for the help up!
all you have to do is download this:
http://gop.science.house.gov/Media/hearings/f...
DATED 10/7/2009
Look at entry #4.
That punk Broun was trying to sneak THIS through AND GRAYSON KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS DOING...AND CALLED HIM ON IT.
4 Mr. Broun
(139)
Adds a new section at the end of the bill
stating that “[n]one of the funds made
available under this Act or the
amendments made by the Act” (1) may be
used for lobbying the legislative or
executive branches of the Federal, State,
or local governments; or (2) may be
awarded to any entity if that entity or any
employee has been charged by a
government agency with waste, fraud,
abuse of government funds, or any illegal
activities.
Read (2).....
Sound familiar?
Yep. It's all about ACORN.
And Grayson called him out.
And make Broun look the fool he is.
BTW, section (2) WAS WITHDRAWN.
NOTE TO REPUBLICANS:
Be careful who you mess with....
BRAVO!!!!!!
hear Der Beckster's Flyin Monkey crack investigative squad swinging into action from here...
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
Republican logic:
ACORN - $4 million a year to help old folks - BAD!
Bush bailing out the wealthy CEO's - $13 trillion - GOOD!
Grayson (quite correctly) points out that its unconstitutional to have a bill of attainder - ie, legislation that is designed to punish just one specific person or entity. The bill in question tries to get around naming ACORN (I believe it doesn't directly, but alludes to them pretty strongly) and basically prevent government monies going to firms that have broken the law.
The problem is that if the Repubs declare too strongly that this bill is to be interpreted broadly (therefore not singling out ACORN), then you could use the same bill to cut off Halliburton/KBR funding, as some of their subsidiaries have been convicted of breaking the law.
I'd love to see Grayson box them into a corner and make them explain how ACORN would be in violation of the new bill, while KBR somehow or other would not be covered.
Good boy!!
So you like him so much you're sentencing him to Doggy Hell?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdaMUtpbO7U&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSKqn6m3TLo&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Make mine a Grayson!
√
Amended: If you can, On November 2, 2010? congressmanwithguts
Study the symptoms not the virus...
I'm glad Grayson is on our side .
Rep Grayson could never be a Republican, because his main tools are facts and hard evidence and to a Republican these things are their kryptonite.
Grayson is a smart tough no bullshit ballbuster who anyone would want with them in a street fight.
I wish that he could replace Harry Reid yesterday.
Grayson is a smart tough no bullshit ballbuster who anyone would want with them in a street fight.
I wish that he could replace Harry Reid yesterday.
Rep Grayson is so right on the money and so unyielding (I had to throw that in there) that I bet when he is given time to ask questions the person in front of congress must have their heart just sink down to their feet.
I love it, these assholes kept trying to stifle Rep Grayson and he just keeps pressing forward. What more could you ask for in a Representative?
I just wanted to acknowledge Bork and Scalia for helping in the education of such a strong progressive voice in our congress. I NEVER thought I'd say anything very supportive to either one of these men, but in this case let me be the first to say,
"Thanks guys!"
"I yield my remaining 5 seconds."
Groucho couldn't have said it better. Grayson spent his Saturday mornings watching good old reruns of classic Marx Bros. movies.
He spanked that guy like he stole something, this was like the final courtroom scene in a law drama only better.
The conservatards are going to be targeting him big time now, good thing they're all poor marksmen.
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
it's really not that difficult to bitch slap the darkside and it should be done more often for the amusement of the electorate.
Does sarah palin bitch slap her darkside?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
My favorite politician!
I wish Grayson was my representative! but he's not :-(
Hope he doe doesn't push these guys so hard that he ends up "commiting suicide" if you know what I mean. I know the wealthy never want to part with their $$ and if Grayson is leading the charge to interrupt their gravy train I'm sure they'll have no problem with ending his lead. I hope he has some strong and loyal body guards!
LONG LIVE GRAYSON
Late,
QSE32
THIS is what a REAL trial lawyer sounds like. State your position, atack, attack, attack, and not give an inch. THIS is what separates the corporate paper pushers and tax geeks from the REAL attorneys. And Grayson scores again! Bravo!
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
He's not a slime-thrower, like right-wingers, his arguments are based in fact.
did this guy come from?! I love that fact that Grayson says what he means and refuses to let himself be intimidated!
If the rest of the dems would get on board maybe we could shut the stupid asshole up!
republicanism/conservatism is a mental illness!
Are there any smart morons?
And besides, those are two different levels of retardation
And retardation one can do little about, but these guys are willingly dense.
However, it's doubtful any educational and psychological experts use such terms anymore.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I still think that Obama is wrong not to put all the chimp’s administration in jail where they all should be, because of getting us in Iraq under lies. If you are found guilty you can not serve in the government. All those Ass hole who got us in this mess are now able to come back and steal the next election.
Want another time under those crooks!!!!!!!
What a wonderful new star in the House. I haven't seen this kind of trailblazing by a Democratic representative since Bruce Braley
For somebody who's only been on the job for nine months, he's made quite a name for himself.
That was a pleasure to watch!
I want to, once in my life, have a rep I can be proud of.
...and if only he could be on committees with every one of Georgia's - I'm from Georgia - Republican Congressmen. Then maybe some Georgia Democrats would realize that with a little intelligence, combined with a huge set of balls, you can kick a Repug's butt all over the room. Folks like Gingrey, Kingston, Westmoreland and Price...combined they do more harm to the Country that any other set of right-wing bastards in Washington.
...and Broun too, of course.
Rep. Grayson: "Do you know what a bill of attainder is?"
Former Gov. Palin: "No, I let Todd take care of paying the bills!"
This is how brilliant all democratic congressmen should be! What a star. Love him!
see how easy that is democrats. Challenge these morons and put them on the defensive. It seems like Rep Grayson is the only one that knows how to do it.
The only education Broun got being a law clerk was how to play under the mens robes.
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