Muslim Family Kicked Off Plane
By CSPANJunkie Saturday Jan 03, 2009 4:00pmJanuary 02, 2009 CNN
A Muslim family removed from a plane Thursday after passengers became concerned about their conversation about the "safest" place to sit says AirTran officials refused to re-book them, even after FBI investigators cleared them of wrongdoing.
All eight members of the Irfan family from Alexandria, Va., and a friend were kicked off an Orlando-bound AirTran Airways flight after two other passengers overheard what they thought was a "suspicious remark".
The remark involved one of the family's desire to sit in the "safest" seats.
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I read about this a couple of days ago on CNN, and they had an opinion poll with two questions: Did the Airline do the right thing kicking them off, and would they do the same to a white family?
The majority said yes the Airline did they right thing, and no they wouldn't do it to a white family. I thought that odd. It sounds like a call for profiling.
Why the hell would a terrorist worry about what seat is the safest?
Security policy in the country is getting dumber by the day.
If you're a terrorist, you don't worry about the safest seat. Normal Americans are worried about the plane crashing due to neglect and wonder where the best place to survive is if the mechanics guessed wrong.
It's more the details that are disturbing to me. I heard these on NPR. They paraded everyone from the plane past the family and held them up for disdain and embarrassment. Then, the FBI was very professional and determined that the family was not a threat pretty quickly. But THEN the airline still refused them passage, and they were booked on another airline. It took a while for the original airline to reverse their position and offer an apology and reimbursement. We are still an ignorant, racist country, despite great strides, and powerful people would have us remain ignorant and squabbling amongst ourselves.
you got it right.
it's hard to change individual's minds, but
it works for corporations......BOYCOTT THE BASTARDS!
"We are still an ignorant, racist country, despite great strides"
Thank you for stating this so plainly. Racism is racism, and racist, baldly discriminatory actions against south/southwest Asians (the only properly inclusive way to describe the people affected by the current insanity) speak just as badly of a society as the same directed against blacks. It's harder to see when you're talking about maybe 3% of the population instead of 12%, but it's just as ugly and wrong and it is born from the same evil.
The most racist thing about all of it is that there seems to be a general attitude that being racist against south Asians and middle easterners is "not really racist." Perhaps a distinction can be made based on a lower degree of assimilation ("more foreign") but that does even begin to excuse what has been going on. Especially since in many cases the victims of discrimination are QUITE assimilated and only a racist would consider them possible terrorists.
Silly internet poll folks say the airline was right? Well, then I'm sure they can find some examples of terrorists making their hijackings a family outing, and taking the wives and kids along to WAR. That strikes me as a very un-Islamic thing to do. God damn the more I think about this the more pissed I am.
Two members of that family are lawyers. Maybe we shall see a well-deserved lawsuit against AirTran in the near future.
if AirTran took their money, and TSA didn't directly issue a security concern, sounds like some pretty blatant defamation of character to me.
Listened to the same thing. At the very least, these innocent people should have been taken somewhere to be questioned out of the view of others. AT THE VERY LEAST. They were treated like criminals in front of other people for doing nothing. This is the atmosphere created by the right wing nuts.
The paranoid whacked out US border guards treat most Canadians like fucking criminals at the border these days. God forbid you got caught with half a joint back in the 70s. Its fuckin pathetic. I ,for one, dont even consider the US as a destination anymore and my participation in blogs,911 truth and such have probably amped up my unworthiness anyways. They can kiss my lily white ass and i take great pains to tell that to others considering a shakedown by some fat,bloated,ignorant, arrogant ,self absorbed ,Bubba guard at the US border.Believe me Bubba. YOUR NOT THAT FUCKIN SPECIAL ! I will miss Myrtle Beach though.Love the golf courses and the hospitality. Some forward thinking Caribbean country needs to build more golf courses and promote themselves as a alternative golf destination. It will bring in more Canucks for sure. Most i know are sick of the bullshit and hoops at US border.
It's not our fault that we're suspicious of arabs on planes. For crying out loud! It already happened four times! We should not feel guilty because we are at war with them and there are people here who look like them. so a few mistakes will be made. Nobody was killed or imprisoned. I think that, all in all, it was a pretty harmless situation. A big nothing.
A big nothing? To be made to feel like a criminal in front of others is nothing?
I hope this family slaps a big lawsuit on all parties responsible for their humiliation and defamation.
They were "made to feel like criminal" in front of people they don't even know. Yeah, it's harmless. Mistakes happen in a time of war. It's making a mountain out of a molehill.
Hey, I'm as liberal as one can get, but this feigned outrage over this incident is a little much. What if they had been connected to terrorists? A little caution is a good thing; especially if no harm is done.
They were let go and got a free ticket on another airline. The only harm is in the minds of people who love to sue over nothing.
Just another case of collateral damage, huh?
And there is nothing feigned about the outrage here.
And you, sir or madam are no liberal.
I didn't say collateral damage, you did. I said essentially, that sometimes things happen to people. You have to weigh them against everything else that is going on. Get some perspective on it. I know you feel that filing a lawsuit is proper for nearly everything that happens in life. Someone jumps in front of you in line, sue them. Someone does not use their turn signal, sue them.
Stuff happens and that's it. If the plane had been blown up, you would be asking why the airline was not more secure. They removed the people in question while the FBI figured out what was what. That's how it works.
They did not profile these people. There was an actual report from another passenger. The airline did not know how accurate it was. They just took steps to protect the rest of the passengers, as is required by law.
Why can't you see that?
And yes, I am a diehard liberal, with a sense of proportion and priority.
[Deleted. Once is teasing, twice is flame-baiting. Please keep it civil. Thank you. Site Monitor]
I've had this conversation (which is the safest seat on a plane) every single time I have flown (because I'm a fearful flyer). Not once have I been referred to the FBI, though I'm sure others overheard me--heck, I've even asked flight attendants! Of course, I'm white, so I guess that's as it should be--because we know white people never ever blow anything up.
What war? We're not officially at war with anyone; haven't declared war since WWII.
as Michael Savage!
Those kids looked REAL SCARY! Brrrrrrrrrrrr
That is LAME! So you will sit idly by while people's rights are being tromped all over, and everything's fine for you as long as nobody's killed? I'll bet you're with John Yoo on torture, also, as long as people aren't actually killed. On purpose. Accidentally, well, okay, they were undoubtedly terrorists or they wouldn't have been imprisoned...
You're another one who feels that it's ok to exaggerate my comments to make your point. No, I'm not in favor of torture. But you're going in the wrong direction. I'm talking about law suits, which many of the posters advocated.
This was not something to sue the airline over. They got a report from a passenger and were REQUIRED to do something about it. The airline did their job, and the people were not harmed. They were delayed. That's it. Jeez, you need to put things in perspective.
You want to sue people over every situation? At least pick the people who actually were negligent. The airline was not.
I suppose you want the airlines to keep everyone on the plane no matter what, because they might be offended if removed? I don't think you mean that, do you?
just fanatical right wingers making a stupid assumption!
First, they set it up so that these people were paraded past the entire flight like criminals. Then, they refused to to rebook them when the FBI deemed them to not be a threat. The apology and offer to fly them to their destination for free is a good start. However, apologies do not have to be accepted, and I don't blame a few of them for choosing to refuse the airline's apology.
who cry to high heavens when they get a wood splinter in their previous little pinkie finger...
We are at war with Muslim Americans? Wow, that's news to me.
You are not a liberal, you are a f*ckwit.
If you support a government that kills "arabs" then it is definitely your fault.
With THEM? With whom are you at war?
These are American Citizens. Are you at war with Virginia?
By the way, since you seem so ignorant, Islam came to the U.S. back in the day when slaves were brought in from Africa to work on plantations here.
Even if racists like you wanted to "ship" every Muslim back to "where they came from", you can't "ship" a concept, an idea. That's what religion is. You would LOVE to get rid of that 'nuisance', wouldn't you? Those Muslims.
There are more than 1.2 BILLION Muslims in the world, ten million of them are here in the U.S..
Are you at war with them too?
Even if these passengers were "terrorists", I highly doubt they would march on the plane with clothing that has been stereotyped in today's world, let alone discuss out loud safety issues.
Just a wild guess here, but I bet when God was handing out brains, you showed up with a fork instead of a spoon. Right?
I think the problem with what you're saying is not necessarily that it's wrong on the surface, but that it presupposes that A) "we are in a situation where war is justified" and B) "we are at war". And I find both of those ideas rather wrong.
It's amazing how those that disagree with me don't actually disagree with me. Their counters to what I'm saying have nothing to do with what I said! I never said that we are at war with Muslims. I never said that we are at war with Muslim Americans. I never said that war was justified. I never said that it was justified to kill "arabs". Obviously you folks are transferring your beliefs on to someone else.
We are in a war. Or maybe you don't know about it yet. There are two fronts; one in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. I hate them, too. But they're out there. You can deny them all you want, but this administration believes it and governs accordingly. Sure, they screwed everything up, but that does not change the reality of where we are.
If you actually read what I wrote, you'd see that all of this other stuff you've thrown in is on you, not me. I never said any of that crap.
I'm a realistic guy who believes that sometimes bad things happen to good people, but that a lawsuit is not always the answer every time someone is offended.
I've tried to keep it civil, but some "fuckwits" here ( to borrow your terminology) can't see their noses in front of their faces. They just want to spew venom every time they get a chance. You folks (who do that) are just idiots.
The fear factor continues to work wonders as well as stereotypes. The decent people were the ones kicked off the plane. The true Americans.
What whacked out quivering jellyfish passenger went to the authorities to complain about these people anyway? I guess I've known some people like that, scared to death of their own shadows and everybody else. They make me so mad, cause trouble everywhere they go!
I think a lawsuit should involve the tattler, too.
I smell a lawsuit. A big, juicy lawsuit.
I was on a flight to San Francisco once where a flaming queen was removed for fear he'd set the plane on fire.
Where a straight drunkard had to be tied down by the crew for harassing female passengers. Luckily, the flight only lasted an hour.
This story infuriated, saddened, and embarrassed me. If the girls who found these people so terrifying that it made them uncomfortable, it's the girls who should have left the plane.
Perhaps the incident could have been handled more poorly, but I doubt it.
I certainly hope that seatech1's comment was tongue in cheek. Of course sometimes there are incredibly stupid people here who sound like fools, so a few mistakes will be made.
I was making the point that immediately calling for huge lawsuits against the airline is not the answer. If they had been real terrorists, then the airline did their job. When they get a report, they have to do something.
Sure, maybe we're oversensitized, but a freaking lawsuit is not the answer to every one of society's ills. That's just plain stupid.
They were not harmed. That's a fact. Maybe they felt bad. I've felt bad, too, in my life. They ended up getting on another flight and even got an apology. In this world, that's about the best you can hope for. There are too many other things that need serious attention for this to get as much as it has.
Let's get this angry about the economy, the environment, and especially about the middle east fiasco that GWB created. But don't waste our energy on something that ended up being nothing.
You must be kidding when you state thay were not harmed. You don't consider this form of emotional battery and blatant prejudice harm? What standard do you use for harm, physically bludgening them into submission? Racial profiling and religious discrimination ARE very serious matters. If these people were WASP's they never would have been bothered.
Air Tran essentially took the position that these people were guilty until proved innocent, believing a passenger's unverifiable gossip. They had ample opportunity to work out an amicable solution privately but instead made a public spectacle of it. The way I understood American jusriprudence is that you were innocent until proven guilty.
And they didn't get to fly for free on US Airways either---they paid the prevailing price. Air Tran eventually apologized for their asinine and paranoid behavior and offered them their money back---but insisted what they did was the proper procedure. What a lame non "apology."
There is absolutely no call for aiding and abetting fearmongering and paranoia which is the modus operendi for control by Neocons. This dysfunctional behavior needs to end now, for it's small wonder that Muslims dislike us. Personally, I hope they sue and win because the paranoid jerks that caused this need to learn a lesson.
The good news for you, seatech1, that as a complete and utter fucking airhead, you can replace the air with some lighter gas and float to your destination, saving you the cost of a plane ticket. Maybe that's why this isn't such a big deal to you?
So your answer to the hatred is more hatred. All I said was it was not something to sue over. In context, I was talking about law suits. Not physical abuse, which they did not suffer. Not all of the other issues that some posters have accused me of, like being for torture.
Fine, if you think that the airline was negligent or acted recklessly (the legal obstacle they have to overcome), then sue away! I just don't believe that law suits are the answer to everything.
Your response, on the other hand, is more hatred. I expressed my opinion that it was not something that should end up in law suits, and I explained why. A serious debater would have expressed the other side of the argument and possibly swayed me.
For example, bmw528 brought up emotional harm, which I honestly did not consider (but should have). And, apparently I was wrong about getting a free ticket. I thought I read somewhere that the FBI paid for their ticket.
I'm not someone who looks to the courts for every remedy. That won't change. Seeing the comments here, a lawsuit seemed to be the first thing that everyone mentioned. That's a knee-jerk reaction these days.
I agree with your perspective that lawsuits are not necessarily the answer, however Air Tran should have issued a more unconditional apology rather than their Nurenberg like defense that we're sorry, but we were just following orders---which is baloney. They had the discretion to act in a more restrained and civil manner and willifully chose not to---and apparently regretted it later.
In my view, this whole incident was a disgusting affront to an American family who did nothing wrong except flying with fearful, paranoid people. I hope that Air Tran and the airline industry learns a lesson with this incident and acts with restraint and compassion in the future.
I think it is fair to say that we have much more in common than not, let us lift up what we agree on and respectfully disagree on the rest.
What would constitute a genuine unconditional apology?
A straightforward admission that their actions here were excessive and beyond what was reasonably necessary to resolve the matter and that they intend to take corrective measures including disciplinary action to insure that the incident is not repeated. Further, they should state that their policy is not to accuse any passenger of anything without sufficient cause. And sufficent cause does not include taking action based solely on another passenger's unsubstantiated statement. Their "but we were just following procedure" mea culpa tagline doesn't make it with me and should be dropped.
Seeing the photo made me wonder if the women have to cover their heads, can they do it with a wig?
show some respect for other people and cultures, will ya? This is a liberal blog not some red state outhouse.
The question is not as strange as you may think. I am not aware of Muslim women doing this but significant numbers of Hasidic women do it.
I agree with G. orwell. They family had passed the necessary security clearances why then would they be the ones to leave the plane. If the other passenger felt intimidated they shoukd have requested another flight. Or been told to take another flight.
I guess the chicken shits don't fly to very many destinations around the world; which is very American I might add, because there are Muslims from many different countires throughout the world. I think in this case they were Indian, one of our allies. I used to fly to the middle east on a regular basis but I have been flying all my life, so can't say it bothered by any. Personally, I would prefer the airlines ban most of the loud, obnoxious, a-hole Americans I've had to fly with.
Bedwetter Nation
Good thing he didn't reach down to tie his shoe or the air marshal might have shot him.
Having worked for 33 years in the airlines industry, I have heard at least on every third flight discussions about where the safest place is to sit. The people making a mountain out of a molehill are those paranoid and bigoted Americans that think everyone should be like them........dumb and dumber. Sit on your hands and shut up. What a system?
As a black male, this kind of thing really pissed me off. I know first hand about racial profiling, I've been dealing with it since I was a kid. This whole notion that racial profiling hurts no one as long as the perptrators apologize is ridiculous. Oh believe me it hurts. This man had his kids with him. What kind of message is that sending to a child, huh? That as long as your skin is brown and you have a arab surname that you better be prepared to prove that you aren't up to something. I'm sorry, I can't get down with that. The bottom line is if this man and his family had been white this would have never happened, and that spells racism, period!!! This is no different from when I walk past someones car and hear the power locks on their door click shut or walk by a women walking down the street at night and notice that she clutched her purse just a little bit tighter as we cross paths.
I fly often and often on airtran. My experience is that the airline ASSIGNS seats.I agree that there is plenty of paranoia regarding airtravel and muslims and muslims and anything in the USSA but damn,just find your freaking seat and sit in it.There is NO safe place to sit on a passenger jet.
This family was prescreened by the fbi yet somehow still didn't get that the deck was stacked against them.Or maybe they did and decided to f*ck with people.Or maybe they were just flat ass ignorant of the potential consequencies of there words.Either way they inconvenienced a bunch of fellow passengers and jammed up aflight schedule allthe way down the line.
Flying sucks.
Sit down.
Shut up.
And get on with your life.
If you have a political statement make,make it elsewhere,the airlines have no tolerance for it.
WHy do you (and they) refer to those passengers as Muslim? If I'm not mistaken, they're Americans! Shouldn't that be the preferred way to describe them? It's not as if they were fresh from whatever country they were originally from. They are American citizens who were ejected from that plane because of the racist views of some twit who was afraid of their conversation, and an airline that didn't seem to give a good goddamn that they were guilty of the worst kind of knee-jerk reactionism.
I think most people are under the impression that this was a matter of common sense being overridden by hate mongering and racial profiling. What it was is the effect of the complete systematizing of the system of airline security. As soon as any complaint was registered, no matter how unsupported, nobody had any choice but to handle the situation the way the government has informed the airlines they must handle it. There is no freedom to do what you want to do; you go by the rules of the security protocols set down by the airline, enforced by several government agencies. The embarrassment of the family was probably equally shared by the airline staff too. They do not have an option on how to carry out the procedures in anything like a security matter. They can lose their jobs, be fined, and be arrested in some cases for going one step outside of the company manual.
Is it wrong? Yes. Did it have to be done the way it was? Yes, for the aforementioned reasons. Will this incident cause changes in the system? No. Will the family sue and will all the airline staff be trampled under the scorn of a herd of people? You bet. Will anyone remember this in six months? Yes, of course, the family and the people that had to do what their job requires of them.
One last thing, the FBI screw ups should know that under the circumstances they have no say as to what happens to the passengers, which was determined by the airlines legal counsel months before when they knew this sort of thing would happen and they made allowances for it in reviewing the standard and practices of the company.
Common sense!
That's what I was trying to say, although not quite as well as you did.
Believe or not my heart goes out to these fellow americans for all the sh*t they have to tolerate.I know what it is like to be investigated multiple times by different facets of homeland security just in the course of maintaining my career.It's ridiculous! Do any of you hold a TWIC or even know what one is? If you don't,don't feel bad because most TSA employees (TSA issues the card to transportation workers)don't either!
The fact that I have been investigated,approved and been issued a credential doesn't stop TSA at whatever airport from time to time sticking the proverbial flashlight up my arse.
It sucks.
I hate it.
But it doesn't change the fact that we live in a police state!
Only WE can change that.
How many of you folks fly regularily?
If you do air commute, you know what a clusterf*ck it is!
Jeebus,the airport is NOT the place to express your views.
We live amongst mind f*cked people who get their intel from da teebee!
The sheeple will rat anyone who is not like them out in a heartbeat. And the further away from "white" you are the worse it is.It's wrong,I agree,but it won't change until WE change it.
In the meantime try your best not to be an asshole on the f*cking airplane!
NO comments perhaps but the sound of keyboards Googling TWIC is deafining.
Mumbai, London, Madrid, etc. etc. when was the last time there was a terrorist attack that wasn't perpetrated by muslims? People are freaked, mistakes are going to happen. Unfortunate but that's the way it goes these days. Yeah yeah I'm a right wing fascist blah blah woof woof etc...
Go ahead and tell that to the Irfans and see how convincing you are. Surprisingly enough, the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, law abiding citizens. Perhaps you should stop being such a dupe of the Buschovite junta and pass your judgment elsewhere.
"when was the last time there was a terrorist attack that wasn't perpetrated by muslims?"
When was the last time you thought for yourself??? Just because there are no investigations, simultaneous exercises going on at the same time, and media telling you to fear muslims, doesn't give you the right to judge muslims. You are a racist.
How about look up some facts for yourself before believing what this atrocious media tells you?
Spain- couple of little days back. Basques decided to bomb a tv station. Muslim?
Well, if you want to go that route, when was the last time there was a terrorist attack perpetrated by a family flying with children?
I happen to live in London, east London for that matter and I am surrounded by Muslims, seeing as though there are three mosques and majids withing a mile and a half of each other. Some women even wear the full niquab/ burkha thing. They use the same supermarket as the ultra-orthodox Jews from the area use and there haven't been any infitadas in the fruit section. We all get along quite well, even though the Tube bombings were a terrible thing. However, there were Muslims that were hurt and killed in that incident as well. I don't think that even 0.1% of Muslims condone those attacks. The IRA attacked London a hell of a lot more than the Muslims did, yet my husband, who has an Irish surname, never got looked at crosseyed when he would visit London in the 90s.
These people on this plane had their rights trampled upon. I've seen it myself when I traveled back to the United States; a Bangledeshi family was pulled out of the line and taken for security checks while everyone else was able to proceed. It's happened to me, and I am a black American. I got stopped in Newark and told to take my sandals off because they had a lot of metal on them. They were held together with a couple of rivets and buckles. Meanwhile, my foreign national husband went through with his socks and gym shoes, but he's all right cos' he's all white.
How do we know this family was Arab anyway? They could have been Pakistani, Iranian, Indian, whatever. What if the people in questions had been Middle Eastern/ South Asian Christians? Would the people complaining have said anything if the woman had not been wearing the hijab?
blackmon...I have flown all my life, mostly on business and on the larger aircraft and there is definately two places safer than others. The seats over the wings as the structure there is the most sound and at the complete back of the plane which is the least sound and tends to break off first. May not save you but your chances are much better than anywhere else.
I too have flown most of my life. And the only time I ever felt I had a fighting chance in an aircraft was when I was strapped into an ejection seat of S-3 Viking.
You are an experienced travellerand your right; odds are that if your seated where you describe you have a better chance of survival.Yet those odds are slim at best.
And as an experienced traveller,you also know that seat selecton (excepting a few airlines(airtran NOT being one))is made upon purchase of ticket or arrival at the gate.
Unless your flying Southwest, your not deciding on the safest place to sit as your walking down the aisle!
My political views are not in play here.I don't wish to reapete myself so read carefully my comments above.However I will add this:If this family had made onto the aircraft their security issues with the gov AND the airlines were more or less over.I,obviously was not there but I suspect that their attitudes and behavior on the aircraft itself probably had alot to do with how they ultimatly were treated.
I know this sounds awfull,but,bear in mind airttran is an discount airline,meaning that many of their passengers are NOT seasoned travellers. And by that I mean that airtran aircrews deal with alot of folks whom are about $20.00 away from bus ticket so they,in my experience ,are pretty flexible and open minded.
Since 911 flying is serious business and if some redneck in seat 23d or whatever gets it in his/her head that comments made by someone/s "jist ain't rite" the aircrew has an obligation to act on it. And you know that!
And you as an fellow air commuter,I am sure,do not want to miss a connecting flight,or a business meeting just because two assholes ( or more) converge.
Is that reasonable to you?
There will not be a genuine unconditional apology, because they don’t make the rules. And yes the rules stand because they are necessary to move several hundred million people through the air transport system without any big headaches. It’s like I posted earlier, there is a system in place and all systems are inherently flawed, but as long as the flaws don’t require the system to change for the vast majority, it isn’t likely to change for a class of incidents. I am saying this as a matter of experience within the systems of business; my job is to adapt to systems without challenging the right of the business to create itself, merely to find out what the system is, the limits, and the best way to use the system to complete goals assigned to me. That’s why I feel a sense of empathy for the people that were involved from both sides, because I have been on both sides. And in point of fact, nobody that enters into the system of air transport has any right to an expectation that they will be treated differently than anyone else given the same set of circumstances that have so far been related to this case by the media.
Finally, at least for me because I won’t be going forward on this issue, the demonizing of the people that reported the behaviors of the people that had been involved did what we have been told to do for almost ten years now, and that is to simply report anything that we find amiss or that makes us concerned for our safety and the safety of others. Making inflammatory statements as to their morality, or mental health; calling them racist and the like, is just as unfair to them, as the claims of unfair treatment of the family that was involved in the incident.
In the immortal words of Frank Zappa :
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus...
even a black family (maybe, that all depends) if they had been discussing the safest place on an airplane. Because they were Arab or Persian their comments demanded more suspicion. That is flat-out, unequivocal racism.
But why is a question by a fellow passenger about which seat is safest "simply report[ing] anything that we find amiss"? what is amiss about that question? what about that question should cause anyone to be concerned for their own safety or the safety of others?
As for an expectation of being treated differently than this family, I fully expect that I, a white woman, would not be treated the same. And, that's the shame of it all.
I guess from here on in we refer to people by their religion? Hey Jew, sit down. Hey Catholic, STFU! Hey Hindu, keep it down! What a damned joke.
Six Muslim clerics were tossed off a plane because someone saw them praying before the flight. I'm pretty sure they sued and won although the settlement wasn't much but they did force an apology from the airline.
Good for them, I say. A little tolerance never hurt anybody.
My uncle was dying in Seattle and my family there called to let me know when the ball would drop and to be ready to get up there as quickly as I could. I got the call, grabbed my carry on put in clothes for a few days, my shaving kit, and my laptop. Looking on line I saw a flight that would be leaving in two hours and hopped the bus and got to the airport in plenty of time. At the counter I bought the ticket with my debit card (I pay cash for everything I can), and headed to the security check point.
I put my bag on the conveyor after having removed the laptop, and put my pocket stuff in the little tray, took off my shoes and went through the metal detector and saw that my bag had been pulled off the system and was waived to the side where my bag was being inspected. They went through the bag but stopped at the shaving kit and opened it. I don’t use the kit except for travel and wasn’t sure what was inside. There was a bottle of hand sanitizer that they said was too large to be accepted and if I would like to send it back to my home through the mail. Since I got it at the dollar store I told them to just dispose of it anyway they wanted. There was also a bottle of mentholated lineament and they asked what it was since the label is written in Chinese (I buy it at Asian markets) and told them they can throw it out too, since I would be going to Seattle and knew it would be no hassle to buy it there.
I then got on the plane, put my bag away and was looking at the flight magazine when two guys in blazers got on the plane and made a beeline to me. When they got to me they asked me to come with them and asked to have my bag. We walked down the aisle and I exited the plane.
There was a security area and an office in the concourse and I went in with the two guys that got me off the plane and found two other people in the office. One of the people was the TSA that had gone through my bag. They gave a cursory apology for the inconvenience requested my ID, which is my US passport which cuts through ID crap pretty fast, and had me empty my pockets. They then asked me to go to the next room. My levels of irritation and concern were all elevated. There I found a man in a lab coat who asked me to undress. I didn’t of course, until I knew what was going on and was told they needed to do a cavity search. At no time had I been told what was going on and why I was being selected for this treatment.
The guy in the lab coat was a doctor from the airport medical clinic on retainer with the TSA for this search. He then shoved gloved fingers up my anus, rooted around for a bit, pulled out and told me to dress. I was now major pissed.
When I went out to the front office there was only one guy. He got all my stuff together, spoke with the doctor for a moment then told me I could leave. I got into my best robot mode (I have a black belt in verbal self defense) and required an explanation of the assault on my person.
I was told that I fit a profile of a high risk person. I was a single male traveling alone on a one way ticket (my brother and his wife were in Seattle and would be driving me back) with two suspect liquids. That was the reason. When I asked why they just didn’t open the bottles and smell them since it would be obvious what they were, I was told that they can’t just open something that is suspect because there is no knowing what it is and that it might be lethal. Oddly it made sense to me.
When I got outside to the passenger area I found that my flight had left, the airline had no more flights to Seattle that day, but my ticket charges had been credited to my account. They offered no help to me because by that point I was no longer a passenger, and I was on my own.
I got a ticket from another airline having to use a credit card since my debt account wouldn’t show the credit from the first airline for twenty four hours. I flew on the plane feeling violated and pissed and got to Seattle just in time to watch my uncle die. I did not however call the media and tell them how a middle aged white male was poorly treated by the system, because it happens thousands of times a day and it is not news.
and because your story isn't the same as what happened to this family. You did buy a one way ticket at the last minute. You did violate the rules on bringing liquids into carry on luggage. That's two red flags that even someone like me who does not fly often knows about. Not that what happened was great, but it's not the same as having your entire family pulled off a plane because one member essentially asked "where should we sit?" Creating false equivalencies doesn't changed that.
I think he was making a broader statement about how Fascistic airline security can personally affect ALL of us, not just "brown people" or people who dress all Muslimy-like. Not having a pissing contest saying "I GOT MISTREATED EVEN WORSE LOOK AT ME!"
As for your "red flags": buying a last minute ticket SHOULD NOT be a problem. Sometimes you need to get somewhere AT THE LAST MINUTE. If a movie is playing at 7:30 and I decide I want to see it, I don't have to book reservations to drive my car starting at 7:08 PM and arriving at... NO. This is about freedom in the most basic sense of the word that is possible.
The liquid: He let them throw it out. If foiling terrorist plots was easy as terrorists letting you throw out their bioweapons at security check, I don't think we'd need to be ANALLY VIOLATING PEOPLE in the name of stopping terrorism. Especially AFTER they let you throw out the bioweapons.
All I meant was that this stuff happens. I didn’t break any laws, neither did this family. But once things start we have no way of stopping them. And if they want to sue or whatever, fine; but to assume the events were based on racism is not fair. I’ll leave it at that.
to assume racism here. if these people were white, they wouldn't have been pulled off the plane.
His point seemed to be that this happens all the time to white folks and the truth is it doesn't. White people don't get pulled off planes for asking which are the safest seats. He can pretend that's not racism, but that doesn't mean it's not.
And, they're not MY red flags, they're red flags for the TSA. I didn't say there was never a reason to fly at the last minute, but when you do, the airlines will look more closely at you. I think it's stupid because everyone knows it, so if you want to do something nefarious you'd probably not buy a last minute ticket.
The liquid: yes, he let them throw it out. Again, I didn't say what the airline did was right, but it's still not the same as pulling a family off a plane for asking about seating or make the racial profiling not happen. And, if someone was a terrorist and really wanted to get on a plane, of course they'd let the TSA throw away the bottles--so they could get on the plane.
If it had been a Muslim American who had bought a ticket at the last minute and appeared at the airport with two bottles of liquid, I doubt he'd of gotten by with just an anal probe.
Given how angry I got just reading that story, I admire you greatly for being able to endure that without flipping out and getting arrested, as would've DEFINITELY happened to me. God forbid.
I hate America and it's Racism a bit more every day. When they finally get theirs it will be a celebration to the rest of the world.
oh the awesome lawsuit.
Wow this broadcast is pretty retarded. "Because of their beards, their headscarves, and *MAYBE EVEN* the color of their skin, they endured *WHAT ONE OF THEM SAYS* was... discrimination."
CNN doesn't even have the balls to call the textbook definition of discrimination, discrimination. MSM needs to go suck eggs, srsly.
who are the terrorists? What do they look like?
Safety and security aren't the same thing. I hope the families sue.
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