Thom Hartmann: Blizzard in the Northeast Reminds Us of the Need for Well Funded Capable Government
While discussing New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s political woes with their response to the Boxing Day Blizzard, progressive radio host Thom Hartmann was asked by Countdown substitute host Sam Seder if there’s anything in the Constitution that requires the government to do things like snow removal.
Hartmann points out that actually, there is.
Hartmann: The common welfare is cited twice in the Constitution Sam; in the preamble and in the body of the Constitution. And so you would think that clearing snow is part of the common… is part of the general welfare. […] The commons in general is what government was created to be responsible for; the roads that we travel on, the water that we drink, the air that we breathe. We’ve expanded it over the years… the safety of our food supply, the safety of our drugs, but it’s all about the commons.
And that really is the purpose of democracy in America. We are the government. The government is us.
Thom also reminded us of just what these believers in privatizing everything and the “free market” supposedly working its wonders are all about—making money.
Yes,
with lost communications, They have the equipment that our civilians need plus
vehicles, boots on the ground.
our men and women of the national guard could help also.
call this nation's military and ASK,
yes,
ASK for their help.
Would be good for PR,
or public relations also.
The worst they can do, is say no.
Prepare, prepare, prepare for the worst,
and always train, train, train,
thats what they do too.
Use what we have, to help our own people.
I suggest you learn a little American history before you advocate putting federal soldiers in American streets every time there is a snowstorm or heavy rain.
And the National Guard worked wonderfully in this capacity, without raising State's rights issues, under exactly these circumstances...until the brilliant Bush the 42nd essentially federalized them to use in his personal wars.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Spot on with both points. Thanks.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
Why would you think that the military has the snowplows to get the job done? What plows they might have in the area were being used on surface roads and runways on base.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Government is always the enemy until you need a friend.
The last thing you want to hear is..."Hi, I'm from Goldman Sachs...and I'm here to help."
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
I may have to steal that line from you the next time I have a discussion of privatization with my conservative pals. Thanks.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
Be my guest.
Oh, and if your conservative pals have troubled mortgages then use..."Hi. I'm from Bank of America...and I'm here to help."
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
and I'm here to steal"?
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
"HI. I'm from Bank of America...I'm too big to fail."
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
"Hi, I'm from WallStreet all your retirement money are belong to us..."
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
The seven most terrifying words in the English language are: We've come to take our government back.
There is just no profit in government services for the people.
That is what the crazies call socialism
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
I don't know about in the States, but when you pay property taxes in Canada part of that is for snow removal. If they don't provide the service ask for a tax rebate.
far left loon >.<
didn't recognize him at first.
I agree with the first poster... we send our military in to help with natural disasters in other countries, what's wrong with taking care of our own?
Teabaggers would probably proclaim "gub'mint introoson" on any matter.
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
Than call me a teabagger.
As "Liberal AND Proud" said similarly above, the US military does not and should not be engaged in domestic affairs. We already have enough of a police state with SWAT, ATF, HLS, TSA, ICE, FBI, 3,984 domestic counterterrorism organizations, etc... Let's not militarize our homeland anymore.
Instead of making our Marines do shovel duty, why don't we properly fund and staff our existing community resources that have worked just dandy the past many generations? I'm all for finding reasons to bring our troops home but a blizzard isn't a good one.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
Well said.
So many young so-called progressives really have fallen prey to this right wing mantra of the military as some kind of armed protector of human rights and well being.
The military in a democracy is for use in protecting the national interests of the government and the country, as you stated clearly above.
However, under the wrong kind of government...the military is the muscle that keeps the populace in line. The debate over the strength and role of the military in creating and maintaining our way of life was hotly debated during the Continental Congress.
Again, I suggest those that don't really understand this, read the Constitution and the oaths of office and service that elected officials and indoctrinated soldiers take. They all say the same thing...protect and defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States. Not the government.
If they did that, and read just a little bit of history, it would also give the 2nd Amendment a bit more clarity.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
They could prolly use the National Guard in Pennsylvania. This is shocking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow58DHLWtdI
(town disgusted by snow penises)
far left loon >.<
I had to close my eyes to make sure it was him (I listen to him every day on his radio show). And it's one of the few times I've seen him in a coat and tie. He's usually all casual. But he's one of the big brains in political punditry....He should have his own TeeVee show.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
going all historical on us, as usual. (I didn't make that up, that's from Mike Malloy!)
Nice to see Thom getting on the air, now that he's actually living in DC. I'm enjoying Seder filling in for Keith this week. MSNBC needs to junk the rerun of Tweety and put somebody like Thom, Seder or Cenk on live in that spot.
Until you respect the citizenship of those with which you disagree, you're not a true American.
So good to see Sam again. He got so screwed by Air America and it's great to see him subbing for Keith.
I'm sad he left Portland (where I live), but glad to see him finally get some exposure on the national stage. He's one of the most intelligent and well-informed "pundits" out there. I emphasize "pundit" because he's more than that...he's a historian. He just has a liberal heart. You go, Thom. We love you.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
isn't 'free' and it isn't about 'making money'.
It's about moving control of commerce (i.e., unfettered interpersonal interactions of all kinds) from the people to the global corporations (i.e., elitist/gov't cabals) and enabling them to steal all of our wealth.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
There's never been a free market, and there never will be a free market. Maybe Craig's List..
And for someone to even suggest that privatizing government services even closely resembles a free market is just insane. It's a money printing machine for a private firm with no competition.
As far as the markets for goods and services go, the LAST thing that these large corporations would ever want would be a true free market. They need their lobbyists and their campaign contributions to keep competition away from them.
It's to their benefit to lie, steal, cheat and hide important information about themselves. That's hardly a "free market".
And how many industries and/or companies would still exist in their current bloated forms without massive government intervention and subsidies?
the financial "industry" and the military complex would not exist if it weren't for the government.
Without government-issued debt, securities and obligations, bankers could not make money out of thin air and charge interest (or their ability to do so would be severely limited). And without the government buying weapons, the military industries would have no market whatsoever for their overpriced useless products.
Which is ironic, because those two industries are populated and controlled by the most fanatic "free market" anti-socialist people.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Civilian aircraft (most of the technology was created in the military), the internet, computers, the satellites we use for cable TV and cell phones, most of our bio tech breakthroughs, our highly subsidized agriculture, amongst other industries. The US government covers more R & D costs than any other government in the world.
You might like this, Dean Baker's "The Conservative Nanny State".
http://www.conservativenannystate.org/
is privatized....there will be no more public square....or national parks or forests....
Boy we sure need that military out there all over the world though....
given all those who want to attack and destroy America for its' freedoms...
End freedom for a safer America.
While completely sympathizing with those caught in the East Coast blizzard, once you got west of New Jersey, there was practically no snow whatsoever. And because it happened in a major, populated and urban area, it recieved the lion's share of media coverage. Yet, just weeks earlier, Ohio and western New York got hammered, and it was, "Oh well, too bad," and almost no media attention to their plight.
The next time a major storm hits the west and midwest and people are stranded and inconvenienced, perhaps our metropolitan friends in Philadelphia, New York and Boston will remember their misery and pay a little attention to their more rural fellow citizens.
Democratic Party progressive, Vietnam veteran and proud Union member for 41 years
and it was, "Oh well, too bad," and almost no media attention to their plight.
That's because there are no major media outlets in Ohio.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Why does it have to be the gov't? 25 years ago people got together and shoveled their own driveways, when they were done there, they went through the neighborhood and helped out where they could. People need to quit being so damn lazy and get out, shovel their own driveways and help their neighbors. It'll help the community and will bind them closer together which will help our nation in the long run...
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate
their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson
So, you're suggesting the local neighbors who get together to hand-shovel driveways do the same for the interstate highways and US and state routes that runs through all communities? That's ludicrous, and by the way, up yours.
It's all well and good to be neighborly and help shovel driveways out, but I am NOT f*cking doing a bucket brigade to clean the highways that I'm proud to pay taxes for.
I worked for a railroad for 41 years and watched the privately owned rights-of-way deteriorate while the government built superhighways and airports and let the greatest transportation system in the world go to hell. The railroad should have been nationalized 50 years ago, and we might have had railroads compariable to the rest of the civilized world instead of a third world bananna republic.
Democratic Party progressive, Vietnam veteran and proud Union member for 41 years
we live in the age of "Me, Me, Me". People don't give a damn about anybody but themselves and their own comfort. The days of community are long gone. Today's mantra is "What's in it for ME!"
Haven't you been paying attention to the Rethugs? All they care about is how it can benefit their own pocketbook. If it doesn't provide money or a profit for them, screw it.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
This just illustrates something that should be obvious to everyone: doing something collectively can at the same time be benefit you individually. Our privatized health care system is clearly not in our individual interests. If you equate the collective with not being in someone's self interest then you are basically conceding the argument to the right, and for no good damn reason. It's this irrational, illogical, a-historic mindset that has gotten so many on the right to ignore reality. People in countries that solve problems collectively, and have far more socialized services, are better served than systems that have been privatized, assuming of course the government isn't stacked with people who are working to underfund and under-staff the systems.
Ask Chileans or Argentinians how they felt about their privatized pension system. A Latin American polling, Latinobarometro, did about a couple of years ago, BEFORE the economic collapse really set in. Over 90% of respondents said that they would prefer the state control and administer the pension system. The conservative candidate for president in Chile, during the previous election said that the state had to control more of the pensions and that the privatized pension system had basically been a failure...and the right still holds Chile up as a model to follow.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN14444480
"Latin Americans want more state control of services"
"According to the annual Latinobarometro survey, more than 80 percent of those living in continental Latin America and the Dominican Republic -- a region of 400 million people -- believe the government should control and oversee public services such as pensions, health and education, the annual survey showed."
"...In Argentina, Chile and Uruguay, some 90 percent believe that pensions should be in the hands of the state. All currently have private pension systems. Seventy-eight percent of respondents in Chile also believe the telecoms system, privatized 20 years ago, should be in state hands."
If privatized services works so damn well, why are so many rejecting them? The answer is obvious.
because 24 years ago, after that snow storm the people got together and said this is crazy, lets pay taxes and let the snow shoveling be part of the government function that we pay taxes for.
... you live in the SouthWest and have only seen snow on TV.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Around here (Michigan- where we tend to get a lot of snow) people do the same damned thing they did 25 years ago: They shovel their driveways, then help people dig out the cars parked on the street that got plowed in. And no one who gets plowed in on the street has a legitimate gripe.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
When I was stuck after a big snow many years ago, a couple of rednecks showed up with their pickup-up truck and offered to help. I said, "sure". They said, "that'll be $50. I said, "no thanks" and got my car back in the driveway and walked to work.
What's not to like for the republicans? Every man for himself and gouging people for profit in a crisis. What a country.
It's not so funny now that it isn't black folk drowning.
If the Reich wing continues to prevail and win I can only imagine what this country will be like in 15 or 20 years , I am glad I am older and in lousy health .
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
Blow up snow not the Middle East!
....what if the unions intentionally did a work slowdown? Does that change the picture? I don't see the difference between a company failing to do a paid for task and a union of govt. workers failing to do a paid for task. Is a union and/or workers who under performs because they want money any different than a company doing the same. Bad people in unions or running a corp. do no service to the common welfare.
Trying to run with the story that Rupert Murdoch's NY Post is pimping? Not buying that poorly sourced p.o.s. article.
Here's what happened: NYC got rid of a lot of plow drivers. Then they got hit with a blizzard, when a lot of the drivers they'd kept on were out of town- BECAUSE IT WAS CHRISTMAS WEEKEND!
If the management had been smart, they would have declared an emergency and canceled the drivers' days off. That's how it works up here in the snowbelt, Tex. Because plow drivers have a lot of downtime in the summer, they don't usually plan winter vacations. The holiday season is a bit different- they will ask for the time off, and they'll get it, but it's in most union agreements that the vacation can be cut short if there's snowfall.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
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