Sheldon Whitehouse: Iraq Justification Raises the Prospect of Criminal Prosecution for Torture
By Heather Friday May 15, 2009 4:30am
Sheldon Whitehouse while being asked about the torture bombshell that Lawrence Wilkerson dropped on Dick Cheney says that if what Wilkerson asserts is true and the Bush administration went outside of the OLC's legal justification for the torture, it raises the prospect for criminal prosecutions.
Sanchez: We're hearing from ex-Powell Chief of Staff Lawrence Wilkerson and he's making the argument that he believes that what the Bush administration was doing with enhanced interrogations was trying to make a case for the invasion of Iraq and trying to justify what happened in Iraq. So you believe that is actually what enhanced interrogation, "so called" torture was being used for?
Whitehouse: I've heard that to be true. There is some further evidence of that in Chairman Levin's Armed Services Committee report. There is not a great deal of evidence that came out in our hearing one way or the other about that. The one thing I will say about that is that if that is true, then it takes the application of these techniques out of the protected scope of the Office of Legal Counsel opinion.
Sanchez: And it makes this them political. It's not about we were scared, we wanted to defend the country any more. Now it's about we needed to have some political justification or something we wanted to do. (crosstalk)
Whitehouse: And that raises the prospect of there being a criminal prosecution that could justifiably emerge from these facts if that were in fact the motivation.
Sanchez: One quick thing before I let you go...Am I hearing you say that if there was evidence, enough evidence on this particular subject, that it was being used to try and get or boost the reason for the war in Iraq, that you would be more likely to push for criminal prosecution?
Whitehouse: Torture is criminal. If it's not justified by the OLC opinion. If there aren't any defenses that that raises because you've gone outside of it then it exposes people to that. That's a decision that should be made by the Attorney General, by an appropriate prosecutor or official...
Sanchez: But will you say on the record that if you find evidence of that you're more apt to want to push for a prosecution? Yes or no.
Whitehouse: One is more apt to do that--correct.
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If this can be shown (that they went outside the scope of the OLC opinion) then fine. Go for it. I am worried though that this might be a bit of a setup. It could be difficult to prove that and I can hear Lindsay Graham saying "See?..they didn't go outside the scope...so everything is ok."
The policy was still illegal no matter what the reason.
..What's the point? All the evidence of torture, the admissions of torture, the photos of torture, all this, everywhere all the time and nothing is being done. W has turned this country into a joke OBL uses to amuse and recruit terrorists and suicide bombers (oh I feel so safe now, thank you mr. bush, do I insert the word 'snark' here?)
I was going to say "Appoint a Spec...." you all know the rest but they won't and they're not gonna' and even if they do, it'll be it wasn't my fault, it wasn't on my watch, its all the Democrats fault, my car had a flat tire, my tux was at the cleaners.....
I'm done.
Investigations, trials and convictions will come. It will just take some time. At the root of it, Cheney and his pals conducted criminal activity, for political gain, that caused GREAT damage to the country. Many people are just starting to open their eyes after pulling their heads out of the sand (or whereevr it was that they had stuck them).
not talk to get this ball rolling. I'm tired of waiting for those in power to do the right thing. They just don't seem to get it. Torture is torture and there's no excuse for it or reason to use it. Plain and simple, it's against the law (certainly a number of them) and those who ordered it committed it just like their minions who carried out their orders.
Enough already! Start the prosecutions. This Obama government has to start taking action, not talking about taking action.
My big question is WTF?!
I wish. We have to remember that very few people can wrap their heads around that their very own government would ever do anything to actually harm them (the people). We've grown up learning that the government - and especially the president - is the Great benevolent daddy who would never, NEVER EVER let his own kids (the people of his country) be harmed in any way......
That is how the Bushs and Cheneys have been able to get away with so much these past eight years.
If Obama puts Eric Holder on any sort of a leash right now, I will no longer refer to him as President Obama. His name will be forever etched in my mind as President Aceveda -- obstructing justice and providing cover to George W. "Shane Vandrell" Bush and Dick "Vic Mackey" Cheney in exchange for making his sorry hide look good for the cameras, the business cretins, sanctimonious pack journalists within the media's ivory towers, and fellow elitist politicians.
So what will Cheney do to stop the prosecutions? He must have something up his sleeve...
It worked for Ken Lay.
out of the deal,Research "Valley of the wolves" a movie they were showing Moslems to rile them up for "Bring um on"
Especially Gary Bussy's part in the movie
"These people are criminals, they broke the law!" Blah, blah, blah.......
What ya' gonna do about it spinelesscrats???
All the democrats do is talk; then vote to uphold corporate fascism (change?) and never follow through on any criminality the Bushies committed - regardless of the overwhelming evidence, and arrogant self-admissions of the perpetraitors.
Why is the media arguing from the position that torture was legal, or somehow magically transformed into acceptable policy by the freaking OLC memo?
EXISTING law says torture is illegal. EXISTING treaties hold the same. As the line from 'A Few Good Men' goes, "These are the facts, and they are undeniable."
We need to start getting the word out now http://www.uruknet.de/?s1=1&p=54232&s2=14
Warning this is some of the torture pictures
Oops here they are but read that too
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/05/here-a...
this country has the arrogance to think that somehow the rest of the world is going to simply sit back for all eternity, and let us break international law "simply because we are America".
Keeep sliding down the slippery slope with this issue America. Keep getting your hands dirtier and dirtier.
We are not so far away from being a despotic nation in the lines of Nazi Germany, North Korea, or some of the Middle Eastern countries that we say are so evil.
And the blow back from the world, once the world has decided that it is tired of our bullshit...will not be pretty.
Seems Dick Cheney wants the CIA to release info on reliability of torture techniques, and for all of his efforts he is receiving a healthy dose of the truth instead.
This is absurd.
What Bush did was a crime against peace, the first crime of the crimes listed in the Nuremberg Tribunal Charter, here.
The crime from which all the others flow.
It does matter what machinations these people attempt to contrive, they have already been debunked in the Charter.
Let the War Crime Tribunals begin, if the present administration wishes to step INTO the docket as defendants to join Bushco, as may sadly be the case, that is their prerogative.
and well said Alice!
that Nuremberg was just a movie for god's sake! Damn good one too! Too bad the majority of the people must think of it as a great 'story'.
This is an interview with Bruce Fein regarding whether or not the United States is a Republic or an Empire. There is one telling statement he makes: "You must realize what war does! It legalizes murder!"
"War"...(even "undeclared" ones and illegal ones) is the lifeblood of the United States. We've become a lawless international, "nation-building" bully.
Here's the link, which I think is right to the point of this discussion:
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com...
nice vidio, to bad they will not show this on real TV.
Can someone tell me why nothing is being investigated?
... it's not profitable to do so.
Without launching into a screed about corporate conspiracies, the media nonetheless has a vested interest in preserving a status quo that protects their corporate masters. The media is no longer an objective presence, but corrupted by the glow of their own self-importance in the national dialogue.
..and politics is corrupted by corporate America?
You would think there is one, just one, uncompromised individual out there accurately reporting. They can't all be in the tank.
And Alice, good POST! Many people here are screaming for investigations, some louder than me but not many. We have to keep the pressure up and I get more and more frustrated every day that goes by and no Special Prosecutor is appointed. Its very sad that we've become a nation of torturers out of the nation that tried and convicted Nazi war criminals. Its not funny that OBL is laughing at our hypocrisy and using it as a recruiting tool. Its sad that the administration doesn't think we are strong enough to handle the truth. Its sad we have to look forward and not punish the criminals. And, except for Spain (I love Spain!), not one country is making an effort to hold us accountable for war crimes.
Because the C.I.A. and Cheney have destroyed all the pertinent evidence???
Not in their (plutocrats) interest. Could harm the bottom line!
Don't get your hopes up either, because the democratic party is on "THEIR" team too!
And Mr. Obama - is NO FDR! The corporate facist "Raw Deal" continues for 95% of the American people.
But that's suppose to be okay, because the democrats are serving it now.
People. We need you to keep watching this. Don't watch the corporate rullers of this country get away with them riping off tax payers, you need to just watch what WE tell the TV news to put on TV. You see we the US congress need the corporations to give us money so we can stay in congress for our hole life. You don't think we would go out and get a real job in a factroy with shit medical insurance and only 2 weeks off a year do you. We are above that kind of work. that kind of work is for you people not the rich. And one thing more, you middel class people( less and less every year) have more kids, we still want more wars and WE need "YOUR" kids to fight them...
4 years ago my friends told me I was out of my mind when I predicted that Cheney would be indicted and convicted of war crimes. They don't think I'm so crazy now! It will take a couple/few more years. But he's be convicted.
goverment as we speak.
Who controls the CIA? I think we all know it is Dick...
He became CIA director just after president Kennedy was murdered
it was not exactly just after. That would be like saying George W. became President just after Reagan.
of course he didn't want anybody to know that because he was involved in the murder
He became director in 1976 after he was ambassador to China from 1970 till then laying low and hob nobbing with chairman Mao,(see Kissinger's memoirs)
Stalin was Secretary of the Communist Party. It was sort of a lowly position, but he worked the strings behind the scenes, until it became the most important post in the Party. By then he held all the power and had 'dirt' on everyone. That's how he took power.
Then we got Cheney, the shadow VP, working behind the scenes, finger in every pie.
Not at all dissimilar, is it?
Nothing would please me more.
Cheney is worried, and he has good reason to be, with former insiders like Wilkerson out there spilling the beans.
Colin Powell is furious at how Cheney et al used him in the lead-up to the war. If Powell ever wants to redeem his reputation, he and Wilkerson need to start talking, and I mean REALLY talking, about the inner goings-on. It would be the perfect revenge.
After I typed this, I read appnzllr's comment at 06:01. I agree with you. Someone, somewhere, will get the ball rolling, and it may be sooner rather than later. I can only hope.
We need another Deep Throat. Like maybe one of the interrogators that cheney pushed to get info connecting Iraq and 9-11.
POP, you expecting "JUSTICE" from the corrupt government we have now?
I admire your ability to remain unjaded by the politicians.
Personally, I will believe it when I see it.
revenge. What I want to see is Justice. The only for the US to become a world leader is to put people who did the war crimes on trial.
I remember what it was like when Watergate broke. The media kept digging and the Congress kept investigating, but the White House wasn't cooperating. When I listen to Sheldon Whitehouse, it reminds me of Watergate. Someone is finally going to say something that is going to break the whole thing wide open.
Maybe we're closer than we even think. All this distraction about Pelosi maybe a sign of desperation.
when, as you say, "someone is going to say something that is going to break the whole thing wide open"
I'm having a hard time just waiting for that day...
If they ever do have a trial, they better keep the witness list locked up before the witnessess commit suicide. I am against wiretaps but I think they need to keep a close eye on cheney. He has been given a national platform to brag about torture by our media. Is cheney making us safer? I don't think so. I think he is extending an invitation for an attack.
We know one thing for sure. Cheney is telling the world that the US is not as protected as it used to be during the bush years, so he's basically saying if you want to attack the US, this is a good time.
Don't lose sight of what Lawrence Wilkerson said:
Yep, that part of what he said jumped out at me too. Why isn't someone in media countering cheney's claims with this?
Maybe by Sunday they will be able to digest it and regurgitate it on "Meet the Fox Wannabe David Gregory" of The real "Fox Sunday with Mike Wallace's son".
thanks for pointing that out Cap'n!
Please use this quote every time you see something about Cheney saying that Obama making the country less safe. It is the truth and it is a valid retort to the Cheney meme. Maybe the talking heads will get it drilled into their talking points.
Cap'n!
I do not believe there was no torture used between 2005-2009. Most of the evidence was probably destroyed just like the CIA tapes in which the CIA and the executive branch were under court order not to destroy. Based on Cheney's statements it appears he is all but acknowledging torture, I mean harsh interrogation techniques , was practiced between 2005-2009.
... in order for Dick Cheney to be correct - that is, waterboarding was part of a necessary and essential national security strategy - America must be attacked by terrorists AGAIN.
That's the only proof they have that they did the right thing. A flimsy memo as legal cover, and scaredy-boo scenarios.
Wake up, America. The Matrix has you ...
Of course there is an element of setting up an "I told you so" scenario. Odds are we will get attacked again. Cheney's torture program increases the chances of that. The 28%ers will have their fingers pointing at Obama if another attack occurs. But most of the American people have begun to wake up to Rovian tactics and will see beyond it.
... real security is not about 'ticking time bomb' silliness. It's about making sure our infrastructure is resistant, that it can withstand an attack without falling to pieces.
We don't market cars with James Bond gadgets so we can eliminate the other driver; we market them with safety devices and designs to protect us when the unexpected happens.
I worry about power-hungry people that might do anything to keep their power. Especially those that have found themselves recently out of the driver's seat. I mean Dick Cheney and his band of thugs. But I don't want to go all '9/11 truth' here at C&L.
It wouldn't take much. A van of explosives going off at a mall somewhere. The good guys almost foil it, but there is some KABOOM, and a little 'collateral damage', but just enough to get the sheep begging for increased security and "whatever it takes" to kill 'the terrorists'. Dick could arrange it. Know what I'm sayin'?
Cheney was behind the first attack!
Stop buying into bullshit distractions like what Pelosi knew, and when should Obama release photographs of Cheney's handiwork. Indicting Cheney would send the most powerful message possible that this Nation considers torture a crime.
... is part of the problem, unfortunately.
I can't accept 'the CIA lied to us' as the question of torture has been around for years, throughout the debate on the Military Commissions Act. Surely, Pelosi didn't think Alberto Gonzales was dissing the Geneva Conventions for laughs? That the White House was looking for 'moral clarity' because they were doing something right?
Kucinich understood, and he prepared Articles of Impeachment. Pelosi chose to sit on her thumbs. Reid, too.
Wake up
If Pelosi is our only hope now, I'm going back to sleep.
if you will allow the only one standing up for the truth to be silenced
She stonewalled Kucinich when he was standing up for the truth. What are you talking about? Many people drew her attention to this matter AFTER she wasn't told what was going on by the CIA. She dismissed her legislative duties by saying impeachment was off the table, which legally impeachment should always be an option for the house.
.... Congress SHALL impeach. Not maybe, not possibly.
Shall. As in 'Thou shall not kill.' It's a legal mandate.
shall
shall
CORE-MEANING: will happen in the future, or intended to happen
1. must: used especially in formal speech and writing to indicate determination on the part of the speaker that something will happen or somebody will do something
2. rules and laws: indicating that something must happen or somebody is obliged to do something because of a rule or law
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2003. © 1993-2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
can silence Pelosi now.Nobody else will stand up because they see there is no hope
The vast majority of people in power do not want prosecutions to happen, both sides of the aisle. It would take a person of principle to move on the matter, and there are very few in congress.
you already gave up.Then get back to work slave,Why waste your time posting here?And why attack the only democrat asking for a truth commision?You already give up
Suggesting Curtilingus is 'giving up' is a cheap shot.
Pelosi has her place in the timeline, whether or not the CIA blew sunshine up her ass or not. Our system of government relies on checks and balances, and she did nothing.
The torture issue is a failure on all counts, on both sides of the aisle, and it is wrong to ignore that fact.
The "House" (and Senate) needs to be cleaned....thoroughly of this ugly, creeping stain on our body politic. The whole world is watching what we do.
The evidence needs to be presented and let the "truth cards" fall where they may. Even on the Democrats' heads.
Criminals to the Constitution are criminals to the Constitution regardless of whether they have a (D) or an (R) or an (I) "Lieberman"!!, after their names.
as we can see they are trying to paint them all as guilty D's and R's.So who will that leave to indict anybody?
Answer,Nobody,So we just move on as Linsy Graham says we should
Whether we like it or not, the USA has led the Western world since WWII, in every way. All warts and foibles aside, we agreed to let you be the championed moral leader. We could blinker ourselves and spew out the "Truth, Justice and American way" stuff, to 'make the Western machine work', but how can we do that now?
(I know that's Superman I'm quoting, but... you get my point.)
it is just Kucinich newver delivers.
I think it is not helpful to bring up the "impeachment off the table" deal. There are some very valid reasons for Pelosi to not have tried to impeach. It would not have worked because the Republicans would never have voted for it and the Democrats and Pelosi would have egg on her face after the Republicans used it as a talking point for months and months and months. I wanted Bush impeached and there were very good reasons to impeach him but it simply would not have worked. Also prosecuting him and Cheney for war crimes will be better (I think we are taking baby steps to get there and I'm not sure if we will ever get there but it is getting inches closer every day). There is plenty more to be pissed at Pelosi for that she could do. This is just my opinion and totally understand there will be people who will not agree.
Then why did Kucinich push for it? Because he is a radical? Because he was unrealistic?
If we refuse to do things because they aren't politically expedient, no prosecutions would ever take place.
Rexhunter I wish I could show more optimism but I have not been impressed with the leadership this country has had for a long time. They have motives, driven by money. Most of their motives are ulterior, thus the rhetorical speech.
You will not get an honest answer or an honest days work out of 90% of the politicians and bureaucrats we have in government today.
I don't think we'll ever get another chance.I can see on fauxnews the CIA is busy overthrowing what little democrat/liberal representation we have.After she is defeated they win
Explain why Pelosi has yet to demand that the House create its own select committee to investigate the issues surrounding torture and the falsification of intelligence leading to war?
Not "encourage" existing cvommittees to exewrcise "vigorous oversight.
Create a House select committee.
She voted against the war and is attacked daily,She needs our support now or other democrats may be afraid to speak up because we didn't support her
The House has the power to investigate on its own. She is the most powerful member of that body. Waiting for the Truth Commission is like waiting for Godot.
and GOP are so busy discrediting her.And they are doing a pretty good job of that so far
because if it is that makes her either stupid or she is hiding something.
on fauxnews literally threaten her life,If she takes on the CIAeda
Name them and hand the tape over to the FBI.
at least 4 people warned her the CIA is experts at overthrowing goverments
CIA overthrowing goverments includes assassinations
After she is defeated they win.
Nancy Pelosi is the only thing left between freedom and the fascist state??? I will pray for you, even thought I'm not Xian.
Agreed. I always tell people, "If you want to understand the USA, put a pile of money in front of you, and keep looking at it during the discussion. It makes everything clear."
(Like, don't think of wonderful moral absolutes or ideologies, it's the money.)
"Impeachment is off the table."
No hope there. Now, suddenly, she's supposed to be our savior?
Sorry, she blew it in my book.
I mean, if she was a doctor, and despite indications to the contrary, she believed a lab test that said I didn't have cancer, and then, years later, says, "Oh, sorry, the lab botched your test," it's okay?
I'd be looking for a second opinion and a doctor who had the time to do their frackin' job.
Why do you say that? I'm not being snarky, I'm asking. I feel like if she would take one for the team and step down or whatever, some of the bite would be taken out of the repub argument...So Pelosi knew and admitted it and stepped down, what are your guys going to do? Of course, That's just my opinion from the very limited amount of stuff I've read. What's your take on Pelosi?
And so is Harman and Feinstein. I remember reading about the fact that they were briefed by the CIA on the "enhanced interrogation" techniques several years ago!
In spite of the facts right in front of her face Pelosi refused to even convene a House Judiciary Investigation into the Downing Street Minutes and all the other articles of impeachment Kucinich brought up on the House floor. Translation?: "We don't want to go digging for the truth. It may lead to some ugly revelations about Democrats."
She knowingly ignored the thrust of the Constitution and allowed an illegal war to go on unimpeded where innocent Iraqi's were being murdered and our soldiers were in harms way and being murdered and maimed.
She's a coward in my eyes. She should have put the Constitution ahead of all else.
And I don't buy the partisan argument that the votes would not have been there for impeachment. Once the truth came out in the hearings (which the whole world would have been glued to), even the Republican Congressmen/women would have been lobbied by their constituents to impeach.
History will not be kind to Pelosi, Harman and Feinstein. They are a pox on the Democratic Party.
We need Rep. Alan Grayson to be the Speaker of the House. Then we might get somewhere.
If some are saying the torture was justified, why do they care when Pelosi did what?
...Cheney, the Bush Administration, The Republicans(in control at the time) and go directly after Obama and Pelosi. If Pelosi is guilty, aren't the Republicans equally at fault?
That's the way it looks to me. But the media would much rather make much ado about nothing and create a Pelosi timeline, rather than dealing with the really big picture.
But I'm not going to cheer Pelosi for NOT DOING HER JOB.
At this point I'm not even sure what her job was. Was it to go public with classified information? I don't know what she knew or when she knew it and if she did know that waterboarding was being used but it was classified what should she have done? I'm not being snide, I really don't know what she was to have done.
I suppose she should have sent a letter protesting it. Other than that there is not much else she could do unless she had the testicular fortitude to go public with it and take whatever happened to her like a man... er... woman. Of course we all know how much testicular fortitude these assholes in congress have. 99.3% of them are chicken shit poltroons.
Once the matter is out in the public, and you have the White House shopping 'moral clarity' around, it's no longer classified.
And there are such things as closed-door hearings when classified information is on the table.
Surely, we're not going to wash our hands and say, "All you have to do is classify it, and there's no oversight."?
I just see this as a distraction and a break for the real criminals. Fox, Scarborough and Dobbs totally ignore Cheney and company and just rail on Pelosi as if she were a torturer.
... they're FOX, Scarborough, and Dobbs.
It's up to the people to make sure none of this gets swept under the carpet.
This is a Democrat=Republican game to make Pelosi equally culpable as Cheney/Bush and company, then let's not prosecute anyone.
Conservatives want us to join them in their toilet.
I've held the opinion that this has been wrong from the very start. The lies, the disregarding of laws, all of it.
Is it too much to expect someone, anyone in power to be able to see things the same way?
Checks and balances were written into the Constitution for a reason. We ignored them to our peril, and now the excuse is, "Oh, well, it's just a game to make the Democrats look bad."
Newsflash: they did that all on their own.
The Bush Administration was the most evil, secretive, partisan collection of criminals this nation has ever seen. Nancy Pelosi and the other Democratic leaders are guilty of negligence, dereliction in their handling of the criminals...yes. Cheney/Bush et al are the criminals. Law enforcement normally goes after shoplifters, not the clerk for allowing the thieves to run out of the store.
The simplest way for Pelosi to prove all these folks wrong and move things in the direction you prefer is for her to use her position to get her Democratic House colleagues to create its own select committee to investigate all these issues. The Watergate scandal was broken open by a Senate Committee, not a Truth Commission. Lets have a House Committee if Pelosi is serious.
I wouldn't put away your torches and pitchforks just yet folks.
but a good sharp barn hoe works great too.
... gonna need a motorized grain thresher.
there's a few of those available.
as do bush axes
observe
http://www.edarley.com/cat_img/D115_800.jpg
saying "Look,we are all guilty,so let move on and forget about it"
to replace the members of Congress carted off to prison works better for me.
... if you're guilty, the only 'move on' you're entitled to is:
GO TO JAIL. GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL. DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $2 BILLION DOLLARS.
Hersh on the video tapes...
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/5/14/7...
The poll at the bottom of the page is interesting
Thanks LNM. Here's my response to the poll. Any multiple choice answer with LSD in it, I'll pick the LSD.
How bad do you think the photos are?
d. like a nightmare H.R.Geiger on LSD couldn't dream
I picked the last one.
"if they are that bad we must have a full and public investigation that leads to prosecution"
Sanchez says:
Why did he put it that way? Why didn't he put it the way that it really is.
"So you believe that is actually what torture, "so called" enhanced interrogation was being used for?"
Interesting Rick, very very interesting.
and doesn't seem to have changed much since he hit
"teh bigtime".
crumpled him big time.
Lets face it, without a smoking gun, or maybe even with one, it'd be too easy to defend any torture that occured AFTER 9/11 as being for our "defense" (even though that pictures of our "defense" can't be released because it'll increase the danger to Americans) and no one in power's got the authority to stand up and call BS on that.
is clear about this! National security is NOT an acceptable legal defense for committing crimes!
Everyone knows that. I didn't say it was a legal defense, I'm saying its the defense that they will be use and if enough people believe it due to gullibility, complicity or cowardice, it then it'll fly.
they do seem to get away with that quite often. Which is why our once free press that protected us but has become a corporate press is so dangerous to us.
I want Bill Maher to interview Bush Administration officials about the "Ticking Time Bomb Scenario"
About President George W. Bush - Bill Maher once said :
"When we live in an age when an intercontinental ballistic missile can strike the U.S. in under five minutes, for him to have sat there in that classroom doing nothing for seven minutes is inexcusable."
the "real president" WAS doing something. In the bunker in the White House..like watching the plane hit the Pentagon.
Bush was simply put in office as a 'front man'....good (ugh) for photo-ops and such...and to cheerlead whatever war effort that would come. Remember, he was a cheerleader at Yale.
... what they really whispered in Bush's ear that morning.
Was it, "Mr. President, there's been an attack," or, "Mr. President, it's started."?
Either way, the stunned silence of the Chimp speaks volumes.
Personally, I would pick "Mr. President, it's started."
but that's just me.
"The plan is now in effect," works too.
I think Bush was in the dark regarding the events of 9/11. That's why after Andrew Card whispered in his ear about the second building being hit he had that funny "deer in the headlights" look on his face.
My guess is that he was out of the loop until he got back to the White House and was "briefed" by Cheney.
And we will all recall how Bush then stalled on any investigation. He finally gave in when several of the widows of husbands who died on 9/11 pushed for it on "60 Minutes" and on the cover of Newsweek. Then he gave a ridiculous budget of like $300,000 and appointed Kissinger to be the head of the commission. The widows put the kibosh on that post haste due to Kissinger's connections with various bin Laden "clients".
And the ultimate sign that Cheney was controlling his puppet Bush was when they were questioned and the word went out: "No recording devices, no testimony under oath, no pens, papers, media or families of 9/11 victims will be present and only one hour will be given AND that Bush and Cheney could only be questioned TOGETHER. (Keep that story straight!)
And Congress allowed this to stand!!!
Everything about the Bush Administration stinks from the day Bush/Cheney took office. And the whole world can smell it.
The whole world has been smelling it for a very long time and it's about time that the citizens of the U.S. of A. smelled it too.
Frickin' enough already! Appoint a special prosecutor with enough investigative and research staff to do the right thing. And in the meantime, slap Cheney and his minions with something to keep them in the country. I do believe that man is evil enough to have masterminded this tragedy and carried it out with his a$$kissers! Alot of them who are still positioned throughout the current government to continue poisoning everything they touch.
not to mention: not under oath
everyone here really ought to see "9/11: Press For Truth" when the smirking idiot hems and haws about how, to the "question" about why he and Cheney had to appear together...that they were glad to answer questions....I can't remember the exact words, but his demeanor while answering makes me want to heave a very heavy vase at the screen......it's like it was some kind of joke.
Many of us will die of old age before ANYONE in the Bush Admin is convicted of any wrongdoing. Obama is starting up the military tribunals again. No due process, no habeas corpus, no Posse Comitatus Act. We are no longer a country of laws as far as equal protection is concerned. Glad I wrote in Kucinich, will write him in again in 3 years.....
I don't like the precedent this protection legislators are giving to decisions made based on OLC opinions will set. If you get a couple of slimy lawyers to make the case supporting any action you want to take, then the OLC will be able to make it legal. Then, saying that the lawyers who drafted faulty opinions will not receive legal reprecussions further enables those that want to perform what would normally be considered criminal acts.
You are
rightcorrect. They can get lawyers to say anything they want. I don't think that the lawyers can be prosecuted for offering an opinion though. It is the job of the president to look at both sides of the argument and decide if he wants to use the OLC argument to justify his decision. The president has to decide if the argument given by the OLC is valid. If the argument is not ultimately valid and torture really is torture than the president has to pay the price of his actions for being stupid. He can't say that "this joker told me it was ok lalalallalallalala I can't hear you." The president could get some joker lawyer to say it is ok to shoot Bill Clinton because he feels like it. The president cannot use the lawyer opinion to not be prosecuted for shooting Clinton. That is just ridiculous.Many of you have much to say about "Nancy Pelosi". I know I've heard that name somewhere. Let me see.... Nancy Pelosi ? Pelosi ?
OH YES !! NOW I REMEMBER !! She's the lady who said, three years ago that the democrats would bring the Iraq War to an end if they swept into power. At that time - the war was about three years on...so if my math ability is in tact...uhh, the war has doubled in length since she made that promise even though the dems won the election AND the current president is a dem as well.
That is a boomer joke.
to the Rule of Law. It's illegal. Period. End of discussion. Prosecute now or be charged with obstrucing justice!
This is not a question that is still under debate. The law is clear on the matter, and we're signatory to the Geneva Conventions, regardless of whatever toilet paper is run past John Yoo's ass and waved under the media's nose.
And, frankly, I'm tired of seeing the Democrats play kick-the-can. Oh, don't worry, it'll all be different when we have the majority. Oh, wait, we meant a 2/3rds majority. Oh, wait, we meant a 2/3rds majority with a Democratic president.
What's next? Oh, a 2/3rds majority, a Democratic president, and a liberal majority in SCOTUS?
The only reason our troops would be endangered by releasing these photos is because we didn't exercise oversight, stop this cold, and hang the criminals out to dry.
Yankee Doodle went to town
A-riding on a pony,
Stuck a feather in his cap
And called it macaroni'.
Yankee Doodle keep it up,
Yankee Doodle dandy,
Mind the music and the step,
And with the girls be handy.
what you said! The time for action is NOW...
it would be nice if the jail were built by Halliburton. Then you wouldn't have to give him the chair. The shower would do the trick.
produced a deck of cards on the Bush Administration? I wonder who is the Ace and who is the Joker.
Just recall his speech in 2004 at the White House Correspondents Dinner: "Now where are those WMD's? Here? Nope. Not there! Well, maybe they're over here?...Nope, not there either." (Roar of laughter from the press in the audience).
Then there's him at the White House tap dancing before the media while waiting for someone to show up.
Yeah, he's the Joker.
The Ace? Rove, Wolfowitz, Perle, or some other Neocon puppet master.
The King of Spades? Cheney.
Queen of Spades? Condeleeeeeeeeza!!!
Gee, if the Japanese Imperial Army, the Khmer Rouge and the Spanish Inquisition had only had super-hot lawyers back then, there would have been no problem.
But Obama couldn't find the memos to release.
(Awaiting troll accusation in 5..4..3..)
The majority of the posts are STILL focused on Pelosi this and Pelosi that. Cheney sure must be enjoying the show so far.
Funny how easy it is for Cheney/Cia can do that isn't it?
that her fellow House Democrats create a House Select Committee to investigate the issues surroundsing the falsification of intelligence leading to the Iraq War. No need to wait for a Truth Commission. Let the House move on its own led by Speaker Pelosi. Wanna make a bet she will do so? I'll put five on no.
want to bet if there is no truth commission,Republican's/CIAeda will claim victory and that torture was the right thing to do and democrats never raise the subject again?
this up, she would have the House, with its strong Democratic majority, create its own Select Committee to investigate. The Senate did not wait for the House during Watergate and the crimes Nixon committed in that affair were truly a "third rate burglary" in comparison.
im not gonna hold my breath...bush and the gang seem to be above the law and i dont see eric holder making a case against our former fearless leader...even though it appears obvious that bush, cheney, rumsfield et al, broke international law and tortured people...im not holding my breath...if dennis kucinich was in charge i bet bush would be prosecuted...
a
You from Canada, Aye?
The American Traitor cheney has shot himself in the foot, he has pissed off the CIA,and most of his base, this clown attacks a reired four star General who SERVED with Distingtion and Honor and answerewd his countris call for and to Duty.
The American Traitor cheney used 5 draft deferments and had other plans (nothing included his Country). Lets put this TRAITOR and the Administration On Trial and offer Lethal injection or Hanging by the neck till dead.
Amazing how the Right defends COWARDICE and excepts Blindly the Character assination of one of Americas Heroes (though he did lie under orders)Still he did not betray his Country.
Trial for Treason for cheney the Amerucan Traitor and the Talking Monkey bush.
Using the banal euphemism 'enhanced interrogation' does not change the horrific, monstrous reality of torture.
It's somewhat comforting to know that the real story is beginning to come out at long last -- but there's one nagging question which continues to linger in my mind...
For the love of all that's sacred, why did it take the mainstream media and the American public so (bleep)ing long to wake up and smell the blasted Starbucks?!?!?!? Where were all of these people when the Downing Street Memos came out -- underneath a rock? Some of us have been saying all along that the Bush administration was lying to the American people about what was really going on -- and for our pains, we were labeled unpatriotic or worse. If this story doesn't vindicate us to at least some extent, then I will feel myself forced to make the irrevocable conclusion that this country has not merely lost its ethical compass -- it has deliberately smashed it and thrown it away.
Why is it, after all that has happened, that pretend journalists continue to pretend that it would be shocking if George W. Bush lied?
Quick, smelling salts for Sanchez, he's going to faint because someone suggested that Bush might have fibbed. Perish the thought.
The only time I ever see Sanchez (or any of the TV news people) is in short clips on C&L (and other websites). They're enough to convince me I need to see less Sanchez, not more.
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