Reality Check on Shona Holmes: Holmes' "Brain Tumour" was Actually a Rathke's Cleft Cyst on Her Pituitary Gland
By Heather Monday Jul 27, 2009 7:30am
Well what do you know. It looks like there may be some problems with Sen. Mitch McConnell's favorite Canadian health care horror story. h/t The Political Carnival
33.7 million Canadians are not Shona Holmes:
To my American friends: I sincerely hope you’re not taken in by the GOP propaganda featuring Canadian Shona Holmes trashing our system of universal healthcare. The problem is both that Ms. Holmes and her Republican masters misrepresented her condition and that the tactic itself is reprehensible. The GOP can’t produce any logical argument against a system that is entrenched in every Western society except yours, so they resort to fear-mongering and lies, claiming that one Canadian’s skewed view trumps the experiences and beliefs of the rest of us.
Holmes has become the darling of conservatives and the stop-public-health-care movement in the United States. She's testified before Congress, been on Fox TV as well as CNN, and her story is retold on hundreds of right wing blogs. She's now doing a nasty TV ad for Patients United Now, a Republican-led group opposed to Obama's reforms. You can see the ad at www.patientsunitednow.com. The group is spending almost $2 million on it to target politicians in Washington.
For a person living with cancer, the idea that someone's care could be unreasonably delayed is truly scary. It also doesn't reflect the experience I've had or the experiences that have been shared with me by so many other patients. Even CNN interviewed Doug Wright, a more typical patient in Toronto who is receiving very speedy treatment for his cancer.
Still, I found Holmes tale both compelling and troubling. So I decided to check a little further. On the Mayo Clinic's website, Shona Holmes is a success story. But it's somewhat different story than all the headlines might have implied. Holmes' "brain tumour" was actually a Rathke's Cleft Cyst on her pituitary gland. To quote an American source, the John Wayne Cancer Center, "Rathke's Cleft Cysts are not true tumors or neoplasms; instead they are benign cysts."
There's no doubt Holmes had a problem that needed treatment, and she was given appointments with the appropriate specialists in Ontario. She chose not to wait the few months to see them. But it's a far cry from the life-or-death picture portrayed by Holmes on the TV ads or by McConnell in his attacks.
That nothing they could do could surprize me any more.
But then they go and do or say something more stupid then the day before.
But lying is not a surprize comming from republicans. It is quite expected. Not little white lies like, no your not to fat, or that looks good. But big bold faced lies. The problem is they don't care if you know they are lying or no. They know the 20% of their moron base will hear only what they want to hear.
republicanism is a mental illness!
Project,
Normally I shy away from your appropriation of Michael Savage's eliminationist rhetoric - but on this issue of healthcare (Terry Schiavo, Harry & Louise, Waterloo-analogies, etc...) I would be inclined to feel anyone who doesn't see these insurance-salesmen in sheep's clothing as the snake oil salesmen they are is either terminally stupid or mentally ill.
ANYONE who doesn't support universal health care in the US does not speak for me, and does not represent me--Democrats and Republicants alike.
Health care reform has devolved into a bipartisan whinefest. If the current crop of Corporatist-driven politicians don't get past their cranial-rectal inversion disorder, they will inevitably push We the People to revolt. With the advent of the Internet, our revolt may manifest as a bloodless revolution, but they certainly shouldn't count on that.
I personally would pay money so that Dana Bash would have her chin fixed. That thing bugs me to no end.
Why aren't there tons of Canadians all over our news trying to talk us out of it? Why just this one person, who lied about her condition? Where are the Brits? French? Germans? What about the Cubans? Surely all of the cuban refugees in Florida have some disparaging remarks about Cuba that we can use as propaganda. How about returning ex-pats from the aforementioned countries?
I would say that the sheer lack of negative commentary from those countries is proof in itself that the Rethugs are being less than genuine.
Never underestimate the level of lies and fabrication and manipulation the U.S. mainstream media is capable of.
This must be the only nation you would call "free" in which the for-profit corporate news media doesn't simply report the news, it fabricates them, filters them through their corporate lens, and feeds them to a more-than-eager-to-believe mainstream public.
Americans live in a perpetual state of media haze that prevents them to see the issues from a perspective other than that of Big Business, while the rest of the world has much more clarity of information, looking from the outside in and wondering just what in the hell is wrong with us.
...we believe that your media is a joke and no matter what we would say, you would have your media (such as FOX trying to discredit it).
But really, we don't care! We have full healthcare. It's not perfect but we have it FREE. I could tell you a story that happened to me but it would be too long. Just quickly: my daughter was born 10 weeks pre-mature in a remote area. Her chances of survival were 1 out of 10. They flew in the prime minister's airplane (which also serves as an ambulance) from Quebec city to the closest airport in the place I was living, flew her back to Quebec city and had a team of nurse around her 24/7 for seven weeks.
The final bill? ZERO!!!
As a Canadian, and an Ontario Resident I am deeply offended by the American Media, CNN, Fox News, The Republican Party and yes the Patients United.Org spreading false lies of the Canadian Healthcare system.
We are not third world country but value the healthcare of our citizens over guns, corporate welfare, wars ...yes we are Canadian. Yet the American lobby groups prefer the status quo that allow Healthcare providers to make an obscene amount of money while U.S citizens go bankrupt and worse die.
This woman needs a doctor and clearly a psychiatrist.
What bothers me the most is that she is lying...95% of the time our Heathcare system is great. There are occasional problems...but the doctors we have here are professional, courteous and most of all patient oriented. I live in Toronto, my elderly father has had 5 doctors...most of them choose to go to the US to make more money...NO SURPRISE.
Shona has not right to spread these lies and I will be writing my government today that if she refuses to retract these lies than she has no entitlement to recovery of out of Canada healthcare expenses. I will be writing to the Minister of Health to deny payment of American Treatment. She is a traitor to this country and if she wants to move to the United States....Than go..I will stay in Canada...where the quality of life is better...low crime and universal healthcare...one of the best in the World..
My advice to my American friends is use common sense and don't listen to these liars and these republican bozos who had 10 years to do something and all they did was reward their wall street corrupt executives with obscene bonuses and the worst recession since the great depression...
Educate yourself and talk to Canadian...I had an MRI in about a week...I had a bone density in about one week..I am a firm believer in preventive medicine, naturopathy, homeopathy methodologies and try to stay away from Pharmaceutical companie drugs who believe a pill will solve problems...Not True...heathy foods, vegetable...zero pop.....And American can become skinny and healthy again..
They know they can lie because news repeaters like Ms. Bash-turd won't call them on it. My only question is, was this incredibly bad reporting or did Ms. Bash know she was lying about it being a brain tumor. A simple one minute Google search will show the truth about the "Brain Tumor" in question.
Can Ms. Bash really be that incompetent? And don't they have editors at CNN that do at least BASIC fact checking on stories like these? Or are they just presenting a story in a way that will help some of their health care related sponsors keep their strangle hold on the health care system in this country? (Hey the PR department at AstraZeneca couldn't have spun the story any better themselves!)
Oh one last thing, Ms. Bash, when you are done with it, please give Jay Leno his chin back. He'll need it back before he goes back on the air in September.
Here's some facts...
Shona Holmes...
a) never had a life threatening tumor. She had a cyst that wasn't life threatening
b) Ms Holmes visit to the mayo clinic was, in fact, fully covered financially by...yep, you guessed it, the Canadian Health system!
c) the $90,000 she was given by Canada to go to the Mayo clinic is impossible for all but the most wealthy Americans. It is totally impossible for over 40 million Americans with no health care...something that does not exist in Canada!
Try and find those facts on the Mayo Clinic website...or any other corporate lackey website (eg: Fox News, etc)
It ain't there. What a surprise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o8vsU0Dw-4
The canadian system may not be perfect but at the end of the day there are far more horror stories of the american system than the canadian one.
about the waiting...
later is still better than never.
because she didn't have a "brain tumour" ... what a whore! These repugs and their sycophants are worse all the time. Pathetic prostitutes for ca$h... what a bunch of LOSERS!!
Knowing a tumor from a cyst is hard for people who don't even know their head from their a$$.
Thanks for the laughs... yeah, I'm not being hard enough on 'em though... seriously, the behavior is definitely that of a whore! My guess is we'll find out that she's being paid a big sum to strut the GOP/repug partyline. These efftards do and say anything for the almighty buck. Funny too that many of them are xtians who don't seem to recall that commandment about not having any idols before their God. He don't like it!
...champion Creationism to stand a chance in a primary, if they knew the difference between a tumor and a cyst I'd be surprised.
Why don't they talk about the 40% of Americans who wait forever to see specialists because of denied claims or lack of insurance?
of those 40% who are waiting 'forever' --in my case, to get the MRI I need to find out why I have chronic back pain.
I'd also like to find out what, if anything, I can do to address my tinitus (online research tells me a cure is not likely--but can I trust those resources?).
Oh, and add to those issues the fact that I'm an unemployed teacher facing homelessness if I don't get a position in the next two weeks.
If I had to COBRA my insurance, that would be an addition $600/mo I cannot afford.
Yes, life in the good ol' US of A is SOOOOOOOO good!
Not.
Always keep in mind that the Canadians spend about 9% of their GDP on healthcare. The U.S. spends about 17%.
So...9% and wait times for non-critical care vs. 17% and few waits for care if you have the money.
In Canada everyone's covered, no one loses their home or goes bankrupt due to medical bills, and they spend about half what we spend.
In addition to this whopper I find it interesting that today's meme is now health insurance reform "can't be done without Republicans." This is obviously a ploy to make sure we get all the useless Rep/Blue Dog riders and waterdowns into whatever bill finally makes it.
Then they'll vote against that.
Democrats, write your own bill. Vote for your own bill. You've got a "super-majority" (caveats pre-noted), you DO NOT NEED REPUBLICANS or Blue Dogs. C'mon President Obama, give us YOUR bill.
Different Anonymous, you're absoluttely right; the core of the Rethug/DINOs strategy is to make a total mashup of the bill, then vote against it after they've destroyed it.
I'm ashamed to have Evan F****** Bayh as one of my senators; at least Lugar has some backbone ethically.
To the Shona Holmes story, it seems fatboy Karl's got his mitts all over this thing too. No surprise Mitch is lying--after all, his lips are moving.
It's like you're merely reporting what people are telling you instead of actually reading into it to see if the story has validity. No wonder Old Media is beginning its descent into the wayside of actual news reporting, while ripping into the Huffington Post bloggers of the world who get asked a question during a presidential press conference.
Same to you Lou Dobbs. Stay classy.
I cringe to think what even the New Media will morph into in 50 years to be honest.
Like Marge said to Homer in an episode set in the future, "Fox changed so gradually into hardcore nudity, I never noticed."
O'Rally's show? He has more semi=porno on than any other show -- in the name of protecting all of us from pornographers....pffft!
But at least then there might be a new wave of young people pushing for what we're pushing for right now. That gives me some comfort.
I mean, I understand that the news media wants to present an unbiased image to not step on anyone's toes, but doesn't that ruin the whole point of the media? They're supposed to step on toes, turn over rocks, and venture into dangerous waters to find the truth, and have the common sense and courage to say "Well, this is indeed a loathsome idea. Everyone must know!"
You don't need a left or right-wing bias, just a bias against stupidity, corruption and all of that bad stuff.
I suspected there had to be a back story to her tale, some reason they were willing to make her wait. I always like it when Republicans say that foreign leaders come to the US for treatment. I didn't realize the US was supposed to just cater to the rich?
about her problem was not cancerous but a cyst. I have to wonder who would lend this woman $100,000 to have it removed. Did she deceive her friends and relatives? Is she being paaid by the health care industry to shill for them? There are more questions she should be subjected to. Did she lie to congress? Can she be charged with perjury?
I grew up in Canada (my mother's Canadian) and we never had a probably with health care. In fact, my parents both had surgical procedures in the past 4 years, without any delay. They now live in Vegas, having moved from from Vancouver, British Columbia, for the weather. And because they're eligible for Medicare, there's no problem with coverage.
Canadian health care is a pretty good deal.
like where all we have to do is sit in front of computers 24/7 our entire lives and it sprays a fine mist (pure opium or something) to help people feel "beautiful".
what Sammy Joe Wurzelbacher is to overtaxed plumbers?
Is she being paid to be a shill for the Republicans? Her 15 minutes of fame? Is she an attention seeker?
I'd really like to know.
I am sure she charges for those. Also the Mayo Clinic (whose CEO some people in this site were fawning over) used her case in some of their brochures/ads, I am sure she got a cut off that or at the very least she got a reduced bill from the exposure. In fact the original mayo misrepresentation of her case (a non life threatening cyst vs. the lie that it was a death-causing tumor) is what propelled her into the spotlight in the first place.
Frankly she (and the Mayo Clinic) managed to pretty much insult the whole Canadian healthcare establishment. I sure do hope Canadian doctors refuse to treat her in the future. They can claim that her future conditions are so outside of their scope of expertise that she would better off being treated in the US, and good luck footing the bill sans subsidy for publicity stunts.
"No one asked if my mother had insurance or ran a credit check to ensure she could afford to stay alive."
This is a great way to describe part of the problem with insurance companies.
The dems should use this.
The Repugs are likely paying her medical bill.
How can any educated person believe any more total bullshit and lies always puked out by the untrustworthy Reslugs?? These ignorant morons probably still put their mark on things for their signature.
A brain cyst might explain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4WUlNSx_Wk
Shame on this woman for attempting to destroy America's chances for recovery from a system that is killing us.
This woman is helping kill Americans with her willingness to spread propaganda. She has blood on her hands; I hope she's proud of herself.
I saw that ad featuring her and it turned my stomach. My instincts told me she was not telling the truth.
I sent a blistering email to Patients United Now that very evening. Of course they didn't respond.
We are dealing with evil people in this fight.
I sure hope that John Amato and team have a strategy in place, in case meaningful reform is defeated. It will require working with all progressive outlets. I know this is just a blog, but together with all other blogs and outlets, we have teeth that are ready to bite.
maybe we could start up our own Bloggers Health cooperative...?
send the blistering e-mails to Congress. And include ALL the true life stories you can! We are getting screwed royaly on healthcare. Let the bastards know we know it!
I still can't believe that the average american would put their health into the hands of the same people who screw you over when you get in a fender bender. Same folks same methods - take your money and then work hard to decline your claims/raise your premiums.
The canadian system is not socialized medicine just collective insurance. Nothing more nothing less.
One example does not make a case - I have a friend whose wife was diagnosed with an actual brain tumour. The canadian and american doctors deemed it inoperable. She found a surgeon in Hong Kong who believed it could be operated on and did so successfully. My friend who is a doctor himself is not critical of our system - he realizes that in certain cases there are a limited number of specialist worldwide.
Comparing having to wait a few months to have a non-life threatening BENIGN cyst removed to my friend Jerry's still waiting for his heart operation over a year after they decided it was neccessary I'd have to go with the Canadian system!!! Three minor heart attacks and a minor stroke this spring/early summer WAITING for the American medical system to preform heart surgery that THEY deemed neccessary A YEAR AGO!!
My father was diagnosed with terminal cancer one Friday several months ago. Before he could start with chemo, he needed an MRI. He was put in a priority queue and received the MRI the following Monday morning.
My father lives in Toronto.
I know this is just anecdotal information, but that's all Ms. Holmes has going for her as well.
As I posted a few weeks back, my sister just passed away in April of this year.
She found a lump on her throat in January, she had no insurance and had to go to the Public Health Clinic. There are only two doctors for the adult part of the clinic, and the one she saw was a HOSTILE ZOMBIE. This is widely known, but she took the appt. with him because she was petrified. He sneered at her, and said you need to get a CAT scan. THEN HE LEFT THE ROOM........she was left alone, he didn't write her a subscription to go get it done, which is required, nor did he return to the examining room. She fled from the clinic in tears.
She was so traumatized that she called the next day to schedule with the "GOOD DOCTOR".....AND WAITED A MONTH TO SEE HIM. The rest is just a big pile of shit......excuse me, but her last few months were a nightmare.
I think we need to rally our Canadian Friends, and shed some truth on the matter. It's ironic, but the people who took her to that appointment on that day were friends from CANADA. We live on the Gulf in Florida, and they winter here.
My warmest regards to you and your father. May he soon enjoy good health.
that I have known since she was a child just died a horrendous tragic death.
After just FOUR DAYS on life support, the hospital proclaimed her brain dead and announced their intent to unplug her from life support. They wanted her organs to be donated, her family wanted three more days to deal with everything. The hospital, ORMC in Orlando, FL, refused.
They called the family at 9 on a Saturday morning and gave them an hour and a half to get there before they pulled the plug. They had the police there in case the family 'acted up'.
Want to guess whether she had insurance?
oh my god.
Thanks for your good wishes.
I'm a dual citizen (U.S./Canadian) currently living in Canada. I've been American all my life and Canadian for the past decade. While there's a lot I appreciate about the States, I'm very glad my elderly parents don't live there.
Very, very sorry for your loss.
My sister (Vancouver) started getting migraines and she got an MRI right away. They found it was a sinus problem, gave her penicillin, she feels better already. Total time: a few days. Total cost: $0.
I have a 37mm ovoid astrocytoma on my hypothalamus. This is round #2 - last time the tumor was 48mm.
Thanks to the wonderful American health care system, I had 7 weeks of daily x-knife radiation at $1600 a day the bill was $56000. My portion was a mere 20%, but with that - specialist services, blood work, brain surgery, hospital stays, and everything else - I was taken to the financial cleaners.
I had to declare bankruptcy.
I showed up in court, HUMILIATED. I sat in the gallery watching person after person going up and being raked over the financial coals - I was embarrassed for them, I knew what they were going through and I dreaded my turn. When I sat at the table next to my lawyer and was asked WHY I was declaring bankruptcy I said "I'm a cancer patient"... the judge said "say no more" banged his gavel on the table and I was done - no coal raking, nothing. Just a wish for my speedy recovery.
How pathetic is that?
in public for something that was completely out of your scope of responsibility, it is what passes for "compassion" nowadays among the conservative sector of our society.
In the US, corporate entitlement to profit seems to be one of the few rights observed/protected, because clearly... there does not seem to be a similar observance regarding the right of people to have healthcare provided.
It's sad when the only answer our society to the ravages, physical and economic, of a disease that doesn't care whether you can afford to have it or not, is to "allow" a person to file bankruptcy due to the out of control costs of securing the treatment one needs for basic survival.
Your judge was trying to be a good guy but nobody should ever have to lose all because they got sick. This kind of thing makes this Holmes woman even more disgusting.
I hope for your speedy recovery and that your treatment is mild.
That's sad. Imagine being financially ruined by a disease. I couldn't imagine. I am sorry for you.
Please, move to Canada, we have the room, the people are nice and oh... We won't kill you for a dollar. We promise.
That was in April. He immediately made an appointment with a specialist for me to be given some "urgent" tests. When I got the letter confirming the appointment it was for the middle of October.
As the date approached, I got another letter saying the appointment had been rescheduled to Mid November.
After seven months of waiting, worrying about what was going on in the depths of my digestive system, I finally had the tests and there was no cancer but the anemia and other symptoms persist to this day and still, nobody has been able to explain them and we've pretty much reached the limits of my coverage.
This woman is doing nothing but whoring for the American health care industry and the Republican/Blue Dog coalition. Especially now that we know she... and they... are lying about her condition.
from the campaign of lies and misrepresentation by the HMO crow in this country. They claim with a straight face how no one has to wait for anything, where in reality... any good specialist will have huge waiting times for consult, even in life and death scenarios.
It is not just the fact that they can lie so brazenly, but also how they can with a straight face insult other countries' systems and their professionals in order to defend this putrid systems, that showcases the lack of anything resembling humanity and decency by this vermin.
Try getting a liver when Larry Hagman's ready for yet another one.
"WHEN PEOPLE SHOW YOU WHO THEY ARE, BELIEVE THEM."
The GOP have been showing us who they are - lying, cheating, steaing, immoral, greedy, power-hungry, semi-literate racists. I say it's long past time to still be surprised when they act on who they really are.
Time to call them on their bullshit, instead of playing their games, and time move on without them.
.
/
is the psycholgical condition most commonly found in rabid conservatives and known by the acronym: ISAB1st, or, I Should Always Be First.
The most prominent symptoms are a misplaced sense of entitlement, in which the patient displays and arrogant determination to precede all others just because they believe they should always go first and get the best.
This, unfortunately, is combined with a complete lack of empathy for any damage suffered by anyone they push aside in their need to always be at the head of the line.
Also, the compulsive need to do anything, including lie, cheat, steal, publicly humiliate themselves, in order to make sure they get their way.
And finally, in order to keep getting the preferential treatment they believe they should have; they also expend a great deal of energy rationalizing why they have been entitled in the past, thus demonstrating, at least to themselves, why this preferential treatment should be the norm for them.
They find the idea that they should be in line behind anyone else to be incomprehensible.
Sounds like all of the CEO's and Repugs (and some Dems, too) involved in our national life. I haven't notice any Congress-critter offering to forgo his/her taxpayer provided health care until Every American has good coverage.
We Need Single-Payer Now!
Wow. That is how Americans are viewed on the whole. You may have hit the nail on the head. I realize now it's the asshole amongst you that make you into this stereotype.
Like my sister overheard in England: an American girl demanding instant and best service.
American chick: But I AM AN AMERICAN.
British guy: That must be nice for you. (ignore)
Oh yes, these stories precede you.
This Canadian chick has the same problem. Not because she is Canadian, because she's an asshole, just like the American chick above.
(sarcasm)I don't know about you but I would rather have what treatment I get and when decided by a health insurance company bureaucrat rather than a government bureaucrat.(/sarcasm)
I'd like to ask some of these tools "Do ya know any seniors who have had to wait on Medicare? Do ya, punk?"
After all, they ain't gonna' vote on anything health care related until after the summer break. Its not that important and more than likely, after listening to some people here, it will be DOA anyway or it will be something watered down so as to be pleasing to the GOP and Big Health Corporations. Its not like Congress gives two pshhts whether any more people lose their health care or are thrown into bankruptcy is it? They don't care, why should I? Oh yeah, I'm a Human Being and I care about what happens to other human beings. Congress doesn't care but I do and you know what, I vote for whoever sits in Congress. Wake up Congress or retire or better yet, PULL A PALIN!
Ms. Holmes has become unpopular, sadly according the last story I wrote, much to the dismay of a couple with the same last name in the town.
Medical issues which are life threatening or emergency are given the highest priority here. Waiting is for electives and while inconvenient, is a fair trade-off for the positives in the system.
There are, of course, times when bad things occur. That is generally a product of the doctor, a misdiagnoses or a communication failure, not the method by which the system is funded.
UHC is not a problem in itself. In Canada's case, it's underfunding.
The majority of us recognize that the system doesn't work as well as it should, yet most of us would much prefer the public system.
In the times I've been in emergency, I've not had to wait the absurd times the conservatives 'report', not even close. I choose my own doctor who, if I called, would see me within the hour. He can offer me care without having to check with the insurance company first and without having me wait for him to fill out paper work from the previous patient. He decides, or recommends, the best course of treatment, not the government. If he orders a procedure, it gets done, it does not need bureaucratic approval nor approval from any insurance company.
Here in Canada, health care is considered a basic human right, not a commodity.
As a Canadian I don't really understand how this furthers the debate in the States.
One could make the argument that since a Rathke's Cleft Cyst exists from birth and can grow into a condition that needs to be treated, if she was an American with private insurance, the American insurance company could deny her treatment based on a pre-existing condition or cancel her altogether.
Secondly, it's all well and good that she could come up with $100,000, come to the States and get personalized treatment from Mayo, but most Americans certainly can't afford that and are subject to the whims of their insurance company. If this had been a real brain tumour SHE wouldn't have been able to afford treatment, because it would have cost several hundred thousands of dollars in removal, chemo and follow up testing.
Finally, the big dirty secret that the American insurance companies never talk about are THEIR wait times. While in Canada they are accessible on any website, they seem to be closely guarded secrets in the States, but every American I have talked to has had to endure them. Business Week had a story about them back in 2007: http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/co...
She was one lucky patient. She had a condition that was fairly easily treatable and had the means to treat it, but it's hard to believe that people won't realize that many Americans will have chronic and expensive conditions and won't have the means to treat them. The choice these people are telling you that you have and we don't simply isn't there.
When will we see a retraction piece from CNN - Corporate Not News- girl, Dana Bash? Probably never. Yet, we can still bash her reporting here for a very long time.
Love to talk, Dana. Still recycling Repub propaganda. I'm so sorry. Well, must be going. See you around the Beltway, Sweetie. Give me a call when there's something new.
Not!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li5nMsXg1Lk
i don't believe the canadian system is truly represented. having said that who said that reforming of u.s. healthCare insurance absolutely equates to the canadian healthCare system? this is another negative linguistic framing strategy that doesn't bare fruit. opposition to healthcare reform
love to speak of standing in line/waiting for treatment(s). that happens in the states as well more often in UNDERserved areas. many regions of the u.s. like canada are UNDERserved with a need for physicians and medical services. my understanding canadians would never go to a system like in the u.s.
That's because its not a system. It's a criminal organiazation that kill people for money.
They are TRYING to get us to bend and allow a 'Tiered' system for those that are rich here in Canada. Already its being met with intense resistance to allow the rich to buy access or such. elective Surgery notwithstanding. You want to suck the fat out of your but and stretch your face over the back of your neck, then power to you you rich piece of freak.
This woman spent $100,000 to get a non life-threatening benign growth removed instead of waiting a few months and getting it done for free.
This woman is not an example of a malfunctioning health care system. This woman is an example of a stupidity.
We only really have her word that she was told she had to wait 4 to 6 months. If she lied about the nature of her illness, why do we believe the window dressing? For all we know it could have been 4 - 6 weeks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/world/asia/...
China plans universal health care
By Edward Wong
Published: Thursday, January 22, 2009
BEIJING — China announced that it intended to spend $123 billion by 2011 to establish universal health care for the country's 1.3 billion people.
The plan was passed Wednesday at a session of the State Council, the Chinese cabinet. Prime Minister Wen Jiabao presided.
Xinhua, the state news agency, said the authorities would "take measures within three years to provide basic medical security to all Chinese in urban and rural areas, improve the quality of medical services and make medical services more accessible and affordable for ordinary people."
Providing universal health care is seen by some economists as a way to stimulate domestic spending during the current economic downturn. The Chinese have a high savings rate, and one of the reasons usually cited is their concern about possible medical expenses.
Bai Zhongen, chairman of the economics department at Tsinghua University's School of Economics and Management in Beijing, said that establishing universal health care with government-financed insurance would increase general consumer spending. He said the school did a survey in 2007 about the effect of rural health insurance on consumer behavior and "found that in government-sponsored health insurance areas, people are spending more."
The government already gives many people a small subsidy to help pay for health care, but more government financing for individual health care would strengthen the economy, Bai said.
Xinhua reported that the plan approved Wednesday would aim to provide some form of medical insurance for 90 percent of the population by 2011. Each person covered by the system would receive an annual subsidy of 120 yuan, or more than $17, starting in 2010. Medicine would also be covered by the insurance, and the government would begin a system of producing and distributing necessary drugs this year.
The plan also aims to improve health centers in rural and remote areas as well as equalize health services between urban and rural areas, Xinhua reported. Furthermore, the government would begin this year to reform the operations of public hospitals.
"Growing public criticism of soaring medical fees, a lack of access to affordable medical services, poor doctor-patient relationship and low medical insurance coverage compelled the government to launch the new round of reforms," Xinhua reported.
Even China beats america. My God.
Literally, Americans would rather be told their health care is great, when in truth every other country (Congo and Zimbabwe next perhaps??!) Cuba, Venezuela and almost ANY OTHER NATION has better health care.
/
Korea's is not perfect, but after reading this thread, it's far far better than what you have.
Aside: In 1960 the average Korean family made $100 US a year. And you still don't have healthcare: didn't in 1960 and don't now.
help me out i don't get it." korea is not perfect but after reading this thread, it's far better than what you have." i need more info.
It was the possessive: Korea's healthcare. I'm saying it looks like Korea has a healthcare plan that might be better than what you're getting in the U$A, even after rising from the ashes of the Korean war, and everyone being dirt poor.
And how rich is America?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBXmxqYcI0Q
I have posted other comments about this crap, I am a Canadian and I have had many medical problems over the years, I am a Diabetic, I have had open heart surgery and been in and out of hospitals many many times, I have never ever had a problem with the care that I received here, The quality is amazing I have seen a doctor that was offered his own wing in Boston because of his reputation, I have never been denied care and I am very proud of what Canada does in the way of medical advances and treatments.If you want to compare horror stories with the U.S. Canada doesn't even come close to the crap that people have to deal with down there.You may have to wait? that's it? well even that argument holds no water because I have never had to wait for anything when it came to medical treatment. This is scare tactics at it's worse...I hope my American cousins can counter this attack by big business and stick to doing the right thing. Health for everyone. Good luck.
Is it juuuuust me...or does she look a bit like teh Coultergheist?
that I've made here & on other blogs...hope no one minds.
I'm growing weary of posting on blog after blog about my own, and many other Canadians' experience with our single-payer/Universal Healthcare (call it what you will) and how I would never trade it for anything else anywhere…only to hear an increasing amount of misinformation being tossed about for the incurious to gobble up.
I think it's a great mix of things (nothing is so simple), but the one thing I hear throughout all of the discussions & arguments about healthcare reform in the U.S., is just plain 'fear'. Fear of something new; fear of admitting that the age-old 'American' system just doesn't work; fear of labels...labels that the self-serving pocket-liners have been feeding the afraid for generations.
Time to realize that you do not live within this superior bubble that will 'right itself' given enough time...time is up...it's never going to happen. Those rich & powerful that the American populace at-large seem to be so enamoured with are never going to allow the everyday people to have any rights or privileges other than what they dictate.
Sounds extreme...well, no...I'm just amazed over & over at how the people of the U.S. continue to allow themselves to be manipulated.
I live in a country amongst people who are very much like you.
As far as healthcare goes...I never take my wallet when I go to my doctor (whom I chose & when I chose to have a different one...no problem), nor to the hospital, nor to the walk-in clinic.
There is no 'middle man'...I cannot even fathom having someone in a corporation somewhere having 'any say' as to my personal healthcare!
In my 58 years, I have had numerous procedures, tests, surgeries, physicals & even treatment for lymphoma. I have never experienced an unreasonable wait time, I have always had the best of care, by doctors & nurses, in the best & most up to date hospitals. When I was diagnosed with lymphoma just two years ago, I had consultations, tests and therapy all within two months of said diagnosis...yes, all done within two months...and luckily clear to this day.
My experience is not unusual...it is the norm here.
Tell me about the stories you hear...use your head...anyone anywhere can come up with exceptions to any rule...we're dealing with humans...never will there be perfection...there will always be some dissatisfied people.
But the distance between what I have available to me here & what you put up with is extreme...and even now you are being denied the option of even talking about a system that has been working here for generations.
Tommy Douglas was the founder of our healthcare system...he, of course, met with great opposition when he put his ideas forward decades ago.
Well, Tommy Douglas, in this decade, has been declared the 'Greatest Canadian' by the people of Canada. Yes, he beat out Wayne Gretzky, Terry Fox, Pierre Trudeau & Alexander Graham Bell!
The main reason...his introduction of our healthcare system.
I write all of this because I am so sad that one of the great countries doesn't have what is so within their power to institute & that is to look after their own people for their most basic needs...I fear that it will never happen.
not as great as advertised
I find it very ironic that the right wing's fictional hero Jack Bauers is played by none other than Tommy Douglas's grandson Keifer Sutherland...........
Tricky Dicky Nixon actually tried to get Tommy Douglas deported while visiting family in LA. The agents ran into a meak looking barbed wire eating wolerine..........
terrific points paddy! I had known about Keifer & Tommy being related, but really never thought about it afterwards.
As for the attempt at deportation by Dick(head) Nixon...I had no idea! Very apt description of Tommy Douglas...thanks!!
... under the impression that repugs and Democrats will never agree on anything about health care, unless they start talking about the same thing.
Democrats are talking about a way to reimburse or pay for medical care.
Repugs are talking about how bad the service is they get from doctors and how long waiting lines are and some service is not available in Canada.
I would like to point those to a video i posted to my site about service many can expect in the US and what Hannity - the 3x school drop-out - has to say about Canada (He has on some clown - totally uncredible. http://www.foxnews-follies.com
benign pituitary tumors in most cases are not emergencies. In most cases it's safer not to operate instead to just treat with hormones the tumor is blocking.
ok. so here is how the private for profit insurance treated me
referral for MRI of pituatary gland - DENIED BY INSURANCE
i pay out of pocket 2,100. diagnosis is hypopituitarism/benign tumor
referral for pituitary stimulation test to see if tumor is causing growth hormone deficiency- DENIED BY INSURANCE
I pay 1,200 out of pocket for the test. diagnosis- it is causing GH deficiency.
so i needed to take hormone replacements for a 3 hormones the tumor was causing deficiency in. to my surprise the INS company covered some of the bills but i still had to pay $200 a month.
was on hormone replacments for 6 mos then got a letter for my INS company that i was no longer being covered for one of the medications.
now it's $400 bucks a month im out of pocket .
this is what for profit health care does.
Wow. As a Canadian, that would be grounds for taking the hospital by force and demanding care at gunpoint. The response being
: "You kill me, I kill you."
That's exactly the life and death crap the insurance companies play.
I'm sorry for what has happened. Please, move up north, marry a nice Canadian and stop worrying about the 'vicious evil empire' of America.
...will you marry me?
I don't even care what gender you are...
The hospitals and doctors aren't really concerned which insurance is paying them, so long as they get paid. From that standpoint, the US health care would not change, the doctors would still get paid. What would change is paying for the insurers profit, advertising and billion dollar bonuses. There is no reason to believe that the health care would get worse if it went from many insurers to just one. The health care providers are still getting paid, but the health care consumer would now be paying less as they are not paying for those profits and advertising and lobbying. Same health care for less. Why do people wish to pay more than they have to?
All in all, health care would improve since the providers can now concentrate on providing the care and not have to worry about whether it's covered, how much, etc.
When all is said and done. Better health care at less cost. I not sure why there even needs to be a debate about that.
beacuse he has no health insurance-and the costs of chemo and radiation would criple his family's finaces-He wants to be able to send his kids to college, and is keeping his cancer a secret from his family.
Tragic!!
I don't have health coverage either- and if I get some major illness like cancer, I can't afford treatment. You'd be shocked how many Americans are out there with major illnesses who have accepted the fact they are the walking dead- because help is out of their reach.....
I can't imagine what people with HIV do if they can't afford the meds...
reimbursed by the Canadian government. Sorry I can't give a cite right now. I wonder if she did indeed have to come up with the cash upfront or if the Mayo Clinic understands that the Canadian government is good for it.
Actually she is suing OHIP (The Ontario Health Ministry) for reimbursement. It hasn't been settled. Most Canadians don't believe a queue jumper could be reimbursed.
If this happened (really) in Canada people would be yelling to the high heavens about it. I heard nothing about it except from American 'Media'.
I mean one guy got Tazed and killed at an airport and a Public Inquiry has been formed and the evidence collected will be used at the trial of the Cops who tazed him.
If the public system (police, fire, health) has someone fall through the cracks (killed due to inadequate care, killed by cop-cattle-prods) there is an inquiry.
You should see the dirt the Air India Inquiry found about CSIS and CIA negligence (how ironic it happens so often) or Amar Arar who was tortured while in US custody.
We take this shit seriously.
I had an ACTUAL brain tumour here in Canada, and of course you panic when you hear that you have something strange growing in your head. For those who are curious, it was a Subependymoma which grew to golfball size in the lateral ventricals. But for me, the Canadian medical system worked wonderfully. As it usually does. I got the thing removed and stayed in hospital 2 months to relearn how to walk after the trauma of neurosurgery. I am one of a million success stories. Trust Republicans to find one of the rare Canadians who put herself first, without thinking about others who may need treatment sooner. The fact is, her condition didn't need urgent treatment.
If you were American, odds are you'd be dead by now...
had hypocondriac fame whore written all over it. Yet when the ad came out we didn't see one interview with the clinic doctors clarifying her condition. She-said-she-had-a-brain-tumor so it must be true.
I find it extremely upsetting that Mayo clinic was just as willing to lie by omission when it served its purposes as the insurance industry. WTF.
That socialist paradise in the north is looking better by the day.
I have been Canadian all my life and im hard pressed to think of anyone i know who has suffered due to Canadas health care. They do take a triage approach in our system. Those in dire need go to the front of the line and Canucks accept that for what it is. They did shut down 2 other operations to give my wife an emergency C section probably saving my sons life. I avoid the Emerg at all costs unless absolutely necessary . You know you are in for a wait usually and thats a good thing because there are clinics that provide the care too many folks clog the waiting room at ER for. The system isn't perfect and its NOT free as too many suggest. We do pay higher taxes but its worth it when you add in the many other benefits of being Canadian.The bullshit coming from the right and greedy in US about Canadas system is getting a little old. Look at it this way. If every other industrialized country ,and some banana republics, can handle government health care ? Why cant the US ? You think it would be a matter of pride in the worlds richest ( debatable) country. Me , id rather bitch about the rates at hospital parking lot rather then worry if the insurance gods will grant me that life saving operation.
It should be understood that in Canada the health system is administered provincially. Each province has its own set of rules and methods of cost coverage.
I'm from Nova Scotia where we have universal medical coverage under a system called Medical Services Insurance, fondly refered to as MSI.
I pay no 'premiums' for this service, instead we have a goods & services consumption tax (GST) that is levied on everything but essentials such as food and clothing. On luxury items such as alcohol or tabaco there is a hidden tax as well as the GST. Everyone accepts these taxes to ensure that everyone is looked after under MSI.
About 10 or so years ago we were having a family gathering here with a few of my American cousins. A cousin from Boston pigeoned holed me to complain about the cost of a 40 of rum being more than twice of what he would pay at home. I explained to him that it was how we paid for free medical services. He cursed Canada as a socialist and backward hell hole.
You see, he was hurting for money as he had just buried his mother and was stuck with the bills for her illness and was considering bankrupcy.
I have a catscan scheduled for this week to ensure that my inner ear/balance problem is not something more sinister than mineares disease. It was made by my specialist last week. Cost to me this year $0.00.
Thanks. This is something that is usually lost when this comes up. There is variation province to province. Alberta had a premium for a time I believe. Saskatchewan has in past years pushed more drug coverage, etc etc etc.. There are national standards, but funding province to province varies.
Why do rightwing conservatives, including most Republicans, lie about everything. Just absolutely everything. From morals, monogamy, bathroom sex, gay marriage to health care.
Is there ever anything that these rightwing nutjobs won't lie about.
http://unrepentantoldhippie.wordpress.com/200...
The founder of universal health care in Canada was voted as the greatest Canadian. Here is a link.
http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/top_ten/nominee/do...
Just two things I want to add to this discussion:
1. Shaona Holmes is fast becoming one of the most despised persons in Canada. Word is that if she goes back she would have to lay low for a very long time. There is already a couple of Facebook groups speaking out against her. One is the humorously entitled, "Let's Deport Shona Holmes", and the other more seriously titled, " Shona Holmes doesn't speak for me".
This has enraged Canadians like nothing else, with letters flooding newspapers like the Toronto Star saying that Americans are being given only one side of the story. This is also being played out in Canadian blogs where Insurance apologists tried to put out their spin, but were outgunned by the outraged populace.
2. The Insurance industry has a big problem with Canada's health care system. It works. Even worse from it's point of veiw, it gives Americans an instant comparison in the health care debate making said industry look bad. The solution? Overturn Canada's Healthcare Act, and have candians on something similar to America's healthcare system!
Yeah right, I hear you say at your computers, "Canadians would never go for such a scheme." And you would be correct. That, however, has not stopped the insurance industry from trying. Conservative Canadians, like one John Carplay, ( Head of Candian Consitution Foundation, and has ties to religous right/corperate factions) is bankrolling a "challenge charter" to single payer in Ontario.
Its goal is to widen a court decision in Quebec that allowed for a two-tier private insurance option. The only problem with this is that if that happens the insurance industry can crack into the country and destroy the current healthcare system. How? Canada is a NAFTA trading partner, and insisted on a exemption in the bill to prevent foriegn private corperations access to Candian markets. Once health insurance and health delivery, are offered in the private system the exemption no longer applies. The ultimate goal of all of this is to destroy public healthcare, and it is not only happening in Canada, the UK has its share of insurance shrills too.
I got this info from a diary from Daily Kos, so if you want more information or just to check out whether what I wrote down is true it's:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/27/7....
without a doubt, that if the healthcare system in Canada should be in any immediate danger of being given over to the insurance industry...you would see the 'well-known politeness' of us Canadians tossed aside...in a very big way!
Why is the 'religious right' always involved in issues that threaten the well being of other people?
I agree with you Isamsa, I've seen some of E-mails sent to the Toronto Star! It's just that I've read on this site, some people half-jokingly saying that if healthcare doesn't improve or words similar to that effect, that they would move to Canada. Just giving a heads up that the insurance industry isn't going to let that money go without a fight!
Thanks for the link to the dailykos story. The health insurance industry is camped on Canada's doorstep waiting for us to set up a private clinic or two. Not a chance. People like me are "standing on guard" for Canadian values.
Your Welcome!
I was surprised to hear of the insurance industry attempt to get rid of public healthcare in Canada. Don't the people have any say in how they wish to spend their hard earned money? Anyway, keep up the good fight! Just remember, all Canadians have to do is look at America to see the consequences of losing to the insurance industry. Good Luck!
You have can have my healthcare when you can pry it from my cold frostbitten fingers eh .
Can Republicans please, just once in their empty, vapid lives, defend their positions - any position they so choose - in a way that isn't COMPLETELY, BLATANTLY FRAUDULENT?
is that she now wants the Canadian government to foot the bill for her treatment in the US.
To add to chorus of people who have stories to tell: My mom was diagnosed with breast cancer, had the operation 3 days later, went in and out of remission and lived 21 years after the initial diagnosis. In between she had many other health complications and operations. She was, in many ways, a medical mess. Our out of pocket cost for her medical treatment (our system isn't free, remember we pay taxes for it) was either nothing, or something like $60 a week for a private room (most of which was reimbursed by our health insurance).
As a Canadian I am sad to say our health car is terrible and that if you want to get a health care system then you should look at France's or Germany's system. We have to wait for hours to get in to see a doctor in the ER, in fact one guy waited in a Winnipeg ER for 36 hours, sorry he only waited a few hours before he died, they found him after 36 hours dead. He checked in but no one saw him. Then you have to wait months to get a new knee. My mother in law needed a new knee, however see had to wait 8 months to get it. Because they had used up all the available knees. She offered to pay for it but they could not take her money she had to wait.
My Grandmother was in the hospital after being hit by a car, she is 90. Before she got hit she danced, bowled and was very active. The doctor was thinking about not giving her the medicine she need to unblock her arteries because she was soo old and her life was not worth saving. It took several hours and people to convince him to save her life.
You will get a government run health care system that will be like the post office, it will be run horribly and most of the money will go to administration.
We have a health authority here that was one floor worth of admin, after 8 years they out grew that place. Now they have two floors and a new building to house all their staff. I think they increased their size from 200 to 1,000. That money could be better used in the hospitals instead of admins pockets.
November 2008 my brother-in-law was robbed in Las Vegas. He suffered a serious head injury causing brain damage. While sitting in the hospital in Las Vegas and then later in Calgary my sister noticed the many differences between the two health systems.
The most striking difference between the two systems was that she felt her husband was not a patient so much as a commodity in the Las Vegas hospital. Every-time the health professionals came into his room his identification on his wrist with a bar code was scanned. His care was excellent but impersonal and because of his excellent insurance some of the procedure we found later where unnecessary but were done for profit in mind. Talking to the insurance provider I found out that this was typical with travel insurance patients. Of course the Travel insurance provider know this, so they insist Canadian's time in a US hospital is kept as short as possible. On the fifth day, when the swelling and bleeding on his brain had stabilized, the Travel Insurance Company had him airlifted to Calgary at a cost of $25000. When he arrived in Calgary he did not know who he was, or where he was, nor did he know his wife or family members.
In Calgary there were no beds in the Brain injury ward so my brother-in-law was in the emergency department for two days. He should not have been airlifted out of Las Vegas until a bed was available but this is routine for insurance companies. Even if there is not a bed they want the patient out of the US hospitals. When he was in the Brain Injury ward his care was excellent and extremely personal. The nurses and doctors only thoughts and concerns were insuring he recovers from his brain injury. It was not about the price of each procedure and padding the bill. He stayed in the hospital for 30 days seeing many different specialists and therapists and we were able to get him home for Christmas. A month after Christmas he returned to a special brain injury recovery ward where he was reevaluated for a week. My brother-in-law recovery from his brain injury is on going at home but many of his fellow patients had spent up to six month on this ward relearning basic skills so they could become productive and independent. Some of the brain injured will never be independent and for others, like my brother-in-law, their recoveries can take up to two years.
The cost for his care in Canada since November 21, 2008 is $0. His cost of care for 5 days in Las Vegas was $90,000 plus 25,000 for a medivac flight.
The Canadian Government has Canadians brainwashed into thinking we have the best health care system in the world. In actual fact, it’s one of the worst in the world if you are just a normal hard working Canadian. Unionized government employees love it because they are the ones with the golden parachute benefit packages and get everything for free. For most Canadians, our healthcare system is a mid-evil dungeon of tax tortures. Prescription drugs can cost many families hundreds and even thousand of dollars per month and only a very small percentage of that can be tax deducted. Now that the government has learned that Canadians just cannot be taxed more without the country collapsing, they have come up with a new evil to pay for our healthcare system….Government owned casinos.
Botched medial procedures causing death are very common in Canada but families are rarely compensated. Then there are government cover-ups such as A.A.R.S (Airborne Acute Respiratory Syndrome), which killed thousands of people in hospitals across Ontario and the government did everything to keep a lid on it. People were going in for tests or minor procedures and coming out in body bags. Then it showed up in China and the Chinese called it S.A.R.S so the Canadian government jumped on the bandwagon and blamed everything on this scary new disease from China.
Below is a letter I wrote to Larry King to be read on Larry King Live.
Gary Skrzek
Waterdown, Ontario
_________________________________________________
Dear Larry
Some American politicians have the disillusion of using Canada’s health care system as a model to follow. In order to pay for our great healthcare system the government has opened up hundreds of casinos spread-out across the country like a minefield that’s hell-bent on crippling the population by turning Canadians into a race of gambling junkies. The government is using every trick in the book to get people addicted but don’t want to take responsibility. You hear about the great things that are being accomplished with the casino proceeds but you don’t hear about the thousands of families being destroyed and the countless children being sucked into living conditions below the poverty line because of problem gambling. Canada is using a social cancer to finance the health care system.
Is that what Americans really want?
Gary Skrzek
Waterdown, Ontario , Canada
I don't think anyone is saying the Canadian system is perfect. I'm certainly not. The problem with the Canadian system is that it has been chronically underfunded for 15 years. If you want to talk about administration and bureacracy, the US system is the most expensive system in the world per capita.
Gary, the fact that medications can be expensive in Canada.. well they can in the US as well. What's your point. And many provinces have plans you can register with to cover meds. I also have a major ethical problem with gambling, but that has nothing to do with the type of health care system one has.
Artobloon, with respect to your grandmother, I am sorry to hear that story, but that sounds like the problem is one bad doctor. There are bad doctors everywhere. And yes, waiting can sometimes be a problem, but it can be in the US as well. At least everyone is covered. I have recently become a more frequent user of the Canadian system, and have no complaints whatsoever about the first-class timely health care I've received.
The majority of Americans, despite the misleading right-wing propaganda, support public health care. With 48 million uninsured Americans, I can see why.
Ms. Holmes had an MRI in Canada and she was diagnosed with a brain tumor. They told her that she would have to go to a neurosurgeon or an endocrinologist in order to find out what kind of tumor it was and to get treatment, but that it was going to take 5-6 months to get an appointment. She was suffering from severe loss of vision and headaches, and did not feel she could wait that long. She wasn't diagnosed with the cyst until she went to the Mayo clinic, and there she was told that she was 25% blind in one eye and 50% in the other. She had to have the tumor removed before she went blind. She was treated and returned home within a month. To imply that she knew that it was a cyst, that what she had was not serious, and that it wouldn't have hurt her to wait is dishonest and wrong. She may not be typical of the health care in Canada, but you lying about her case is not helping yours.