The Rachel Maddow Show: U.S. Ties to Ugandan Anti-Gay Bill
Rachel Maddow and Jeff Sharlet discuss the ties between C-Street, Pastor Rick Warren and an anti-gay bill in Uganda. Good for Rachel for bringing some attention to this truly horrific story, unlike her cohort at MSNBC David Gregory who forgot to mention Uganda during the softball interview he gave Rick Warren on Meet the Press.
MADDOW: The government of Uganda is considering passing a law to execute gay people. Execute as in by hanging a, quote, “serial offender” or an HIV-positive person who commits same sex act. If enacted, this law would also impose a three-year prison sentence on anyone who knows of a gay person in the country but doesn‘t report that gay person to the government within 24 hours.
Who is supporting and promoting this legislation? Well, one of the proponents is a minister named Pastor Martin Ssempa. He was a familiar face to American conservative Evangelicals, because Mr. Ssempa has been a frequent guest of Pastor Rick Warren at One Saddleback Church in California.
Do you remember Rick Warren? Him being selected to deliver the invocation at Barack Obama‘s inauguration was the little black cloud that crawled inside the silver lining that day for a lot of Americans who support gay rights.
Given with Rick Warren‘s deep involvement with Pastor Ssempa on matters including gay rights and AIDS issues in Uganda, “Newsweek” magazine asked Pastor Rick Warren his opinion of this proposed “kill the gays” law in Uganda.
Mr. Warren responded by distancing himself from Martin Ssempa, but also by refusing to condemn the proposal saying, quote, “It is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations.”
In a moment, we‘ll speak with Jeff Sharlet who has written extensively about the secret of Evangelical religious organization called The Family. We first started discussing The Family on this show when it emerged as a player in, not two, but three Republican sex scandals - those of South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford, Nevada Senator John Ensign and the alleged sex scandal involving former Mississippi Congressman Chip Pickering.
The Family, among other things, provides well-below market rent housing for a select group of members of Congress at its, until recently, nearly tax-exempt church on Capitol Hill - a house called C Street.
Jeff Sharlet is now reporting that there aren‘t just ties between American Evangelical Rick Warren and the “kill the gays” bill in Uganda. He reports that, in fact, the president of Uganda and the legislator who introduced the “kill the gays” bill are more than just supported by American Evangelicals. They are both members of The Family.
Joining us now is Jeff Sharlet, author of “The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power.” He is also a contributing editor to “Harper‘s” magazine. Jeff, it‘s nice to see you again. Thanks for joining us.
JEFF SHARLET, AUTHOR, “THE FAMILY”: Good to be back, Rachel. Thanks.
MADDOW: So who introduced the “kill the gays” bill and what‘s his connection to The Family?
SHARLET: It‘s a member of parliament named David Bahati who has been very involved with a sort of conservative Evangelical revival in Uganda, very involved with a lot of American Evangelical groups and has also taken a leadership role in The Family‘s Uganda operation through something called the African Student Leadership Program at the Uganda‘s National Prayer Breakfast, which is an offshoot of the prayer breakfast The Family hosts every year here in the United States.
So he‘s got this leadership role that puts him not just at the sort of the margin of things, but functioning as one of their key men on the ground in Uganda.
MADDOW: In the big picture, why is The Family interested in Uganda? Why are they interested in operating there? And what are their goals there?
SHARLET: Well, The Family has always viewed its religious outreach, its worldwide spiritual offensive, as they describe it, in very clear geopolitical terms. Uganda, right now, is an incredibly important country for world politics. It‘s functioning in many ways as a U.S. proxy with Sudan, with Congo, with Rwanda.
There‘s oil in that general region and The Family needs to have a presence out there. They‘ve had that presence in Uganda since 1986 when they sent over a man to recruit Museveni who was then the new leader. Didn‘t look like a bright Democratic spot in African leadership. And they recruited him to be one of their main brothers, as they put it, for the whole continent.
MADDOW: So President Museveni in Uganda - he‘s not explicitly backing this horrendous bill. But it is thought that he tacitly supports it, at least as far as I can tell, and that the ethics and integrity minister in his government is vocally in favor of this thing. You‘re saying he has Family connections that go back decades.
SHARLET: Yes, to 1986. And it‘s hard to call it passive support when he‘s coming out there and saying that homosexuality is a plot that‘s sort of being imposed on Africa by Europe and that this is a time for Africans to rally together against sort of the foreign influence of homosexuality.
Now, Museveni is - the thought in Ugandan politics is that he‘s sort of letting other guys take the lead on this. But through his ethics minister, who is the main organizer of the National Prayer Breakfast in Uganda and it‘s his right-hand man - he‘s got a direct involvement.
And just last week, in fact, Museveni responded to questions from Uganda‘s main newspaper, is he a part of The Family. And his press secretary said, “Well, I can‘t answer that.” But it certainly sounds like an organization the president would like to be a part of but only if they really, really hate homosexuals.
MADDOW: Wow. That bastardization of that Groucho Marx quote is running through my head right now. Back in July, Jeff, you uncovered a video and we played it on the show, of Oklahoma Senator Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma, a Republican senator in the United States. He‘s got admitted association with C Street and The Family.
We played video that you found of him talking about his trips taken to Africa on the urging of leaders of The Family. I just want a real quick clip to remind folks here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JIM INHOFE (R-OK): If you‘re a member of the United States Senate, in Africa, they think you are important, so you can always go to see the kings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: You always get in to see the kings. Is Sen. Inhofe or any other American politician powerful enough among Ugandan politicians that they could derail this legislation if they wanted to?
SHARLET: Well, working with colleagues, I‘ve reached out to Inhofe‘s office and he refuses to say a word about it despite the fact that he likes to boast of his incredibly close relationship with Ugandan politics.
He‘s attended the Uganda National Prayer Breakfast. He says, in fact, he has adopted the nation and he regularly travels over there in behalf of The Family. Yet, he‘s refused to condemn it.
Does he have the influence? We don‘t know because he‘s not exerting it. It‘s just like Rick Warren. Could Rick Warren, who has designated Uganda a purpose-driven nation, make a difference?
We don‘t know because they‘re not trying. And I think that‘s the kind of the bottom line with the American involvement. There‘s been a lot of American support for the guys who are promoting this bill and no pushback against this incredibly hateful piece of violence put in the legislation.
MADDOW: Jeff Sharlet is author of “The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power.” Thanks, as always, for joining us, Jeff. I really appreciate it.
SHARLET: Thanks, Rachel.
Transcript via MSNBC.
looks like Uganda has caught Evangelical Fever and it's pretty deadly...so much for prolife!
it is, and always has been, about "anti-choice."
Religion is the clear proof that there is no god.
they are God.
..Man created God.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
I will never understand Christianity's obsession with homosexuality.
Countless books and articles have been writing on the subject.
..which is not possible in a same-sex relationship.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
My husband and I chose to have no kids so are we the bad guys according to the "family"?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
..and as far as the church is concerned, I don't care.
Genesis 1:22,28
“22Then God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply. Let the fish fill the seas, and let the birds multiply on the earth
and
28Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground.”
I cut and pasted that.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
Did it really say "scurry"?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
.
I have to laugh when I try to picture some guy way back when saying the word "scurry". Did someone say "dude" too? Or was it dudieth?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
"Chicks and ducks and geese better scurry
When I take you out in the surrey,
When I take you out in the surrey with the fringe on top!"
But then I'm a queer that needs a killin'.
when I readeth the bible.
(Ye olde times must have been very hard on those with a lisp me thinks)
Artificial insemination or surrogate mothers?
It is indeed possible for same sex couples to procreate, like it or not.
then.
You're making a person...that's pro-creating. We are reaching a point where the union of a sperm and an egg is not necessary. You can use just sperm or just eggs, and implant. Using medical science is no different than making a kid by doing the nasty (breeder style).
Well, that does take some of the fun out of it.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
We can still do our version of the nasty in the waiting room with the cute male nurses.
keep trying to procreate but we can't figure out what we're doing wrong.
because you're not MARRIED!!!!
;)
Most Christian men are guilt-ridden latent homosexuals and are so afraid of losing their sense of manhood and Christian identity they resort to hate and violence toward emotionally healthy gays.
They were all intellectually and emotionally abused as children when their well-meaning but equally mentally ill parents, the church and our Christian-infected culture brainwashed them into the delusional belief system called Christianity.
http://www.charlesbelser.com
How do you break it to these guys that the Vatican itself has it in its laws that sex with a boy as young as twelve is OK?
And would they be interested in a hot librarian type, not too bright but able to parrot hatred at the drop of a red shoe...? Part time only, salary plus expenses....
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Then again, a lot of people do.
LOL . . seriously this is it.
... so much as hope for its existence.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Put yourself under Rick in his wifes position . . .
HELL and I mean that most sincerely!
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
This whole article left me with a very sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Religious people wanting to kill people because they are drawn to people of their own sex? That is distressing in so many ways. Yeah, I feel sick.
But now I have one more good reason to detest Inhofe.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
..who ticks off the neighborhood wise-guy who blabs to authorities that he must be "gay". Salem witch trials, anyone?
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
That is happening in other parts of Africa, only it's accusations of being in the wrong tribe or political party.
Why is it that some of us understand that Jesus was trying to tell people how to run their own lives, not attempting to set loose a political movement that tells other people how to run their lives?
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
Hmmm....
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Only some of us aren't trying to take a fool's money through the guise of religion.
Why the fu*k do these people care what other people do as long as it brings no harm to anyone? Who died and made them the sheriffs of humanity? It sure as hell wasn't the Jesus I learned about when I was a little kid in Sunday School.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
"It sure as hell wasn't the Jesus I learned about when I was a little kid in Sunday School."
Yeah, I heard that guy died. He didn't conform to the haters mentality - never charged for healthcare - so they crucified him.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
The Hate mongers with their crosses and messages of Guilt and Hate Are in over drive, now can we have the Tax Exempt of Any hate Mongering Phony ass christian church revoked by their admission that they have had any dealings with Uganda.
Further Tax Exempt revocation for failing to RENOUNCE this Murder for GOD because you ain't WHITE.
This is now PROOF that christianity is a White Only Cult based on HATRED, Indifference, and Ignorance.
I spit on on these hate Mongers now we have justification why NO religious Garbage should be allowed on GOVERNMENT Property and those that want it should be hunted down and Killed. these are real enemies of America.
Warning to sicko knee jerk Morons called christians your symbols of christianity have now become symbols of HATRED as proven by the whacked leadership of your Hate Mongering Cult (oops religion, laughs up sleeve).
...is the "Rapture" movement. Fits all the criteria. Rick Warren is a part of this, as is "The Family" on C Street.
"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman
It is happening. Just WAY slower than the Xtians thought. Seems like it is happening one person at a time.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
as sharlet notes, and did a masterful job uncovering, the family's tentacles are not just in the american political establishment, but reach around the globe.
truly, the family is a dangerous, undemocratic, organization, that sees christianity thru the eyes of despots and megalomaniacs. and has used its political power in america to help support and defend some of the world's worst dictators.
This sounds like a Dan Brown book being written for him.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
it does
and another instance where truth is much stranger (or more chilling) than fiction
I always wonder how many of these gay haters are gay people in denial. I mean why else would they hate gays so unless they are deeply envious of their activities?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
My experience says most if not all homophobes are dealing with personal issues in the same regard.
I've never known a straight person who had to prove anything to anyone by hating the gays. To the contrary most of my hetero friends are considerate and kind hearted and they care very much about equality and LGBT issues. But that's just my experience.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Same here. The homophobes that I have known also had issues in other parts of their lives as well.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
By belittling others we make ourselves feel bigger.
My dad is one of these people. He constantly insults people, calls their hobbies stupid, complains about having to eat any food that isn't exactly what he's used to. But god forbid you "talk mean" to him, he'll threaten to cut you out of his will and sulk for weeks.
if it frustrates Rachel that she can no longer comment on the shortcomings of people like Gregory et al on MSNBC because they're now colleagues. More than once on TRMS the radio show I can remember her taking these jerks to task for crap like that.
the first methods possible to end war is to outlaw outside involvement based on the fact that oil is there.
reading about the family, and the overtly gay things they would do with each other, i think the part that i found most shocking was the cult-like ability of the leaders of the family (the coe family) to convince their religious intitates to look to hitler and goebbels for lessons in leadership, with a nod to al qaeda as well. the family hides its intentions, hides its beliefs, refers to "cells" of family members, tries to use its position to further its own interests, uses its power to control leaders throughout the world, etc.
Just now reading about this in Sharlet's book the Family. It's important to realize that many Dems are also in bed with these wackos, including our illustrious Secretary of State, now justifying another episode in our quintessential American drama "Perpetual War" on cspan. We just love delivering God and DU via robot death machines drones to the worlds population, don't we? Faith-based initiatives and stealth bombers payed for with our taxes.
I want to hear Sharlet's research on how Obama connects with these nutjobs...the pres has attended the National Prayer Breakfarts....
very important to note that clinton was in one of the family's prayer cells. of course, segregated based on gender
The Family is a very important work...at first I was really put off by the writing style, too many dangling modifiers and sentence clause problems ( which create confusion rather then clarity.)
But I stuck with it, swallowing my English teacher grammatical ethics, and am very emphatic in encouraging people to buy it and read it.
The book makes sense of a lot of things I just wrote off as a Puritan hangover, creating a much more nefarious purpose of the evangelical cult and fascists like Coe.
Would I sound wimpy if I said this stuff frightens the hell out of me?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
that just means you are informed
shit is scary
I do not worry about another terrorist attack because there isn't a thing I can do to stop one, however I read stories like this and wonder how these crazy people got elected in this country and what hold do they have over others around the world. That's the sort of thing we should be able to control in some way, if only voters paid attention to the big picture.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I don't like mixing religion with politics. I think Obama has mixed too much in for my taste too. It is already hard to get away from it.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Northing wrong with theocracy if you don't mind being a slave.
I just wonder if we are not already there...then again that's why I am a city boy.
I bailed on religion when I saw it cause my grandparents to give every cent they had to some huckster preacher. Then I watched as my mother turned her back on me due to her religion. That stuff can be poison.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Steven Weinberg (1933 - ), quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
And that fact always creeps me out!
Can Hillary triangulate on religion?
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/h...
Corruption favors the wealthy.
... to comment on the politics or religion of other nations?
So I guess he wouldn't have said anything about Hitler putting the Jews into camps.
Or China persecuting Christians and Uighurs and Falun Gong.
Or Wahabists who have this real hate going for the good ol' US of A.
What a toad.
I knew there was something wrong with him saying that I just didn't put my finger on it until I read it above.
Excellents points!
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
It seems the Family has found a testing ground for some of their policies. Let no one doubt they'd do this in the US if they could get away with it. Uganda is heavily dependent on foreign aid and that should be used as leverage to make them back down. Sovereignty be damned.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Hitler did this (i.e. Pink Triangles) and no one cared. It really wasn't until the eighties that Nazis' homosexual persecution was publicly acknowledged. I really don't see the US openly standing against them. But then I'm just bitter and exhausted from all the constant hate that never seems to go away.
Uganda will put a hit out on Meredith Baxter now.
is to interfere in the political process in THIS nation.
“It is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations.”- WHAT a load or horse shit from yet another US holier-than-thou!
Brought to you by who else than the "reel-igious". What a vomitous horde of completely self-centered dingbats and utter morons/Don't even get me started with the Ungandans. Religion makes me ashamed to be a homosapien and an American! Really! Those/You/All people involved with that nonsensical bullshit should be the one's being mulled over for being executed. Please, visit your maker soon!
that sabatoged health care reform with extreme anti-abortion language. Pitts and Stupak. Both members of the C-Street House run buy "the family". They are a cult, and for gay people in Uganda, they could be just a deadly as the Mansons.
The Family, et al, are a bunch of whacko Dominionists. For an interesting read check out this Sep. 2008 article (and pretty much anything by this author):
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?contex...
His website: http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net
Religion will be the downfall of Humanity.
I would like to make this comment. Anti-gay laws in Uganda (like in other countries) are an inheritance from the time that they were British colonies. It is relevant to remember that at the time they became independent, homosexuality was illegal in the UK itself. With so much of the old leadership having been educated at that time, and them being indoctrinated with the idea that being 'civilized' meant being Christian (there was a lot of disparagement of indigenous African beliefs - in fact anything African), many of these colonial era laws have not changed.
Having said that - most of the population is very young (mostly over 50% under the age of 25, or even younger), this can easily change. There is a 'live and let live' mentality throughout most African cultures, although parochialism is the same everywhere.
Why govt is concerned with gays and not corruption
Augustine Ruzindana
And from the Gay Uganda blog at blogspot.com.
I noticed that there is alot of anti-Christian sentement on these messages. I am a follower of Christ and I want to make it clear that these people do not represent me or the millions out there who read the Gospels and follow the teachings of Love, mercy, and Justice.
The Family are direct descendents of the pharisees who acted righteous but were in fact, greedy, prideful, immoral people.
Matthew 23 13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.[c]
15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
Does this not describe the religious right, who have twisted Jesus's teachings into something unrecognizable?
Pastor Rick Warren and his Ugandan pal want to murder homosexuals and burn condoms "in the name of Jesus (really!!)! read more about these dangerous crackpots at this new blog:
http://www.charlesbelser.com
Comments are closed on this entry