Media Uses McDonnell's 'Confederate History Month' to Trot Out the Racists
So how does the media decide to handle Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell's 'Confederate History Month' proclamation? Why trot out some racists who want to defend his original decision to ignore the issue of slavery of course. And what do all three of these interviews have in common? All three involve having someone of African American descent trying to argue with these Yahoos. First up we had Pat Buchanan on Hardball arguing that both sides were right in the Civil War and former DNC head Karen Finney. Finney posted this at Politico on the subject:
Gov. Bob McDonnell’s decision is shameful. If you’re going to declare April as “Confederate History Month” to commemorate, “… the Commonwealth’s shared history, to understand the sacrifices of the Confederate leaders, soldiers and citizens during the period of the Civil War, and to recognize how our history has led to our present;” then have the courage and character to embrace the full truth, not hide from or censor it. This is not about being “PC”. [...]
For me this is very personal. My father, who is African American, is from Virginia. The Finney name comes from the man who once owned my family as slaves. My mother, Mildred Lee, is the great, great, great niece of Robert E. Lee, or “the General”, as he is referred to by my family. I am therefore the great, great, great, great niece of General Lee. That is my American story, a mixed race heritage that I am proud of, just as Virginia, the South and our country has a mixed history.
I think it was shameful to make her sit through Buchanan's crap on Hardball. More from CNN's Anderson Cooper 360 and MSNBC TV below the fold.
Next up from the previous night, CNN's Anderson Cooper brings on Sons of Confederate Veterans Brag Bowling to debate Roland Martin who looked like he was about to blow a gasket by the time this interview was winding up. Bowling defended the Governor omitting slavery from the proclamation and said the motivation for the Civil War was about "the preservation of liberty and freedom". In the second half of the interview which is posted above, Bowling repeats Pat Buchanan's talking points almost word for word.
BOWLING: But there were plenty of other issues.
MARTIN: Oh give me a break.
But what was the dominant issue? That's like Tiger Woods' wife saying I'm going leaving you because we can't communicate. No, you're leaving because he cheated. So stop trying to sit here and say there's other stuff. The dominant issue that cast a cloud over everything was slavery.
COOPER: Mr. Bowling I want to give you the final thought and then we've got to go.
BOWLING: No, I just -- I totally disagree. I think there's a place to honor veterans, all veterans. And the confederate veteran is a recognized American veteran by Congress and he deserves full honor for the sacrifice he made.
COOPER: I guess, though, the critics say well, why not then, have the month where confederate -- you know, everyone who fought in the Civil War is recognized, where confederate veterans, union veterans --
BOWLING: Well, that's -- that's an easy one because the Union Army invaded the south. And the Union Army killed thousands and thousands of Virginians.
COOPER: Right. But there were plenty of Virginians who actually --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: -- there are plenty of Virginians who actually supported the union and actually formed the State of West Virginia and there is -- you know, to say that they invaded Virginia, there are those who would argue with you it's part of the United States.
BOWLING: I think that's the prime motivating factor of the confederate soldier, is the fact that they were invaded and they had to defend their homes and their families and some of the things that the union armies --
MARTIN: Right.
BOWLING: -- did when they were in Virginia by completely destroying the Shenandoah Valley, burning people's homes and stealing things --
MARTIN: Sir, how dare you --
BOWLING: This is the way --
MARTIN: How --
BOWLING: -- this is the way the Union Army behaved in every southern state from the march to the sea all the way through South Carolina.
MARTIN: So what -- were you --
BOWLING: And it was shameful and degrading.
MARTIN: So -- so were you offended when they destroyed Africans? Were you ashamed when they destroyed the families? When they killed them? When they tortured them, when they murdered them? You sit here and talk about what the Union Army did --
BOWLING: The Union Army?
MARTIN: When the people -- you sir, but no. The people you're supporting, they tortured and killed Africans who were slaves. And you're sitting here by saying well, they invaded. Come on, do you not even see and do you feel and hear how you sound?
BOWLING: I think I sound perfectly rational. I'm giving you what happened.
MARTIN: No, I think, no I think you sound delirious when you can't even recognize how they destroyed human beings. This was a --
BOWLING: You're giving a perfect reason why this whole era needs a full study.
COOPER: But -- but -- but Mr. Bowling you're not -- you're not --
MARTIN: Yes.
COOPER: I just want to give you an opportunity to respond to what Mr. Martin said, I mean, you do recognize that, you know, slavery was inherently evil and Africans who were --
BOWLING: I do. I do.
COOPER: -- brought over here were treated terribly.
BOWLING: I make no -- I make no defense of slavery. But we live in 2010. We don't live in 1860, where slavery was a world-wide institution. It's a completely different place now.
MARTIN: And it was wrong then -- and it was wrong then. And in the governor's statement, he even said we need to recognize the times people lived in. I'm sorry, sir, I reject evil then and I reject it now.
And last but not least, Tamryn Hall on MSNBC gets more of the same from Bowling's fellow Sons of Confederate Veterans member, Jeff Davis who also defended the omission of slavery from the proclamation. Watching these three was just pitiful. About as pitiful as the media giving them a platform for their revisionist history.
Those old white ******s have lost their minds!!!
censor that tells you when to STFU. They are so outraged at a black man being President of the United States that they again want to make it the divided states. Not only should we let them go, but as someone else said here today, we should insist that they go. Take all your nasty bigoted brethren with you. Get out. Now.
Well said savannag43
"Let's talk dirty to the animals"
If I thought Texas would hold them, I'd say go ahead. Then all the he-men there could take part of Mexico(maybe), and have their own little wingnut world.
That this stupid ass pat never got any closer to the whitehouse then he has.
republicanism/conservatism is a mental illness!
... more like Ebola. Virulent, contagious, deadly, destroys your internal organs and turns them to mush, but doctors can't find the host and there's no cure.
Let's move beyond the white/black issue. Is slavery as a whole wrong? We certainly believe so today; we have laws against child labor and sweatshop labor, we even frown upon corporations that go overseas to dodge domestic laws.
Is Buchanan then suggesting that sweatshop owners have a legitimate point? That this kind of treatment is acceptable?
and even then it was only the voice representing those white dinosaurs that were afraid of brown people.
He is so irrelevant.
I can't understand why he's still on tv.
Not only is he on tv, he's on it a lot. I wonder if maybe he is the best know racist. That's the only thing I can come up with.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
... generally don't waste time with bullshit discussions about the legitimacy of the Civil War.
So I owe you 40 acres and a mule.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
... say, "I like Texas. Some of my best friends are from Texas."
so it was an easy promise.
And yes, this is the place. Texas, taken from the Caddo Indian word Tejas, means friendship. Texas motto used to be "The Friendly State." Till we changed it to "Don't Mess With Texas." Other places like "Don't Tread On Me," but Texans think it makes us sound like we are laying around and want you to step around or over us. Which is true. We just don't want to admit it.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
because the MSM doesn't care about quality programming and good, intelligent discussion. It only cares about sensationalism, and Buchanan really stirs it up for them.
..irrelevant in society.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
The problem here is not excluding slavery, the problem here is celebrating a giant act of treason that got a TON of people killed. Celebrating the Confederacy is EXACTLY the same as celebrating Al-Quaeda.
Saying the Civil war was "about slavery" is, at best, an extreme over simplification and, at worst, a complete misunderstanding of what the war was about.
Yet you drop 'Al-Qaeda = Confederacy' on the table?
Al-Qaeda's basis is in religion. Jihad is the principle of reforming Islam and the Umma (community) from within, and did not originally carry the same violent connotations as it does now.
The Confederacy was formed of states that attempted to declare independence in the same manner that we set our course apart from the British Crown, citing specific grievances with which they could not resolve. Unfortunately, among those grievances was the issue of slavery - so it's not an 'oversimplification' in the least.
among those grievances was the issue of slavery. But it wasn't the only issue. It wasn't even the main issue. Stating that "The Civil war was fought over slavery" is indeed an oversimplification.
And my point about Al-Queda wasn't that Al-Queda = Confederacy. It was that both groups were aiming to bring down the United States and it's government. The Confederacy, no matter which issues they were fighting for, was a huge group of traitors to the United States and should, under no circumstances, be honored.
... the States which formed the Confederacy were, regardless of their status as traitors, members of the union and U.S. Citizens.
... al-Qaeda are a collection of religious ideologues who are not led by our citizens, nor do they have a legitimate seat at our domestic political table. They cannot be traitors.
To argue that 'violent revolution' equates the two is incorrect.
John Brown and his followers were terrorists.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
John Brown is a hero.
Valid point. Though the aim of the 2 groups, the destrution of the US government, were the same
The Confederates wanted to have their own US governement.
al-Qaeda just wants to kill our leaders and convert the people to
ChristianityIslam."Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Not any more Treasonous than America.
We call it Patriotism and English call it Treason for which the Revolutionary war was fought. It was a CIVIL WAR between England and America. England trying to bring it's wayward Colony back into the fold.
The Lincoln invasion of the Confederacy was no different only the South lost.
Donaldd
I plead ignorant as a Brit ... but hasn't this era been studied? It seems a pretty significant part of US history so I would have thought a few academics might have touched on it over the years.
For example, here in Europe we a have good idea as to how many people have died in recent times in slave labour camps. To put things in perspective, do US historians know how many people died in Virginia's slave labour facilities?
... would be for one of the following reasons:
ABSOLUTION. The slaveowners only rebelled against the government because their rights were being trampled upon.
CONDEMNATION. 'The Union Army went on a rampage through Virginia' is another way of saying, "But the Democrats ..."
LEGITIMIZATION. If slavery was a perfectly acceptable practice THEN, it must still be acceptable now.
Occam, because there were such shitty records kept over the course of Slavery, we really have no idea how many died and likely no way of knowing. Most slaves didn't have but a single name and when they died or were sold, it was much like selling livestock to these people. Even the Census forms from that time period were incomplete. At best they simply noted how many were owned at the time of the census and deaths were only reported for whites most of the time.
So Confederate History Month can be used to further study how many people died in Confederate Slave Labour Camps.
Sounds like a useful exercise. Every future Confederate History Month can be used to further update the public knowledge of how many people the Confederacy enslaved and killed and how many more people in the future the Confederacy wanted to enslave and kill.
The Confederacy never ran any "slave labour camps". Many platation owners in the South owned a slave labour force, but they were not "camps" in the common sense. Slaves were housed on the grounds, in small huts; there were no fences or barbed wire corralling them.
The American Civil War was fought for a number of reasons, many of which are entwined in the whole concept of "states rights", the right of each state to manage itself without undue influence from the Federal government. From the view of the Confederates, that organization did not have the Constitutional authority to ban or in any way hinder the slave trade, or the owning of slaves; the Fugitive Slave Act is often cited as a major factor in the Confederate viewpoint.
From the Union position, the Federal government was perfectly within its authority to regulate commerce and trade, and the buying and selling of slaves, as well as their labour, fell under the Commerce Clause; as such, no state could refuse to observe a Federal law, nor did they have the right to secede from the Union.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" - Red Green
Freedom Ain't Free - Pay Your Share
Sound like slave labour camps to me. The barbed wire fences existed in the laws that protected the practice.
Maybe not always public records, like census, but records nonetheless. Remember, just because you own a slave doesn't mean you don't recognize his value. On the contrary, you are well aware of his value -- at least in terms of economics. And like all valuables, you would keep good records of your slaves.
For some examples of research using such records, see "Time on the Cross" (Fogel and Engerman, 1974). Or "Slavery and the Numbers Game" (Gutman, 1975). Or "American Negro Slavery; a Survey of the Supply, Employment, and Control of Negro Labor, as Determined by the Plantation Regime" (Phillips, 1918). And plenty more. Conclusions and perspectives vary (a lot), but these works all use vast and detailed data to make their points.
The point, though, is that there are records from the era.
Occam, the American Civil War is probably the most widely researched period in American History (at last count there were something like 60,000 books, articles, academic papers written about the Civil War), and while I do believe the last word on that conflict has yet to be written, what we're seeing now is a white supremacist backlash to the election of the first African American president. Hell, that freak Brag Bowling even referred to the Civil War as a war of northern aggression (a distinctly Southern viewpoint). There are people in this country who are obviously forgetting the hard lessons of history and we who are more progressive, need to fight the (literal and figurative) whitewashing of history.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
Which ignores who fired on who at Ft Sumter.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
think slavery is just fine as long as it is not them.
republicanism/conservatism is a mental illness!
Just more of the M$M fake balance - see the offset to a real American Patriot (read: socialist/Marxist/communist) is a secessionist racist confederate.
See all 50/50 - fair AND balanced!
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
"Meanwhile, blogger Blue Texan at FireDogLake reports that the group that lobbied McDonnell's office to reinstate Confederate History Month in Virginia has been tied to the white supremacist movement." ?
Study the symptoms not the virus...
to cheer spirits by placing hearts on your responses to others comments.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
referring to someone who is mixed race as black, reminds me of the old british colonial term "a touch of the tar brush", the kids in the neighborhood commonly say "mixed". truth is, where i live, mixed can mean native american/black/white/asian/etc.
all that being said, the south lost the war, and if it was not about racism, then why did it take another hundred years for african-americans to get voting rights? why were there segregated facilities? to say the civil war was not about slavery is ridiculous.
the stars and bars should be outlawed. said it before, i will say it again, a lot of black peoples ancestors were over here before a lot of white peoples ancestors; as far as being american goes, my ancestors didn't get here until the late 1800's, that is my point.
Your "to say the civil war was not about slavery is ridiculous" comment is uninformed. It appears that most of the commenters on this site are also uninformed. Slavery was on it's way to oblivion before the "civil war" began because most of the world had already regarded it as immoral. If nature would have been left to take it's course, slavery would have faded away without all of the "civil war" deaths.
The "civil war" was about the Corporate owned Lincoln trying to force, through tariffs, the southern suppliers to accept less than market prices for their products when selling to northern industrialists.
This nonsense about the "civil war was to free slaves" is an attempt to give the "North" the illusion of being moral.
Most of you commenters need to educate yourselves. You can start here: http://www.lneilsmith.org/abelenin.html I suggest that you read it until you get it and then do more of your own research to confirm.
Ye Wolverines!!2!
Though you may get in trouble if you pass judgment to its moral teachings. ;)
Study the symptoms not the virus...
you obviate the abolitionist movement, bloody kansas, john brown, and a lot of other stuff by saying slavery was on its way out; what about the hundred years of jim crow? southern courts practically re-instituted slavery by railroading many thousands of blacks onto work farms, this is established fact. besides, who cares? the war ended outright slavery.
that being said, i will agree that the new corporate union exposited in the gettysburg address established wage-slavery as the new norm. lincoln signed selective service into law, which i do not necessarily disagree with, but it is very, very important to recognize that it is a sort of involuntary servitude. so no, i have absolutely no illusions about the norths morality, you could say they were "less immoral", but the south was dead wrong, dead wrong.
"Jim Crow", "southern courts"? Both brought by a "government" that the "south" wanted to escape. "Who cares"? People who think that the murder of "wars" is unnecessary.
about jim crow showed where state and local courts rairoaded black men onto work farms, for "crimes" such as "reckless eyeballing", not kidding, it is recorded; practically a re-institution of slavery.
no, not buying today, i live in a southern state, and racism is alive and well; as far as the murder of war, i am against it, but i know it will happen.
i do not live in a liberterian dreamworld, i live in this world, and i recognize that most wars our caused by capitalists seeking profits.
The Bloody Shirt;
Read about how the south instituded a campagn of terror to re-institute the status-quo and reverse the outcome of the war, a campaign they suceeded in....at least for the next ten decades.
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
The notion that slavery was on its way to oblivion is ludicrous. Cotton, raised by slaves, was the most profitable export of the United States in the 1850's. That's why they called it "King Cotton." Slavery by another name continued for another 100 years after the Civil War through the Jim Crow system.
These people that try to say that slavery was not the primary cause of the War of the Rebellion are evidently embarrassed by slavery and hesitate to defend it.
The secessionists were not so embarrassed or reluctant to defend it. The secession ordinances spelled out slavery as one of the primary causes, and Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens asserted that slavery was the cornerstone on which the Confederacy was established.
The Dred Scott decision was not about tariffs and neither was the Kansas-Nebraska Act, nor was John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry about tariffs. All of these controversies involved the institution of slavery and are widely recognized as significant factors in the Civil War.
Today is the 145th anniversary of Lee handing over his sword to Grant at Appomattox Courthouse.
He sold his sword to Grant to raise funds to feed his cherished but famished men. He only did this because there were no PayDay Loan outlets yet in Virginia.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Lee probrolly bought some mares as concubines, as southern hillbillies just love their farm animals
conflagration as the War of Northern Aggression. Yet I have seen posts here that blame United States government aggression or imperialism for virtually every war save the Revolution and WW I (yes, and I won't name her, but someone even blamed FDR for provoking Japan). It reminds me of the poster who denounces the Repiglican retards for calling the Democratic Party the Democrat Party.
John Stewart had an excellent take on this last night. The proper response is, "Call it what you want. We, the people of the United States, kicked your ass." Then you could add, "Next time we'll be smart enough to just free your oppressed people, let them leave, and kick your ass out for good."
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
--The Bible nowhere states that slavery is wrong. Slavery is ordained by the Bible: "Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever." (Leviticus 25:45-46) "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do." (Exodus 21:2,7) "Servants [slaves], obey in all things your masters. (Colossians 3:22)
Amended: Before anyone replies, understand that I in no way endorse this crap... it's just for reference purposes.
PS. I left off, how some were to be treated... I thought this enough. :-/
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Isn't religion a kind of slavery to some kind of powerful overlord.
The believers are perfect when they surrender to the will of their lords and leaders.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
"Isn't religion a kind of slavery to some kind of powerful overlord."
If your implying an Omnipotent one, please let it be known, it had a hard time with iron chariots ;)
Study the symptoms not the virus...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-ZZz3DQbHA
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I would love some of that sweet caramel mmmmmmmmmm
Tamron, if you read this, send me a pm let's meet up ;)
Confederate History Month (def): a celebration of cracker trash.
... the civial war was about money. The north could not compete with the souths "free" labor. People in the north could care less about the moral or human issues of slavery.
This didn’t start with Barack Obama’s election.
"In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.
"The Pledge has been modified four times since then, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954."
The National Prayer Breakfast, has taken place since 1953
Study the symptoms not the virus...
that all coincides with the Repukes trying to dig themselves out of the McCarthy era ditch?
Though I've noticed when people are in fear or down on their luck they like to look for a way out of their predicament and there will always be someone there to help/exploit the situation.
Find the magic man in prison and your sins are forgiven.
If your a drunk AA works on occasion / Scientology works as well.
Briefly and in a tersely fashion... The wrapped in a flag guy around 1935 noted a movement, as did one of the C-street/Family founders. Coins had in god we trust going back to the civil war, though it went full force in the 50's I believe? The wars scare people and they feel better with a belief that they've got a powerful friend on their side. I believe it was KY just got spanked for their homeland security depending on god.
I could go on, but... it will not change things. Only time will. :-/
Study the symptoms not the virus...
http://www.elec-intro.com/EX/05-15-14/Christi...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
♥
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Is that like the college game of Sport F*cking, only a lot less fun?
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
FOX would show Sport F*cking with airhead anchors.
CNN would respond with Bag Balling with Candy Crowley and Wolf Blitzer. CNN would scratch heads when ratings continued dropping.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
The Confederate defenders should not be let to spew their revision of history. Never let the truth get run over.
if a jew and Nazi sympathizer were on the MSM and not only did the NS state that both sides were morally right and while doing so was condescending and repeatedly disrespectful to the jew. Can you imagine the outrage?? And while were on this comparison, can you imagine a swatztika being on a state flag? Or trotted out as a proud cultural symbol displayed all over the place?
The fact is that Obama's election has given a sense of entitlement to red states and this McDonnell proclamation shows how far it is has gone. While the right keeps crying racism is dead they simultaneously enflame and denigrate.
While he's at it, McDonnell can give the day off for JW Booth's birthday. Just call up Texas and have them change it in the history books.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
Buchanan KNEW he was wrong and most people would condemn his views. That's why he kept shouting (in that very high pitched voice) and interrupting Finney. And, of course, Chrissie did nothing to stop him. Why, if he had, he wouldn't have been invited to Patty Buchanan's next DC soiree. And EVERYONE knows Patty gives simply the best soirees in DC. (Sally Quinn, eat your heart out!)
watching known racist and anti-Semitic, Pat Buchanan, literally frothing at the mouth as he pushed the Sons of The Confederacy's revisionist history on the Civil War. John Stewart did an amazing takedown of McDonnell and friends last night on The Daily Show.
Sometimes even Mathews has the common sense to sit back and let someone make a fool of themself.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
Listen to the vidoe clip...and listen to this f*cking fool buchanan bark and shout while ANYONE ELSE talks. Can he shut his f*cking stupid mouth while others make their point??? NOT!! He's alike a barking dog, but dumber.
WHY the hell do they continue to have this old fool on the network? Does he serve any purpose? None that I can see. A balance? Jesus, find someone with a brain for balance. This idiot just embarrasses himself and degrades the discussion.
The so-called grievances of the southern states are in line with the grievances of the teabaggers today, that is why the most obvious pro-confederates are conservative republicans.
I'm sure the south did have other complaints that they fought the Civil war over, but the primary cause of the war has always been slavery. It was an unresolved issue during the continental congress and continued to be tip-toed around over the decades.
Neo-confederates try to claim that it was tariff laws which caused the war ignoring all the evidence to the contrary; various southern states have always threatened to secede especially South Carolina.
Really if they were looking to honor the confederate soldiers then they should have called it that, this sounds as if they are trying to honor the confederacy as a whole and that's where the real problem lies.
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
Secession was over Federal Government's Imperialism over states Rights fostered by the Republican Party and abhorrent and excessive taxation on the South's main Agricultural crop COTTON!
After the South finally ended Cotton taxation and Tariffs the North and it's growing textile industry were losing out to cotton bids in European markets. Republicans started reimposing higher taxes to force planters to sell cheap to Northern Mills.
Some northern states outlawed slavery but didn't free their slaves. They were allowed to instead to sell them to Southern Plantations.
Southern slave owners were White, Cherokee and other Indian tribes, and even the some 250,000 Free Blacks owned plantations and numerous slaves.
Donaldd
You've been reading the book "the south was right", or one of the F.I.G books. I suppose next you'll tell us about how black people were treated worse in the north than in the south (why did so many blacks escape to the north if they had it so good down south).
Really the escaped slaves headed to Canada because the fugitive slave laws could not touch them there.
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
The evil was not confined to the South or to whites.. it was an evil that infected us all in complicated, interlocking ways- and still does. There were surely abolitionists is the south too.
The beautiful thing about our democratic ideals is that we seek to overcome our human inclination to take advantage of our brothers and sisters. And whatever Confederate Christians want to say about heritage and culture, at the bottom of it all is the desire to maintain advantage.
Two other worthwhile books on this subject;
The state of Jones
and
The Free State of Jones
Both books tell the same story, about a man named Newton Knight who was drafted into the Confederate army against his will, later deserted and ran a pretty sucesfull rebellion against the Confederacy in the heart of Mississippi.
People have always been more complicated than they seem, there were people in the south who did not want to be a part of the Confederacy but they were shouted down by those who wanted to leave the union (sound familiar?)
The north did have slaves, but eventually gave them up as their economics were not tied so drastically to the practice, the souths economics however was, and it was the moneyed men who pushed the south towards secession and treason.
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
Missouri was a slave state and stayed in the Union, same with some other states, but there were terrible internal struggles and violence in these places too.. And slavery was at the heart of it all.. Some states dealt with their evil heritage of slavery and didn't secede. But Confederate Christians never die.
The Confederacy suffered defeat but the Union suffered greatly also.. people suffered all over our nation.. slaves suffered 100s of years and many if not all of their descendants still suffer the effects of that inhumane system.. and one could argue we all still suffer.. what else could explain this discourse..
There was chattel slavery other places in the world but by 1860, many places, like Haiti, had gotten rid of it..
I want to honor those who gave their lives and fortunes to rid us of the evil and I don't want to disrespect soldiers who thought they were defending their homes but ...
And what's with the governor's hair?
Historians will write "...and with the election of Barack Obama, America's first Black president, all of the nation's latent bigotries rose to the surface..."
Black History Month, Women's History Month, Hispanic History Month, etc. I am not surprised that they would come up with Confederate History Month and that the "celebrants" would be as offensive as possible.
Remembering and studying Confederate History has its place, and because of the disgrace of slavery, the CSA doesn't deserve a designated entire month.
** My 3rd great-grandfather was Lorenzo Trevino, Captain in the CSA Army...
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
I am a fan of history and as such I can admire (to a point) the deep convictions of many of the men who fought for the Confederacy, I'm sure plenty of them were not motivated by racism and probably also believed their cause was about more than slavery.
As a black man however I recognize that the Confederacy itself is not worthy of any honor, it's entire reason for existing (slavery and other) was based off of flawed ideas.
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
This is an interesting (to me anyway) question.
Should we honor those who fought for "wrong" causes?
Isn't it better for them to question the cause because they know they may not automatically be well received after the war just because they "served", answered the "call of duty" (all sounds very noble). But so did the Nazis, the Japanese and Saddam's Republican Guard. Should they be honored too?
If not, can some people say the Confederate army was dishonorable because they fought to preserve the same values as other famous historical oppressors?
And are we acting honorably in Iraq? Shouldn't every soldier have to worry about that question every day?
just a brief review of how some of the original settlements in the United States were founded and the eventual expansion to the horrible suffering of the native peoples (who fought back against the US - dishonorable?)...who was "honorable" and "right"...
I've seen some stuff, man. And some thangs...
Misery loves company
I am what would be considered an overall moderate and a social liberal. I am also a 5th generation Texan whose ancestors participated in both the Texas and Confederate wars for independance. My great-great grandfather came to Texas from Georgia with slaves. I can't change that. George Washingtong and many of the founding fathers owned slaves, and we still honor them. What people have to realize is that when people say things like like CSA = al Qaeda, and all Texans are rednecks, all white southernors are racists, etc, you piss off a lot of people who are totally with you on a bunch of issues. Obama received 44% of the popular vote in Texas - not bad at all. But by insulting someone's family and heritage you are not a beacon for the liberal/progressive cause to get those numbers up in 2012. Yes, speak out against racism. But just because someone invokes the Confederacy it doesn't make them a racist or return-to-slavery proponent. Yes, McDonnell was a dumbass for his statements, but don't lump everyone who has southern heritage into the same wagon. Buchanan did make a statement I agreed with - many just do not understand and equate "southern pride" with racism. Seriously, if the US army killed members of your immediate family in a distant county and burned their farm, would you greet them as liberators at your door, regardless of the issue at hand? The person who compared al Quaeda to the CSA may have had a point - when you start killing people and destroying property others tend to fight back with absolutely no regard for the politics involved.
I've seen some stuff, man. And some thangs...
any other reasons i've ever heard were just dancing around the right to own slaves as a cheap source of labor.
As slaves were counted as 3/5 a person for the purpose of apportioning Congressional districts, all of the voters in slave districts were over-represented in the House (and the Electoral College, too, since that institution is based on the number of representatives and senators). That meant that southerners- slave holders or not- votes counted more than anyone else's votes.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
If someone boasts that their great grandfather fought for the south, i'll tell them their great grandfather was a traitor and a coward.
Give me a Confederate stars and bars flag, it gets burned.
The Confederacy was an illigitimate terrorist entity, that took up arms against Americans. They fired the first shot, so they started the war. The Confederate scum were the bad guys. The Confederacy was an evil blight that needed to be wiped out- Andrew Johnson should have had Gen Lee and Jefferson Davis executed for high treason.
Davis, too. One question: Were they cowards when they fought the Mexicans wearing the US uniform?
I've seen some stuff, man. And some thangs...
The Confederates were the Teabaggers of their day. The Civil War was primarily a battle over state's rights and the powers of the Federal government. It was the idea of a federal mandate abolishing slavery that was the catalyst for that war. Whether you're talking about labor, civil rights, religion, abortion, taxation, healthcare, government spending, gun laws or any of the big issues that divide the left and the right in this country, it always comes down to this "state's sovereignty" battle. The Republic Party has been for decades the (ironically enough) Bring Back the Confederacy Party. The teabaggers and their ilk are just the result of a lot of sore losers in the South never accepting defeat of the Confederacy in good faith. That attitude has been allowed to fester and grow for generations and here we are. Predictably enough, it's when we elect a black president from Illinois that they come out from under their rocks with their pitchforks and show us who they really are.
we don't have a say in the running of the country. A lot of people don't want immigration from dysfunctional countries. The assassination of police and judges happening in Mexico is increasingly likely to start occuring in US states that border Mexico. For people to be free, the center has to be broken.
I say give the ass-backwards hethens the South, and be done with them.
As Pat said, people like their state government and increasingly dislike the Feds. The out of control piling on of debt by the center, the huge number of immigrants, both legal and illegal, being allowed into the country. Best for states to drop out of the federal system.
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