Matthews on Obama's Speech at West Point: He 'Went to Maybe the Enemy Camp Tonight'
By Heather Wednesday Dec 02, 2009 8:00am
Chris Matthews with possibly the stupidest comment of the night after Obama's speech at West Point. A military installation is "the enemy camp" Chris? Unbelievable.
Matthews: Well I think that’s true of most wars, you start with a lot of excitement and you know I always remember that scene in Gone With the Wind where all the Rebels are so excited about going to war with the North, a country they can’t beat because of its industrial advantage and population advantage—they were going to lose that war eventually. It seems like in this case there isn’t a lot of excitement.
I watched those Cadets, they were young kids, men and women who were committed to serving their country professionally and must be said as officers and I didn’t see much excitement but among the older people there, I saw if not resentment, skepticism. I didn’t see a lot of warmth in that crowd out there the President chose to address tonight. And I thought that was interesting. He went to maybe the enemy camp tonight to make his case.
I mean that’s where Paul Wolfowitz used to write speeches for, back in the old Bush days. That’s where he went to rabble rouse the “we’re going to democratize the world” campaign back in ’02. So I thought it was a strange venue.
Maddow: I think we’re used to, I think you’re right Chris that we are used to seeing real bumper sticker, jingoistic speeches by George W. Bush frankly in front of military audiences. I think one important observation made today is how many times he spoke before military audiences, really in a departure from every president who came before him. Dana Milbank had a great article about that today in the Washington Post and Bush did that because he liked to get that adulation from the military politically and I’m guessing personally. President Obama today talking about balancing the military against our other needs as a nation is an anti-bumper sticker. It’s not the kind of thing that brings crowds to their feet. It may in fact be the most adult thing that’s ever been told to an American, a modern American audience on a military issue.
Matthews was already back tracking a bit later in the evening. He knows he's going to get whacked for this one and rightfully so. His explanation wasn't much better. Just because the neo-cons have used and abused our military and their installations as props doesn't make it the "enemy camp" when a Democratic president goes there.
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cheney's curlies from his teeth. he's been gorging himself on the bush lately as well. he's absolutely salivating with hatred for Obama. I guess he has marching orders from the MSNBC political director who delared that everything wuld be Obama's fault after last election day. tweety is living up to it.
tweety might also be trying to suck up to the anticipated new master from Comcast, a newtwork that excludes msnbc broadcasts of Olberman and Maddow.
i have comcast and just watched countdown and trms on my dvr...
in my area, it is suppressed.
..you don't get MSNBC at all. You can get faux or cnn or shopping channels but no MSNBC. You have to have a cable box which is an additional charge. Personally, the cable provider could keep most of the crap they serve up especially faux and give me MSNBC but that's not going to happen.
and I get MSNBC just fine.
obama for this...
Plenty are already flaming him here. Oh, sorry, you said blame, not flame.
Chris Matthews sometimes makes the stupidest comments, and this is one example. I saw those faces, and surely don't know what he's talking about. The cadets appeared to be listening intently. It was a somber occasion, and I'm sure they have mixed emotions. They were being told they were being sent to war by their commander in chief, not about what wonderful gifts they might receive at Christmas. Obama is caught in a "catch 22". He's been left to clean up the mess from his predecessor. Clearly, he wants to get out of Afghanistan, but it would be totally irresponsible to cut bait and make a dash for it.
Agreed. Mathews saw in those faces what he wanted to see. What I saw was the most concentrated group of disciplined and bright young men and women in this country. No heckling, rolling of eyes, or shout-outs from this group – of that you could be sure. Mathews confuses seriousness with skepticism, but Mathews is rarely serious.
..too much time was spent panning the audience to find people with their eyes closed as if "sleeping". She blamed MSNBC for that and I told her it was the feed and not some liberal media plot to discredit the President. Then I kept flipping back and forth from Network to Network to MSNBC and all the images were the same, NO - it was a plot to show sleeping soldiers.
but my guess is it is getting damn close to finals.
... it's what the media calls a 'pool' camera. You don't have every network descend upon West Point, you send ONE crew/field producer, and the feed is shared.
This is common where space is a consideration, or the venue is select/secure, such as a courtroom.
..but sometimes, in arguments and/or discussions with my wife..well, I didn't know I had to get married to find out how wrong I am most of the time.
I wonder what Chris sees when he looks into the eyes of his
BFF, Tom De Lay?
Chris makes the case for why some people MUST take Early Retirement.
Although he cannot personally monitor the thighs of those in the crowd for passing tingles, he does look to see if there are puddles of tinkle at their feet. No visible puddle, no crowd excitement.
It works for him personally so it's broadcast science. So get over it you grumpy guys.
"Although he cannot personally monitor the thighs of those in the crowd for passing tingles, he does look to see if there are puddles of tinkle at their feet."
How much longer before Matthews announces he has accepted a position with Fox Noise??
... his master hasn't given him permission to do so.
... it's because West Point is supposed to be TEACHING these young men and women to be soldiers, not just knuckle-dragging robots? And that this isn't a rah-rah moment for them, but a serious challenge which they must rise to face?
And, really, if you want to spew Cheney's talking points, just quit and have MSNBC give your slot to Dick's little darling, Lizzie the Ax-Murderer.
What an irresponsible, obnoxious statement to make. The POTUS is the Commander in Chief and talking about how west point cadets are "the enemy" just because the prez is a Democrat is more than just wrong, it's reckless and dangerous.
It's not just that Matthews is supporting the same jingoistic culture of "republican military" and further silencing military members who happen to lean to the left, it's that he's further fanning the flames of the concept that the politics of the military will override the responsibility and honor of the military, which is to serve dutifully under the commander in chief.
Is Matthews seriously taking his journalistic queues from the little shitsquirts at NewsMax who want a military coup against Obama?
that was supposed to be its own comment, not a reply. :D
It just smacks so much of Johnson & Nixon. I cannot believe he is continuing the insanity started by moe larry and curley.
I think I have about lost all hope that anyone in our current government will ever do the right thing!
I am just disgusted with all this crap, lies, double talk and bullshit. By god I want to see some change.
march 20th 2010 there is going to be a march on Washington. Lets make it the biggest one ever seen.
... when one discovers one is riding a dead horse, you should dismount.
Our current policy seems to be harnessing additional dead horses together for increased speed.
Supporting "marches" in cities across the country. I'm in L.A. now and I'd sooner drive to The Federal Building in Westwood, which is a 10 minute drive from my front door, than fly cross country to D.C., rent a car, get a hotel and pay for meals out...not to mention losing time from work...if you're lucky enough to even HAVE a job!
By the time March of 2010 rolls around I have a sneaking suspicion there will be even fewer Americans who are in a financial position to trek cross country in order to attend a demonstration.
Better to involve the entire country in a demonstration than to only have a few thousand show up on a cold winter's day in D.C.
Think globally, act locally.
Round up the willing.
there was also a segment on his early program where he played a clip from some teevee show (prolly 24) of a society gal attending some white house function -- who was really a suicide bomber as they showed her fiddling with her ied under the table while casually chatting up the other wdc swells at her table. little did they know they would be hamburger within minutes....
just more degradation from the national political media magpies.
Just because the neo-cons have used and abused our military and their installations as props doesn't make it the "enemy camp" when a Democratic president goes there.
No, but streaming Rush on Armed Forces radio 24/7 may have made it so.
He has lost weight and his eyes were very red. He has thrown his body and soul into this but unfortunately his decisions have been very disappointing. Bush always looked rested and in the best of health and completely lacked any kind of empathy and humanity.
posing for video cameras while doing brush clearing exercises
improves the outer self without balancing the chakra.
what you meant by chakra. If I understand the definition correctly, Bush didn't have a chakra to begin with :)
... the seven energy centers of the body, arrayed from crown of the head, third eye, throat, heart, navel, base of spine, and your genitals.
It's not that you wouldn't have them, they'd simply be out of balance, so the flow of energy through your body and connecting you to both the earth and the spirit realm is blocked at some point, manifesting in physical ills, emotional turmoil, etc.
rotate your spiritual tires? Were Bush's pretzels the wrong color?
That's funny.
but I kind of stole it from National Lampoon. They were talking about Scientology, however, and it was long ago. Spiritual valve job and astral windshield cleaning for the price of a Buick as I recall.
"Bush always looked rested and in the best of health and completely lacked any kind of empathy and humanity."
The things he didn't understand he never let bother him: Cheney was always hiding in the rose bushes to cover his ass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cip0jbZWzY
I have benn saying since the first half of 2008 what this is:
status quObama, change you can pretend in.
It is now more true than ever, although the pretending is getting somewhat more difficult.
Time will tell how the happy rabbits hip and hop.
... Campaign 2012 will be full of Republicans reminding us how Obama failed, because 'he didn't listen to us.'
Nothing's going to change as long as we keep electing the rich and powerful to protect the rich and powerful.
Campaign 2012:
New and Improved Change you can pretend in.
"Hey, Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!"
..I need another hat!
or do you HOPE the one you have holds on.
Sorry, I had to use those two words before the Obama team copyrights them and start going lawsuit happy as a means to pay off the federal deficit.
LOL
when Obama is throwing the troops under the bus in his support of PNAC and the MICC maybe Matthews has a point.
...Hannity, etc. Just like with those right wing cocksuckers, expect the worst and you won't be disappointed.
Once again C & L and the happy rabbits miss the point.
Talking about the pundits is not talking about what is important.
The ENEMY is the über Imperial Capitalists.
They are the enemy of democracy everywhere.
Would anyone on the MSM say such a thing.
Would Obama say such a thing, not a chance, he is their new front man.
Since WWII, the United States is the greatest sponsor of State Terrorism bar none.
50 democratically elected governments overthrown, 30 liberation movements suppressed.
Would anyone on the MSM say such things.
Would Obama say such things, check the early campaign speeches, if he was at all close it was closer than he will every be again.
Glenn Greenwald 12/02/09 The commendably missing element from Obama's speech here
John Pilger, 7/04/09, Obama and Empire here
You're not alone.
Unfortunately, most people don't wan't to talk about that. Not just the media, most people.
To do so would force us to admit things that make us very uncomfortable:
1. We are not free. Freedom of the Press, Assembly, and Speech have been destroyed except for those who agree with corporate goals
2. We are an empire. Not a shining beacon of freedom. We are an empire. We do nasty things to the world because we want to dominate it for our own financial gain. We are no different than the european colonial powers who used "making the world a better place" as an excuse to rape population after population.
3. We are in Afghanistan today because the future economic system in that region of the world is under threat. Many rich and powerful people internationally have huge investments in oil and NG pipelines in Afghanistan that would carry the stuff to the Black Sea, cutting Russia out of the club. Yeah, folks we are sending boys to die for oil again. If Pakistan goes, the whole region would be off-limits to investment or development...aka a lot of rich people would be screwed.
So just imagine when we ferriners try to point that out. I'm always ducking flying objects. (not literally)
People don't like Zbignew Brzezinski, but I do believe he is correct: the battle for Central Aisan riches, and hegemony over those is ON.
did pretty well...then after he was done, I played video games.
I fully understood everything that was said, and didn't need Tweety or anyone else to translate for me.
... that follows the line, "Here to tell us what it all means is our political analyst/foreign affairs expert/retired general ..."
ESPECIALLY after a big speech like that.
who were forced to retire after only making Major or being indicted before they made full Colonel.
"Operation Tailhook"?
came to mind first. In Tailhook most of the felons would have been Captains and Commanders. Except Marines who could fly, Unlike Ollie, who was a Marine who could...
you almost rhymed.
FOX believes its job is to tell you what to think.
MSNBC believes its job is to tell you what the audience thinks.
lol!
..preferring to read the words and promises vs. hearing the passion within. I did watch and all I care about is whether our troops will begin to come home at some point, sooner rather that later.
I want them to get home ASAP.
to be willing to disagree with Obama when he sends them to die over there?
and if they're home...they wouldn't be gettin sent back...
But yes...
so what now....
Greta VanSustren at FOXaganda was grinning like the cat that swallowed the canary over this comment.
...that canary being Tweety.
Inserting the cat in her grin was covered by her FOX insurance.
The canary was a pre existing condition.
"Just because the neo-cons have used and abused our military and their installations as props doesn't make it the "enemy camp" when a Democratic president goes there."
Who was it that went to Ft. Bragg and Fort Hood to push their "book"?
DAMN that is a smart woman. I so love Rachel.
Lost in all the "weakness, dithering" BS being flung about this was BO's comment that the request for additional troops from McCrystal was for 2010. He already sent additional troops in response to a longstanding (ignored by Bush) request after inauguration. They have used the time run up to the requested date to carefully figure out what to do about this shit mess left to them by Bush and his chickenhawk congress. There are no good solutions. The days of "saddle up the posse" and bashing away are over, at least with a volunteer army. A draft is the only solution after this, as our military is stretched beyond it's limit. Maybe then you'll see the kind of anti-war sentiment we had in the 60's, instead of this fake outrage that is convenient for political smearing.
I was watching, and actually the "enemy camp" didn't strike me as odd when he said. Mainly because Matthews gets going on mini-rants and tongue proceedes brain and even I kind of mentally turn him off after about 15 seconds of it.....
Anyway, it was a figure of speech, albeit unfortunate. But no harm done or intended.
I can't watch Matthews spitting out his ignorance, stupidity and love for the Reslug party.
"Well I think that’s true of most wars, you start with a lot of excitement and you know I always remember that scene in Gone With the Wind where all the Rebels are so excited about going to war with the North, a country they can’t beat . . ."
This psychotic rambling is scary on many levels:
1. Pop culture as a framework for making a point
2. War and excitement used in the same sentence
3. ". . . the North, a COUNTRY they can't beat . . ."
How about setting the criteria for any future draft to inlcude old, white, chickenshit, warmongering, lip flapping courtiers as #1 candidates?
Actually, I thought it a good reference but poor analogy. I don't mind using Pop culture any more than I do using classical.
.
Dear Chris Matthews,
The US Military is NOT the enemy...
... Quit spitting in their faces.
.
Sure, West Pointers are being trained for war. But here was Obama telling them they'd really be going. It's serious, real-life and -death business, not a Hollywood movie where of course everything is over-dramatized or even distorted for dramatic effect. I think Matthews' mouth moves before his brain is engaged. Repeatedly.
you may be on to something there.
Obama was speaking at West Point. You know. A military academy. A place where cadets are taught reserve and respect. He wasn't giving a speech at a frat house at the University of Alabama. Besides all that, the CBS feed at the end showed Obama being mobbed by cadets -- shaking hands, posing for photos.
Matthews should've known better.
of Alabama."
I don't think he would be SPEAKING at any of those. Unless, of course, after being spoken to.
Nice job pointing out how stupid Matthews comment was. The guy is increasingly irrelevant.
Maddow could have saved her breath and just said the lack of enthusiasm from the crowd was due to the fact they have no confidence in Obama`s leadership skills and this rambling, incoherent speech didn`t do anything to change that.
What speech were you watching?
One of bush 43's retarded speeches?
In a car wreck kind of way... LOL
until he decided to escalate a lost ignoble cause.
The media, the congress and now Obama continue to talk about anything but the real issue about the wars.
What is the point?
How does military action help acheive the goal?
The discussion always floats around the costs, the vague idea of security, the need for vengenance and the desire to stamp out radicalism.
But there is little discussion of what we really want to accomplish and how "victory" is defined.
Clearly, it is impossible to win a war of ideas with military force. Every Al Queda (if any left) or Taliban or any of the vaguely identified "enemies" that we kill or rendition or capture spawns more to replace them.
American and our developed allies need to focus on and address the fundamental arguments of the radicals. We need to be providing clear examples of how holy war is a losing proposition for islam and christianity. Jihad is by definition a dead end.
Policies like war and surges and backing up corrupt puppets like Karzai and Saud and Sharon ultimately undermine our real needs and objectives.
We need to demonstrate self determination, religious tolerance and co-existence. We need to foster environments where the underdeveloped populations can see a brighter future as an alternative to jihad and suicide.
alas, not much hope for that kind of change.
So because the audience wasn't stamping its feet and yelling "USA! USA!", the speech was a failure?
They're serving West Point cadets, for God's sake. They are already signed up to serve and die if necessary (which some of them, no doubt, will do in Afghanistan).
They live under a very strict code of conduct. Does it not occur to Matthews that they respect their president, and have very good reason to pay careful attention to what he says?
Our national media has decided that a Democratic president is not a legitmate Commander in Chief of our military. Only Republicans are qualified to give orders or send troops in to battle.
Thanks. Got it.
... apparently most Republicans are not qualified to go to battle. Or could not be bothered with learning via military experience, before giving said orders.
... as some even-handed moderate need to take the blinders and earmuffs off. He's a bleating conservative suck-up.
I despise him -- and his braying voice. I do wonder sometimes if he's bipolar.
BID
my jaws dropped when i heard matthews say that. west point is enemy territory? what if he had gone to afghanistan? would that be friendly territory. i rarely watch his show anymore, and it is comments like this that have tuned me out of his tv program
Ah, and so the usual Chris Matthews shift from tepid defense of Democrats in off election years, when it doesn't matter, to virulent Dem bashing and Rep glorification during election years, when it does matter, begins in earnest. And we're still three weeks away from the official election year.
Chris has found his trigger excuse for his usual shift, too; Obama's comment that America is now less "innocent" than when FDR was commander in chief.
Chris wants mainstream media to twist that comment the way he twisted it last night, that it was Obama saying today's America is more "guilty" than "innocent", that America has more to apologize for now than we did in FDR's day...
Limbaugh/Hannity/Beck/O'Reilly/Boehner/McConnell should send a love note to Matthews for that one.
um...Chris...Obama's reference to a more "innocent" time in the past meant the same thing as every comment by every commentator and writer in history about yesteryear being more "innocent" times than today; it was a reference to "innocence vs experience" not "innocence vs guilt".
You know, as in to a great extent we lost our virginity...our "innocence"...on 9/11 in a way we hadn't before.
That was a great Dem bashing/Republican glorifying talking point, though, Chris, and I'm sure they'll be using it next year. Maybe even better than the one about West Point cadets being the "enemy" of Democrats.
is the correct one.
For such a "Christian" society as ours, the fact that admission of guilt and the seeking of repentance are viewed as "mortal sins" reeks of hypocrisy to tell you the truth.
I have to disagree with a lot of people here. If you think the military is politically neutral, you are nuts. I spent over a decade in the army, and for every anti-Iraq War veteran you highlight here, or conscientious objector, or left-leaning soldier, or "End don't ask don't tell" general, there are probably 5 on the other side. The reason the cadets don't roll their eyes or shout out is not because of agreement with Obama, or neutrality, but because they will get hammered if they do. There is a reason they are cadets at West Point and not at Harvard or Yale. There are progressive people in the army, but they are no where near the numbers you might be hoping for. An Army Times poll found 70% of all army personnel self identified as conservative. And I don't remember the percent, but amongst career personnel, that number is actually higher. One of my best friends when I was an officer was "openly" liberal and an atheist...he left after he finished his initial obligation because he felt so uncomfortable.
They wheel him out onto the set, and switch him on right before the show goes live. His opinion on any given issue is determined by analysis of the data presented during each show. When it's over, they switch him off and erase the memory card, and wheel him back into the broom closet where he's stored until they need him again.
that using the teevee to get you political information WILL make you stupider.
He's an overpaid babbling dimwit.
who facilitated the Bush fraud that was perpetrated on America should be retired.
They have ZERO credibility.
During the speech, the cadets looked like they were paying attention (I was impressed by this -- most Americans their age would have been showing their distraction, although these folks probably don't spend their Freshman English classes on Face Book like some students at regular universities), and once someone broke through and started applauding at one point late-ish in the speech, Obama got repeated rounds of applause.
After the speech, those cadets who gathered around Obama, shaking his hand, getting pictures with him, sure looked surly to me. Clearly the enemy camp. I was thinking as I watched that the Fox & Fiends were probably crying in their hankies over that.
Seems to me it was an appropriate venue and Obama was well-received. Matthews=idiot, and I wish the right wingers would stop insulting liberals by saying he's one of them.
Listen up children you all got a free ride education in the Army to fucking fight and die. What is it about this career choice that you all don't get?
If you want to be a dentist but feint at the site of blood or an astronaut who is claustrophobic or a peanut farmer allergic to nuts or a window washer afraid of heights then you need to change careers or better yet, don't enter the field in the first place and save us the tax dollars and spare us from your belly ache bitching.
Now get out there and fight, Make your country proud and wipe those tears you pack of pussies.
It seemed pretty obvious that they were a little cool at first... like they were thinkin'... OK, Mr. President... Let's see what ya got!
By the end of Obama's comments they were applauding easily with some of his comments, and they were thinking... "Here's a president who isn' going to FUCK US OVER for some cheep political points and sacrifice us for his corporate supporters! I predict that our military will grow to LIKE abd TRUST Obama... and we will all soon see the bullshit in the urban legend that the military only VOTES Republican.
Hell yes, it is time to show the world that Democrats can be every bit the war criminal that the Republicans can.
I'm hypersensitive now, can't even watch Olbermann. Rachel is still ok, but she's on too late. I'd rather read my news from various Internet sources, it reduces my anxiety. TV raises it. Except for The Daily Show with Jon Stewart and The Colbert Report, that's the best way to get my news, from these two national treasures.
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