Matt Taibbi: No Public Option Will Mean a Revolt Among Progressives
By Heather Tuesday Aug 18, 2009 3:00pm
Rachel Maddow talks to Matt Taibbi about what is going to happen to the Democratic Party if the White House settles for a bill with no public option. Taibbi feels that this is the moment the progressive wing of the party draws a line in the sand. They note that Bernie Sanders in the Senate and Anthony Weiner in the House have both said that if there's no public option, there will be no bill at all.
Taibbi thinks a deal was cut from the beginning between the White House and the insurance and pharmaceutical industries and that they never intended to have a public option. As both Taibbi and Maddow note it doesn't matter what the Democrats do, they're not going to get any Republican support for the health care bill, so wooing Republicans doesn't make any sense.
Taibbi has an article coming out at Rolling Stone Friday titled Sick and Wrong: How Washington is Screwing up Health Care Reform and Why It May Take a Revolt to Fix It. Sounds about right.
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No Public Option means revolt among progressives? This title would seem to indicate unfamiliarity with Taibbi's work, not to mention an overly optimistic view of the progressive grassroots. Clinton sold out his base on healthcare (and gays, poor people, unions, environmentalists....the list goes on) to focus on bombing, and cozying up to the Gingrich congress, and his base stayed with him....throughout everything!
Where is our Healthcare-Ross Perot when you need him.
for not betraying his true progresive roots.
Obama never was a "Progressive" - in fact, he was DLC until Black Commentator exposed his ass:
http://www.blackcommentator.com/47/47_cover.html
http://www.blackcommentator.com/48/48_cover.html
Once again, the mistake has been made that because you're African-American, Latino, Asian, women, gays and lesbians, that your protected group status automatically translates into being PROGRESSIVE; now, you're finding out that your ethnicity or race, gender or sexual identity, does NOT mean you have a progressive ideology, as progressivism has been defined.
We've been taken for a ride.
Obama never even presented himself as a progressive. Never. All his statements were middle-of-the-road moderate conservative, like nearly all Democrats. He had tremendous support from Wall Street, for good reason: he is fully on their side, always has been, always will be. So far he's not even attempted anything truly progressive - not on health care, not on gay rights, definitely not on foreign policy, not on the environment.
And Democrats will still fall in line behind him and vote for standard corporate dems at the midterm elections, because they're the "lesser of two evils" & "we can't let dems lose the majority."
Lesser of two evils is still evil, though, people.
What do you suggest. Do you have any ideas or do you just like to throw rocks?
I damn never will give the Republicans a chance if I can help it! Blue Dogs are on the shit list too.
You are right on one account. Obama never presented himself as a Progressive.
By the way, don't generalize too much less you get egg on your face.
Either increase the number of Progressive Democrats in Congress or build a strong progressive third party. That's the change we can believe in. Obama is just a stepping stone.
illustrates why this system is broken and will not fixed until it is radically changed. The country IS on the left on the issues themselves. Not because of any ideological reasons, because the policies are obviously better and the "end of history" policies have been disasters. It's pretty pathetic, and says a lot about our system, that in many cases 75% of the people will want certain policy positions and the positions aren't even CONSIDERED in government. How in the world can we sit back and not look at fundamentally changing the system when there the system allows such differences in public opinion and government policy. The sytem was set up to make democracy impossible, they thought republicanism was far better. Can you run your life better, by having a direct say in government, or do you need to elect better offs who will create these policies for you?
As I said, the people are already on the left on the issues themselves, and they're doing this with no true leftist voice in the media and in either party, which says something about the strenght of the positions the traditional left backs. What is more interesting though is people's irrational belief of working within the system while assuming no fundamental change to the system itself is needed. Just vote the right person into office and all will be better. NO! Change the constitution to allow direct participation and power by the general public over the functioning of government and the crooks in government. Stop begging people you vote into office to listen to you, fight to have a say over what they do. Think in the long term, give new ideas a chance. This all gets so freaking old pretty quick and it never stops. It never will until something different is tried.
Make sure to vote for the most left wing guy in the Primary. don't pull another 2006 and vote for the establishment guy, (Casey, Clinton) when offered a chance between him and a decent fellow (Pennachio, Tasini/Howie Hawkins), and a ....ptoooeeyyy..... "ELECTABLE" candidate (read right wing). Don't let the so-called moderate wing of the party give lefties shit. Remember Upton Sinclair(who worked within the party and then got hung out to dry), or George McGovern, remember Jesse Jackson, hell, Howard Dean, who was obsessed with balanced budgets and a-ok-with the NRA. He was reasonably establishment, but actually seemed to care about healthcare, ending the war, and not stabbing the grassroots and the back. Never have I seen such a validation of this.
http://www.buffalobeast.com/106/low_post_off_...
Threaten to leave, and actually mean it. I mean, maybe about a third of the Democratic party gives a shit about it's base (PDA). Leave the Blue dogs and the moderates
Then, should the right take over, (which they have now anyway) agitate on a grassroots level, call congressman, send snail mail, which they listen to. encourage filibusters. Progs would be better off with a minority of say 45 in the senate with maybe 2 or 3 Mike Gravel's, Wayne Morse's, Frank Church's, or God willing a Jim Abourezk, than 60 dems with what, half? in the pocket of wall street. If the town halls have proved anything, a small belligerent minority can steer the terms of debate. What then can a pissed of majority do. And with most of the population behind some form of Universal healthcare, We're not a minority.
Don't accept the terms of debate, change them. And stop covering the Dems asses. Let them cover ours....with Universal govt guaranteed medical care.
i know I kind of rambled, but I really just needed to vent.
One more thing, can we please stop making Ralph Nader a patsy for Jeb Bush. The latter stole the election, and to blame the Former is just buying into the line of the party's right wing, and the establishment media.
The Democratic Party as a whole SUCKS!!!!!
When are people gonna WAKE THE "F" UP & Realize the Democratic Party are a CORPORATE PARTY RUN by the DLC, Corporate-Wing, Republican-lite, Reagan wannabes.....
Obama was fond of PRAISING REAGAN during the CAMPAIGN and dimwit "liberals and progressives" sat passively as the president gave Reagan all that adulation!!!
So, reap what you all SOW.....Obama LOVES Reagan and can hardly say the name of Martin Luther King, Jr.....
Gimme a break already and STOP all of your CROCODILE TEARS!!!!!!
Himself as a right wing republican either...
Obama made promises and I now believe he had no intentions of filling those campaign promises.
What is there still over 130,000 troops in Iraq. and Now just how many will he increase in Afghanistan.
(this would be enough to pay for the health bill)
Obama now says he will not renegotiate the free trade bill which has outsourced at least 1 billion jobs overseas.
Obama said he would eliminate the tax cut given to the wealth under Bush's administration that would to pay for this health bill.
Obama and Emanuel say they will move away from the left , and now they are moving it close to the right wingers..
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promi...
1 billion jobs? Seems like an awful lot for a country with a population that's slightly over 300 million to have had in the first place. Take away the retirees and the kids not of working age, and every American would have had between 4 and 5 jobs at one time before outsourcing began.
a revolt by independents too..Both sides of the aisle are vulnerable to being removed if they preceed to block real reform..Call them 1.800.828.0498 or 1.866.220.0044.
83% want a public option....The press is pushing co-ops which are a non issue---if it was effective it would be all over the USA by now!
D,,, well they are not signing up for a co-op...
We might have been better off if that was the health plan Bush and Cheney had...
the only people I ever hear refer to Obama as "King" or "Messiah" or "Saviour" etc...are rightwingers or people who *didn't* vote for him.
the debate. Pretty close in character with and to the wingnuts, I'd say.
You are not invited to Iceland.
However, my central point, that his conservatism was conveniently ignored throughout the whole election by progressives, in favor of an attitude of ...what? victory for a dem no matter what? Anybody But Palin?, who now seem somewhat surprised at his willingness to "surrender" to the right, remains valid.
And No I am not a right winger, yes I *didn't* vote for him.
.....and what's with the asterisks? whatever happened to good old quote marks?
What part of the public option, which was a central tenet to his vision for health care reform, is "conservative"? How about the speeches about holding wall streets feet to the fire, or pulling troops out of Iraq, or reforming the credit card companies? He most certainly did not run as a conservative. I was fucking there listening to the words coming out of his mouth. He was no flaming liberal, but he certainly is revealing himself to be something other than the candidate who ran for office. No, he used progressives to get elected, plain and simple.
his actual record was fairly moderate to moderate conservative, as . Virtually identical on key points to Hillary. He continually voted to fund the war, and the bailout of wall street. all this has been well documented. Political Junkie posted some links.
There was a telling moment in the campaign which has stayed with me ever since I saw it. Taibbi, working with Real Time, interviewing a Hillary supporter. He asked about Hillary and Nafta which she opposed. Taibbi confronted her with Hillary's vote to extend it to Peru, and the woman (this was in Youngstown by the way) lectured him on the virtues of the Global economy and then chided him for his Naivete.
I saw this exact same thing among the Obama supporters. He was the antiwar candidate, the one who supposedly supported a more liberal foreign policy, this was despite voting for continued Iraq war funding, and wanting to expand the Afghan war. On certain things, a sense of betrayal is justified I suppose,
but i 've gotten off topic. With all the money he was taking from the insurance industry, with the dems record, you could see it coming a mile away.
Good points. Obamas record does not match his rhetoric. Obama or Clinton weren't the choices I wanted. However I knew Hillary would be strong armed by the right and Kucinich had a snowballs chance of winning and with the strong lurch right over the past 30 years, I was voting for anyone that would get the GOP out.
:-l
I actually voted for Gravel, just because I wanted him to make a semi-decent showing. Fat lot of good it did me.
Truth be told I felt a wave of relief when Obama won. At least it meant we wouldn't have to fight WW3...and it did keep that horribly gauche Sarah Palin out of the white house.
Don't apologize for them.
But Obama promise a change and a transparent and a health plan..
Obama with the aid of his group , Emanuel , blue dogs have given us neither of these..
When you bend over backward to kiss someone's butt , then it should not surprise you when they kick you in the b...s.
So why does Obama keep doing this with the republicans and the blue dog republican cheer leaders..
Why did Obama promise us change and now looks as if he is giving us a 3rd term of Bush and Cheney.
By the way if you didn't vote for Obama then what does this prove about your choice...
I do believe now more than ever that progressives have learned to never again vote for someone who is a Democrat but yet doesn't act like one.
I do see a revolt happening if Obama continues to cozy up to the pharm/insurance industries. This is definitely a time in history where you will see Democrats either NOT voting for Obama or simply not voting at all.
Never have I seen so many disgruntled Obama voters who have said, NEVER AGAIN will I vote for Obama if he continues this bs.
COUNTRY OVER PARTY!
Looks like somebody picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue. I hope Taibbi is right, it's time for progressives to show America some resolve.
someone who will speak for issues that are being kept off the table, like for...I don't know a German or Dutch style Hybrid system.
Bob Rubin suggested a march on Washington and I am all for it. Even if we have marches in all major cities, on the same day, I am for it.
Anytime. If those Teabaggin' losers can organize a march on Washington so can we.
To have a presence in ALL major cities, including D.C.
Even in smaller cities so even folks who cannot get away can participate.
.. and if you cant march write letters to the editors of the local papers ..
Marches smarches! Until the guilotine pulls up in front of their homes, these arrogant prima-donna's aren't going to do shit.
The 2nd revolution is shaping up though - removing bluedogs from the party of FDR. The idiot repukes are toast. The battle will be between the corporate whores (bluedogs), and the "people's party" representatives.
The next revolution will be just like the last one: led by well-armed disgruntled capitalists. I'll be busy looking for political asylum in a third world country.
HR 676 Single Payer, a la Medicare for all is the MINIMUM.
The 'public option' is flim flam.
Beware Greeks bearing gift…
Beware Democrats claiming reform…
Yup. Baucus and Grassley don't get to write the legislation.
Thom Hartmann wrote a Letter to Obama asking that all Americans be allowed to buy into Medicare, paying precisely what Medicare would cost for them. Suggested charging a bit extra to subsidize those under 200% of poverty level.
And Representative Anthony Weiner (D-NY) did a great job of presenting and defending "Medicare For All" on Joe Scarborough's Morning Joe - left Scarborough speechless (his own words!).
Rep. Anthony Weiner Discusses Public Option Health Care Reform on Morning Joe - PT 1
Rep. Anthony Weiner Discusses Public Option Health Care Reform on Morning Joe - PT 2
And I agree with Weiner (and you, apparently!) if we can't get HR676 then we're probably better off without any "reform."
Every one of these *angry* progressives will vote for a bill that doesn't include a public option. I guarantee it.
And I think you're wrong.
:-P
Suppose the final bill actually has a few significant measures - for example, a ban on coverage denial due to pre-existing conditions - but no public option? You honestly believe any Democrat will vote against it? I don't see it happening, and neither does Nancy Pelosi, which is why she laughed at the idea.
Lovely.
Suppose, if you will, that in exchange for that clause, you pay $2500 per month because there is no true public option to compete. No price control whatsoever.
What good is the pre-existing condition "denial" clause?
The final bill will include an outright BAN on negotiating drug prices. I didn't see a single Democrat say they will vote against a healthcare bill over that, and none will vote against a bill that doesn't include a public option.
They can just tack on some military appropriations for the glorious wars and anyone who votes against it is unpatriotic. Problem solved.
:-l
but I'm not too optimistic
:(
For these links!!
I'd like to see Crooksandliars put these up in a thread!
I was blown away by the utter simplicity of Hartmann's suggestion.
And really impressed by Weiner on Morning Joe.
.. and you're welcome :)
Anthony back on thursday so he can bone up on his wingnut talking points, Good job Rep Weiner
My what a dunce.
Weiner: What does private insurance bring to health care (hint -- high overhead and profits).
Joe: I am stunned that you are advocating a complete government takeover of health care.
How can people that stupid get their own television shows? It's amazing.
Joe can't answer the question because he can't conceive of anything being done without someone making a profit on it (preferably by screwing someone). Scarborough can't tell the difference between, say, a new toaster oven and health care.
It isn't possible to have an intelligent discussion when someone like Joe is sitting on one side of the table.
This is what is so pathetic about conservatives: you could demonstrate to them that a government run health care system would lower costs for everyone; provide care to everyone; result in better health outcomes; reduce the federal deficit; make the US more competitive economically; and give people much greater freedom in their lives and they would oppose it because no one is making a profit off someone else.
I agree with Tiabbi. There will be a revolt and there will be no reform bill without a public option. This is personal to the grassroots that worked their tails off for Obama. They invested themselves in his Presidency. This is not true of Clinton. This was a different election. Promises were made and we expect them to be fulfilled and not given away to the GOP and corporate hacks. Today, a union spokesman said the unions will sit out the next election if the DEMs back down.
Yup. The grassroots may not have gotten Obama elected, but they sure as shit got him the nomination.
hopefully Gravel'll still be around and Kucinich will be a senator.
25 clams for his reelection campaign...
He was my first choice for prez.
....is willing to go. How long are they willing to fight?
But you have the added problem of the Blue Dogs, who owe nothing to progs. The Max Baucus problem (mad old Bob Kelleher would have been a vast improvement, but alas, he put an R next to his name on the ballot slip),
and what of the public option? how is it to be prevented from being transformed into Hillarycare (Corporate Welfare)
but hey, the glass is always half empty to me....and cracked and leaking :-}
Meet you at the barricades.
I'm all for removing bluedogs and corporate whores from the party of FDR. But let's remember FDR wasn't all that progressive either, until the circumstances he faced and the progressives of the time forced him to be. Obama will be only as good as we force him to be.
Lilly Belle, you hit the nail on the head with this comment:
"Obama will be only as good as we force him to be."
Because he really expects African-Americans to give him a free ride, and I, for one, am offended that he believes Black people shouldn't hold him to the same standards that everyone else will.
And I don't think it's racist for white people to call him out on his backtracking - trust me, as an African-American who voted for him, I get it with both barrels when I call him out on backing down or selling out.
I have long quit celebrating Black Faces in High Places when they use their high place to screw over people like me and think I'm not supposed to scream "foul" when they do it.
I will hold Obama to the same damn standards as I have done every POTUS since I first voted for Carter in 1980. And no, this isn't about race, but it is about how some members of my own race are willing to cut this brotha some slack because he's African-American; I hold no truck with that and I've fought too damned hard to advance civil rights to see it derailed because the first Black POTUS is trying to sell out to the corporate whores who bankrolled him.
I knew when he appointed Tim Geithner to Treasury Secretary that he was trying to run a scam on the American people who voted for him. Geithner, who was Chief Architect of the Wall Street mess when he ran the New York Fed Reserve Bank.
SMH
quite so
Labor Warns Dems: We'll Sit Out Election If You Oppose Public Plan
Liberals Revolt Over Public Option
Until the business world decides that it can no longer afford to offer health insurance as a benefit. Suddenly faced with a bill for $15000, the comatose may come to.
ever pay for it? If your employer does not provide it for you, then you must pay for it yourself--for yourself and every member of your immediate family. You will have to buy it from private insurance companies. This is why Wal-Mart, for example, is "backing"reform. If this mandatory coverage passes, in addition to their continuing to not pay for coverage for their part time employees, they won't pay to cover their full time management employees, either. Think about mandatory prescription coverage. Big Pharma's gift from DC. Medicare Part D expanded to everyone. Oh, joy. If there are any subsidies for poor people, they will be paid with taxpayer money to the private insurance companies. How does that benefit real people?
disheartened by some of the things the Obama WH as done (and hasn't done!), a failure to pass substantial, meaningful healthcare reform with a public option will really set me back on my heels. If we can't accomplish this with a Dem President, Dem House and Dem Senate then what the hell CAN we accomplish??
We can start throwing the traitors out of the Democratic Party.
Pols who agree with our principles come with us?
what will happen if the shit really hits the fan, but I would rather that Obama / the Dems just do the right thing.
For once.
and tell the Blue Dogs and the Repukes to go Cheney themselves while they're at it.
Weiner and other alleged progressives were on TV today and none would make a firm commitment to vote against a bill that didn't include the public option. Nancy Pelosi laughed when someone suggested progressives would vote down a bad healthcare bill. At this point, anyone who believes liberals are really liberal is delusional.
I'm a liberal and I believe I'm liberal.
Gosh, am I delusional?
..if you happen to be a member of the Senate or House. Not one of the alleged progessives in Congress is willing to make a firm commitment to kill a healthcare bill that doesn't include a public option. Clearly they aren't really liberals, even though they play one on TV.
Liberals Revolt Over Public Option
If you don't know that, do some reading and thinking.
Fine...you're delusional.
That makes me batshit crazy, and you know what...I'm ok with that.
Better than being some ******** corporatist theocrat who would give a handjob to a white rhino if he thought the lord told him to and that it would make him rich.
"batshit crazy delusional" was reserved only for Glenn Beck.
I guess it's the only way to get respect.
out crazy a crazy or they will hurt you. Doesn't that rule still apply?
Weiner said categorically that there is no bill before Congress that presently has the votes to pass.
Either some of the factions coalesce and form a viable majority in the House and Senate OR there is no reform.
Period.
For Weiner
When I really think hard about all this I come to the conclusion that anything she is FOR is most likely rotten to the core. Like, say the torture she knew all about and did nothing to stop. ETC.
God how I'd love to see somebody run against her and dump her.
The problem with the left is obvious: they never hold Democrats accountable. They are all so scared of the GOP that they will vote for anyone who calls himself or herself a Democrat.
and a tarring.
is delusional. You are wrong about Weiner.
hand down me pitchfork, matey.
;)
Obama needs to reframe the debate.
Newsweek article.
like 4 weeks ago, way before the frame held pictures of Obama looking like Hitler and the Joker.
Frankly, if I were Obama I would fire a few people in the WH for not seeing this unfolding.
who never shouldve been chosen
biden is the fucking village idiot
obama needed an lbj as vp....not a fucking stooge with faux hair
isn't one of the people I had in mind. I was thinking of a guy who's name rhymes with Guam.
he does twist arms...you just dont like how he twists them
1] I, personally, have never seen Rahm's balls so I can't attest to their existence.
2] I know he has a reputation as a pit bull which, frankly, is a visual that disturbs me.
3] If he's considered such an effective "enforcer" why is the Party is complete disarray?
wut?
Wings of a feather perhaps!
... and he did not only twist arms, he also shot people in the face. I still did not care for his policies and/or stands.
So your point being what exactly?
To blame a VP for anything is like blaming a spare tire because you ran out of gas. Benjamin Franklin called the VP, "His superfluous excellency." Just because Cheney acted as an illegal shadow president, doesn't mean we should expect that from all VP's from now on.
with the one exception for Darth Cheney.
and hand the wingnuts the house and senate in 2010 and the wh in 2012
then wait another 8 years while the country goes further down the proverbial toilet
did any of you fuckers see what scalia said today???
you will get courts full of wingnut sociopaths
not one person has proven that deals were given to big pharma and big insurance...its all supposition
here is what the problem is...you fucking progressives kicked back while blue dogs, who are really repuke fucks took office
you jumped for joy when dems took control...fully knowing that most arent really dems
dont blame obama...blame your fucking selves
lazy shits...sitting on some blog threatening to revolt
do something...go to the states where the blue dogs lie and find a progressive candidate and get his/her ass elected in the primary
either do that or stfu
oh and matt...you can stfu too
ease up on the double latte's, will ya?
blog after blog is reaming obama
he is one man
this is a government of the people, by the people and for the people
and the people have been kicking back waiting for obama to do stuff
that isnt the way things work
either get the fuck off the pot and do something...or stfu too
and you guys can start by coming to california and helping us get rid of feinstein (repuke in dem clothing) pelosi (most ineffective speaker in history) and boxer (just a general nutjob) and putting in true dems who will affect change
never again can we hear "impeachment is off the table"
But the fish stinks from the head, as they say.
Unless someone is going to run as an Independent against these rotten Democrats, they will win time and time again.
Because the primary game for Democrats is rigged from the top. The party bosses will "endorse" the incumbent every time (unless he/she is an axe murderer) and that incumbent will get all the Democratic Party $$ for tons of direct mail etc.
The Democratic Party is rotten at it's core.
The only way to win is to run as an Independent.
We need LOTS and LOTS of Bernie Sanders' running around the halls of Congress.
.... hmmmmm.
I understand your feeling of frustration, but if Obama doesn't want to get reamed, it is time for him to stop being so damned ineffective. The GOP was pretty much dead, and yet the Dems have managed to shot themselves in the foot.
Sweep a crooked demoralized party out of office with a strong mandate for change, we shouldn't have to fucking march in the street. That is reserved for the opposition. We have all the votes we need. Obama is weakening himself with his constant calls of bipartisanship and impotence for reigning in blue dogs. No. We did our job when he elected him, he's supposed to deliver and not kick us like dog turds.
Feinstein I get (in bed with the arms industry in a quite literal sense)
and Pelosi (number 36 to save some time http://www.buffalobeast.com/113/50_most_loath...)...wait what about Hastert?
But what did Boxer do again? She seems decent enough as dems go.
Venting is a good thing.
Anything less then single payer and we should take washington apart.
Leave not one dem or one repug in office
!
them?
eery....
As far as I am concerned, if there is no public option then there should be no healthcare bill.
99.9% probability that will be the result. The other .01% is a bill that will further enrich the insurance companies by mandating that citizens purchase private insurance.
I agree with that and said something similar here last week.
one meeting does not a deal make
Obama's own secretary of HHS saying in prime time, on national TV, that the public option was not a fundamental part of this legislation.
Yeah, where would have gotten that silly notion. Right?
some hard evidence of that, rather than conjecture and opinion. (I'm not saying it couldn't be true).
It feels true. If there were proof Obama would surely be in big trouble.
!
Do you all realize how much this is going to cost us in real money?
We don't have a Democratic Party anymore. It has been taken over by republicans, disguised as Democrats.
This country is going to die economically because of the health insurance corporations. Certainly you've read the predictions. Even Obama himself said that the cost impact on families is unsustainable.
Those of you who have to fund your own insurance will be "consumer driven" to $10,000 or higher deductibles. It effectively means you will pay for all costs of health coverage...while still paying hundreds each month in premiums.
Those of you who work for corporations will see even fewer raises and more "consumer driven" increases in your share of health insurance coverage.
The insurance corporations win big, even bigger than oil companies.
lay that fucker on the floor
get rid of the schip program too
and while they are at it...repeal social security
it is time
starve the fuckers in the red states
we should start killin' those Grandmoms!
Enough is Enough!!
Aid to Dependent Children? They need to learn to stand on their own two feet. That's why God invented sweat shops. No wonder the Chinese are loaning us money, instead of the other way around. No bank loans for mortgages. People can live in apartments in shifts. Those health insurance premiums must be paid and paid on time. Automatic payroll deductions. We'll save you the time and expense of writing out checks or buying money orders. We'll even let you put it on the only credit card allowed in this country, your Wal-Mart Visa. See how easy it can be if you just surrender?
They'll just go hunting polecats.
You bet, Mike.
Line Drawn.
Progressives have been playing defence through the entire debate. Defending against ridiculous claims of granny euthanasia, rationing, Socialism, Nazism, the town hall rabble, cable news, insurance companies, Blue Dogs... the list is endless.
And all this time, no sign of protests, no rallies. Compare this to 50,000-100,000 people at Obama’s campaign rallies, and the crowds at inauguration. Where are those people? Do people only back the winning horse?
*Some* form of energy in the form of demonstrations would be a welcome change. In addition to making a cogent argument, not instead of it. Momentum needs to be created. Idling and jogging on the spot doesn’t count.
Edit: To you commenters moaning about the futility of your efforts, the ineffectuality of your politicians, there are terms for that: slactivism, circle jerking, navel gazing. It’s OK to do it, but recognise it for what it is. Consider changes that have been made in the past: from women’s suffrage, passing Medicare 40 years ago to racial equality. These things were not ready-made, even though it seems that way to those born later. These changes were not made by doomsaying on blog comments.
BTW, Dennis Kucinich just sent out an email that declared the public option "dead". Here are the opening paragraphs:
I love the guy's style, but come on. I mean, yeah, Obama cuts a deal for no public option, then spends months touting it, and despite the chicken-littling of the last few days, STILL touts it. And the House passes three bills with the P.O. And the Senate passes one. And yet according to Taibbi, Obama will march ahead and risk his base sitting out in 2010 and 2012. This is bullshit, folks.
And as for Kucinich's e-mail: who?
he ran for pres in 04 and 08. The Press was...unsurprisingly condescending really.
They ignored his ideas, his plans, his legislative history, all to focus on this UFO story and his wife, who was super freakin hot by the way.
insurance reform? Really? What were they?
Robert Reich Calls For 'March on Washington' in Support of Public Option
He has the right idea. The pro Public Option / Single Payer people need to organize and let their point of view be known in a very public manner!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/18/robe...
but fuck, wouldn't it be fun to still have Hunter Thompson around as well, macing gun-totin' teabaggers and dosing the coffee of the anti-public option medicare recipients?
...if the White House keeps blundering this debate.
Notice how those polls, often cited as being bad for Obama, show absolutely no rise in the approval of the Republican party.
We would have to blow this big time for them to have any kind of positive traction from it.
Which doesn't mean we won't lose 15-20 seats in 2010. Par for the course.
the others never supported him in the first place.
If you still believe you have a 2 party system, then keep voting Dem.
If not, then move to Canada -- we have lots of room plus universal healthcare and much better beer. ;-)
then even the knuckleheads will eventually realize who to revolt against:>)
They are doing the public option shuffle.
not "off My table" since Bazerklee in '68 (even though still drafted), Count me in....cuz i'm in the mood... we will have each other by our sides,right? Oh and you too? Great, Over there, you three as well?, NICE!
Obama will not be getting a free ride. Not from me. No single payer no public option. Means I guess I will be sitting out the next election.
Progressives will not be the only ones in revolt if health insurance reform fails.
From FireDogLake Channel at YouTube:
Jane Hamsher on The Rachel Maddow Show - Progressives throw down for Public Option
That was inspiring. Thanks.
I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.
--Thomas Jefferson
I said it quite recently, that it's going to come down to the interpretation of our constitution and the differing ideologies. There is just concern for activist Judges, aside from case law, we're only human. Remember the concern of the (R)ight during the recent Sotomeyer confirmation? They really want their Sharia type to rule our lives, fortunately it's never going to happen. Though they'll keep trying, even if they must become a Martyr for their cause.
EVERY member of the House of Representatives faces re-election in 2010.
That means EVERY Republican and BlueDog Dem in the House is vulnerable.
Threaten THEM with challenges within their districts NOW if they do not vote for HR 676.
Make 2010 a single-issue election.
Vote for HR 676 "Medicare For All Americans" NOW or Face the Wrath of Your District in 2010 !!
NOT vote for a Democrat. I'll vote left wing. I think their asses should FRY!!!
As much as I liked Obama, he is history.
and hold it in your mind when 2010 midterms roll around.
He's right. Obama MUST pass the public option. He has to PROVE himself now.
This is a big test for Obama. If he doesn't pass the public option, he's a sellout and no one will respect him or the Dems.
He's now, essentially, in a box. If he passes the public option, progressives turn out in droves in 2010. If he kills it (or if Rahm convinces him to), progressives stay home.
When Clinton passed NAFTA in 1994 (it was a bipartisan bill, for the record), many progressives stayed home, and the Dems lost Congress.
I guess the Dems miss being in the minority.
He needs to fulfill what he promised in this one.
Matt needs to shower in Rogaine, he and Ms. Maddow are right. Tell the Republicans for once in nine years "FUCK YOU AND GO TO HELL"! How the Hell is that hard to do?
That's what glorious leader St. Bush did for 8 years.
Why can't the Dem leaders stand up for SOMETHING??
It's like constantly backing down to the HALF-WITTED school yard bully...
... stick with the banking issues.
He's right.
Seriously, why ISN'T there some massive organization FOR the public option? I would be there in a heart beat. More than any issue in my life, i would march for this. Why have the batshit insane gun-nuts , on behalf of so-called health insurance companies, been allowed to seize and own the debate? Where is the resistance?
What can I do? Teabaggers dominate the news. But this really is a goddamned crisis in our country. It's crucial. But except for websites like this, I hear of NO plan of action, no demonstration of the popular will for reform.. it stinks. I feel rather powerless. When the hell are we progressives going to get our act together?
two jobs to survive cuts into protest time?
this guy is a one man demolition crew. He is as good as it gets on the left. We should all be this chunk ball awesome.
And here we sit, armed with nothing but our keyboards when we could be out making as big of a stink in public as our counterparts, but what ev, sit here and type or go to the damn town hall meetings.
that's because we're sane....
Or employed?
Looks like the vast majority of the teabaggers at the town halls are retirees.
I can't afford to take time off and drive 6 hours to go to a town hall meeting.
Hell, I couldn't even afford to take the time off to drive 60 miles to Miami.
I would LOVE to be able to go to one of these town halls and confront these assholes.
But I have 1200 bucks a month rent to worry about paying by myself...I need every friggin penny.
was when Bush stole the 2004 election.
Obama is losing his base, fast. He really needs to start acting like a Democrat, not a Blue Dog fake Dem.
He and the dems can kiss my ass.
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