Howard Dean: Democrats Are Going to Rue the Day They Didn't Go To Budget Reconciliation to Pass This Bill
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Dean: Senate health bill 'watered down':
Former Democratic National Committee (DNC) Chairman Howard Dean said Monday that Senate Democrats' healthcare legislation is so diluted it threatens the party's 2010 chances.
Appearing on MSNBC, the former Vermont governor and outspoken proponent of healthcare reform charged Democrats were "playing with dynamite in terms of dividing the party.”
"The big problem is the policy. This thing has been pretty watered down," Dean said during the interview, noting the House bill was "better" than the "decent" Senate bill. "Right now, it's about as watered down as it can get and still be a real bill. For example, there's really no insurance reform in this bill, already."
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As they say---don't go to a gunfight with a knife.
...and if you do bring a gun, don't trade it to a Republican for a dull knife.
Here about in Texas we say, "Don't go to a gunfight with a spork."
People who live by the sword get shot by people who don't.
Still one of my favorite presidents.
"Speak softly and carry a big stick." (this seems to be the Democrats, but they're not using the stick)
Yosemite Sam: "Oh yeah, I speak loud and I carry a bigger stick. And I use it too." (this is the Republicans)
The Democrats need to get loud and just beat the tar out of the Republicans.
Howard Dean for president!!!
;)
That makes three of us!
I'd trade Obama in for Dean right now.
*
I would gladly take Hillary right now, for democrats are sorely lacking in the testicular fortitude department... A bunch compromising cowards they are... with the exception of Grayson and Bernie Sanders.
Say what you want about republicans... but you can never accuse them for lack of B@lls, or the presence of high morals for that matter...
Repugs , high morals ? Good lord !
What moral do Republicans hold? I have been asking for years to any conservative that I meet: what is a conservative value? and, you know, not a single one has been able to answer my question.
High Morals? You must be joking!
Not bogarting.
she's more thoroughly corporately owned than even Obama is. I've had my fill with so-called centrists, Obama included. I want a real democrat the next time around who actually gives a damn about the people.
Dean/Grayson/Sanders/Kucinich, in any combination for 2012 would be fine with me.
10-4 on the morals....it's like they are all aflicted with leprosy of the soul or something.
Someone has cut Grayson's b.... off.. He has shut up about this health bill and humping for then.
Emanuel has told DNC to threaten the democrats which do not like this piece of S... they are passing , that they will cut their funds and support off if they do not vote for it.
Notice that the republican blue dogs and the republican centrists are getting everything they wish and every time they wish to cut more they threaten the progressive that if they do not reform they will get no support...
Emanuel is an a.. hole.. He looks more like a republican than a democrat to me.. Emanuel has even recruited , funded and supported republicans to run on the democratic ticket as democrats.. This is why we have these blue dogs and centrists slashing the h... out of the corporate health bill..
The best thing to do with any social program for the benefit of Americans is to cut the private empires completely out of the programs...
Like Halliburton , Blackwater , public roads , security , and of course our military...
Just look what price tag is attached to the war in the middle east and the money paid to the war contractors and mercenary army... They has over charged for their product , service and has even stolen money for services they had already finish an earlier contract and one they never finished...
When you deal with the privatization , you receive less service at inflated prices.
are (R)ahm's people.
That is one of the points I was trying to get across.. This is why Emanuel had Dean replaced.. Dean would not let Emanuel take any amount of money from the DNC that he wish to give to Emanuel's special republican candidates Emanuel was running on the democrat ticket..
Dean help build the democratic grass roots for 50 and the democratic wins in 2006 and 2008 and now Emanuel is taking the full credit for it..
Emanuel is one of the biggest pieces of s... the democrats ever have...
Howard Dean said in 2005 he would serve one 4 year term as DNC chair. I don't like Emanuel and to give any credence to him kicking Dean out as DNC chair is pure B.S. not to mention a slap in the face to Dean.
Dean stuck to his word and served one term then stepped down on his own accord.
would be left ?
You are so right....
And let's not forget that the shoddy electrical work done by some of the "private" contractors in Iraq actually electrocuted and KILLED some of our soldiers!
STOP ALL PRIVATIZATION IN THE MILITARY AND IN THE HEALTHCARE SECTORS!
bad water and rotten meat served up to the troops, many of whom no doubt had that shit as a last meal.
just like her hubby did.
> I would gladly take Hillary right now
I would take almost ANYBODY right now!! I truly think Hillary would make an awesome president. At least she wouldn't be Republican Lite like we have now.
> democrats are sorely lacking in the testicular fortitude
> department...
True, unfortunately. And we need to keep that in mind in 2010.
Me too !
I agree.
HE HAS GOT TO GO.
Geithner
Talking about firing or trading President Obama solves nothing, and emboldens his opposition from the disparate and desparate aisle.
However, I wouldn't mind seeing Dean run for the nomination in 2012, so either he gets the nod, or he pushes Obama further left.
I'd trade the entire Obama administration in for Dean. And throw in some future DLC asswhipes to be named later just to get it done.
if Gov. Dr. Dean had went on to face and beat Bush in 2004. Maybe we'd get a real HC bill on the table.
In 2004, we let the press, party insiders and other bullsh*t corporate types steal our nominating process from us, just when hope had arrived in the form of the honorable Dr Dean.
We let 'em. Lemme guess, you "thought the other dude (Kerry) was more electable." Poppycock! cuz he wasn't and you know it.
When are Progressives gonna realize the truth? Nothing short of the extremism this situation demands, in defense of our Liberty, will suffice. It is no vice.
I advocate such extremism.
Watch: If the Congressional Progressive Caucus stands up against this bill and refuses to support the bill blended with the Senate, it can't pass. Urge Progressive Caucus members to refuse to support ANY compromise bill that does not include, for the last tiem, A ROBUST SINGLE PAYER PUBLIC OPTION. Then watch those SOB corporate Democrats BEG the other side to replace the 70 votes the bill cannot pass without enough. Yes, pelosi, Hoyer and the other lesser known douchebags (again, gender non-specific) have already begun cultivating Repugnant votes to push it past the house. Whores! (gender-non-specific)
I OBJECT
I OBJECT
I OBJECT
I OBJECT
I OBJECT
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 17:16 — JohnnyBravo
if Gov. Dr. Dean had went on to face and beat Bush in 2004. Maybe we'd get a real HC bill on the table.
________________________________________________________________
Hillary Clinton and Bill?
Doin' it on the table sounds pretty wild for them.
She'd probably skid her nekkid ass right off the table from all the puddles of the fried chicken grease.
were not going to vote for Dean because of "the holler"? I never did understand that stupid shit.
I liked the holler.
This kind of outspoken honesty is why Rahm has been trying to marginalize Dean since the day after the election.
Rahm doesn't like sharing.
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strikes me as being an evil Rasputen type of character. The only silver lining about him working at the WH is that he is no longer in possession of a vote in Congress that he can use to betray the trust of the People.
I wish him nothing but ill.
Howard Dean right of course. Lots of progressives are furious over this bill. I completely understand why Dean believes this puts the party at risk in '10.
I'm going to sit this weekend and hand-write letters to my congress critters, Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi. I'm going to tell them exactly what I think of this bill - how and why it disappoints me.
They've already made up their minds that all we're going to get is crap - but at least I can say - "stop and think about what you're doing"
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But it just did. Damn one of the last real reforms has been pulled. I mean takeing away the Anti-trust exemption removal that was placed in after several other real reforms were pulled, really just kills this bill as any sort of reform.
Honestly how can people keep supporting this bill that every step of the way becomes worse and worse?
I'm seriously displeased with this bill.
I commented on an article at huffpost expressing my unhappiness with the bill and about five people jumped all over me. They must have forgotten that "mindless lockstep" is a feature of the other party.
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On newsvine because I didn't jump in line on this bill. Look Dean here said it the only real reform left is the public option and even that is watered down.
There is too much corporate welfare in this bill for A watered down public option to counterbalance. This is a Health Insurance bailout bill with a weakened public option that holds little to nothing against the Health Insurance Mafia.
(CommonDreams) - Single Payer Activists to Congress: Defeat Democratic Health Bill
more info at links ..
...press conference or you are just gonna get labeled as ball draggin teabaggers who are trying to undermine Obama!
(trust me) ...I been there!
We're trying to push Obama further to the left, not saying my crackpot candidate is better.
...which way you want to push Obama...
they will just see what they want to!
...a bunch of teabaggers!...and besides, if you "hope it passes" (then) you ain't pushin' for nothing (exept the status quo!)
I keep forgetting how little you know of the constitution and law.
This will create further precedent that the government has a place in medical care (going only incrementally further than medicare and medicaid which are also precedents).
If (admittedly a big if) the concept becomes accepted more can be added.
And you know if the plan goes under entirely faux will credit themselves and their teabaggers, not unhapply liberals, unless to prove how rosy-eyed liberals are supposed to be.
What Fixed news reports. Everyone but their deluded veiwers no what liars they are.
And you'll notice it was milktoast who brought them into the discussion at 18:05 in his headline.
And what was further duplicitous in milktoast's reference to faux news, is he proudly claims the title of teabagger, and spent months trying to push that garbage down everyone's throat here
Despite the teabaggers being dick armey, freedom works and faux news baby.
It's worse than nothing.If it's defeated,it will give the Nation more time to build momentum for a universal single payer system that puts the insurance companies out of business.
I hope it passes, because otherwise Democrats could lose a house in next year's election, or at least have a gain of enough republicans to make passing anything even more impossible.
And if the language is written carefully enough the bill could be amended later after it's passed to include more items we want to see now.
I want some of what you've been smoking, because it must be some really great shit!
Dr. Howard Dean is correct - up to a point. He is of the belief that the House HCR bill is "acceptable" and "amendable" toward a robust PO. Both the House bill and the Senate bill are POS, and neither Pelosi nor Reed have the stones to make a better bill in reconciliation that will pass muster with either the Republicans or the Blue Dog/DINO Democrats. The resultant mash-up in reconciliation can only get worst. The Senate is little more than a "Gentlemen's Club & Choir", comprised of Neo-Con Republicans and Neo-Liberal Democrats that would rather rub elbows together than to raise a single voice in anger in favor of their actual voting constituents. The Democrats have effectively "painted themselves into a corner". They will be damned by the liberal progressives if a real POS HC bill lands on Obama's desk, and they will be damned by the HC Insurance & Big Pharma industries if it fails (no TARP-like bail-out for Them). Just who do you think that the Dem pols are more concerned about?
No HCR bill that passes muster with the HC Insurance & Big Pharma industries will be good for the long-suffering citizenry -- and it will not be possible to amend it/fix it later on. Doubt this assertion? Think about just how badly the American people have been screwed by Medicare Part-D. How well has That been fixed, with the Neo-Liberal Democrats in charge of the White House, the House, and the Senate?
2010 will be bad for the Neo-Liberal Dems, and even worse in 2012. Rethugs => Dems in power has resulted in how many progressive changes that really count for anything? Iraq? Afghanistan? Iran? Reining in the M.I.C? Torture & war crimes prosecution? Reversing the Bush tax cuts? Ending domestic surveillance & telecom immunity? Re-enacting Glass-Seigal? What has really changed?
Sorry to bum you out ...
And voting back into office the assholes who largely created many of the problems you listed would solve what?
I agree the health care reform bill is a piece of shit, and Obama has become the "concessionary president".
At least for the Democrats, I can see they are trying to pass legislation that is somewhat helpful to someone other than the top 1%. Democrats should make the midterm a referendum on the obstructionism of Republicans and unprecedented amount of money special interests have corrupted the entire government.
Regardless of which party becomes the majority, Congress will continue in a downward spiral as long as the way campaigns are financed is not changed. The special interests and corporate fascism must be defeated.
dammit! You're confusing everyone.
America to make it worse, you might be tempted as well.
Power corrupts, money corrupts absolutely.
It's called money and self-interest. As an example drawn from another shameful episode in Congress (this time about the banksters) Rep. Kanjorski (Dem) inserted an amendment that appeared, at last, to deal with the "too big to fail" problem in the future.
Only after it was voted in Committee did some inquiring minds realized that this was a Trojan Horse of the worst kind, since it repeals all the powers regulators had to seize a failing bank since the Great Depression!!
In practice, the amendment would allow banks to preemptively SUE regulators who would try to seize a failing bank! Like a criminal asking a judge to prevent a cop to arrest him when he committed a crime.
How screwed up has this Congress become? THAT screwed up, and then some.
I'm afraid Tom Friedman on Charlie Rose was absolutely right; the politics keep churning sub-optimal to bad solutions to very big problems.
And we are the suckers paying for this colossal stupidity, amorality and greed.
Anybody wanna bet the blue dogs will still vote against it?
If anybody can find a way to get to the multiverse where Howard Dean is the President, could you take me with you?
I'm completely disgusted the pathetic, weak senate Democrats and their unending compromises in their needless pursuit of a super majority ot pass health care reform. With their choice to place parlimentary rule worship and senate collegial coutesies over the wishes and priorities of the people who voted for them the Senate Democrats have proven themselves undeserving of further support.
I won't bother voting for them again.
Spineless, every one of them.
Time for a new progressive party. The old guard does not look out for their constituents. Nearly all the Democrats and all of the Republicans are bought by corporate America.
...a new progressive party.
...the "progressive progressives" perhaps!
...isn't is easier to just become a "left nutted" teabagger?
If you're volunteering, pass me the scissors...
This is how pathetic the Democratic Party has become. After being browbeaten for eights years by the Bushies, they've become their own worst enemy. I don't understand how anyone who supported and voted for Obama can support or rationalize what's going on right now - this bill will contain practically NO insurance reform, let alone a straightforward public option.
I worked so hard for Obama. I believed he would come in and "do the right thing".
For me, the top top priority was the economy and Gitmo. He could have ordered Gitmo closed with the stroke of a pen ON A DATE CERTAIN. He could have ordered a complete investigation into WHY Wall Street needed to be bailed out so dramatically by the U.S. taxpayers thereby giving him political cover to institute the necessary reforms in order to prevent the need for ANOTHER bailout. I believe that no corporation should be "too big to fail". To this moment we still have not properly addressed what Wall St. is up to as to derivative trading etc. and NO reforms have been put in place to regulate the financial institutions and to protect the financial interests of every day working Americans.
The proper course regarding health care would have been to tackle the situation from a scholarly perspective. ALL possible solutions should have been studied with objective CBO scores.
My understanding of the CBO that resulted from Weiner's amendment on Single Payer was that the result was not realistic as to the proposed legislation. Any Single Payer "Medicare for All" legislation where "everyone" would be in and "nobody" would be out would have essentially eliminated ALL profits from our health care equation! It is fundamentally nonsense when all the for-profit health insurance corporations are removed from the picture and significant amounts of money are freed up to actually pay doctors, nurses, lab techs etc. for needed care, that the result of the CBO score does NOT come back as "the most favorable" of all systems.
Any economic comparisons with other Single Payer systems would suggest the astronomical savings that could be found for the American public.
Had Obama ordered a study and done a "fireside chat" with the American People showing them the results regarding deliverable quality health care to the most people with the highest cost effectiveness I believe Single Payer would have been the best plan.
Once THE AMERICAN PEOPLE COULD SEE THE EVIDENCE THAT SINGLE PAYER WOULD BE THE BEST almost everyone would have come to the conclusion that Single Payer would be the right choice. Obama would have had a simple 200 page bill that every American from the sixth grade on up could read and discuss with their neighbors.
That would have been that. Any member of Congress who would have tried to argue FOR the for-profit corporations would have been looked at as an idiot.
But instead Obama made sure that Single Payer was off the table a few weeks after his Inauguration when he invited the CEO of United Health Plans to lunch at The White House instead of his own personal physician of over 20 years who is a Single Payer supporter. The White House made sure that the ABC "Prescription for America" event would have no mention of Single Payer.
Single Payer advocates who happened to be doctors and nurses were ARRESTED at the opening of Baucus' first hearing for shouting out that they wanted Single Payer to be "on the table!"
And now, as a result of Obama and Congress working for high paying corporate lobbyists instead of their constituents "back home", we are stuck with these rotten bills in the House and Senate that get more watered down for the interests of "the corporations" every day.
We are about to be screwed by this legislation and the Democratic Party big time.
Howard Dean is right when he says at the end of the interview, "This will just end up being a big bail out of the for-profit insurance corporations just like the bail out of the big banks and AIG and the Democratic Party goes up in smoke..."
This is a gift to the F'n insurance companies is what it is . There is no reform in the bill , there is nothing , no competition at all created to keep the insurance companies honest , they still hold all the cards and can pretty much do what they want just as they have been only now they get millions more customers to gouge and bleed dry. The gov will negotiate prices ? Oh that's beautiful , the way Bush " negotiated " with Pharma telling them you charge what you want the gov cannot use their buying power and negotiate for lower prices ? The Dems are blowing so much smoke up our butts now trying to sell this bill as reform and a success that I'm on double doses of gas x , fact is they have failed . The Repugs , the yellow dog Republicrat whores and the Insurance lobby and the millions in bribe money they've handed out have already won , the corrupt won . Big business and the corporations "own the place" like Durbin said .
Most republicant's think rue is a form of hard likker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELCKhVsYV7E
With number one being having no backbone for standing up to the thuggery of the RNC.
The Democrats better push this bill through come hell or high water. Howard Dean is right. If they screw this up by not using whatever tools are at their disposal, they will lose all kinds of support from the people who elected them. The Rethugs know it too, which is all the more reason they're fighting so hard for failure. When will there ever be another shot at this? The GOP doesn't care about healthcare reform. They never have.
3 out 2 conservaturds recommend Miracle-Grue
Sprinkle it anywhere in the world to get rid of unwanted varmints.
If the Dems can't get health care to the American people as they promised then there is no reason to vote for them in the future...all we will get is a party that is willing to shit on us when the chips are down.
If the Dems are not on our side, we need to figure out something else...because we can't give the vote to the repugs. But how can we, in good faith, vote for the Dems if they let us down like they are looking like they are going to?
n/t
The Dems better start playing hardball and get something half decent done or god forbid we will be at the mercy of a Repug White House , house and senate again , it's disgusting as it is now but what a nightmare that would be !
We better get heath care reformed
masquerading as reform is a joke and an insult.
I hope Dean runs for president in 2012.
Me too. Obama better clean up his act. I know it hasn't been a year but he's pretty much doing the ReThugs bidding.
He just deploys better rhetoric than Chimpy.
The AIDS crisis? Ignore it. They deserve what they got. The deficit? Doesn't matter as long as the rich get what they want. Huge unemployment and falling incomes among the working class? Feed them crank social issues so they have someone to hate.
with smiles
Paul says, "I hope Dean runs for president in 2012."
I agree with him. But he just gave me an idea. I don't know if primary ballots allow write-ins or not, but if they do, then there is an answer -- write him in AND THEN VOTE FOR HIM as a write-in candidate. Hopefully, he'll solve the problem by announcing he is a candidate. But if he doesn't, then let's go the write-in route. If Hillary announces and Dean doesn't, an alternative solution would be to support Hillary.
But in the mean time, we need to take action on the State level to flush the Neo-Cons and Neo-Liberal Corporatists out of Congress, beginning with the 2010 mid-terms.
Hillary, unfortunately, is neither a Liberal nor a Progressive nor a Liberal Progressive -- she is a Neo-Liberal Democrat who is just as bought-and-paid-for as the other Corporatist shills. No Hillary, no Obama, and no other Rahm Emanual candidates.
"The near-frenzied pace of buyouts earlier in this decade has left private equity funds with portfolios that are stuffed full of companies of all kinds. Those portfolios include, according to calculations by one investment bank for StreetWise, about 100 health care companies with a value in excess of $500 million. Only about a quarter of these are already public, giving buyout firms like Welsh Carson, Bain Capital, and TPG Capital a straightforward way to unload their remaining positions. When it comes to the rest, the pressure on these private equity firms to find an exit strategy and return any gains to their own limited partners will begin to grow starting next year. And pretty much any kind of exit strategy—a sale of the company to a strategic buyer or another buyout firm, or an IPO—is one that is going to generate more fees for the very happy health care bankers on Wall Street."
!
We need to get money out of government. Until there is no way for PACS (backed by corporations) to give millions of dollars to candidates, nothing will change. Nothing.
The democrats and republicans who vote for this stupid power grab bill should all be removed from office for violating the constitution.
[Deleted. Blogwhoring-Sitemonitor]
If the House Resolution is better than the Senate Bill, than that means no real budget reconciliation is needed except to slow passage, because of the disparity it will automatically go to conference committee to hammer out the differences, and there remains a chance for more of the House version to be adopted into a final version.
Read that again.
It says you could never ACCUSE the repigs of the PRESENCE of high morals.
Meaning, one would be wrong to assume the repigs have high morals.
(Oops. This was meant to reply to messages @ 16:47 and 16:51.)
Over the last 15 years, I've sent over a thousand dollars to Democratic organizations to get Democrats elected. Those days are over.
I will only donate to an organization that can guarantee me that not one cent will go to a Blue Dog, or to someone who blocked the Public option, or to someone who takes away a woman's ownership of her body.
I'm not giving .01 to anyone who thinks progressives and our ideals are disposable when deemed inconvenient. The Democratic party is supposed to be about ALL the people, not just the well off who can afford to buy influence.
We Deaniacs are seeing what we always see. Howard Dean making sense; Democrats not listening.
And woe unto us if America reinstalls the Republicans.
The American people voted in Republicans only to have their legs chopped off. So, next time, they voted in the Democrats, only to have their arms chopped off. Thus, this upcoming time, they'll . . . vote for the Republicans again?
i said it before and i'll say it again, re-election is not certain, in fact it will be difficult because the media is and always has been againste democrats. BO is trying to appease them and they're sticking it to him, only gently now but you can see it ramping up. Christ! supposed friendly sources are comparing him to Carter and somehow all independants have made up there minds for 2010 even though only the older racist ones vote in off year elections. We should let this pig with lipstick die, blame the republicans and conservadems LOUDLY run primary oponents against all of blue dogs, That;ll inspire more dem votes than this crap bill ever will. I sincerely think passing it will kill dems and repubs know it now. BO has dissapointed progressives every week he's been in office, time to pick his primary challenger, he won't win at the rate he's going folks.
pick your ticket, any suggestions?
Dean-Sanders (two vermonters, won't happen)
Dean-Wiener (too northest)
Dean-Wasserman Shultz (I like it)
I like the thought of a Dean-Grayson ticket. Whenever Dean needs to dial it down a bit, Grayson will be right there to pick up the big stick and take names.
n/t
are Democratic Party stalwarts through and through.
They will ALWAYS "go along to get along".
The rethuglicans AND the current four seemingly recalcitrant Democrats that have stated that they will either vote against the bill or try to kill it outright should be silenced by Sen. Reid. IF Sen. Reid wants health care reform OF ANY KIND, he will tell these folks to blow it out their shorts and go DIRECTLY to reconciliation and be done with all this nonsense.
BS , the system as rolled , doesnt happen till what yr. again , im at the point of wanting to vote against this BS . Ya dont need 2,000 ( + or - 2-3 hundred ) pages of crap too know when your stepping in it .
Vote it down and bring on HR 676
I had high hopes for this administration. But I can't help thinking how great it would be if Rahm had been tossed aside, Howard Dean had some high ranking office and Paul Krugman was in charge of the treasury.
Pelosi has proven to be an ineffective appeaser. And Joe Lieberman (!) is wielding increasing power thanks to Reid's inability and unwillingness to take the bastard down a few pegs.
My sense is that the Dems have already screwed the pooch for 2010. This bill has become meaningless. They've tossed aside meaningful reform just to say they've been able to pass *something*. That's worse than passing nothing. And unless they start concentrating on creating new jobs, they're going to lose on the economy. Nobody outside the beltway gives a damn about some vague improvement in economic numbers.
You summed it up nicely Jeff .
Give em hell Howard.
And everyone else send your unused vertebrae to Harry Reid so he can assemble his own spine.
if Harry "No Spine" Reid hadn't stupidly stated that reconciliation was off the table. By doing so, he gave away enormous power to those who want this bill to be a pure give away to corporate thieves.
My feelings toward Reid range from contempt to far worse.
BTW, to those who point out that reconciliation has its own problems, how about deep-sixing the filibuster altogether?
I guess to get this done, all the provincials stick their hands out looking for (il)legal bribes for their vote.
OBAMA = FAIL
HEALTHCARE = FAIL
... I won't vote Democratic in 2010 or 2012! We gave them 60 filibuster power and they blew it.
Somehow I don't think so. The proper strategy would be to target the bluedogs with primaries and replace the SOB's. Surrendering just seems so cowardly.
They fucking blew it big time.
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