Countdown: Convictions Unlikely for Bush Lawyers Who Authorized Torture
By Heather Wednesday May 06, 2009 4:00pm
From the AP:
Bush administration lawyers who approved harsh interrogation techniques of terror suspects should not face criminal charges, Justice Department investigators say in a draft report that recommends two of the three attorneys face possible professional sanctions.
The recommendations come after an Obama administration decision last month to make public legal memos authorizing the use of harsh interrogation methods but not to prosecute CIA interrogators who followed advice outlined in the memos.
And if that weren't bad enough Jonathan Turley reports:
The Washington Post reports that Bush officials are working the halls and telephones of the Justice Department with the formal end of the internal investigation into former Justice officials involved in the Bush torture program, including Ninth Circuit Judge Jay S. Bybee, Berkeley professor John C. Yoo and Steven G. Bradbury. They are reportedly working over former colleagues to soften the language and recommendations of the department. I will be discussing this and other related stories on tonight’s Countdown.
An earlier draft report recommended disciplinary action by state bar associations against two former Justice officials — pretty light punishment for participation in a war crime. However, even that recommendation was too much for former Attorney General Michael Mukasey who delayed the report and ordered further examination. Mukasey and then-Deputy Attorney General Mark Filip wrote a 14-page letter rebutting the report of its own investigators before leaving office.
The investigation could, however, disclose new information given the five years of work by the department into the matter. The deadline for the investigation ended on Monday of this week.
Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich has informed members of Congress that Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and Deputy Attorney General David W. Ogden “will have access to whatever information they need to evaluate the final report and make determinations about appropriate next steps.”
The Justice Department continues to insist on total control over the investigation of its own attorneys and department in a clear conflict of interest. Not just political appointees but career attorneys were involved in the program. The department is now reviewing whether the department itself facilitated in the commission of a war crime — a finding that would be an embarrassment to the department as a whole. This is like having a hospital review its own doctors to determine if those doctors and the hospital as a whole committed criminal malpractice.
The fact that there is lobbying going on between current and former Justice Department officials shows the highly inbred aspect of this inquiry. These same former officials would not think of trying to influence a special prosecutor, who is supposed to be appointed in such conflicted circumstances. Not surprisingly, a report from the New York Times indicates that the Justice Department will use this report to conclude that its lawyers should not face criminal charges when facilitating such programs.
In this context, discussion of bar charges appears rather laughable. It is not that such action is not warranted, but rather it is treating participating in a possible war crime as something less than a misdemeanor offense.
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I cannot understand why we are still talking about this. Why aren't these guys charged with crimes against humanity or something? They should be disbarred, spend many years in prison, and give up the main instigators: Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld.
we peace nicks are considered commies and pinkos and sissy boys.
only when you want to nationalize the banks, takeover privately owned business, socialize health care, institute policy that allows goverment to control all college loans in return for national service and agree with that free America hating Hugo Chavez. Seems like a recipe for comrade cake to me bro. I know I am missing something but it has been moving pretty fast. I think thats the point.
If these guys are not shredded america wil go the way of china, russia, and the middle east. torture was one of the only distinctions before cheney. Cheney raped every American! Now there's this from the DOJ? Cheney raped the DOJ too?
America allows torture, I recommend torturing people. Just grab them out of the cars and torture them on a waterboard or throw them against "false walls" until they say that you can't do it to them anymore.
I mean, torture is not a crime in america, so go nuts guys. I'm sure people will complain, but who cares, its legal to torture, so torture away!
When they complain enough that torture is bad, maybe they will start arresting people for it and put them on trial and stuff... But until then, it's open season.
I recommend doing this out in front of congress or a big law office. Let them argue its wrong to torture them.
But no one will hear their screams... I mean, it's legal right? Let them put their money where their mouth is.
Let them argue exceptions to torture, you can use the same ones.
"I was just following orders" then when they ask for evidence say "Its classified".
they decide who dies and who is tortured
Get back to work slaves
You got that right. US of BLOODYISRAEL is what we live in now. US of Amerika long, gone! No funeral, no flowers, no constitution, no habeus corpus, no DOJ no nothing except a subdued, dumbed-down, easy prey population for the Corporations to feed on. Nothing to see......move on..........no cards.........I weep for the US my own children will never know.
Because in order to do it the truth about whom really signed off on it would be exposed in doing so. It would be like turning in the video tape of you and your buddy robbing a bank in order to get your buddy in trouble. The sad thing here is that is the only reason it has not happened yet. I distinctly remember members on both sides of the isle after 911 coming out saying that in an unprecedented display of bipartisan support we have agreed on the tough decisions of using enhanced interrogation and that in the name of safety it is in the best interests of our country. I think they were even holding hands. I am paraphrasing of course but it went just about like that. NOW some of the same slime ball people that told us we should do it want the heads of the people they where holding hands with, Where I come from that is pretty damn dishonorable.
I posted part of this in another comment but thought it would be relevant here.
I'm not kidding here, every democrat should send every single violation, bills, etc asking them to intervene on our favor. I mean, it's not like we tortured anyone, it's just a ticket.
I did not know that federal law enforcement could pick and choose who to investigate, and who gets a pass.
Remember Nuremberg!
Don't worry. It's a very clever poker game... (I've heard.)
(snark)
Oh, Justice will be served and the battle will rage.
This big dog will fight when you rattle his cage
You'll be sorry that you messed with the US of A
'Cuz we'll put a boot in your ass
It's the American way.
So, it's like . . .don't hold your breath forever
Obama has said he doesn’t support "charging CIA agents and interrogators who took part in waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics, acting on advice from superiors that such practices were legal."
It is essential that ALL the people who formulated, authorized and promulgated the orders to conduct torture be held accountable for their crimes. However, HOW can that be accomplished if the CIA agents and interrogators who took part in waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics lack sufficient incentive/motivation to fully cooperate and provide the WHOLE TRUTH? Couldn’t those who followed orders (the smaller fish Obama doesn’t want charged) selectively control and or significantly influence WHICH of the big fish DO and or DO NOT get prosecuted? When the smaller fish have no PERSONAL LEGAL STAKE in telling ALL, aren’t they vulnerable to the internal and external political and career pressures that could significantly influence who they DO and or DO NOT incriminate? Does anyone believe that there is NO POLITICS within the CIA?
President Obama is WRONG to advocate the SELECTIVE enforcement of our laws. WHY should Obama want to ignore the precedents set at the Nuremberg trials? How can a Constitutional Law professor advocate ignoring the reasons that America was established as a nation of laws instead of a nation of men? We should not have to trust in anyone. We should only trust in the rule of law.
Next we should tear down the statue of liberty,melt down the liberty bell etc.etc.
I think they must go through with prosecution. It's the prison time that should be considered or not.
Prison time?!?!?!
It's the Hanging or Guillotine that should be considered or not.
Like... Either/Or.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
and make a profit in more than one way!
Is this going to be the change we can believe in? I think not. I'm holding back judgment until we see what happens. Too much dust and shit in the wind.
The report is meaningless. It was completed by the Bush Justice Dept.
It's like asking the cops to investigate the cops.
provide for investigation and prosecution where the country involved refuses or does nothing?
UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment
John Wayne and Bill O'Reilly. U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.!
I think realistically the fact is that too many people in the system would all have to have a spine in order for their to be an investigation, charges, arrests, convictions and sentencing all done successfully.
Nonetheless that shouldn't stop Obama from decrying these crimes vociferously.
Why isn't all this stuff automatically triggered? Why does it suddenly depend on the opinion of a few people at the top to get rolling? I wouldn't have thought the AG would get his hands in this personally. pretty wierd
Well, knowing that murderers and torturers are the powerful people you are trying to bring down, and you know that at least one of them ran an assassination squad out of his FRACKING OFFICE that might stop you from considering prosecution.
You say you will prosecute, they will find you in the woods beside your wife and kids in a big ditch.
Sorry, but I think that would cross my mind before I went after these guys.
You need someone old who has the stones to do it and nothing to lose.
Oh ya, Cheney runs an assasination ring. I guess that makes him pretty powerful alright. but more powerful than justice and the American way? Say it isn't so!
anything automatically triggered is bound to cause a lot of problems too. Look at all the problems caused by mandatory sentencing for certain drug crimes. Its probably best that people have to decide but ya it sucks. Like I said, it would take a lot of people with a backbone to pull it off, and thats just not likely in america right now.
Ya i see your point. but i think the sentencing questions should come after investigations that are certainly warranted.
Obama would have done us a huge favor if he had come out initially and said it is the responsibility of the justice department to determine whether a crime was committed. By protecting the CIA officers he protected himself politically, but he has undercut anyone who would attempt to prosecute the lawyers, or perform an unbiased examination of the facts.
I've called my three congressional congress to DEMAND an INTERNATIONAL WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL and nothing less.
You should too. I know they know they may face prison time also....... SO.
This is institutional TREASON and cannot be addressed by a blue ribbon commission,a warren commission or an Iran contra hearing.
If EVERYTHING they did was defenseable within the bounds of law they will therefore in a trial setting be acquitted.. if not hello Abu Grahb ,here come the principles.
International treasonal torture demands a trial by the peers of those who were tortured.
This ass clown, an accessory to over 100 murders, is sitting in judgement of others???? WTF?????
They've killed far more than a New Jersey mob.
How I wish there were more like you in media and government.
Corruption and criminality are the order of business in Washington, DC, and the bush foxes are still very much in the henhouse.
Arrest them all!
You read the NY Times and you get all worked up about this. The same NY times wrote many editorials between 9-11 and March of 2003 pushing the Bush administration into a war with Iraq. What the hell was that?
To me when I look at the media I see a constant attempt to pit ordinary people against each other. Whether it's by class(only not their elite class) or by race. They all do it.
The incest-like relationship between music, movies, tv and the news is a big problem. You have a dozen people controlling everything.
Hollywood/NY Jews who are responsible? Like, Jon Stewart?
..al-Qaeda keeps winning, keeps recruiting and fights on, while we fumble with questions about "what is" and "what isn't" torture. Even though (according to the Red Cross) we've tortured and lawyers said it was OK and its not. And Presidents and Senators and members of Congress said it was OK and its not. And people claiming they was following orders, SO? Its all OK though just as long as al-Qaeda doesn't lose its biggest recruiting incentive - our criminality!
Great! I'm very tired!
We tortured to death (murdered) at least 100 people that we know of
if "we" tortured to death shouldn't "we" be held responsible?
Waterboarding was deemed perfectly safe by two doctors and some lawyers on staff. According to cheney "we" are off the hook.
with most of the progressive movement so NO,But the ones who did deserve to be punished
That's the problem, no one in this country is guilt-free. We are a nation of laws not merely of men and women. We are to blame until the ones who we voted into office act. They must act because of laws and international conventions; we must make sure they act and I won't stop until I am guilt-free and the torturers and torture-enablers are ALL tried, convicted and punished!
We are Guilty and we are not safe; thanks to W!
..I'll never pay a traffic fine ever again.
Hey, Judge, you don't have to hold me responsible, I'll never do it again and my lawyer says it was OK 'cause I was in a hurry. Hey, President Bush got a free pass and he beat the crap out of folks; all I did was drive fast! I swear I'm telling the truth.
News like the above story doesn't encourage me, not one bit!
Its time for America to show it has a pair! Appoint that Special Prosecutor, preferably a Shark. A shark has no skeleton so he can't leave one in a closet. A Shark is ruthless and will eat its prey alive when it doesn't eat its young. A Shark will smell the blood in the water.
Sorry for the crude reference above!
That's right, I said it. BUSH authorized it. Rummy and Condi and Cheney Authorized it. These lawyers DID NOT authorize it.
The lawyers in question offered a twisted sort of logic in favor of torture but in the end what they gave was a LEGAL OPINION and not authorization. The recommendation to seek bar action is appropriate when a faulty legal opinion is given that results in a crime possibly being committed.
Bush and the gang are the one's who need to go to jail. Keep that in mind.
..but everybody associated with the crime of torture must be held accountable. There are no Gray areas; there can't be!
If Joe the plumber goes on TV and say "Hey, torture the heck out of these people" and Bush listens to him should Joe the plumber also be prosecuted??? No. This is black and white --- people within the administration authorized torture. Torture was conducted by 3rd parties mostly from what I have read with some CIA thumb twisting thrown in.
These people should be prosecuted. These are the people who authorized and conducted torture.
Legal opinions are --- and should be --- exempt from prosecution in my opinion. These men should be disbarred and punished to the fullest the Bar can; however, what they gave was an opinion only. Bush could have sought other opinions but he and the gang CHOSE not to. They are the culpable one's. Piss-poor legal analysis should not be punished in the courts otherwise we jeopardize the entirety of our legal defense system.
Just my opinion.
lots of fun. Wonderful thing is that in the land of the free and home of the brave, it is completely legal. It's not like the Nazi's, because the good torturers wear Old Glory lapel pins instead of Swastikas, which makes all the difference. Let's not live in the past. Let's move on.
"Nothing nasty to see here" "liberty" "freedom"
Ya, something like that makes sense.
Then we are done as a nation of laws and will have officailly become a banana republic!
Hell of a club, that club open only to politicians and their minions! Do whatever you want, and there is absolutely no accounting - no matter which party is in power - at least for some.
For crying out loud! They impeached bill clinton over his lies about a blow job! Just what does one have to do these days to rise to that level of criminality or that level of misdemeanor?
The hypocrisy is just staggering, and so very disappointing, especially now that the democrats are in power (almost in "absolute" power, at that).
It is so very apparent that our system of governance is gravely broken. How long do we have left before fascism takes full hold?
..it was he lied about it!
I don't know, that's so funny - BushCo commits an illegal act, admits to it and its not worthy of investigation.
OBL is rolling on the floor in his hut!
I think the chorus says it all!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bZzM4s0Hgs
This is sickening. Move along folks, there's nothing to see here.
I have never believed that "America" would put one of their own on trial, and convict them of war crimes for the whole world to see. It's way tooooo un-American: you're the good guys in the white hats. (I did have a bit of HOPE, but never believed it.)
Ain't gonna happen. The 'wisdom', as I observe it, goes like this: The myth of "noble America" would be destroyed forever; your 'brand' in the toilet. Better to sweep it under the carpet, so people can forget about it, and move on. People will forget, given enough distractions.
Obama, Holder, DoJ, prove me wrong, please.
This is a joke. You now have documentary evidence of John Yoo talking about strategy where the President could just pardon everyone involved in the torture if charges ever came up, while also hyping up planting seeds to get a jury to nullify. Taking that into account with the ridiculously poor legal research that ignored both domestic and international law regarding torture and water torture specifically, where even Reagan's DOJ got some local law enforcement put in prison for water torture in US v. Parker, and it is 100% clear the John Yoo knew he was pressing for an illegal program of torture, as did his superiors. This is a crime without even bringing up international law. It's specifically defined as such in 18 USC 2340A(c).
"(a) Offense.— Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(b) Jurisdiction.— There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if—
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender.
(c) Conspiracy.— A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy."
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec...
I'm tired of this. If there is not an investigation and prosecutions, Obama has lost my vote. I've already written his people telling him so and I strongly recommend that you do the same. He did not win by so much of a landslide to completely ignore the rule of law and alienate those of us who believed him when he said there would be "change" on this topic. If Holder doesn't have the spine to pursue this, nor does a special prosecutor come into the picture as a result, and Congress also decides to just play silent, Obama should understand that Nader is back in the picture. It is absolutely mind boggling to me that this is the way things are going. I am so disappointed at having witnessed, for years, what is a clear violation of the law and the complete spinelessness and disinterest of our government to do a damn thing about it.
It is simply not acceptable that statements are being passed on that these so-called lawyers will not face any prosecution. What a joke. Threaten them with it, along with the full 20 years, unless they sing about their superiors. That's generally how criminal investigations and prosecutions work when it comes to conspiracy when the small fish are caught first.
are going away to a federal prison when this is all over? How's the Trump Towers treating you Keith? Oh sorry
I agree. It is indeed very unlikely that these guys have any convictions, at least in the moral sense. Yep, completely without any moral convictions of any kind.
if it bit him on the ass. He lectures about being a New Yorker and diversity and he lives in the trump towers? fu
Most Americans are really pissed off. Bush/Cheney started a war on false pretense, then killed thousands of people, and tortured. Now these neocons are rewriting history on Fox News to protect their butts. Our nation has a tarnished image but we have begun to take steps in a positive direction. Vote.
man... Keith Olberman making voices kills me. Fox mascarades as news. and here is msnbc trying to be credible and spending the time cracking bad jokes about serious things...
and liars on trial, but there's always the international war crimes court in the Hague. Or maybe the people will rise up and demand justice...
I'm truly hoping that someone starts the prosecution of all of these war criminals... seriously America was right there when it was time to try the Nazis and the Japanese after WWII. What the hell happened to the U.S of A. we used to know, huh?! Now it's just somewhat pathetic, disgusting, and amoral.
Those republican(t)s really do have one set of rules for everyone else and no set of rules for themselves and their buddies.
that people tortured in my name and our shitty government will not do a goddamned thing about it. I can only conclude that those who have the power to investigate and indict will not do so because they too are guilty.
I am ashamed to be an American at this point.
Livid in Liberty
I agree
It's not just republicans that want to sweep past crimes under the rug Debber. Obama is willing to commit new crimes to hide the old as are his appointees as are the democrats.
.
Whereas some prefer to play "FOLLOW the LEADER"...
... America was founded on "FOLLOWING the LAW"!
After hearing of this, what else does OBSTRUCTION of JUSTICE mean anymore?
.
.
So, I CAN get a lackey lawyer to write a memo letting me drive drunk so that when I run someone over while driving intoxicated, I can hold up my memo and claim that what I did was legal?
.
According to Cheney, you can if a doctor signs off that you never endangered anyone's life during your drinking and driving sessions, because your doctor was always there in case anything happened. The trick is you just have to have the doctor present at all times to make sure he can fix anyone that has any 'problems' with your driving. That's what the drinking and driving laws are all about so what's the difference to Cheney. If someone gets injured or killed it's not because of you. Oh, and you must have a tracheotomy kit, but then it's OK.
Failing that you can claim you are a separate part of the citizenry and not subject to the normal rules.
When that doesn't work you can tell them that really bad things would have happened to the nation if you didn't drive drunk.
This disgraces my military service, tarnishes my faith in my country and the justice it doles out on a single hungry man that steals a fish to eat vs one who uses the Nurumberg defense for using torture.
I more than question my elected leaders and their actions on this.
If there is no accountability over these war crimes. When Nixon told Frost that, "When the president does it, it is legal" must be correct.
Time to send another email to the White House.
President Obama said he wants to hear from us, so
get busy and send a few lines to him.
"ENOUGH!"
These people should be hung.
Thanks bunches for your concern for civil rights Mr. First Black President. Gee, he doesn't _look_ like Richard Nixon, so how does a constitutional lawyer come to decide the rule of law isn't worth defending?
Is ANY fuckin BODY gonna be held accountable by this administration?
no ones above the law in america !,except the law! no nobodys going down for past crimes by this new administration , nobodys going to be held accountable for the continuation of future crimes under obama , the war in afganistans a criminal act from the bush criminals and is now a criminal act by the obama administration, from this point on every new death of civillians and our military is your fault! IF you let obama stay being led around by the war whores in the penagon and the corporations who profit off these wars ,
Hos special, Christanic terrorists refusing to punish their fellow Christianic terrorists. Lovely.
Why not allow the victims to punish these scumbag traitors?
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