Chris Wallace Opens Fox News Sunday by Asking if the U.S. is Headed Towards Socialism
By Heather Monday Jun 08, 2009 4:35amYou can view this video right here by getting the latest version of Flash Player!
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Nice "fair and balanced" opening there Wallace.
Uncle Sam wants you driving one of his cars, writing checks at one of his banks, and using his health insurance. Are we saving the economy or headed toward socialism?
(Originally posted on Sunday Jun 07, 2009 7:53pm)
John Amato:
I'd like to remind Chris Wallace that Uncle Sam under George Bush gave us terrorist attacks, two wars, torture, illegal wiretapping, a stock market crash and almost destroyed the world's global financial markets and much much more in eight years. I could think of many more, but you get the idea.
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No.
Longer answer. No we're not even close to some form of socialism, and Faux only uses the word to get a visceral reaction from folks that were conditioned by the Cold War to stop all rational thought (assuming they were using it at all) and denounce the socialist bogey man.
I think this says more about Faux News' demographics than anything else. Their audience must be older because I don't think voters younger than about 35 (or maybe even 45) have the sort of knee-jerk reaction to the word socialism that older right wingers have.
What we're getting is socialized earnings, but without any social benefits. Since 2001, the federal gov't has borrowed about $60,000 with you as a co-signer on the loan (most of it since 2007). If you are a double-income household, that's $120k which you will have to pay back with interest. And what have you gotten for your money? Free health care? Free education? Free infrastructure? Free national parks???? Nope. Oh wait, we will get 600k jobs, or so says my President. That's nice --- should help everyone laid off in .... March.
There is a terrible misconception that Democracy is inherently capatalist.
Poppycock!
Democracy (or representative republic, as we have) is a political system while capitalism ans socialism are economic systems.
Democracy and Socialism are not mutually exclusive. Nor is Socialism inherently evil.
Evil to the corporation, and their stooges.
Gave Socialism a bad reputation.
America rejects it (by name) because of the evils perpetrated by the USSR.
But strangely we adopt their standards for torure and lawlessness.
Everything you think you know about the USSR is a product of the National Security State Propaganda initiated by the American Fascists after WWII.
After FDR, the Wagner act of 1935 and the WPA, America was decidedly Socially Democratic.
The Fascists were hellbent on taking the country back. They succeeded completely.
Everything you think you know about this country and the world comes from their propaganda, it filters through everything. The media, the movies, advertising, it is in everything they touch.
Whatever was actually wrong in the former Soviet Union, it was a society with universal education and health care.
Look at America in the mirror and tell me what is so wonderful here.
We've got a cool semi-liberal president, that's about all. If he ends up bringing us closer to a progressive social democracy, I'll say he may have been the greatest president ever.
"Whatever was actually wrong in the former Soviet Union, it was a society with universal education and health care.
Look at America in the mirror and tell me what is so wonderful here."
Yes, I agree, universal education and health care are the way it should be, and yes, America has way more than its fair share of capitalist-caused maladies (or epidemics).
That doesn't erase "whatever was actually wrong" with the Soviet Union, however. There was a lot wrong--as there is here in the U.S. now (and has been for a long time). You are clearly one of the best-informed posters at C&L (caveat: my opinion), so I know you don't simply gloss over the cruelty and carnage that the Soviets were. No, we're not much better. There's nothing good to say for someone like Stalin, however.
I have to disagree strongly. The fact that the USSR had universal education (is that a good thing if you get indoctrinated rather than educated?) and health care (again, the universality of such poor healthcare does not really make that much better)... IMHO are no where enough to overcompensate for the fact that the USSR was a repressive regime.
For better examples of socialism, I would have referred to modern day Europe. Where they can implement relatively sane socialistic policies, sans having to oppress their citizenry and pervert their respective democracies.
The fact that the USA has warts does not make the former USSR a beauty queen by any stretch of the imagination.
How do you 'know' what you 'know' about the Soviet Union. Did it come from the CIA per chance?
The USSR was the great nemesis that the war profiteers needed.
But at the heart of their mission is also the struggle of the classes. Their mission and the struggle continues unabated.
I was responding on this basis to the person who brought up the USSR in the first place and was not trying to establish who had the ideal social system.
Naturally, the Soviets propagandized about their 'workers paradise'.
Whatever central purity there was to Lenin's socialist vision, any democratic idealism fell with the bloodshed of the three years of civil war that followed his seizing power. The USA was a cosponsor of the bloodshed.
The anti social hysteria in the USA was so great that Eugene V Debbs was thrown in jail for having criticized Wilson's pernicious entry into the War. Wilson had campaigned in 1916 that he would keep us out. Lying bastard.
Debbs in jail, a political prisoner in the country with the first amendment. Debbs campaigned for the presidency from prison.
In a more sane setting, FDR reestablished relations with the Soviets.
After WWII, the American Fascists, and I don't use that term lightly, wanted to keep the war bucks flowing. They succeeded in taking power and the USA again propagandized against the Soviets and the 'socialist' menace .
The anti social propaganda that followed was massive and it was all pervasive. It served multiple purposes and the full nature of it is yet to be studied, certainly by me.
But I stand by this completely:
To this I would ad, to them, you are not a citizen, you are a consumer.
Here is Parenti on the overthrow of communism and the 'millions' who did not come streaming out of the 'gulags'.
Why not? Because there were never millions in there. That is not to say there were not political prisoners. A few thousands do not millions make.
Also see Chomsky on Class warfare, here (from 1995, not 1998 as I indicated).
I trust the likes of Parenti and Chomsky, but very few others.
I don't intend on apologizing for the Soviets.
Does anyone here want to apologize for the American Fascists?
I spend my life trying to learn the truth and avoid falling prey to anyone's propaganda.
I need to find things out for myself.
I went to Chile in 1971 and saw a tranquil social democracy hard at work trying to solve the problems of its people.
I listened to long speeches by Allende who was a peaceful social democrat, even if long winded.
The CIA overthrew him at the behest of Anaconda Copper.
The USA has a lot more than warts, it has blood on its hands.
Blood by the boatloads. It is flowing on this very day.
Right you are.
sad but true...
All of Europe has been or is socialist to some large degree.
The US propaganda machine lies to you about what Socialism is. It wasn't the USSR despite it's name, that country was a totalitarian Communist dictatorship as established by old Uncle Joe. Neither are China, Vietnam, North Korea or any of the other places the US tries to paint as Socialist.
On the other hand the UK, France, Denmark, The Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Iceland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Austria et al are ALL socialist to a great degree.
And you sure don't want to be like them do you?
After the last 8 years of capitalist hell...I say we SHOULD give socialism a closer look.
an example of socialism that's already here: http://mises.org/story/2423
Give this person a cigar, they've hit it right on the head! Nicely done, oh, nicely done.
Big Business/Corporations want you driving one of its cars, writing checks at one of its banks, and using its health insurance. Are we saving the economy or headed toward socialism?
socialism, my reaction is either to laugh, shrug, or roll my eyes.
The Red Scares of the 50's and 60's are alien to me.
When is Chris Wallace going to pull his head out of his own ass?
republicanism is a mental illness!
socialism until we threw the bum republicans out of office!
WTF are they talking about. The only question is who will benefit
from the socialism. Right now it's big corporations sucking up the
wealth and producing less then nothing in return.
Give people, ALL PEOPLE, health care, a job and a place to live
and they will thrive....THAT'S AMERICA
What we're living in right now is borderline corporatism, or fascism.
We haven't seen anything approaching socialism in this country.
Read and Think!
Socialism is based on the "transfer payment", the idea of
shifting wealth from one sector of the economy to another.
Government subsidies, defense contracts, R&D funding, etc.
are "transfer payments", but instead of shifting the wealth
down it is shifting the wealth up. It is not borderline
corporatism it is full blown corporatism, but the terms
aren't mutually exclusive.
Whatever we call it, it SUCKS!
I see it like this. Corporations are totalitarian
entities, not democracies. If they buy and sell
congress, then they are our de facto rulers.
Until we clean up the legalized bribery that is
campaign finance this is all academic.
This country is SO fucked up right now.
Corporate welfare is f*ing huge!
What a fuckin idiot.
Het.
Has this idiot never heard of the "social" contract?
... they're the Morlocks, we're the Eloi.
We have to not only reject their premise, we have to educate ourselves and fight back.
Maybe we SHOULD head closer to Socialism... our current system that leaves too many behind and cares little for the well-being of it's citizens sure isn't working. Until WE control the message we will always lose to people like Wallace the pretender. Until then I am afraid we will have to listen to the drivel spewed daily... unless C+L decides enough is enough and concentrate on the GOOD we are doing. Frankly, I tire of the constant bombardment of poo from the right. EIGHT YEARS of this shit is taking its toll on my health.
I was talkin with this guy and his wife, and the dude starts flappin his jaw about socialism...
I asked him, "So, the last eight years of capitalism run amok, was ok with you?"
That actually got him thinkin.
I think I may have to talk more with that dude. Try to lure him away from the darkside.
That's the way to do it. Look for openings and expose people to the truth.
One by one. Keep hammerin' away and challenge bullshit with facts.
One convert at a time.
"socialists" died so guys like that can have a days off, vacations, insurance, schools, roads, clean food and water.
Something conservatives fought tooth and nail to deny us.
most conservatives get all kindsa pissed off when confronted with that gem.
like cornered beasts, shaking their heads looking at their shoes, praying their cellphone will ring.
few jobs, permanent vacations, no insurance, lousy crumbling schools, poison corporate food, and water in toxic plastic bottles soon to be scarce. Score!
Are Morlocks tipsy Worlocks who don't know their heads from their asses?
it's from "The Time Machine" by H.G. Wells
I knew where it was from.
The arrogant SOB tried to sue the makers of the movie Metropolis over the use of what he considered his theme.
I also would like to point out to these people that no one MADE the banks join the FDIC (Federal Depositor Insurance Corporation). But no one is going to put money in a bank without it.
So when the bank fails and the government steps in, that was part of what they agreed to when they joined the FDIC.
PS: a "hat tip" would of been nice, as I noted this in the Sunday morning thread the moment he said it. :(
Didn't boosh also give us two recessions?
It isn't as though the banksters/insurers/automakers did anything unsavory.
Golly, everything was perfect for the last eight years but then Obama got elected and...and...
aw, crap.
Ever hear of cause and effect, Chrisp?
Are we headed toward a better society with liberal values such as universal healthcare, a better environment with pollution free cars, and a greater social safety net for the underprivileged? That is a good discussion to have on a balanced network. Faux is not the right place for such a serious discussion.
Whatever Congress approves is what THEY get.
George Dubya started this move towards corporate socialism last year. Faux Noise tries to spin history so conservatives can keep living in their dream world where they are always "right".
If he had mentioned ACORN in the same sentence, he would have received two gold stars on the Glenn Beck meter.
I love that Welfare for the Rich…
Master please don't beat me again…
I love that Welfare for the Rich…
Until morale improves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO-kfrG4fwQ
I will NEVER claim to be a princess.
The movies are propaganda.
Obviously, if his name wasn't "Wallace" he'd be flippin' burgers right now.
the best part of c. wallace ran down his mothers leg.
as a brown stain on the mattress.
the rug.
letting the dog hump her leg.
haa haaaa
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/08/us/08wichit...
I am here to remind everyone:
Tomgram: Alfred McCoy, Back to the Future in Torture Policy here
The only thing new about torture is cellphone photography and internet dispatch.
Not much new about the National Security State (Clinton and Carnivore) except perhaps efficiency.
Wars (too many in the past to list) and we are not leaving the ones we have, here.
Corporate Welfare, where does one begin. It doesn't end with Obama, he is right on board.
Paulson's Plunder is now Obama's blunder.
The more things 'change', the more they stay the same.
This mainstream media bullshit is just froth to keep the dumb asses confused about what is and is not happening. And it is good for selling soap or whatever crap they are selling.
You keep on going.
"Uncle Sam wants you driving one of his cars, writing checks at one of his banks, and using his health insurance. Are we saving the economy or headed toward socialism?"
Should read: We the people want us (we the people) driving one of our cars, witing checks at our banks and using our health insurance. Are we saving the economy or headed toward socialism?
The correct answer is saving the economy.
Ratings must be declining.
But to keep coming back to the same dry well is insane.
But then again, we're talking the GOP.
Jesus, these Republicans are afraid of *EVERYTHING*- And before they paint socialism as being the big bad bogeyman, they need to realise US style capitalism is an abject failure..
It's not even a question of failure.
Economic systems run on a continuum.
If we're talking about caveat emptor and laissez fair, that hasn't been the case since around 1900, and if we're talking about every citizen a small shop owner, when has that ever been the case, especially since Walmart?
if his Mother and Father wishes abortion was an option back when he was born. It would have to be in retrospect because I'm sure looking at that newborn baby they had no idea that he would grow up to be a total ass. Mike talks about depression and I can see why he got that way. I would be depressed myself to be reminded every day that that was the legacy I was leaving behind.
investigative reporter; I can remember him exposing the dark side
of the "Jesus Freak" movement in the early seventies.
His son is a wannabe Goebbels.
what is so wrong with socialism, may I ask?
What a looney bin we're in.
America's closest allies are Socialist countries, not that you'll be hearing much about that except to maybe bad mouth them when they don't fall into line when it is demanded of them.
If the poor and middle class would stop making such a big deal about subsidizing the wealthy, then class warfare would go away..... those pesky poor and middle class should just accept their fate and let the wealthy control everything ;-)
he said they assembled some big thinkers. That should pretty well tell you the rest of the story.
What is it with the COWARDS on the right, they learned a new word now they try to shove it done our throat and they do not even know what the word means or how it applies. Lets see illegal wiretaps sounds like socialism to me, Privatizing PROFITS SOCIALIZING LOSSES sounds like Socialism to me, Your with me or against me mentality sounds like socialism to me. There is more then there is space to write, do these Idiots really think other than the Wackos that any body is listening to them. Jon Steward said it best we bailed Wall street and they gave us NOTHING, we bailed the Auto makers they make cars. Now notice which one is Socialised yup WALL STREET.
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. "Socialism" is code for all the scary stories about KGB, collective farms, children ratting out their "subversive" parents, and so on. Especially the older members of the republican base not only think of all the propaganda fed to them throughout their childhoods, but they think the US government was perfect until the last election. Changing something that is perfect is unthinkable to them. Sad and naive. But we are in charge now...aren't we?
It smells an aweful lot like Fascism to me.
Lobbyists?
After all, they pay to play.
WE're socialists, pagans, racist's, racialists.....It's only Monday, I wonder what will come later in the week?
Ron Jeremy?
Here is an idea- If Republicans in the House and Senate are so opposed to socialism, then can i assume they will *refuse* to accept the taxpayer funded health plan for all Senators and Congressmen?
Why can't they go out an 'buy their own coverage', rather than rely on socialism? ; )
But do you think they will bring that up?
hell no!
he doesn't call me a conservative republican I can live with the insults. Call me conservative republican and I get my gun out
We're allowed to have guns? (insert snark)
Wait a second, I thought being a liberal or a progressive meant that we have to become vegetarians and surrender our guns.
and hug trees, and listen to new age music set to whale sounds.
Also, we MUST wear Birkenstocks and use entirely too much patchouli!.
Where was I when we had this meeting?
I'm totally on board with the whole gay thing... I already consider myself as a male lesbian.
Next time...open a window for chrissakes!
call me tongue brother
Easy fellas...Remember last week when we discussed my roommate?
Don't wanna offend anyone now do we?
};)>
Here's what I like to read on the toilet:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/hist...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FazS5Zs7k8
foot sliding, like in bathroom stalls.
Try opening the toilet lid first.
You can be the male lesbian, and I'll be the gay man trapped in a woman's body.
That I have to stop going to church?
I love my church!
stop goin to your favorite church.
You have yo become either
A) Pagan
B) Devil Worshipper
C) Agnostic or Atheist
D) Unitarian
E) Catholic
People always forget about us...
We get no love.
http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/answers/arti...
nature of you Deists!
HA!
Hugo Chávez says Jesus was a socialist.
Gandhi said something like: how unlike your Christ are your Christians…
Go to a Church, if that is your choice.
I believe we are born, we die, that is it and we are responsible now, for what we do while we are here.
Shit, Piss and Die are the only things we HAVE to do in life. Everything else is a choice.
We have to eat....and pay taxes.
I'm rather fond of boinking.
But ya don't GOTTA!
And I don't GETTA!
starve and evade taxes
for a bit too long...they're now gonna garnish my wages...so I may indeed starve, but the taxman will get my moneys.
Why not eat the garnish?
I've been burning patchoulli for centuries.
I like it best in lump form over a charcoal braizier, but it's getting harder to find it in that form.
Frankincense and myrrh are also good in lump form. It doesn't last as long, but it's intense.
in tents?
It's a heavy cloud, and the charcoal has to be designed for that use, otherwise it's poisonous.
Bad idea.
burns well in a tent or bong,pipe or joint
that's a given.
Almost a requirement.
?
It makes me sneeze. :( Can I substitute sandelwood? Please, please, can I?
Anything but neocon.
fas·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921
1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
That Fascism might as well be called Corporatism, as it is the merging of state and corporate power.
his daddy must be soooooooooooo ashamed of his spawn...
His daddy was asked about it once and changed the subject right quick.
From overseas in Europe the US looks like a total nuthouse that has no clue about anything.
Really.
When I was living there I knew how loonie the US was becoming but until I had left for a while and witnessed how the rest of the world is it has become painfully obvious that the dumbing down of America has had the desired effect.
God help the lot of you, you are going to need it.
Well there's one hopeful sign,
The newest will farrell movie has bombed.
Hoozah!
Perhaps "The Hangover" is more symbolic of where we are as a country. We thought we could skirt around responsibilities and just have fun for a few hours (years) and it not have consequences.
We are struggling now with a hangover, trying to piece together of what happened in the last (not eight) but 30 years.
I ain't gonna go out and spend money on it though.
And I definitely wanna see The Hangover.
But Colbert has had his head shaved.
That can only mean ONE thing...
The end is NIGH!
REPENT YE SINNERS REPENT!
Or not.
I'd like to shave my head smooth, and paint a urethra opening on top.
Wallace, please prove that "saving the economy" and "heading towards socialism" are mutually exclusive.
Since FDR "saved the economy" by moving us a baby step closer to socialism, I doubt you can do that.
This is typical everyday of the ignorant sheep and braindead morons, like walrus, on Faux Noise lies and hatred.
Never happen.
More likely to be a collection of kooks, quacks, frauds, fanatics, lunatics, charlatans, lemmings, parrots, demagogues, shills, geeks, polemicists, ideologues, propagandists, paranoiacs, zealots and manic depressives with a messiah complex
that George Bush did all that while Fox News stood by and led the cheers.
your daddy mike was able to have a long and distinguished career in journalism without resorting to being a republican shill. why do you have to?
Because unlike his father he's a talentless hack.
These people are so disingenuous it boggles the mind. They really don't have any solutions. They say let GM go bankrupt but they don't tell you what would happen if GM closes down. They say let the chips fall where they may but they are so myopic that they don't realize it would be worse for them, the rich, if it did happen. Same with the banks. In the press it has never been explained very well the what and how of the banking crisis so the average person just thinks that the banks got all this money just because they were friends of Bush and very rich. It is much more complicated than that. There is a "This American Life" program that did a pretty good job of explaining this stuff. In fact there are two of these programs. I highly suggest you listen to them. To let you know how well they explained it even I understood it. The first one is called "Another Frightening Show About the Economy." The second one is "Bad Bank."
You really should pend some time and listen to these programs. You will understand a lot more than you do and will give you ammunition for your future posts.
You know, we have this discussion every week after the Sunday "bullshit hour" is over. Faux always lies; the other programs distort and sensationalize what's going on, focusing on the trivial-- when they're not missing the point altogether; a progressive voice is very seldom ever heard.
Is there anything that can really be done about this? We write the editors, we boycott the products (if not the shows, themselves), and we vent here. Is there something more effective (and legal) we can do that we're not? Because we don't seem to be having any impact on the MSM's lie machine.
Stop watching the channels that broadcast this biased or inane tripe.
I wonder how many times Mike Wallace wonders aloud why he didn't pull out.
We're already there.
BWAAAHAHAAA!
Not even close.
Americans wouldn't know Socialism if it were explained to them.
How do I know this? Because it IS explained to them constantly and people still post comments like this.
Corporate welfare given out by corporate owned government is not Socialism, it's Fascism.
Yeah?
That it is, but it is also fascist (corporate control of the government).
Socialism is were the government gives control back to the people. Fascism is were the government takes your money and gives it to banks and robs you and your children and your children's children. Fascism is were you have corporations working in tandum with the goverment to control the people.
This country is supposed to be a constitution based faderal republic not a democracy. That means that your your unalienable rights can not be taken away. Democracy allows corrupt corporations and other enties to propaganize the uninformed majority to vote away the rights of the minority.
I hate it. Every morning "news" shows brag about their twitter, and ask poll questions you can only answer by texting, to show how "cool" they are.
Then there always saying, "Check this out...(and for traffic jams)...You might want to bail..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn85BeeiwZo
and ask if the US was then headed towards facism?
they almost succeeded in the cheney/bush years, and now they persist. They are trying like hell to divide this nation. There are enough of them, many on the fringe, who can be and WILL BE persuaded to take up arms against us. What a shame. Just when we finally get a President who is trying to correct the warmongering propensities of this nation.
This country was founded upon blood.
We reap what we sow.
What a joke. This "socialism" scare technique will probably work on the ignorant and feeble minded. I'm sure they are all climbing over each other in the hills of Tennessee on this one...but anyone with a brain should see the shallow game they are playing.
These idiots are really leading the nation of morons with this BS.
You'd be surprised at the sheer numbers and wide distribution of these morons.
My parents live in N CA, supposed to be a bastion of liberalism and hippies right?
Wrong.
Leave the SF Bay area and you are in the land of liberal hating gay bashing God fearing right wing freaks ready to wage war on the commies trying to drag the nation down to the level of those horrible Godless European sex and drug freak wimps.
I kid you not. It is far more wide spread than you might think.
Like the clap?
Just like that!
Only more like Chlamydia, there is always someone within spitting distance with it but you probably don't know it.
Odd that.
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