January 10, 2010 03:00 PM
Bill Kristol: The Stimulus Isn't Stimulus -- It's More Debt
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Bloody Bill Kristol on Fox News Sunday claims that "the stimulus isn't stimulus" and says it's just resulted in more debt and says if the President "stops doing foolish things at least we can get some kind of recovery". Of course Bill has never found anything "foolish" about more military spending or worried about the debt we've incurred from it for that matter. We can always bankrupt the country to drop more bombs on poor people's heads, but heaven forbid not to get people back to work.
If it isn't about war then Kristol has no idea what he's talking about. Wait, he's clueless when it comes to war too. I'll meet ya in hell Bill.
is intended to be a factual statement
and kristol isn't just a pile of sh*t
he's a pile of luke warm stepped in sh*t.
Bloody Bill wants you to think he's hot shit in a champagne flute, but he's just a cold turd in a dixie cup.
Are the names of the persons which have put us in this disaster and debt never spoooooooken...
BUSH <<>> CHENEY <<>> & The Republicans.......
There that was not hard was it..
Obama is just a chump for defending and protecting Bush , Cheney and the republicans for their crimes and destruction to our country and Citizens..
Obama is naive and has the wrong persons as his advisors , or he is just a person with a speech and that all folks...
Obama and the democrats have taken a successful election for the democrats and turn it into the biggest disaster for them ever...
I Didn't believe anyone could screw up the success the democrats had in 2008 so much and so fast...
None
First it isn't stimulus it IS debt. I disagree with his love for blood but at least he is honest about it and not a liar.
Kristol is not a liar is... is...Gawd I don't know what it is.
and it goes back to the question I have put forth here on C&L countless times and never get a reasonable answer to.
With what money? Where do people think this stimulus is coming from? We're $12 trillion in the hole, our nation is insolvent. Solution fire up the printing presses and force other nations pegged to our dollar to buy our debt.
It's debt and we won't be paying it off, we will default on this debt, that is the reality. Somehow though I don't a lot of people are going to get it until that moment comes.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
Every broken clock is right twice per day.
I couldn't watch. Is he _complaining_? Seems to me the Wall Street bailout money is going to exactly the sort of people Kristol would approve of.
The money that should not have been spent went to exactly the sort of people Kristol would approve of.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
Uh, no. It' stimulous AND debt. They are not mutually exclusive.
We need stimulous (don't do it ys...) to get the economy going again, and the only way we're going to get it is by taking on debt.
It is the only way, short of cutting our "defense" spending drastically.
-but eight years later the US had a surplus, and could have paid off the debt if we wanted to. But the countries that bought our Bonds did not want it back; they bought the bonds to get rid of their excess cash, which would otherwise cause rampant inflation in their countries.
Governments are the best way to get rid of cash, and the US Gov is the best of all, thanks to our bloated military, and yes, our (inadequate) Social services.
If our grandchildren want to renege or the debt, they can, and it won't really hurt anyone, much.
The National Debt did NOT cause the current financial crisis: that is the current DEPRESSION. This was caused by Repug greed and stupidity, and is being maintained by Democrat/Repug green and stupidity.
The national debt was still there, the surplus was in the annual budget. The surplus was an insignificant gnat on the national debts ass. When the year closes whatever the deficit is at that time, it then is added to the national debt.
The next fiscal year starts a new deficit, the politicians like to talk about the deficit because it sounds so much smaller than the $12 trillion in the hole we are at now.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
The majority of US citizens cannot comprehend that the national debt is separate and distinct from any deficit or surplus in our nation's annual accounting... Furthermore, the majority of US citizens have not a clue that our annual GDP is or soon will be insufficient to cover our national debt, which is a more accurate index of how bankrupt is our nation.
Far more disturbing is how morally bankrupt is our nation. I cannot watch Bloody Bill or listen to his WATB voice, nor will I watch many others of his ilk--Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michelle Malkin, Dick Cheney, Liz Cheney, Ann Coulter, Barbara Walters,...OMG, the list is endless! I cannot bear to hear these unethical hedonists spew their deceit and their overblown hatemongering rhetoric.
Should be an interesting decade...if we can survive...
As Peter Schiff has pointed out a number of times the GDP should stand for Grossly Padded Data. When we’re told our economy is growing (meaning healthy), reference is being made to quarterly reports showing increases in the gross domestic product (GDP), after adjusting for inflation, using a “deflator” based on the CPI (which is fallacy because of hedonic adjustments).
In reality it's a measure of destruction because we don't really produce much in this country. The GDP started out as the GNP (gross national product) during World War II, when it was used to measure wartime production capacity. It was never intended to be used as a measure of the country’s economic well-being, and its shortcomings are laughably numerous.
The distinction between GDP and GNP, incidentally, is that GDP doesn’t care about the nationality of the producer. It includes everything transacted within our borders, even BMWs manufactured in North Carolina.(GNP, which is almost never used, would exclude foreign manufacturers in the United States and include goods and services produced by U.S. firms operating abroad.) GDP thus includes the totality of consumer, investment, and government spending, plus the value of exports, minus the value of imports. One big problem with GDP, although represented as a measure of economic health, is that it makes no effort to distinguish between transactions that benefit the nation’s health and those that subtract from it. Destructive activities are included as well as productive activities. So Katrina was a boom for business but it never accounted for all the destruction.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
...GDP should stand for 'Grossly Padded Data'"
Really? GDP = 'Grossly Padded Data?' Wouldn't that be 'Grossly Dadded Pata?'
me-oww!
True enough
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
Well, now... The actual numbers our illustrious 'economists' might assign to the concept of GDP are irrelevant (and, yes, I get that the numbers can be and often ARE fudged). It is the CONCEPT of GDP I target in my original comment. WE the People have not or in the near future are likely not going to produce enough goods, services, etc. to offset our burgeoning national debt. I would think that the value of our land, natural resources, and similar assets might offset this state of bankruptcy, but how much of OUR nation is owned by China, Japan, Germany, et al?
You are 100% right about that, it's where our efforts should be too, producing again.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
Sun, 01/10/2010 - 14:23 — Different Anonymous
First it isn't stimulus it IS debt.
Uh, no. It' stimulous AND debt. They are not mutually exclusive.
We need stimulous (don't do it ys...)
__________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KShkhIXdf1Y
(I've been having a late tea, and a nap).
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Did you have a roll with your tea?
;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgGGx2Or0Wc
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Thanks for the treat!
you can't stimulate with debt, because you are... umm... going into debt. It is like paying bills with a credit card and saying you are living within budget.. Bah.
To get the economy going we need production - not paper pushing and table waiting. The only thing fake stimulus will do is allow people to spend above their means on bullshit like new cars and BIG TELL-LIE-VISIONS.
Face it we are screwed because we don't produce squat.
If you have no money and are deep in debt and you want to stimulate your economy then you must borrow more. You don't get out a debt crisis by going deeper into debt. Since 2001 we paid have paid nearly $3.4 trillion on interest alone to date. That's just the interest! Nearly 50% of the interest payments are now leaving the country, which is different from past years when interest was paid to U.S. citizens holding the public debt.
Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir...
Wikipedia - Interest expense on national debt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_pu...
Compare that to what we have spent on the war effort at $950 billion since 2001.
Total Cost of Wars Since 2001
http://costofwar.com/
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
That's what Kristol said regarding invading Iraq. And you were saying about him not being a liar?
is intended to be a factual statement
Read a little history of, say, the 1930s depression and what Roosevelt did, and how effective that was.
PS: WWII did not stop the depression. It did help create the military-industrial machine though.
when FDR was in office, the dollar was backed by a 40% gold exchange standard, and the global economy far less intertwined and was not pegged to a fiat currency.
The stimulus is just more debt
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
you think Kristol is honest...
who else is as 'honest', Satan?
about his fucked up beliefs and his screwy ideas. He is not a liar the same way rove and palin are. He does not beat around the bush he says what he thinks.
If the roof falls in on your house and you don't have enough cash to fix it...you take out a loan to fix it that you will pay back later so you don't become homeless. Of course it's "necessary" debt. Kristol, like McCain, Lieberman and all the Sunday idiots have one goal ...to demean the Obama administration with the audacity of stupid.
on a house you can't afford to live in and your job has been eliminated and your creditcard debt is $14K are you still getting that loan?
to fix that roof, in 1982, 1985, 2000, 2004, and 2007, we have yet to pay back the cost of the Vietnam War. Borrowing more when you are already having problems paying the debt you have is suicide.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
And Bill Kristol isn't a commentator, he's a pasty piece of fecal matter.
He was a cheerleader for McCain picking Palin, doesn't that say all you need to know about him?
He and Lizard cheney need to pair up. They might really enjoy some good old fashioned Obama bashing and reliving their war stories. Okay, neither knows anything about war, but that doesn't keep them from loving it.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
as in "Dinosaur Turd".
I much prefer the term coprolites
Fecalite sounds like someone who eats s**t
But wants to watch his health.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Why are we listing to this clown? Because he says things so ridiculous we choke on our coffee?
Did anyone watch California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger this morning? He talked about working together and he has tried to do that for years.
He talked about things Obama did wrong.... and then gave him credit when he did something right???
We should be listing to people like Schwarzenegger and not this Kristol clown who is still looking for flowers in Iraq. (And yes it is worth while learning to spell Arnie's name. I don't think he's going away...at least I hope not.)
marry a Democrat? He attempting a hostile takeover of the Kennedy family or something?
Yes, it was refreshing to hear something other than the scripted Repub bleating. Maybe there's hope for some kind of united effort? No I doubt it!
ljmel
Watch the documentary about Enron, "The Smartest Guys In the Room" and see Cheney's role in making California -- and Schwartenegger -- what they are today.
Schwartzenegger is positioning himself as 'bipartisan', but there are other, wiser resources.
Unless, of course, you want to hear about what ambition and self discipline can accomplish -- ignorant of all historical perspective, but too ambitious to think that would matter.
But the (shudder) Governr is a neo-con thru & thru. His speaches don't mean diddly.
he has fucked his state while trying to sell it to corporations.
Some stuff you can't make up!
The people of California have only themselves to blame for California's economic and social woes.
relaxing and making a killing off this racket. Cost of the War on Terror. Adjusting for inflation, four times more than America spent fighting World War I, and more than 10 times the cost of 1991's Persian Gulf War (90% of which was paid for by U.S. allies). The war on terrorism looks set to surpass the costs the Korean and Vietnam wars combined, topped only by World War II's price tag of $3.5 trillion.
I can only guess their goal this time is to put $9.5 trillion in their pockets. So they can sit around in 40 years and brag over Scotches . . " World War II? Oh that was nothing my son compared to the wealth we generated from the WOT. Pocket change."
You can hear the revisionist spin in the coming years from Mr. Bloody. "There was no debt from the Bush Wars, it was the Stimulus that our children will pay for. Besides a war economy is a good economy...trust me."
ljmel
candy by the Iraqi people! It is true. Don't listen to what the silly left wing liberal media is telling you."
That's probably this psychos next stage.
Corporatocracy vs democracy.
Only other choice besides Obama are more Bushies. Kristol and the repubs haven't changed one bit except to become even crazier. Given another chance they will take us completely over the cliff. Spending freeze except for Wall street and Military (It's not 'defense' anymore). The media keeps their insanity alive.
The problem with our debt is, the countries that buy our bonds are running out of cash, due to the terrible Recession/Depression the USA is experiencing. Spending our money on 2 1/2 wars is not getting us much 'return' on the money. Spending on the stimulus and on other Social plans (such as Health Insurance) WILL give our country -and the rest of the World- an excellent return.
The man becomes more preposterous by the month.
He's a national nuisance.
And he's among the GOP 'elite' who foisted Sarah Palin on the nation.
What a disgrace he's become.
Sad, really.
Bloody Billy LOVED Palin. He even suggested her.
That's your "honest" and "accurate" man. Pah.
The Lost Decade for Jobs, Zero Hedge here
On January 1, 2000 there were 130.8 million employed persons in the US.
On Dec 31, 2009 there were 130.9 million employed persons in the US.
However, by 2009 there were 13 million MORE people who would like to be employed.
The entire decade was a wash.
The December jobs report showed 85,000 jobs lost with an unchanged unemployment rate of ten per cent.
What was not described were the 600,000 plus people who were dropped from the rolls for having given up.
We are in deep doo doo, and getting deeper.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Seeing most of everything they bought into worth half what they thought they were getting.
Plus the "experts" predicted a gain of 5000 jobs (wow wee) in Nov and we're surprised when the December losses report came out.
See I'm honest. I know everything we have-own is probably worthless ultimately at this point and needs to be revalued. Yet people keep saying wow isn't it nice home values are going back up I look at them and think . . man these people are gone!
The situation in the Black Community is even worse, much worse.
I am here to testify.
SocialistWorker: Black America's Economic Freefall
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
We've been in a world created by computer modeling and mathematical formulas.
They look really cool on computer screens, and make it easy for egotistical jerks to buy and sell companies, but it's not a basis for economic viability.
We've still not come to terms with the arbitrage fiasco of the Reagan go-go 1980s. We fell in love with illusion, and refused to look at underlying economic reality. See also: Narcissus.
My other advise is people who think they own homes find out how many other owners around the world own a piece of their place and mortgage.
Will the real owner please stand up.
.
This is how it happens.
Whenever they feel like it, the turds at the the military industrial complex push a few buttons because, you know, they've got to make billions too!
The whore-politicians at the service of the MIC go to the house and the senate and start acting up and whining and screaming... and, sooner or later, no other politician has the guts to (or the political benefit from) resolutely opposing war (as in, chaining themselves to their seats in the house/senate, or to the white house... you name it, anything you'd do if your OWN COUNTRY was about to be bombed... AND, even less, call for the president to be impeached, God forbid.
W was not impeached for having sent thousands of US citizens to fight for nothing and to come back in a box.
Clinton was impeached because the democrats at either the house or the senate were a bunch of whimps.
The US will ALWAYS fund wars, and only a few times, stuff that really works. And, to be honest, it is your -and just about every other US citizen's- own goddamn fault.
Why, you ask? For people like you not having sent this son of a bitch of Kristol -just like your predecesors were a bunch of whiners and suffered Kristol Sr.- to jail, for one.
(or bubble) was he did rein in Military spending and thus captial was being pumped into the private, consumer goods, and civilian sector. That ended with the 2000 Coup though.
I want a really well paid job where I can be wrong about EVERYTHING and still be considered an asset.
I would like to hear one person on the set ask Kristol, "What have you ever been right about"? But he doesn't leave FOX so all they do is nod in agreement with him.
Seriously, can anyone name anything Kristol got right?
is intended to be a factual statement
he's not even the proverbial broken clock,
instead he's a clock losing a second a day,
sixty days later he's a minute off,
120 months later he's an hour off,
240 years later he's the right time again... but not for long.
high pay and it shall not interfere with my social life either.
And staying in 2 wars is not more debt?? Maybe had Kristol served in the military he would not be so eager to start a another war.
pennlady
I wonder what Kristol Jr.'s opinion was on the two rounds of stimulus checks Bush ordered up? Or does that not count since it happened before the black guy got elected?
to consider buying a house.
But I'm SO certain it's a fucking ripoff -
we make 80K a year together and I'm going to hand over half of our net income to some mortgage company so that I can eat Ramen and scrape by everywhere else?
I want the whole system to crash and reset and then we'll talk.
Stimulus to pay for infrastructure is called
An investment.
Remember when businessmen used to say
"You have to spend money, to make money?"
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You have to steal money to make money.
To be technical
If the government did nothing but
Provide tax cuts for the wealthy
As the wealthy "experts" advocate
For the government that would be an expenditure
With doubtful returns.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
That's their end goal, and they don't have far to go at this point.
he's really an asshole.
Some stuff you can't make up!
he's a smug, useless little brat-child of privilege who will never, never, never have to worry about the consequences of anything he says or does.
Now which recent occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue does that remind you of?
Bo?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
That created such an uncaring, excuse for a person?
I guarantee, like most Conservatives, he believes it was World War 2. Military spending is the ONLY kind of spending they believe the government should be doing.
Well the war did help by destroying European and Asian infrastructure, so we had the only store in town from 1948 to about 1966.
And even then I understand there was a period of economic stagnation (recession) from April 1960 to February 1961
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It's hard to know what to say about that useless little shitass.
Of course the stimulus package costs money. It's a loan we're giving ourselves to get our economic machine running again. We promise to pay it back.
But really! Billy Blood is so negative about everything Democrats do. Except wars, of course. He's very happy about wars.
Sigh. Billy Blood, you're just like a little boy that found his grand daddy's revolver in the closet, and it's loaded, and he can't wait to waive it at everybody to show them how cool he is.
Grow up won't you, Billy Blood!
This man is a piece of dreck. I don't understand how he can look at himself in the mirror. Simply one of the most unamerican citizens we have.
it's just another opportunity to say something INANE AND MEANINGLESS about President Obama.
They are all doing it... being negative about everything Obama does.
Little Billy Kristol.
Overprivileged, overpaid, wingnut welfare recipient.
A track record of being wrong on just about everything, yet he always has a job.
Could it be because he is a professional liar/ BS artist?
Or is it because of who his Daddy was?
Probably a combination of both.
The only stimulus that works is given to someone that does not need it!
If you give it to kristol it's a good thing.
republicanism/conservatism is a mental illness and it is killing America!
I thought it was redundancies.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
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