Amy Goodman on Her Detention at the Canadian Border: This is Democracy's Loss
Amy Goodman weighed in on Democracy Now about her detention at the Canadian border and what it might mean for assuring that there is still a free press in Canada and that journalists are not intimidated into not covering stories that the government thinks are harmful to corporate interests.
Full segment and transcript available at Democracy Now.
JUAN GONZALEZ: That report from Kathy Tomlinson of CBC. But, Amy—Thanksgiving—tell us more about exactly what happened when you were stopped.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Juan, it was really incredible. It was Wednesday, the evening before Thanksgiving, and we’re headed to the Vancouver Public Library, driving up from Seattle. When we got to the border, I thought it was just going to be routine. We handed in our passports. They stopped for a minute, and they flagged us. They told us to pull over, and it’s pouring rain outside. We pulled the vehicle over. We had to get out and go into the facility.
JUAN GONZALEZ: And you were there with Dennis—
AMY GOODMAN: With Dennis Moynihan and with Chuck Scurich. We’re on our Breaking the Sound Barrier tour. And while folks here were eating turkey, we thought we’d go “talk turkey” in Vancouver and talk about the columns in Breaking the Sound Barrier with Canadian listeners to Democracy Now!. Three community radio stations in Vancouver run Democracy Now!
So, we pulled in, went into the border facility. It’s a large hangar-like space. And they start going through our car, but we’re now inside. And then the border patrol call me up to the counter. And the guard—
JUAN GONZALEZ: And obviously, to cross into Canada, people don’t need visas, they just—
AMY GOODMAN: No, that’s right.
JUAN GONZALEZ:—need to show identification.
AMY GOODMAN: You need your passport. And we were very surprised. It was almost empty, this whole hangar, so we were clearly singled out.
And I go up to the counter, and the guard says, “I want your notes.”
I said, “My notes?”
He said, “The notes for the talk tonight.”
I was completely taken aback. I went out to the car, and I brought in the copy of Breaking the Sound Barrier. And I came in, and I said, “Well, this is my new book, and it’s a book of columns. So I actually read from the columns.”
He said, “I want the notes.”
I said, “Well, these you can think of as my notes.”
And he said, “What are you talking about?”
And I said, “Well, I actually start with the last column, which is a column”—as I was saying in this report to Kathy Tomlinson—“about Tommy Douglas.”
Now, for people in the United States, he’s not as famous a name. But in Canada, he’s considered the greatest Canadian. Tommy Douglas is the Premier—was the Premier of Saskatchewan who brought, who pioneered the Canadian national health care system. And, interestingly, he’s the grandfather of the actor Kiefer Sutherland, right? Kiefer Sutherland’s mother is Shirley Douglas, the actress; his father, Donald Sutherland. But his grandfather was Tommy Douglas.
And, so I said, “I’ll be talking about Tommy Douglas.” Actually we were at the Douglas border crossing.
And he said, “What else?”
I said, “What else? Well, global warming.”
“What else?” he said.
I said, “The global economic meltdown.”
“What else?” he said.
I said, “Well, I’ll also be talking about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
“What else are you talking about?” he said. And—
JUAN GONZALEZ: Now, is it your sense that this was some rogue customs agent or that he had basically been alerted—
AMY GOODMAN: There with another—
JUAN GONZALEZ:—and had gotten instructions to do this kind of questioning?
AMY GOODMAN: He was working with a group of customs agents, with the border guard. I mean, they’re armed. Another border guard now has the book, and he’s reading it. But they’re also inputting everything I say. This border guard is handwriting all notes about what I say. And then the other border guard is going to the computer and inputting everything.
Then, they say, “What else?”
And I say, “That’s about it.”
And he says, “What about the Olympics?”
I said, “The Olympics? You mean when President Obama went to Copenhagen to push for the Olympics to come to Chicago?”
And he said, “And you didn’t get them.”
I said, “I know we didn’t get them.”
He said, “No, I’m talking about the Olympics here in 2010, in Canada.”
I said, “No, I hadn’t planned to talk about the Olympics.
“You’re denying that you’re talking about the Olympics.”—
JUAN GONZALEZ: Did you even know there’s an Olympics in 2010 in Canada?
AMY GOODMAN: This was not my topic, right? This is not so much news in the United States.
I really didn’t know what he was referring to. And he kept pushing. He was clearly incredulous. And at my surprise, he disbelieved me even further. He clearly did not think I was telling the truth. He kept pushing, “You’re denying you’re talking about the Olympics?” I said, “That wasn’t my plan for tonight.”
Of course, as the reporter had asked me, “And what if you said yes. What would have happened then?”
Anyway, he finally tells me to sit down. And they go out and they combed through the car. I got very alarmed at what was happening, and I walked outside to where the guards were going through the car. One is on my colleague’s computer, as if it was his. You know, he’s just—the computer was set up and he was going through it. They were rifling through the papers and everything. They told me to get back inside. I went back inside.
Finally they came in. We’re now over an hour and a half late to the talk. And they say for me to follow them into a back room. I go with them into a back room—the border guards—and they take my picture. They make four copies of the picture. They take Dennis and Chuck’s pictures. Individually, one by one, they take us in the back, one by one.
And then they attached them to what they called a control document. I said, “I wasn’t aware we needed a visa.” And they said, “These are control documents.” And they stapled them into each of our passports. And I opened it, and it said—the control document—that we had to leave by Friday. We were coming in on Wednesday—that we had to leave by Friday.
Then we were allowed to leave. We saw they had been through both of my colleagues computers, both Dennis and Chuck’s computers. I don’t know if they had gone into mine. And they had gone through the car. And we eventually arrived an hour and a half late to the talk.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Amazing.
AMY GOODMAN: To say the least, it was—
JUAN GONZALEZ: This is from our friendly Canadian neighbors.
AMY GOODMAN: Yeah, this was, to say the least, extremely jarring. I felt completely violated, I mean, personally and professionally. You know, and for journalism overall. Because this is not only a violation of freedom of the press, you know, the idea that, you know, the state is going into your papers, your documents, your sources, everything—but also a violation of the public’s right to know. Because if journalists feel there are things they can’t report on, that they’ll be detained, that they’ll be arrested, or they’ll be questioned, they’ll be interrogated; this is a threat to the free flow of information. And that’s the public’s loss, that’s democracy’s loss.
This is beyond the pale.
Amy is a good journalist.
I am nearly speechless.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
.....about the 2010 Olympics, eh? Enough to treat AG and her associates rudely, eh? Hmmmm.....You know, mebbe the Vancouver Olympics needs to be investigated and questions need to be raised!
I mean, c'mon, even the Bible gets it, it sez something like
"For the Guilty flee when no man pursueth...."
"Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"
....the truth about the Canadian Olympics®?
This seems to indicate that there does indeed need to be a serious investigation into what it is they're trying to cover-up.
And I'd look for the possibility of the Canadian and US governments planning a false flag terror attack to justify the occupation in Afghanistan.
Wow, oh wow. If these guys aren't fired and arrested for these actions, well, I'm afraid, very afraid.
It's pretty funny that the Canadians appear to have adopted American-style border-crossing techniques but rather than ostensibly looking for terrorists the Canucks are on the look out for people who might bad-mouth their hosting of the Olympics. Seems like they're a bit thin-skinned these days or maybe there's some scandal about the Olympics that they're trying to cover up?
Hmm, like the fact that they're planning on moving ALL the street people on the Lower East Side to holding pens outside the city, like they did in Atlanta?
Or the fact that they rammed the Olympics down the throats of Vancouverites who did not want them?
Or the fact that they built a 4 lane highway to Whistler through environmentally sensitive areas despite public protest?
Or the fact that the Olympic organizing committee is corrupt to the core and locals have been protesting downtown for years?
Smells like a coverup to me!
Canada did this? What kind of police state do they live in up there? Why would they try to silence Amy Goodman?
/SNARK
doesn't surprise me in the least. It's been going on ever since a bunch of idiot Canadian fisherman cornered an Alaskan State Ferry over a decade ago. From that day forward, the Canadian Custom Officials have treated anyone, especially Americans, crossing their border, like crap. I crossed their border on way to Alaska in May of '99; they stopped me, they emptied my vehicle, emptied every one of my moving boxes, took the seats out of my car, and basically stripped searched the vehicle, claiming I was being suspected of drug trafficking; then told me they didn't find anything and I could reload my vehicle; after I was finished, then came the questioning inside the office ..."Why are you moving to Alaska?, Who do you know in Alaska?, Have you ever transported marijuana?,etc, etc. Two hours after that there was a change of personnel, one came over and wanted the keys to my car, saying the first guards didn't do a thorough job searching my vehicle, and proceeded to empty my car a second time. The entire ordeal took six hours; I talked with several people in Whitehorse, they are not happy with the way the border guards are handling things, the people in Whitehorse rely on tourism, and this is killing their income they say. Now to find out its still going on does not surprise me in the least. I don't see it changing anytime soon.
I'm an American citizen, but my mother's Canadian, and we moved to Vancouver in 1976, when I was 8. My parents rented out our house in Seattle, and I moved back to Seattle in 1986 for college. I'm black.
My father and brothers and I were hassled for years by Canadian border agents, although more at the truck stop crossing than at Peace Arch Park. The agents were invariably rude and obnoxious, and our cars were routinely searched even though the agents knew everything about my parents' circumstance. It only ended when my father hired a lawyer and contacted the premier's office after one agent questioned one of my brothers' paternity, stating that he couldn't possibly be related to my father and that we were part of a gang.
Unfortunately, some people see a badge as a license to make up for all of the slights they suffered as children.
... independent journalism is going to face this more frequently, as long as access and credentials are controlled by people who decide what is legitimate and who are 'real' journalists.
The Soviet Union in the late 80’s recognized that in order to reign in corruption and enhance public welfare (and perception) openness was necessary. Gorbachev implemented a policy of Glasnost. It was too little, too late, but it was the right policy.
Secrecy, intimidation, and “National Security” concerns don’t work – in the long run. They provide a sense of self importance for those who implement such policies, but the policy is self-defeating.
And what is Canada afraid of? That someone will say the Olympics are bad for Canada? That may be the case, it may not, but either way, saying so won’t hurt that bad. So let’s see…
“The Olympics may be bad for Canada!”
Now, that didn’t hurt, did it?
Take care Canada. This is a dangerous path to follow.
well there MUST be something wrong with the Olympics there eh?
On the upside, perhaps this will calm down the throngs of Canadatarians who post here about all of the ills of 'Merica. (Not that they're wrong of course, it just gets a little tiring being berated by folks that don't live here. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only USer here...).
Glass house, self-examination time for our friends up north.
No offense intended.
I'm pretty unhappy with the way Canada is going under our conservative government.
Yeah, the Liberals are corrupt, but at least they kept us out of Iraq and gave us same-sex marriage.
If Harper had been in we would have been trying to push Blair aside in our rush to climb into Bush's lap.
when you need him. I was looking forward to see his spin on how this was really our fault somehow....
It's probably tough for most of us Canadians to know what it's like to cross into Canada without Canadian ID. Just as I expect that few Americans know what it's like crossing into America without U.S. ID. As bad as her experience sounds, if Amy & crew got through without getting fingerprinted then I've probably had a worse time crossing into the U.S. than she had crossing into Canada.
But please don't take that as me condoning what happened. The truth is that badness like this happens on both sides of the border all time time, and that is definitely a shame.
are they so sensitive about the Olympics? What could she possibly have said about the Olympics that would be so threatening?
There is a large anti-Olympic sentiment here in Vancouver and the government of our province is doing anything it can to silence any dissent and protest. Sure, there are a minority of protestors that are anarchists and want to cause trouble but the more people hear about how much this is all costing, its pissing many otherwise lawa-abiding people off. The Olympic bid in the first place was really just a scheme to get funding to fix up a highway from Vancouver to the ski resort of Whistler. The land developing buddies of the Premier of BC were salivating. I'm not necessarily anti sport or Olympics but the government here has been heavy handed in its determination to show the world our good side and hide its bad.
If a drone kills a child in Kandahar, do the crying parents make a sound?
The Gordo Gang doesn't like mean talk about their 5 Ring shakedown, eh? Quelle surprise! Transparency never was their strong point, as the people of BC have had opportunity to discover again and again over the decade.
A shame the CBSA can get manipulated by a name on a list into ill-informed repressive behaviors - but it's cut both ways like that for quite some time, sad to say.
Canadians are still stinging from the financial disaster resulting from the 1976 Montreal Olympics.
There was a similar climate years ago, too, in Vancouver in regard to SkyTrain. While it has since proved to be an economic engine, and a great addition to the city, the pols pushed it through notwithstanding public protests.
Canada has asked the U.N. to pass a resolution of truce for the games, something which has traditionally been done for other games.
Hypocritically, Canada will not abide by it, as they are presently involved in the hostile military occupation of a foreign country.
They also may not want people thinking it may not be a safe idea to attend a high profile event in a country at war with a nation that has known connections to international terrorism.
Of course, they could pull their troops out, but harassing journalists and free speech advocates is so much simpler.
What's the score?
Vancouver 2010 - Afghanistan 0
USA Paranoia Mission Creep Goes North And Finds Conducive Environment For Destruction Of Press Freedom!
We've done it!
The Canucks are now our bitches, doing our bidding to control the miscreants who may speak out against anything democratic.
Now if they will just listen to Miss Sarah and get rid of that damn national health care system.
That will be our crowning achievement. Woo-hoo! A servant Canuck for everyone. I can hardly wait.
As a Canadian, I got held up at the US border for well over an hour (while they searched all my luggage and the entire car) simply because I had long hair... I'm sorry, but this is a complete non-story.
"Tonight on Hard Copy: Border guard abuses his power to make himself feel like a big man".
That's never happened before, has it?
"I could give a flying crap about the political process.... We're an entertainment company."
- Glenn Beck - Forbes interview; April 26, 2010
because most of us Southerners didn't think your border authorities took on those characteristics to the extent imposed on Ms. Goodman.
Some of us really thought there was a higher standard regarding the level of authoritarian intrusion she experienced.
You thought that Canadian border guards never questioned or investigated people's stories? Is that what you are saying or did I misunderstand?
Also, I don't consider that a high level of authoritarian intrusion.
I highly doubt the border guards knew who Ms Goodman was. They may have determined she has a criminal record and they probably didn't know the story behind that one as well. They could have easily come to the conclusion that she and her group were radical activists posing as journalists (I mean radical as in law-breaking, not radical as in violent). And when she was unaware of what they consider to be the biggest news item in the area - the Olympics - they probably didn't buy her story.
What she claims were the motivations could be true, but so could the scenario I outlined above. This is just he said, she said. A non-story at this point.
authority. I was returning from Cape Cod in 1997 entering Ontario around the Kingston area. We made the mandatory stop at the duty free shop to buy all the cheap liquor we could, then proceeded to the border crossing. Unfortunately, one of the bottles I purchased had attached to it, at the neck, a sample of some other vodka. It was one of those miniature bottles you get on airplanes.
Joe cool border guy has a shit fit explaining that this has put me over the limit. What a dick!!! Had it not been for the fact he could have completely ripped my car apart under the guise of ensuring security I would have invited him outside for a little punch up. I've never looked at these border guards the same since that incident.
Times are a-changing. Canada has plenty of its own dicks. We have our own "GOP" lead by Harper-conservatives.
The reason we need passports to go back and forth is because, it seems, there is an inflow of terrorists to the USA, from Canada, because of our lax border security. Remember? Harper gladly tightened it up, while drooling over Bush's codpiece.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Soviet Union had nothing on these Canadians. Hell it would have been easier to visit Red Square during the height of the Cold War then that shit!
.
If you think fascism is a real danger in America, just watch how quickly it'll take over up here.
If it hasn't already. (We're too busy feeling superior about our healthcare and supposedly world-admired one-of-a-kind multiculturalism.) While the facts are still coming out how we're knowingly allowing Afghans to be tortured, the CBC found time to tell us about Chelsea Clinton's engagement.
The Quiet Unravelling of Canadian Democracy. . .
I'll worry about that too much. The country has essentially been run from the PMO's office since the country was founded anyway. Not much chance of a military coup either given the small size of the CAF and the fact that they're exhausting themselves in Afghanistan. The Mounties lack the competence to run their own police force never mind a coup. Who's left to take over?
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Maybe this was a false flag operation, trying to give an excuse for the US to change the Canadian regime to make it more "democratic" (read: more like us).
The CCanuck healthcare system is making ours look bad, so rather than improving ours... which requires a lot of hard work. We simply lower theirs down to our standards. Problem solved!
Take off, eh?
So much for the concept of free speech in the land of "The True North, Strong and Free".
It's appalling that Amy and her friends were treated in such a fashion, yet Dubya and Condi, two of the world's most dangerous terrorists, are always warmly welcomed whenever they visit this country. Disgusting.
To Amy and her colleagues, I apologize on behalf of Canadians.
...teh part that wears a white Stetson for 2 weeks in the summer. Coincidentally, the part that gave our great land its current PM - quelle surprise, redux.
;>)
Rub it in, why don't ya!
;)
After all, I'm a resident of that community myself, so a finger pointed would gain three returned.
;>)
You are forgiven, darkblack!
;)
Oh I remember it well..
YEEFUCKINHAW, IT'S STAMPEEEEDE TIME!!
Dubya cannot visit because he has a DUI.
but rules and laws are only for the little people. We mustn't forget that!
silly me.
Who ordered these border guards to do this? They clearly had been instructed to do this. Somebody needs to go up the chain and find out why.
This is the deal that has not been said. Somebody told these jokers to be prepared for Goodman. I suspect that the U.S. gave the Canadians a signal to hassle her and maybe even told the Canadians that she was up to no good. You can imagine that the U.S. government does not like Democracy Now. This is really no surprise. The real surprise is how she is able to travel as freely as she has been able to do.
Yup, "Change" we can believe in!
The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, brought massive reform of our national security system, bringing us the new Gestapo-like laws that allow warrantless wiretapping of Americans, confinement without due process and the USA Patriot Act, a heinous piece of legislation that robs all Americans of core freedoms and liberties.
didn't think . . Hey!!! What in T F~~K happened here! Who's responsible for this screw up!!!!
Bush Co should have been run out of Washington the next day.
This kind of stuff makes my blood boil, but I'm not sure Amy's experience is any more/less troubling than what many Americans experience daily at the hands of law enforcement.
How dare Canadians act like us. We expect more from our neighbors up north.
it's good. See Tue, 12/01/2009 - 07:14 — BlueSam
I've heard more whining over a more trivial inconvenience in my life. Oh the humanity! Amy Goodman did not get waved through into the country she wanted to visit? Democracy is done, finished. I'm beginning to get the impression here that a lot of people haven't crossed any boarders lately. Welcome to the post 911 world. Even if you have a NEXUS card you're still subject to random searches and inquiries at secondary. Mind you, I can see why Goodman, was horrified: she had to get out of her car, in the rain no less.(Well secondary is covered but it was still damp!) Bad news everyone: the world doesn't consist of drive-throughs anymore.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Searches of the kind she encountered are supposed to be reserved for those who may constitute a threat.
If you are serious, you are clueless about how this activity undermines basic freedoms.
I cross that border at least twice a week. Where on earth did you get the ridiculous idea that the citizen of any country has the "right" to enter another country. When the Canadian Government protested Mahar Arar's permanent exclusion from the US after he had been arrested, rendered to Syria for torture and ultimately found to be completely innocent can you guess what they were told? We don't tell you who to let in your country (although they do) you don't tell us who to let in our country. The thing I'm most curious about is how any customs agent is supposed to ascertain whether or not a visitor is a threat? Do they check the sign on the visitor's forehead? My guess is they ask them some questions in secondary. Maybe for as much as ninety whole minutes.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
. . . that's up to the British Crown, who, through the Governor General reserves the right to veto new laws and override your foreign policy.
not to be too hinky but I think you were just punk'd out
your name's Lebowski, Lebowski... and your wife is Bunny
about the same time you made shit up about what I wrote.
Let me rephrase that. I never got that idea. You made shit up.
OK.
How are they supposed to know...?
Well, in this case, they KNEW WHO SHE WAS and KNEW ABOUT HER SPEECH, so THEY KNEW WTF she was entering the country for.
Since they knew her, they would have already known that she presented NO FRICKING THREAT.
Their actions were unwarranted based on the facts of their knowledge about the subject.
As for others...maybe, just maybe...they receive threat recognition training so they are better equipped to identify possible threats and act on them so that the real bad guys get a hassle that is well worth it, but the average traveler isn't subject to the same level of intense, invasive scrutiny that somebody who has demonstrated signs of possible ill intent will receive.
That clear it up for ya?
Damn. They are supposed to be professionals. If they can't work to ID potential threats better than this, then the manner in which Ms. Goodman was treated is possibly the only way we all should be handled when crossing into Canada.
I don't believe anybody wants or thinks we need this at any border crossing between our countries.
We don't tell you (Canada) who to let in your country (although they do) you don't tell us (USA) who to let in our country.
It seems to me, by your own statement, the USA has a lot of say about border crossings both ways --Peter.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Sometimes the why is more important than the what.
In Sept 2008, Amy was arrested along with her producer as they were covering the RNC convention in St Paul. That was worse treatment. But at that time, she was (illegally) arrested for simply being at the wrong place at the wrong time. NOT because she was a journalist.
At the Canadian Border, she was apparently detained BECAUSE she was a journalist. It was asked “What IF she was there to write about the Olympics?” It’s a valid question. Would she have then been denied entry? Worse? I don’t know the answer, but even asking the question is disturbing.The why should be obvious.
she has a criminal record. Care to guess what your chances are of getting into the US if you have a criminal record? I'm also quite certain that she was detained briefly because she was a journalist. Guess what? If you go to work in another country you generally need a thing called a work visa. If you're a self-employed free lance journalist you absolutely need permission to work in another country. It matters who's paying you and where.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
According to her own account, the concern of the guards was not that she had a criminal record, that she needed a work visa, or that her required paperwork was not in order. The concern was over what she might say, as a journalist: specifically of what she might say about the Olympics in Canada. This is selective censorship and intimidation.
Others have mentioned that they are routinely subjected to similar treatment at the border. You say rightfully so. But when that treatment becomes routine enough to use it for purposes other than security, there is a danger. That danger is that the Canadian government will use selective detainment to dictate and enforce policy – not laws. If this is indeed happening, it is a dangerous precedent.
Those customs officers could have used her criminal record as an excuse to deny her entry. They could have denied entry because she was coming to work in Canada without a visa (Promoting books is a gray area). They didn't though did they? They let her in. I really don't think she has a lot to whine about.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
-to inform people that Canada's border agents have become just as vicious and paranoid as the U.S. customs. And ostensibly due to the 2010 Olympics?
I'd say her story is a "Heads Up!" moment.
That said, an Englishman who wished to attend a Real Estate conference in San Diego (a couple of week sago) was held -in jail,in shackles- for Seven Days while our Immigration Svc "checked his background". He has no idea why, he's just glad they finally released him. Guess he didn't enjoy the conference.
Heads up, for sure.
The use of intimidation to silence journalism, or any voice not in lockstep with the OBEY-us, largely-conservative ideology. Dissenting voices must be quieted.
So what, if she were planning to talk about the Olympics? Is that a crime? Clearly that was the border guards' concern.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Yep, you're right. ONE example of a border guard doing this means its Fascism all the way! Anything else you'd like to blow out of proportion?
"Is that a crime?" Was she arrested? No? Then I guess its not a crime.
It is not a precedent. This is common practice at any US crossing.
"Out of the bus Mahmood!"
That's bad too.
The problem with racial profiling isn’t that you won’t catch any bad-guys; it’s that you’ll target the innocent. When you can target the innocent, you can intimidate anybody, anywhere, for any purpose.
If you think that they were concerned about the olympics because they asked about them, then you don't know anything about customs guards. They ask questions to catch you up.
I got quizzed about international stock markets last time I tried to enter the US. You tell them your profession and they quiz you on it.
Really, they probably doubted her because she had no idea about the olympics. Shes a journalist, presumably, and she's coming into BC on professional business and isn't aware about the biggest thing going on there in a couple months? They probably thought she was lying.
If she hadn't been such an uninformed twit and said, yeah, I know about the olympics but I'm not here to cover them, she probably would have been held for 10 minutes and let on her way.
You didn't watch the video, did you?
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Did you? What is it in the video that refutes ANYTHING I just said?
She got stopped, questioned and searched - this happens EVERY SINGLE DAY at the borders.
She has NO proof that it was censorship, but she has a "hunch." Thats it. No proof of anything. Nothing in that video was proof of anything either - just her OPINION.
So tell me Edwin, what is wrong with the statements I have made? Do you have a point, or just more "cute" dismissive statements?
produce a criminal record?
Or does it take charges being filed and a case brought to some conclusion?
you think Amy Goodman was upset because she had to get out of her car in the rain? Unbelievable.
Just so you know, Peter, I don't expect visitors to Canada to be simply waived through the border like in the good old pre-9/11 days. The treatment Amy and her friends received was over-the-top, disturbing and unwarranted.
but this sort of thing is absolutely run-of-the-mill normal at border crossings. I'm quite certain Goodman thinks she's been treated abominably but this may be the first time she's been treated like a normal person. Welcome to the real world Amy.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
from university in the US...I was driving a 66 VW microbus...
and it was a long long border crossing.
When was the last time somebody stopped you at the border and questioned you at length about what you were going to say once they let you in?
You don't find that scary at all, coming from Canada? We might expect this from, say, North Korea. But from Canada?
Run-of-the-mill normal, indeed.
and apologize for the way over the top stop!
I hate crossing the border...either way. But entering the USA (by car) has always been way easier than coming the other way. Although flying and going thru US customs in Cowberry is no hassle at all.
LOL!!
Yeah, run-of-the-mill normal. What don't you understand about that? You obviously don't cross the American/Canadian border very much.
I do. And most of the time they treat you like a criminal while they ask you a few questions and then let you on your way. A colleague of mine was detained for 2 hours while the Americans questioned her before letting her in. Why? Because she has an American boyfriend and they thought she was trying to sneak into the US to marry him so she could stay. So yeah, run-of-the-mill.
Thats just how they do things. Its never pleasant.
That it may be run-of-the-mill doesn't make it Fine-and-dandy, or even OK. There are people who are working to improve things, who'd like the information to get out that our Governments are working hard to make us feel powerless and weak; but "in the real world" we aren't. They're scared of us,and they should be.
Exactly.
Yeah. Bit ridiculous.
As a lifelong liveral, I have always questioned authority, not made excuses for it.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
I'm sure Amy wasn't worrying about the weather at the time ....
got some revenge for the defection of Lorne Green and the theft of the Expos.
"The deal has to be negotiated in the real world, not on some idealized Aristotelian plane. We understand that. A 100-percent deal may be impossible."
Famous "Reality Based" Commentator
!!!
After all, there are the Jets, Nordiques, and Brendan Fraser to atone for also.
;>)
(Roughly) to the tune of My Favorite Things:
"Rich Little, Kreskin and April Lavigne ...
Howie Mandel and that Screecher Celine ...
Will-i-am Shatner ('but, we like him these days
all those bad records were maybe a phase...?)
All us would gladly each pay a Tooney
just to get rid of that grease-stain Mulrooney
Alex Trebek is a bit of a hack,
.... but please wont anyone take Nickelback?... "
Keifer, Shania and little Paul Anka,
The other Paul (Shaeffer) is kind of a wanker
But we kept Alanis and Sum41 ...
Makes up for the bad movies Jim Carrey's done (sort of) ....
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Did you write that song? I sang the words to the melody and they fit beautifully.
Well done!
...I was at work at the time ... took almost 5 minutes ... ;)
Its weird hobby of mine ...
...Started playing when I was 8, so moral of the story:
'Mommas dont let yer babies grow up to be guitar players ...'
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Impressive!
anyone say that to me before ... ;)
Sorry too easy..?
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You bad boy, playing while you're at work ;)
"wow, only 5 minutes?"
was definitely a first for me ...
hyuk hyuk ...!
(no longer at work thankfully... :-)
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;)
What is ... ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcoX9hffWoA
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All I can say is, that music is divine.
Thank you!
Ms. C!
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real_earl!
. . . was what Celine Dion was.
So I can't defend what the border guards put these people through I can attest to the fact that as a Canadian I have been subjected to the same treatment as have acquaintances of mine when we travel to the US. I am not a journalist (just a regular guy) and have been asked to leave my car, sat for several hours, and once they even confiscated a friends car.
I was basically saying the same thing. I guess the point is that they are 10 times our population so how could they possibly know what happens outside their borders.
I have an easier time getting into Cuba than I do Vermont.
Come to think of it, it might be my visits to Cuba that make my visits to Vermont difficult.
I get stopped and questioned. Really stupid questions, like (as they flip through my passport) "So, have you ever been to Amsterdam?" Of course I have, you moron, you're looking right at the stamp!
asked so that they can observe your response and determine whether a secondary is advisable - every border service does that, especially over visa/entrance stamps of 'hot-button' countries - that being solely relative to the destination country, of course.
but their ploy was soooo obvious. I was insulted by their thinking they could trick me with such an obvious stunt.
They were obviously paranoid that an "activist" may come up from the U.S. and rabble-rouse about the olympics. I bet the government is getting some critism from some people in Canada that in an economic downturn they are spending all this money on the olympics. They are likely pretty sensitive to this. Not clear if the government actual put together a program to try and stop this or was just some border guards acting on their own. That would be concerning if it was a planned government action. I bet it was just some paranoid border guards. However, since when do border guards have the right to censor people. I guess they have banded people that are deemed to give hate speeches from entering the country in the past. However, it is a little paranoid to say this was hate speech in this case. Maybe these were very conservative anti-liberal border guards.
However, generally not like Canadians to be too paranoid about these things and try and surpress speech. However, different provinces have in the past had much more censorship regarding things like films than in other countries and the U.S., so there is an element of government control in Canada that may surprise some people. In Toronto the police once threatened to arrest Madonna for dancing provocatively on a bed during a "Like a Virgin" performance.
The border guards attitude was we don't want no dame American coming up to shit disturb on the Olympics. Pretty paranoid stuff.
is that by asking her about the Canadian olympics they started her looking in on it and doing a story on Democracy Now! with some of the Canadians who are protesting it.
The Gordo Gang could use a little exterior sunlight.
;>)
This clip was only half of the story. The full video at Democracy Now has a second part where Amy talks to some people in Canada who are protesting the Olympics. I agree with what they say, especially about how Chicago "dodged a bullet", I never thought it would be a good thing for Chicago (or any city) to get this.
step out of line
man coming coming to take you away
Fatherland security has taught their children well.
People are in a state of denial, fear of reprisal, compliance is the new resistance. Take off your shoes, show your papers, answer the questions - COMPLY
Land of the Free?
Home of the Brave?
"we are Fatherland Security and we are here to keep you Safe"
I'd be just as shocked as the rest of you, only I'm not.
The reason?
I'm Canadian and I've heard this story dozens of times only it applied to Canadians being harassed by US guards.
Vancouver is real touchy about the upcoming olympics because there is a huge movement against having the games in Vancouver. How can you spend millions of dollars on such nonsense when the streets are littered with homeless heroin addicts that get no help?
Anyways, this is a terrible thing but wake up!!!!! Your own guards have been doing this as far back as I can remember.
When I was a teenager and used to cross the border, one friend was always pulled from the car for questioning? Why? Well no reason, aside from the fact that his grand parents were born in the middle east. Every year...they pulled him out of the car and grilled him in a separate room. This is going back to the 80s folks so wake up and smell the coffee. Border guards are nuts.
1967 - Billboard # 7 = For What It's Worth by Buffalo Springfield
2009 - Billboard # 7 = Sexy Bitch by Akon
We will continue to lose our freedoms while the general population remains distracted by the bread and circus.
1967 - Billboard # 7 = For What It's Worth by Buffalo Springfield
This is in my portable MP3 player right now. along with some Jimi, and such. LOVE it!!!
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
We've come a long way, haven't we?
/snark
If a drone kills a child in Kandahar, do the crying parents make a sound?
One other thing, there are many Canadians, particularly out west, and particularly in law enforcement that are just as nutty as the worst of your wingnuts.
Goodman was not "detained" as in arrested, although this is implied. She could simply have refused to answer questions and returned to the US at any time. By suggesting that she was arrested she is doing a grave disservice to journalists who have been arrested, tortured or just disappeared.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
She was detained, in plain English.
Detain: delay progress: to hold back or delay somebody or something
Where does she say she was arrested???
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Where does Peter say she said she was arrested? He said it was implied.
You should have looked up the definition of implied while you were doing your definition of "detained" shtick.
sometimes you just never know what you are going to get...
And like RD said, law enforcement and border guards are pretty right wing on both sides.
As a dual citizen...I have enjoyed back and forth pees right on border markers in remote locations where only Grizzly Bears cross...
without intent of insult to either side :)
Of course, you realize that Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity and that sort of "journalistic" ilk would have been welcomed with open arms, probably escorted to their speaking engagement and told to stay as long as they like. The left is looked upon as enemies, terrorists, dangerous radicals that upset the apple cart (capitalism) and endanger the god given profits they so richly deserve.
Greed is good!
Greed is God!
Money, money, money!
Praise Gold from Whom all blessings flow!
All I can say is sickening.
This is probably the stupidest post of this thread. Congrats.
Being a Canadian, I must freely admit we do have plenty of assholes living up here. While they are not in the majority, there are Canadians who are blessed with stupidity and ignorance.
Most of these people work as garbage men. But as in the case with most assholes who have a control freak personality, some find there way into positions of authority. Our police forces are fairly good at keeping these low iq morons out of their employ, which then leaves these people only jobs as mall security and border agents.
As a Canadian I am outraged at the conduct of these total pricks. It bothers me greatly that these guys didn't have the moral and ethical backbone of most Canadians. As a Canadian I appoligize for their actions and hope they are soon on the unemployment line. But like I say, every nation has a collection of assholes, some shoot old men in the face, some become border gaurds.
As a resident of British Columbia I worry about the arrogance the government is showing. Many people are pissed off about how many billions of dollars are being spent on the Olympics, taxes are going up because of it and very few people see the point. I'm talking about average citizens here. I'm embarassed that Amy Goodman was harassed because it's such a non-issue outside of BC, but there is intense paranoia here.
Why? Because anarchists have threatened to disrupt the Games, and this has thrown the government into a frenzy. There were bombings done by anarchists in BC back in the 80's and that's making the guys in charge very nervous. First Nations people (Indians) are incensed that the Games are being held on their land. There are huge numbers of homeless people living on the streets of Vancouver (mainly because it's got the mildest climate in Canada) and the city plans to force them into shelters every night, basically to get them out of sight. Lots of poor people are losing cheap housing because of the inflow of tourists who will be renting hotel rooms. The complaints go on and on.
trying to cross a border into America must fell like, and everybody who flies.
As stupid as that incident was - and it was stupid - you sometimes get that treatment from American border guards when entering the US. I often have to go to the US for scientific meetings and conferences to present my work. Simple, right? I have been hammered with questions by the border guards, my computer searched, etc. And I have no prior criminal record. You figure it out.
There is abuse on both sides.
But I can say that the Canadian border guards were most likely overly sensitive to the activist groups out there that have sworn to disrupt the Games. They probably thought she was going to add fuel to the fire and stir up more discontent. Most of these activist groups don't like the fact so much money is being put into the Games and not social programs. That is most likely the reason for the intense spotlight on her when she went though. Not saying it's right. But there is a bigger picture here and it has nothing to do with the Canadian Government trying to keep down journalism. They didn't see her as a journalist but as a potentially disruptive activist. In which case, they have ever right to stop someone if they will disturb the peace and lead to criminal actions (riots etc).
In any case, it was a very sorry incident and it could have been handled differently.
I always held Canadians in high regard both their people and their government. No more Canadian fishing trips for me. I won’t be attending their Olympics or buying Canadian products either.
I will be writing my MP. We have our jerks up here too but we'll get to the bottom of it.
Please still come fishing Twostones. What we have is just too good not to share with others with progressive minds.
but unfortunately (for my country) he is this Rocket-Surgeon:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/20...
He would most likely need someone to read it to him ...
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Wow he's like the bottom of the barrel real_earl. I feel for you. In the Yukon we have Larry Bagnell, Liberal MP who you see in the streets all the time. He's pretty good. With our population of 33k in an area bigger than California we know everybody.
I still hold *most Americans in high regard. Americans are some of the friendliest, most generous and most hospitable people I've ever met.
The gubbermint is another story though!!!!!
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
You going to buy American then? I don't blame you, its not like America starts illegal wars, kills hundreds of thousands of innocents while giving big fat contracts to their buddies, detains and tortures anyone who is Muslim and has a beard. But even if they did, its not like they detained a lady for a couple hours and asked her questions. That would just be sickening. Imgaine, 90 minutes AND questions!
Are you upset that she was detained or that she wasn't waterboarded? Get some perspective.
,
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She was crossing the border and questioned. Border guards are not normally very friendly.
For all of you who are morally outraged, was she eventually let in? So where the hell is the conspiracy? Its not like they refused her entry, did they?
I think you need to question her journalistic integrity. She's going on and on about this, with no evidence. Her ego was bruised.
Seriously? You're detained for an hour or two - AND STILL ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTRY - and the free press is now in danger?????
I have no respect for Goodman anymore. What a joke.
Watch the video. That's not what she said at all.
Gotta love people that know they're right, but don't watch or listen to her point.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Gotta love people that vaguely criticize others.
"This is a threat to the free flow of information, and thats the people's loss" Thats what she said in the video, Edwin. So yeah, I'd say that is what she said Edwin.
But like I said above in another post. What is it you disagree with and why?
You don't really ever make a point on here, you just cheer on the prevailing point of view. How about some insight? How about a little critical thought? Try that rather than just "They didn't watch the video, so no one listen to them." And you hypocritically cry about censorship.
The BC customs agents have always had a terrible reputation for being difficult if not downright nasty. I lived in Vancouver in the mid-sixties and was well aware of the problem even then.
I do suspect that the dreadful treatment of Amy was due to the upcoming Olympics. Vancouver is being extremely paranoid about any criticism. They have passed a law basically banning free speech on signs on private property. It is really fascist in its intent and I could well imagine the powers-that-be being very nervous about this law being talked about on the international stage.
But then again, they could just be being assholes.
at the Airport have been known to have a pretty nasty way of welcoming
Polish speaking visitors as well ...
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Or a little of each.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
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