Ron Paul: 'Entitlements Are Not Rights'
Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul claimed on Sunday that Americans don't have a right to entitlements like Social Security and Medicare.
During a debate hosted by NBC, WHDH's Andy Hiller asked Paul: "In your opinion, what services are Americans entitled to expect to get from government?"
"Entitlements are not rights," Paul flatly stated. "Rights mean you have a right to your life, you have a right to your liberty, you should have a right to keep the fruits of your labor."
"Earlier on here, there was a little discussion about gay rights. I, in a way, don't like to use those terms: gay rights, women's rights, minority rights, religious rights. There's only one type of right: It's a right to your liberty."
He added: "No, they're not entitled. One group isn't entitled to take something from somebody else. And the basic problem here is, there's a lot of good intention to help poor people, but guess who gets the entitlements in Washington? The big guys, the rich people, they get the entitlements, the military-industrial complex, the banking system. Those are the entitlements we should be dealing with."
According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the definition of entitlement is "a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract."
is "a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract." So Ron Paul is for breaking contracts? Laws? Yay. We need another one of those. Just like the rest.
me-oww!
The Right has redefined so many words: Liberal, Entitlements, Mercenaries (no longer exist, now contractors), Socialism, etc.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
Authoritarian
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
Oyyy, what a maroon. I'm trying to gauge how he defines liberty. For some? Just not for all?
And this entitlement thing? When two parties agree on a contract, it then becomes a right to fulfill said contract.
and people actually think this guy would be good for this country? oyyy, teh stoopid, it burns.
Lol. if anyone thinks he'll stay out of committing US military personnel into action, I have a bridge to sell ya .
Just keep watching that disco ball spinning around. You won't notice a thing..
What is your conceptual, continuity?
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
"bugfucker"
ROFLMAO!
What a great word. Especially since I always thought Paul looked like a bug.
Still ROFLMAO!
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
Got that one from Harlan Ellison. He's a genius with the insults, that guy.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
He's batshit crazy on a large percentage of the issues but most progressive's I've heard who speak of him with kinder words tend to cite specific examples where he's pretty much dead on. Maybe it's not even for the right reasons, but in this kind of race the only option is to pick the smallest of evils.
It's a testament to how insane conventional wisdom in Washington has become that Ron Paul comes out looking like the sanest and most moderate candidate in the Republican Party.
What the hell are you yammering about?
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Hey moron, these people paid into Medicare and Social Security!!
Paul just dropped another notch from his tenuous post as a 'Thug with a (very) few good ideas. Sheesh...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
He's counting on the fact that so many people in this country as so abysmally ignorant of how the government works that it doesn't occur to them that you CAN'T GET SOCIAL SECURITY unless you've already paid into it. I have no doubt there are many who really believe that it gets handed out to anyone, regardless of whether they've contributed or not.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
for allowing these bastards to keep drumming the word entitlements into the political vocabulary. We're not helping ourself to anything, that money's OURS! It's these thugs that feel "entitled" to do what ever they want to do with OUR money.
Damn it to hell. Those are not American ideas anymore. We are a changed nation. We are partly socialist and I am proud of that. Your stupid rugged individualism bullshit is outdated crap. It is crap, get it idiot?
This is where Paul really starts to lose me. Parsing of the word "right" is pretty silly.
I like the way Ron Paul talks about the racist judicial system and war on drugs in this country. Not too many other politicians talk that way.
I wish we had a progressive candidate who stood up for the Bill of Rights, Constitution, Upheld their oath of office in regards to the Patriot Act, NDAA, SOPA, etc. and spoke out against the war on drugs and corrupt judicial system. Election integrity would also be an issue I'd like to hear about. Our candidates suck. Paul Wellstone was a champ.
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
I like the way Ron Paul talks about the racist judicial system and war on drugs in this country. Not too many other politicians talk that way.
Of course you do. That's exactly the reaction he's aiming for. He yammers endlessly about things anyone can agree on, and carefully avoids discussing all his OTHER insane ideas, except among those minions who are already brainwashed enough to believe them.
Don't fall prey to this lunatic. He's clever like a fox - a rabid one. Don't think for a minute he won't turn around and bite you as soon as he's got the upper hand.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
On this one and would add that he is the only one talking about things that really matter to a lot of people. I don't or can't think for a minute that he would ever be president, but I do appreciate the fact that he talks about things that no one in either party dares to talk about.Paul and OWS are gonna both have a huge impact on the upcoming election debate. I'm looking forward to that.
No, they are not rights, they are earned benefits.
like a bank account that the govt can dip into.
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Ah yes, the famous "liberty": the last place libertarians hide when reality starts to intrude. It includes wonderful "liberties" like:
- the "liberty" to have all the merchants in your town decide they don't like serving "your kind"
- the "liberty" to breathe polluted air unless you're rich enough to litigate about it
- the "liberty" to watch your house burn down while firefighters stand next to it, because you missed your fire department payment
etc etc etc.
Gee, maybe that's why we amended our constitution. The libertarian philosophy of the 18th and 19th centuries became unworkable.
Maybe Paul will catch up to that concept one day.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
Bloody likely, He's a real loony toon. His kind are just cheapskates, they want all the benefits of this country without having to pay into It, typical repug, spend and not pay, Vietnam, Iraq, Iraq and Afghanistan(wars). He'd take My benefits away and either expect Me to get a job(I'm 51 and disabled, not likely, 20-30yr olds can do what I know) or move in with My relatives(all republicans, not likely, most have no room and one who theoretically could house Me, won't, says She won't have a stranger under Her roof, I caught the flu from Her Youngest daughter, so I'd pass, besides My OA doesn't like 68F which is where they set their thermostat, I set Mine for about 76F, My OA starts hurting below 74F). So Grace(My cat) and I would be homeless and hungry under Ron Paul, I'd be surprised if He didn't despise people of Irish extraction, Racists used to say the Irish weren't White, My family came from France via Ireland 1690-1850. No I'd never vote for these clowns or should I say 7 dwarfs, but they will, the stimulus made between 1 million and 2.9 million jobs, better than Bush did, tax cuts, worthless, Repugs don't know how to create jobs as their laissez faire or let it be/alone when It comes to job creation, which is contrary to the founders original intent as mentioned Here.
"His kind are just cheapskates, they want all the benefits of this country without having to pay into It"
They want the benefit of public infrastructure and services but think their fair contribution toward it is zero. They are selfish parasites who need to go establish their "paradise" elsewhere.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
Perhaps we could all chip in and buy them an island somewhere. Then they can establish their "paradise" and set to work starving each other to death.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Somewhere nice and warm with sand, blue in blue water and palm trees... That island where the "Lord of the Flies" took place comes to mind.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
The new libertarian paradise.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
Give 'em some shithole island off the coast of Alaska, a bunch of gold mining equipment and a shitload of guns. Tell em mine their own currency and let 'em shoot each other for food.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Somalia is nice this time of year.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -- Robert E. Howard
;)
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Only if someone can say "Yes, they are rights, vote for me to make them rights"... then everyone would vote for that person.
But oddly enough no one runs on that... even the democrats.
Sadly Ron doesn't know how to define 'rights'. You don't use the word you're defining. I guess these are republicans gang signs, because it sounds like jibberish to me.
because it sounds like jibberish to me.
An excellent description of all libertarianism, in my view. The ramblings of selfish three-year-olds shrieking about people taking their toys away.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
CREATIONIST!)
Ed-words
Maybe an Intelligent Design guy?
Just because he's canny enough not to talk about it in public doesn't mean he can't actually believe that horseshit.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
I think the Pauls believe "make believe" is real. Rand Paul probably thinks his make believe doctorate is real.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
They're the same damn poop sandwich, re wrapped.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -- Robert E. Howard
Ron is a strict constructionist and I admire that, but it's not 1788. There's no more free land to grab and we have over 300M people. If you want to compete internationally in the 21st century, you need a degree of socialism.
Ron needs to understand we had this thing called the Industrial Revolution which turned the 18th century agrarian society on its head.
No, we originally had no constitutional right to tax other Americans' income, but we'd be screwed without it. The constitution was meant to be amended and we have done so.
Lastly, I paid into SS and Medicare and I want it back.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
I understand that people on this site detest Republican policies. I get that. But the uninformed venom is unnecessary.
Anyway, you're right -- there is no constitutional "right" to social security or Medicare, expect as to your ability to receive those benefits per the rules once those programs have been established. If Medicare and SS were core "rights" as Constitionally understood, there could, for example, be no means testing.
I, too, disagree with Paul on his social policy. He and others like him woke up, looked around at the incredible infrastructure realized by preceding generations and decided, "well, that's it -- no more taking money." But even then he's wrong -- he states that "[r]ights mean you have a right to your life, you have a right to your liberty, you should have a right to keep the fruits of your labor." But those "rights" are not absolute even under the Constitution, as they can be taken away so long as due process is rendered. That's what he doesn't get -- rights are NOT absolute.
This nasty little racist cocksuck@r only looks good because the other Confederate candidates are so fucked up God awful.
And another preemptive FUCK YOU to you Paul loving LaRouche psychopaths.
It's beyond me how anyone calling themselves liberal could even contemplate supporting this raving bugfucker.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
LaRouche psychopaths............
No shit. The day before Christmas eve, I took the kids to Frankenmuth MI - where Bavarian Heritage and food are the rage. Beautiful place.
Three morons from the LaRouche society had a poster of Obama with a Hitler mustache were on the sidewalk blocking pedestrians as they tried to take in the holiday ambiance. Anyhow, these dimbulbs were warning the Christmas shoppers that WWIII was just around the corner. They were taking signatures to have Obama impeached!
No shit. They were so fucking stupid, they didn't even know that only congress could impeach, and they had to have legal reasons to do so.
These idiots were being laughed at by people, yet they were clueless. Hell, one of them was even a Herman Cain impersonator.
One lady said to her husband "look at the morons." Another woman yelled "hey look at me, I'm an idiot" as she walked by.
As I came back there was a large family of toothless fat ass goobers all wearing flannel shirts/coats, with all the redneck stereotypical wear and adornments chatting away with the LaRouche lunatics. I told my kids "look, that is what an idiot convention looks like."
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
Obviously time has not exactly changed their cult like extremism and bizarre behavior.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
We're supposed to al be in this together. It's not "I got mine, you get yours" you STUPID Libertarian fuckwad.
I have worked since I was 15 and have had social Security and Medicare taken out of my wages. When I am 65 I except to collected what I have spend 50 years paying for. Nobody is giving me anything. I paid for it. When I was making $1.75/hr they were taking money out. Who are the idiots falling for this stupid argument about entitlement. Don't they look at their paycheck.
We've all paid into this system, therefore the money in it belongs to us. Loony Paul doesn't like it, but that's the way it is. Let him slam his insane head against that wall all he likes. He'll NEVER get elected so long as he advocates STEALING FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
He's never said cancel social security for those who paid into it. He wants an opt-out for young people. The question was about "services" which of course has a particular connotation for the republican candidates.
...to see you chiming in from Oz to defend Paul as he schemes- like a typical Republican- to get rid of OUR social safety-net.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
G'Day
There was no defense of Paul's desire to roll back the 20th Century. Paul has zero chance of getting elected - but he makes for a convenient boogyman to distract from our really elected president who really wants to "burn the village in order to save it" when it comes to our safety net. But who wants to talk about Obama's Catfood Commission or LHEAP cuts when there's a Libertarian Loon like Paul to point fingers at?
Excuse me, but no matter when you put Paul's ideas into effect, you're going to be stealing from SOMEONE. Under his idiot son's plan, they'd be stealing from ME, since I fall just outside of their timetable, despite the fact that I've paid into Social Security for THIRTY YEARS now.
Don't try to defend this loony's ideas to me. I've heard it all from these libertarian fuckwits. They're rich greedy parasites who want everything for themselves but don't want to pay for it, and are trying to get it by convincing the very people who'll be most skewered. Ever notice how there are no POOR libertarians? That's because the POOR are the people whose necks they'll stomp on to get whatever they want.
No, thank you.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Trojan Horse for Social Security privatization--just more selfish libertarian/GOP nonsense. Good luck taking your chances with the thieves of Wall Street and their exemplary record of "success". With friends like them you don't need enemies like big gubmint.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
You should actually look at Paul's positions. He's certainly no friend of the Wall St casino.
...And yet...
It's the antithesis of his deregulatory beliefs to do anything about them.
Among other things, he's against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. And what do you propose to do with your SS money, stuff it in a mattress?
Maybe it's you that needs to take a harder look at this fraud-- not us.
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-22/opinion/fr...
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
For everyone but himself. The man is a racist and screaming hypocrite. BY all means, Paul, trot your ass to Somalia and create your Libertarian Utopia.
I'll be happy to apologize if you prove me wrong.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -- Robert E. Howard
Even if he says "There's no more 'too big to fail' because I refuse to bail out anyone. They will simply fail."
That would absolutely NUKE the economy, should they fail again. The FDIC would have to pay out the ass to refund everyone's investments, putting the US into an unimaginatively deep debt, and the only people who come out winners are the people who got rich doing their latest banking heist.
What a sane person wants, and.. Obama's unfortunately not in this camp.. is when a bank fails, you bail them out, set up huge regulations preventing such an act from happening again, and perhaps nationalize them until such a point is reached when they can responsibly and safely be run by private companies again.
This is what any other country in the world would do.
Paul peddles his economic Darwinism voodoo to the rubes and dupes without telling them what the catastrophic results of his simplistic trash is. He is a dangerous fool that needs to be removed from public service---permanently.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
I could send you a family photo of my in-laws.
I have one brother in law that is beyond stupid. He would eat dog shit and swear it was prime rib if the GOP said so.
Even when you go to the computer and pull up facts and data that prove the GOP are fucking liars and thieves and screw him continually, he just sits there with a look on his face like he shit his pants and hopes nobody notices.
Twenty minutes later, he is babbling the same talking point again.
I cannot stand to even be around him anymore. a complete moron, and a gold medal chump for the 1%.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
I understand , I feel your pain , have the lunatics in my tribe too . Hopeless cases , I have flat out disowned them ... and after what I had to say to them I am sure they have also disowned me .No loss .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
They're Idiots , just as you said . What kills me is that 3/4 or more of the dumb fucks are going to need SS and they will be counting on it and relying on it to survive .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
That's right Ron Paul, you deluded kook. That means you keep your greedy, filthy ass hands off my Social Security and Medicare which I paid into my entire working life. I do expect to benefit from these programs despite your nefarious intentions to destroy what people of good will build. And it also means that we also have a concept of collective sharing in this country for the common good. Ever drive down a public highway, attend a public university, or go to a public library? They you experience Socialism pal--which your selfish, crack addled libertarian system would destroy in favor of anarchy and chaos where everyone is "on their own."
So keep your crazed John Wayne "libertarian" bullshit nonsense to yourself or better yet, go establish your parasitic "utopia" in someone's else's country.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
Your income is an entitlement dear libertarian politician.
Social Security is partially funded by the fruits of my labor and is therefore not an entitlement. It's mine and I expect to see a return on my investment.
Federal funding of "The big guys, the rich people, ..., the military-industrial complex, the banking system" Those are not entitlements. Those are subsidies and are examples of pork barrel spending and how a corrupt government does business.
My tantamount right as an American Citizen is the pursuit of my happiness. I won't be happy until the air I breath and the water I drink is clean. Neener, neener, neener.
Please step aside and allow us to form a more perfect union without your sorry ass.
that 'they' paid into it (SS/Medicare) so they are 'entitled' to it....
WE paid into it, but we're nothings, so we shouldn't be getting it...because if 'we' get it (even though we DID pay into it)....it's THEIRS...
because THEY are entitled...
or some such crap.....
at least that's how it's presented to me from said relative.....
Rights = permission granted to you by another
Entitled = permission granted to you by you
One has nothing to do with the other. The question was non-sensical. That will happen when you pretend that health care = permission granted by another.
more idiocy on the board...I see you are going with the republic party redefinition of 'entitlement,' not the real one. Words do have actual meanings--agreed upon meanings. You can SAY it's something else, but it doesn't make it so.
me-oww!
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'
-- Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
You can scream "I'm entitled" all you want. Regardless of merriam webster, if those who you claim to owe you something decide to ignore you, it doesn't mean squat.
Personally, I kinda wonder how sincere all this "selective" outrage above strategically directed against Ron Paul is nothing more than "Obamabots" trying to misdirect attention away from their guy for the multiple knives he has sank into the backs of the "looney left"?
Sure, Ron Paul's domestic policies stink; and they will probably cause thousands to die in this country. Obama's foreign policy also stinks; difference is "millions" will be forced to "give up the ghost under 4 more years of this Colonial president.
How sincere you ask? VERY sincere, mister. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? Ron Paul is a selfish parasite that has no business in public service. And your conspiratorial theory about "Obamabots" is absurd. Nice try to change the subject, but it ain't working.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
Again- this is NOT a zero sum game. People don't forget everything about Obama if they hear criticism of another candidate. And we ARE allowed to criticize other candidates without being accused of "deflection" or "misdirection."
I personally think more than "thousands" will be effected. Iceland somewhat recently went on a spree of mass deregulation and privatization.. exactly the kind of policies that Paul endorses. What occurred was a collapse of colossal magnitude, causing environmental devastation, the massive loss of jobs and investments, and economic ruin.
Iceland is a country of 330,000 with a relatively tiny GDP. Imagine that in our country, where the banks are a hundred times more massive, our financial market infinitely bigger, and corporations unmatched in any other country.
"What occurred was a collapse of colossal magnitude, causing environmental devastation, the massive loss of jobs and investments, and economic ruin."...."Iceland is a country of 330,000 with a relatively tiny GDP. Imagine that in our country, where the banks are a hundred times more massive, our financial market infinitely bigger, and corporations unmatched in any other country."
One does not have to imagine it, one only has to look around.
The first casualty of republicanism is the truth.
Party politics are not only undemocratic, they are antidemocratic.
Yes, but I'm still on the side of wanting to fix that problem, and I pretty much know for a fact Obama won't, but... I'm certainly not on the Ron Paul side of "government was the problem to begin with." As most Paul supporters argue with me. I'd have to be stupid, and believe it was a massive coincidence that a collapse followed the repeal of Glass-Steigel.
Government was only the problem in the sense that the government wanted less government.
But sadly, I agree with you, we're either already there, or the threat looms over, ready to collapse at any second.
The looney left?
The people who believe in using critical thinking to solve problems.
The people who opposed all of the catastrophic conservative policies that turned America into a 3rd world corporate fascist oligarch shit hole.
The people who said Bush and Cheney were war mongering lying chickenshit chickenhawks.
The only looney's, are the dumb fuck right wing idiots like you, who still haven't figured out it's the GOP holding that giant sharp pole up their ass.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
Try reading the posts on this site you stupid fuck .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
At the expense of calling you the unkind expletives my peers have spat you with, let me inform you my Dear vector56 that you are suffering from last-stage terminal H.I.V R.P.C.S.S, or Hyperventilating Idiot Voter's Ron Paul Cock Sucker's Syndrome! Its actually quite rare and only infects a fringe demographic of the population (i.e. +/- 9% of registered Republicans at best); typically teen-to-middle age white Caucasians that are upper-middle to esoterically wealthy class and have no sense of observation or critical self-analysis whatsoever. They also have a serious beef with minorities and dissidents of all stripes, rational governing of any sort and any entitlements that is not already their own de facto, lifetime privilege by simple virtue of their melanin shade and wallet capacity!
While there is (sadly) no cure or treatment for your condition there is a consensus among the still thinking people of the planet that isolation of such individuals on a deserted private island or padded cell room for life works wonders for the collective peace of mind. Other than submitting a vote for someone who would only hold the office of U.S. president if first hell froze over and Lady GaGa joined the Westboro Baptist clan on their cross-country 'Left Behind' (*ahem*...under the influence of meth...*ahem*) crusades, there is JUST that as a last resort: Suicide Quantity Ingestion!...of speed, disco shrooms, crack, pot and every other hallucinogen, controlled substance and intoxicating agent know to Medicine and Law SIMULTANEOUSLY! It actually works out best for you and your poor handlers the last way, since that's exactly how Libertarianism and its straight-faced talking heads came to be in the first place (your next life re-incarnation will be a by-product of the infinite self-obsession and cognitive contradiction inherent to the brainless parasites of homo sapien variety adhering to this inherently reactionary and wholly redundant political style)!
President Obama is like the AHCA his administration miraculously passed: marginally helpful, efficient enough to be built upon, and will only become a uniform disaster if Republicans win 2012 & repeal it (with all the other good he did)!
Except he's not arguing for Ron Paul, so you just proved his point that this pearl-clutching over Paul is nothing more than a diversionary tactic designed to suck the air out of the room.
Shorter Vector:
"Screw America, Save Iran, Vote Ron Paul".
That's some class-leading stupid right there.
There's only one type of right: It's a right to your liberty.
Says who?
This guy clearly doesn't understand anything about rights or the social contract. People have the rights that are agreed upon by the society they inhabit. If it's agreed by the citizens of America that we have a right to help from the government, and that agreement is codified into law, then we have that right. If it's agreed upon that we have the right to privacy, and that agreement is codified into law, then we have that right. Loony Paul doesn't get to decide what rights we have or don't have - unless he manages to get himself crowned king, which is what he clearly wants.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
SOCIAL CONTRACT
http://theanarchistalternative.info/soccon.htm
Wait, what? Are you going to go after the entitlements that only effect the rich,corporations, and military? I'm all on board for that.
I'm gonna go out on a limb though, and say you're lumping that together with entitlements that ACTUALLY help the poor and middle class, and just get rid of them all.
No his thought is that all these tax exempts, loopholes, subsidies, bailouts, inflation, that go to the rich are responsible for keeping the poor poor, such that there is now a permanent underclass on welfare that depends somewhat on this corrupt arrangement in order to survive.
I can't believe I was put into a position where I'm defending the tax exemptions, loopholes, and subsides, but even liberals don't argue that these are keeping the poor in a permanent state of welfare. Inflation is another matter, but for the rest of these... How? Why?
We just don't want our tax dollars wasted on the rich. I see no reason, however, why the deletion of these (again- very wasteful) programs would empower or enrich the poor and middle class.
I mean, it'd be different if you said "he wants to get rid of all these programs, because that money is better spent helping the infrastructure of the poor and middle class, and helping them to have the same opportunities."
Which is what any progressive believes.
But that's not what Ron Paul's about at all. He thinks any government is too much, and it should be a free-for-all of private market and free-market competition.
I wish he would advocate building infrastructure, and there are many positions of Paul's I don't agree with. You mentioned deregulation - yes he is in favor of it, but it has to begin with the federal reserve system since it has too much influence on the money supply. This is where the real problem is. There is no simple solution either. He'll need A LOT of support to change the way business is done. For this reason alone it's doubtful he'll be the nominee.
Paul is injecting real principles into the national debate, and that can only be a good thing. The global economy is in real danger of collapse this year, which may trigger more wars. Ron Paul adds some sanity for our times.
Again, most of that I agree with. I want the federal reserve heavily regulated, and I might even get behind putting creation of money directly into the government and skip that unnecessary middleman.
And that's all lovely.
But I still don't see how any of this, save inflation, will empower the lower or middle class. Most companies receiving such benefits such as tax loopholes and subsides simply see this as "extra" money, anyways. We already know corporations are sitting on trillions of dollars, not spending it on workers.
If you take away all entitlements, corporations lose their extra money they likely didn't need. Poor people and middle-class lose some of their livelihood, and might not be able to even afford to go to college or buy a car, or... hell, even food.
This is a simplistic doomsday exaggeration, there is no doubt that there are troublesome issues yet to be dealt with but they are nowhere as catastrophic as you say.
And it is equally as simplistic to assume the Fed is our sole economic bogeyman, it is more complex than that. I agree with Dradeeus that more regulation or restructure of the Fed may be in our interest, but the real bogeyman in my estimation is our government's deference to corporate and moneyed interests who arrogantly believe in their entitlement mentality over the broader public interest and use the government's resources to further their nefarious goals. Our government has been corrupted from an instrument of public service into a hog trough where the privileged gorge themselves at the expense of society.
And going back to the gold standard as Paul proposes would not be "sanity"--it would be an act of madness. Paul needs to refresh his memory on the economy of the 1930"s and understand there were sound reasons to ditch this standard.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
Interesting how he never talks about those entitlements, isn't it? Rich people can keep all the government handouts they can get, while those who actually work for a living can go fuck themselves.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Corporate welfare and welfare for the wealthiest , somehow that's not a problem , it's taboo for them to mention it or even acknowledge that it exists . Paul is just as full of shit as the rest of them .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
That's why the Establishment Republican Party hates him even more than Obama supporters do. Because Ron Paul would threaten the corporate welfare that massive industries rely on, from banks to military contractors to Big Ag.
Which is why Ron Paul is no real danger - because he has at least one position that's anathema to the vast majority of voters, liberal or conservative - and why this recent Obot obsession with him all the more obvious as the diversion it is.
Ron Paul wants to go back to a "survival of the fittest" society where people are not entitled to health care or anything else. I have news for him, his skinny bigoted ass would not survive very damn long. People like Paul and most of these other repubs had their time in sun, it was called the "Dark Ages".
If not now, when?
Going "back" to a "survival of the fittest" world might actually make sense - if these idiots had the SLIGHTEST idea what "survival of the fittest" actually means. It certainly does NOT mean "survival of the asshole with the biggest club to beat everyone else down with".
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Do not think it's an accident he named his son Rand, they both view those portions of the constitution,(they find convenient), through Randian monocles. All many, including some progressives, hear is the constant echo, Constitution......constitution......constitution.
The first casualty of republicanism is the truth.
Party politics are not only undemocratic, they are antidemocratic.
Glad I stayed out of this thread.
far left loon >.<
Please delete this OT spammer.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
?
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
No matter how much it ruffles the lefts feathers. Some people truly need to be taken care of, but a whole lot more just think they should be taken care of instead of being responsible for their own fortunes.
I'm so glad I don't have that mentality.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
no matter how much he tries to stick it to the 'Left and Right' by taking the high unicorn horse of 'infinite personal liberty and freedom.' It's funny, I'm a budding pro-cartoonist and writer but I've never let the whole Peter Pan/Neverland mentality seriously go to the head, but Libertarians by philosophy do just that!; this s**t from you guys is scarier than anything Michael Jackson said or did in a televised interview the last years of his life, God rest his soul. I actually WANT to apologize for characterizing this dipstick nonsense you call a political belief as a total laughing stock! But I dis-Stress, it will remain an unfulfilled one...
Some people truly need to be taken care of indeed, as in, locked in a padded room for life or at the very least, be permanently parted with any sum of money, car keys, or sharp objects (i.e. ALL libertarians and the super majority of Republicans). A whole lot more (moderates, centrists, but MOSTLY liberals) people in the U.S., and democracies worldwide for that matter, agree in some balance of self-government & equality where we get SOCIAL SECURITY and MEDICARE that we invested and PAID for, as well as guaranteed health care insurance, superior public education and transport for everyone by legislating much higher progressive and income taxes! Remember, we're the last nation of the free world where privatization and this 100% laissez-faire free-market B.S. from the Right has an absolute stranglehold on all these notions. Is anyone noticing how our politicians and elected leaders on both sides of the aisle talk non-stop about how much our schools, economy and government entities suck yet all they and we desire as a whole is to amputate them instead of actually putting some damn effort, fiscal investment into them for the COLLECTIVE and PERSONAL good (and not even necessarily in that order, Mr. Vegas Rage)?
I'm gushing with gayness (no pun intended) about not having that mentality, either, Mr. VG!; Retardation supposedly isn't a virus, religion or ideology but you Right-Wingers have given it all the traits of them and made it the hottest commodity since the last Twilight crap-tacular, have you red-state guys & gals not? Feel free to join the rest of us thinking 'elitists' back in this sad space called the Real World after your through getting off peeping into your Ayn Rand Wanderland Looking-Glass! We'll be here trying to make sense of this mess at least until that certain Mayan calendar date come December '12 (a blessing in satan's wardrobe, perhaps?)....
President Obama is like the AHCA his administration miraculously passed: marginally helpful, efficient enough to be built upon, and will only become a uniform disaster if Republicans win 2012 & repeal it (with all the other good he did)!
Fast forward 5 years and you'll going to see just how right he is. It matters not who wins the election, what programs are put in place to save the economy. The left is in for hardest economic lesson in history inside the next 5 years because there is nothing you or Obama can do to unavoidable default on our obligations be it outright default or default by printing press. You'll soon discover there are no guarantees in this world, tomorrow is promised to no one.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
It was avoidable but enough people continued(and continue) to vote for corrupt conservative and libertarian assholes in both political parties who scream about how the government doesn't work and then set out to prove it. If only we had a true left in this country as the majority of them march lockstep behind a president who's to the right of Ronald Reagan.
In other words, Norquist's "drown it in a bathtub" strategy. First you bankrupt it by slashing taxes on the rich, then you cut it. Nevermind that we could force bankers to give back billions, bring top marginal tax rates back to Eisenhower levels (91%) and slash a trillion dollars off our $1.2 trillion in annual war spending.
You libbies (i.e. libertarians) have quite the hysterical, meaning both unabashedly mad and breathlessly funny,formula of how the world and government should work: give everyone, everywhere unmitigated freedom which is really thinly-veiled anarchy, and presto!: Because their is no such thing as error, fault, moral relativity, or hell let's just say it, REALITY in the minds of libertarians, the great dilemmas and problems of our daily existence will self-correct themselves. Best of all, its all done by sitting back on your lazy a**es, blaming endlessly everything that can be tagged government, and being the most self-centered, parasitic human sloths that have no intention of utilizing the otherwise incredible mind and problem-solving skills our all-American, Judeo-Christain Jesus installed in all of us somewhere!
I used to think it was total the Republicans & Teabaggers who were the de facto parties of HELL NO and armageddon obstructionism, but you libbies really take it to another level of dumbasses' reactionary redundancy, huh? Outside of relative concern for civil liberties and a live-and-let-live approach to lifestyle & choices, you douches have as much in common with liberalism as E.T. did to his temporary human handlers. Is anything an actual concrete plan of action or intervention with you guys, or is outright 'end the fed' anarchistic chanting for every concern?Fortunately, this closet Neo-Nazi fart will likely be biting the big one in that 5 year period since tomorrow is apparently not promised to those of us who'd rather be a motionless and pointless speck of existence. Thank God for the income tax and national debt amendment clauses of our Constitution, the people's last great hope and Obama's ultimate redemption should we be shoved on to the edge of the unthinkable by the Congress-level Reich-Wingers again. Otherwise you actually made a pretty good case for wanting to contract Ayn Randian dementia, 'cuz hell, we all gotta' die eventually anyways, right?!
President Obama is like the AHCA his administration miraculously passed: marginally helpful, efficient enough to be built upon, and will only become a uniform disaster if Republicans win 2012 & repeal it (with all the other good he did)!
Yes they are. My dictionary/thesaurus tells me so.
Entitlement |enˈtītlmənt|
noun
the fact of having a right to something : full entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered | you should be fully aware of your legal entitlements.
• the amount to which a person has a right : annual leave entitlement.
entitlement
noun
their entitlement to benefits right, prerogative, claim; permission, dispensation, privilege.
entitlement program
noun
a government program that guarantees certain benefits to a particular group or segment of the population.
...your social security money.
He wants to make it optional so that people aren't forced to participate in a ponzi scheme.
opt out opt out!!!!
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Someone above just referred to me as a "stupid fuck", and not a word from the moderator? I once regrettably called the crowd "retards" and had the moderator's foot up my rear end in about 2 seconds. Kinda makes one wonder if taking unpopular positions earns one "special treatment here?"
"The looney left?
The people who believe in using critical thinking to solve problems.
The people who opposed all of the catastrophic conservative policies that turned America into a 3rd world corporate fascist oligarch shit hole.
The people who said Bush and Cheney were war mongering lying chickenshit chickenhawks.
The only looney's, are the dumb fuck right wing idiots like you, who still haven't figured out it's the GOP holding that giant sharp pole up their ass."
While I agree with everything said above, the writer seems to be unaware that the term "looney left" in the context I was referring to was used many times by the Obama people during the Health Care debates. As you recall we (the left) were unreasonable for wanting Single payer, a Public Option, or even Federal Exchanges as apposed to State.
Lastly, I find it telling how casually most here would trade away the lives of millions of men women and countless children in the Middle East to assure themselves a place under the table of the rich here (I hear the scraps are pretty good).
Spare us the smarmy pontificating about how selfish we are being by not voting for that savior of the middle eastern people, Ron Paul. Perhaps you're so secure in life that you don't fear your children living in an abandoned car because of INSANE Ron Paul policies, but the rest of us have to consider that very real possibility. I'm sure there are plenty of parents here who would be willing to let their children die from lack of health care (Health care isn't one or Ron Paul's "rights"), because they can comfort themselves in the knowledge that "at least Ron Paul brought the drones home."
Obviously, he expresses the (correct) fact that the laws can be changed, that entitlements based on laws are not protected by the constitution against change of that law.
It's quite pointless, though. The POTUS does not have legislative authority beyond signing or rejecting to sign bills into law. He's the leader of the federal executive branch.
All those grand ideas about reforms, tax and social reforms and others, are nonsense campaigning for POTUS candidates. Just look at the health care reform. It was a legislative fight and pretty much all Obama was able to do was to sign the bill when the legislative fight was over.
Candidates who want to emphasize the role of the constitution should focus on actual presidential tasks in their campaign, not imply that they could do Congress' job once in office.
* foreign policy
* work for an effective and cost-efficient federal executive branch (appoint competent individuals)
* appoint competent federal judges
* block unconstitutional or otherwise horrible laws if possible
* cut back excess assumption of executive powers
and not much more.
As I said before about Paul's anti-drug war position, it's a whole bunch of bluster for nothing. Great that he supports such a position, but immaterial as it isn't anywhere close to what's going on in Congress.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
You have to start somewhere. And when it comes to the War on Drugs, the president can do a lot all on his own. Like ordering the FDA to look at the science of marijuana and thus get it declassified as a Schedule 1 drug. Like going by his earlier promises and have the DOJ back off state-based medical marijuana. Like issuing pardons/commuting sentences for those convicted on federal statutes. Like challenging anyone to explain why alcohol is legal yet marijuana is not.
"He wants to make it optional so that people aren't forced to participate in a ponzi scheme.
opt out opt out!!!!"
Agreed, but Obama's so-called "Pay Roll Tax Holiday" is nothing more than a backdoor way to defund social security. Remember Obama telling us along with the Republican that social security was in trouble and appointing the Alan (cat food) Simpson to look into the matter? Hell, a few in Obama's administration even floated the idea of raising the retirement age. They all so did not allow a COLA adjustment. That being said, why the hell would they cut funding to social security for 2 years???
And Please, don't give me this crap about how they are going to make up the difference! Their plan is the same as the Republican plan has been for 30 years; cut the funding; turn it into a true "entitlement" and drown it in the bathtub!"
Lastly, I am obviously not a Libertarian, as consider myself to the left of most here. I care as much about the faceless, nameless people murdered by drone as I do for those here who die withot health care.
You're essentially saying that Obama wants to eliminate S.S., so he's no better than Ron Paul?
Uh, bullshit.
And if you cared about people around the world dying because of American policies, then what about the millions who will die from the climate change that Ron Paul denies the existance of? Ron Paul might "bring the drones home" on day 1 of his administration, and then spend the next 4 years helping destroy the world. I know that it's an argument chock-full of holes, but then again, if you can spout half-baked hyperbole, why not I?
You're essentially attacking him for something he didn't say?
Uh, bullshit.
"It's quite pointless, though. The POTUS does not have legislative authority beyond signing or rejecting to sign bills into law. He's the leader of the federal executive branch."
Sometimes I get the feeling that some here would pull just about any argument out of their rear ends to protect and cover Obama's ass. LBJ and FDR used the "bully pulpit" to "kick ass and take names" pushing through legislation far more radical than Obama's milk toast health care program. The man (Obama) did not fight for single payer, a public options, or Federal exchanges! Strangely enough he did call Dennis John Kucinich aboard Air force one to twist his arm for holding out for a public option.
So, to the above statement I say, "Bull Shit!" President have and can shape what happens in the congress.
"And if you cared about people around the world dying because of American policies, then what about the millions who will die from the climate change that Ron Paul denies the existence of? Ron Paul might "bring the drones home" on day 1 of his administration, and then spend the next 4 years helping destroy the world."
Do you think for a second that Obama has not already given a "wink and a nod" to the Canadian pipeline company to start up the "second" he is reelected? Once that "tar-sands" crap is released into the biosphere, all bets are off! And based on Obama's track record he will double-cross the environmental community; "tree-hungers" (as he surely refers to them off camera) before you can say "retroactive immunity for the telecoms!"
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