Obama fires back at Cheney on 60 Minutes
By David Sunday Mar 22, 2009 6:00pm
President Barack Obama told CBS' Steve Kroft that he "fundamentally disagreed" with former Vice President Dick Cheney's assertion that the new terrorism policies were putting the country at risk.
OBAMA: I fundamentally disagree with Dick Cheney. Not surprisingly. You know, I think that Vice President Cheney has been at the head of a movement whose notion is somehow that we can't reconcile our core values, our constitution, our belief that we don't torture, with our national security interests. I think he's drawing the wrong lesson from history. The facts don't bear him out. I think he is... that attitude, that philosophy has done incredible damage to our image and position in the world. I mean, the fact of the matter is, after all these years, how many convictions actually came out of Guantanamo? How many... how many terrorists have actually been brought to justice under the philosophy that is being promoted by Vice President Cheney? It hasn't made us safer. What it has been is a great advertisement for anti-American sentiment, which means that there is constant effective recruitment of Arab fighters and Muslim fighters against U.S. interests all around the world.
KROFT: Some of it being organized by a few people who were released from Guantanamo.
OBAMA: Well, there is no doubt that we have not done a particularly effective job in sorting rough who are truly dangerous individuals that we've got to make sure are not a threat to us, who are folks that we just swept up. The whole premise of Guantanamo promoted by Vice President Cheney was that, somehow, the American system of justice was not up to the task of dealing with these terrorists. I fundamentally disagree with that. Now, do these folks deserve miranda rights? Do they deserve to be treated like a shoplifter down the block? Of course not.
KROFT: What do you do with those people?
OBAMA: Well, I think we're going to have to figure out a mechanism to make sure that they are not released and do us harm, but do so in a way that is consistent with both our traditions, sense of due process, international law. But this... this is the legacy that's been left behind and, you know, i'm surprised that the vice president is eager to defend a legacy that was unsustainable. Let's assume that we didn't change these practices. How... how long are we going to go? Are we going to just keep on going until, you know, the entire Muslim world and Arab world despises us? Do we think that's really going to make us safer? I... I don't know a lot of thoughtful thinkers, liberal or conservative, who think that was the right approach.
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I'm glad to see Obama is not soft peddling the fundamental differences in his and Cheney's philosophies and actions concerning Guantanamo and the rule of law. He was a bit evasive about what he would do differently, but, at this point, I'm willing to cut him some slack.
Apparently, the poor record keeping and the violations of American and international law, have left Obama without many good options for the prisoners at Guantanamo. The Bush administration's incompetence and malfeasance has made trying and, where the evidence supports it, convicting the prisoners very difficult. Obama probably doesn't want to say much specific at this point because it's probably not very clear yet how to proceed given the mess he inherited (like with so many other aspects of the Bush Administration).
KROFT: Some of it being organized by a few people who were released from Guantanamo.
OBAMA: Well, there is no doubt that we have not done a particularly effective job ...
WRONG.
the correct answer is 'THEY have not done...'
he missed a perfect chance to point out just WHO released those guys from quantanamo...
but, other wise, a great interview...
My god it's good to have an intelligent President again.
time I hear Obama speak I'm grateful that we finally have an intelligent, articulate president. I no longer cringe, curse at the TV, and change the channel like when the sadistic moron bush was president. Thank you, sir.
entire interview was great. C&L should post the whole thing. My favorite part was where he talked about his work schedule. He has more meetings with his security and economic councils between 7am and 10am than Bush had in the whole first nine months of his administration! It's painful to think about how little work Bush and Cheney actually did, and how they apparently thought the presidency/ vice presidency were PART TIME JOBS. (Not to mention the fact that the country almost got McCain, who would probably have made Bush and Reagan look like workaholics.)
Ya Sure You Betcha.
Well, that that would be the sequel to the already bad horror movie. I can imagine President Palin governing from her house in Wasilla and paying herself a 1 million dollar a day per diem rate for renting her own house to herself while she's away from Washington. And that would be the LEAST of our problems.
What else could one do but cringe, then curse at the TV screen everytime that bozo made an appearance? He was...and still is, actually, a national embarrassment of epic proportions.
How many times during those 8 nightmare years did I hang my head in despair, struck dumb by the realization that this idiotic moron was really & truly the President of the United States...the leader of the Free World...Commander-in-Chief of the greatest military power this world has ever known?!!!
We have a whole lot of seriously fucked up decisions and trashed credibility to atone for....
watchdog...........what he said.
Mr. President, you need more sleep... and more water...
please, take better care of yourSELF!
and get the hell out of Cuba. Give them back their land!
Yes, there is no reason for continued sanctions against cuba. After all, aren't we doing the same thing now in Europe with our aggressive missile systems?
The dirty little secret that nobody in Washington will talk about is that the fastest way to convert Cuba into a capitalist paradise, and Iran into a secular democracy is to normalize relations with them, and allow unlimited travel within those countries. As we've seen time and time again, silly, obstinate sanctions only have the effect of reinforcing the party we're trying to depose.
and let me get a cuban cigar. yay:)
I'm sure we could get old Rush on board with that one. In fact, he'd probably BUY Cuba as soon as the Castro boys put it up for sale.
if the MIC doesn't have an enemy
We'll always have Paris...I mean Chavez.
Cheney just simply needs to stick his head in a toilet and shut the hell up.
The idiot sounds like a tired warped broken record that needs to be thrown into the trash.
like waterboading only throwing a few other turds in with him?
Pay per view it.
to see it.
.
What would you eat the day before to prepare for the honor?
What happened to the precedent that former presidents and vice presidents didn't bad mouth their successors? I don't recall Jimmy Carter slamming Bush senior the then head of the CIA who supposedly through the CIA worked behind the scenes to have the American hostages in Iran release delayed till after the presidential election effectively handing the presidential election to Reagan.
It cost Carter the election but for the good of the country and out of respect for the office of the presidency Carter said nothing. Of course, he was a Democrat.
http://www.answers.com/topic/iran-hostage-crisis
anything is! just ask steve croft why he lied about terrrrrrists returning to battle. there was never any proof that anyone at gitmo did any fucking thing. no evidence whatsofuckingever, not even the evidence they can't show the defense.
You are right CoIntel. Colin Powell's chief of staff made comments last week that shed light on the prisoners at Gitmo. He said Bush/CHeeney put out the word that they would pay 5 grand for any terrorist in Afghanistan. Naturally, the taliban started rounding up innocent civilians to collect the bounty.
All of this talk about..."if you release them they will turn around and kill American." is just more fearmongering from those who do it so well. We release convicted murderers/rapist/bank robbers etc. everyday, and they are released back into the civilian US population. At least these unconvicted prisoners at Gitmo will be released back into that deserted, rocky hellhole known as Afghanistan.
Ford dished out some harsh words to Bush and Cheney posthumously.
Doesn't Cheney have any defenseless flightless pen raised birds or old lawyers to shoot in his retirement instead of interfering with the man who is trying to fix his fuck ups?
To quote Kathleen Turner from the movie Serial Mom: "Shut your fucking filthy mouth you dirty rotten cock sucker!"
is like a deranged and dangerous psychotic criminal who has escaped from a mental institution for the criminally insane. He will go on rampaging until he is stopped.
What do you mean, "like"?
should have put arkham ayslum
"Shut your fucking filthy mouth you dirty rotten cock sucker!"
...and be reminded that John McCain is NOT President, and Cindy McCain is NOT the first lady.
Two people who I could not stand, the party boy who failed upwards (like the man he was trying to replace as President) and the plastic Barbie doll wife who came from a family worth a hundred mil.
Thank you America (at least 53% of you)
Now, lets continue to expose Cheney as an illegal fraud every chance that presents itself until he is indicted
If Cheney has anything to say it should be under oath.
to PRESIDENT Obama eviscerating former VICE PRESIDENT Cheney with the truth. i wonder if they'll say anything at all? naah, i dont think so. theyve been pwned. Obama hit it out of the park with those statements. Cheney can take his criminal fear-mongering and shove it up his arse.
on november 5th.
Thanks Jo. That Cheney description was awesome.
I can get used to having an intelligent president. I can't get used to a former v.p., who still thinks that people wouldn't fly planes into buildings if they thought they might be waterboarded.
It's alright. Cheney is the ultimate Republican troll. Even better than Rush Limbaugh, since, unlike Limbaugh, he can't claim to not be a Republican whenever it suits him to do so, and he can't distance himself from the crappy Republican record of governance. Having him pop up on television every now and then, like the proverbial skunk at the picnic is just what we need to remind the American people of what the ALTERNATIVE to Obama is.
I loved the way the President challenged Cheney's respect and regard for the Constitution and our laws. Intellectual TKO.
For the first time in 8 years I walk down the street of a foreign nation without a paper sack over my head.
The whole premise of Guantanamo promoted by Vice President Cheney was that, somehow, the American system of justice was not up to the task of dealing with these terrorists. I fundamentally disagree with that. Now, do these folks deserve miranda rights? Do they deserve to be treated like a shoplifter down the block? Of course not.
Am I reading that wrong? While they shouldn't be treated just like petty shoplifters, did he just say they didn't have Miranda rights? (I really hope I missed something here...) Miranda rights are kind of a big deal...
re: Sun, 03/22/2009 - 20:07 — Ronin08
I'm with you - Miranda rights ARE important. Right to counsel, right to remain silent, and a public and speedy trial are all exactly what is at issue here.
Again, Mirandas are not meant for POWs. There are other conventions to deal with those. If they were caught on a foreign battlefield, they are not entitled to Miranda Rights.
That being said, many of the intentions of the Miranda Rights are similar to those of how POWs are to be treated anyways. Still, I would not call it Miranda.
guilt.
is that anyone accused of terrorist activities should be taken more seriously than a common criminal, but that they should still be afforded a trial under U.S. law.
I don't believe the Miranda Rights apply to international prisoners of war. As these people were not arrested on U.S. soil, and technically under wartime, reading them their rights is asking a bit much.
You are absolutely right, Obama is not trying to say that these people have no rights, or that they are afforded the same rights as criminals who commited crimes in US soil. And let's not forget that those release and are now involved in terrorism were released without a trial by the Bush administration. The entire attitude from the previous administration made us way unsafer than ever.
Now, why do you suppose they'd go get involved in terrorism after they were released?
Wnat a crock. He is sending more troops to Afghanistan to help stop terrorism. The fool, like the fool beofore him, doesn't see that he is the terrorist now.
- Close guanmtanamo, send them all to a worse prison in Afghanastan
- Ban on lobbyists in the administration, half a dozen "waivers" to date
- No more torture, but we'll make exceptions as we see fit
- Already with the signing statements. And from a Con Law professor at that.
- Tax dodger at Treasury continuing the giveaways
- Growth in the proposed military budget.
Same (almost) as the old boss.
Now before you all jump ugly on me, OK, OK, yeah, we're better off than under Bushco. But, and it's a big but, the evidence to date indicates the corporations and the Pentagon STILL own the country, and for that matter, Obama too.
Has followed Bush's road by stating that the prisoners can not be released when some of them have not been charged or proven to have committed a crime at all...
Lot of these persons from what I have read ,, were given to Bush for money and there is no evidence of them being involve in any actions against U.S. at all..
Second Obama is not going to pull the troops from Iraq like he stated in his campaign promise... He NOW states that he is going to pull some troops by the end of 2011 leaving 50,000 NON-COMBAT troops..... How in the h... can they call 50,000 American train combat soldiers NON-COMBAT troops...
We are now being feed BS from Obama... Why do all elected officials once they take office ,,, think that their lies and BS sound better then the person before them which have giving us lies and BS...
Obama is also keeping Bush's illegal spying network in place... What really is amazing is that more of the illegal spying is done by Israel's spying companies which are also spying on our intelligent agencies and military information...
What other country do you know ,,, That spends the amount of money we do for Israel's national debt , supplies them with all the latest military equipment / supplies , while fighting other countries for their welfare...
Obama also is breaking his oath when when he was swore into office twice.. By not prosecuting Bush and others in Bush's administration for their crimes , treason , torture , war contracts which have stolen billions of our tax money and their other criminal crimes...
Obama make a statement which I saw on the news tonight ,,, he said with a smile that the Bank institutions want our tax money to do as they please with no strings attach... Then Obama said that Americans want to control the banks and make profit from them...
Well again I believe Obama is full of BS , because the banks have and will continue to receive our tax money for these criminal institutions to do as they d... well please....
And second Americans want not parts of giving them our tax money to buy the banks toxin stocks , which are not worth the paper or what ever it is printed on...
I've felt all along that the Republicans have a brilliant strategy in place.
If the Dems pull the troops out, Iraq will simply collapse. Mark my words, the country will disappear and be absorbed by Iran (a very bloody battle I'm sure), Kurdistan will form, and the rest will probably become part of Syria. If this happens, the Repubs get to say "I told you so" and will make sure that everyone knows it.
If we leave the troops in, the Dems will look like hypocrites and the Repubs will use this for ammunition also.
Bush basically knocked the supports out from underneath the house and gave it to Obama. We're screwed either way.
What do you mean "Kurdistan will form?" Kurdistan has been an independent country since before the invasion. To this day, it's even illegal to fly the Iraqi flag in Kurdistan.
The idea that Iraq will partition the moment the U.S. leaves is a given. Everybody knows it, but nobody wants to say so in public. And, what's worse is that former American diplomats and high profile American politicians were proposing that as the solution to the Iraq situation YEARS ago. Iraq was an artificial country, with it's borders artificially imposed by foreigners from the beginning. The fact that it would fall apart into its constituents again the moment the dictatorship was removed was something that was obvious to anyone who doesn't use his knuckles to walk.
Kurdistan is only a region. It is not recognized on the global scale as an independent nation. Besides, Kurdistan reaches much farther than Iraq. This would spell a huge conflict with Turkey.
It doesn't matter if it's a given. What matters is that the Republicans will use it to make the public think that the Democrats allowed a country to disappear. 95% of the public has no clue about the Middle East, let alone how the Republic of Iraq was formed. It's not about people thinking that a country like that could work. It's about people having no clue.
If you think the Taliban, with their assistance in planning the 9/11 attacks, their tyrannical theocratic rule of their people, and their influence on Pakistan (who possesses nuclear capability, is not a threat to the U.S. and doesn't need to be sorted, you're naive.
I'm as anti-war as you can get, and I certainly don't agree the U.S. ought to be flexing its military might, as Bush did in Iraq. But Iraq is not Afghanistan.
When the region is restored to democratic rule, we ought to hightail it out of there as quickly as possible. But we created Afghanistan, we created the Mujahideen, we created the vacuum that allowed the Taliban to come to power, we left the Taliban to resurge. You break it, you buy it.
There was no need for a military invation of Afghanistan. The military was sent in to establish a military presence in the mideast for reasons other than capturing terrorists. Capturing OBL should have been a police action. Nothing more. I don't think I really need to explain why Bush never intended to catch OBL.
And please. If you want to experience terrorism, be on the receiving end of US weapons. Now that is terrorism.
purveyor of state-sponsored terrorism. And certainly, that should stop.
But you're incorrect in assuming that the ONLY reason for the U.S. to have any security concern with Afghanistan was because of OBL's presence. As if Osama bin Laden on his own were the biggest threat to the world. Or if you cut off the head, the body would die.
Afghanistan, and I'm saying THANKS to the U.S. (and former USSR, of course), is a basket case. You just don't leave a homicidal maniac with a death wish and suicidal tendencies running around freely in your community armed with a rocket launcher.
We can negotiate with states that have some sort of leader, be they democratic or dictatorial. But states run by what amounts to a loose collective of motorcycle gangs, armed to the hilt, who've expressed firm belief that Western Society must be destroyed, and who've planned and executed major attacks on the U.S. is not a good idea.
that you are bamboozled. If you examine all the facts, you will find that the U.S. of A has been the problem.
Brilliant. And stated with very few words. We cannot expect those who see the US in white hats to understand. They grew up with US propaganda all their lives and it is not easy to see the evil the US imparts upon the rest of the world. I too was confounded until I realized that the US is wearing the black hat.
Please do not read anything beyond the notion that in the old western TV dramas we grew up with that it was always the bad guys that wore the black hats. That was how you knew who to root for.
the differences ARE fundaMENTAL.
Ask any thoughtful thinker!
Amen
-- Do President Obama's answers sound familiar to you? With little effort you may see them in the form of a question; questions you should have asked Mr. Cheney instead of nodding stupidly.
Obama and Cheney in the thunderdome. Two men enter......
.
Aside from his name, Cheney is dickless.
Obama Has followed Bush's road by stating that the prisoners can not be released when some of them have not been charged or proven to have committed a crime at all...
Lot of these persons from what I have read ,, were given to Bush for money and there is no evidence of them being involve in any actions against U.S. at all..
Second Obama is not going to pull the troops from Iraq like he stated in his campaign promise... He NOW states that he is going to pull some troops by the end of 2011 leaving 50,000 NON-COMBAT troops..... How in the h... can they call 50,000 American train combat soldiers NON-COMBAT troops...
We are now being feed BS from Obama... Why do all elected officials once they take office ,,, think that their lies and BS sound better then the person before them which have giving us lies and BS...
Obama is also keeping Bush's illegal spying network in place... What really is amazing is that more of the illegal spying is done by Israel's spying companies which are also spying on our intelligent agencies and military information...
What other country do you know ,,, That spends the amount of money we do for Israel's national debt , supplies them with all the latest military equipment / supplies , while fighting other countries for their welfare...
Obama also is breaking his oath when when he was swore into office twice.. By not prosecuting Bush and others in Bush's administration for their crimes , treason , torture , war contracts which have stolen billions of our tax money and their other criminal crimes...
Obama make a statement which I saw on the news tonight ,,, he said with a smile that the Bank institutions want our tax money to do as they please with no strings attach... Then Obama said that Americans want to control the banks and make profit from them...
Well again I believe Obama is full of BS , because the banks have and will continue to receive our tax money for these criminal institutions to do as they d... well please....
And second Americans want not parts of giving them our tax money to buy the banks toxin stocks , which are not worth the paper or what ever it is printed on...
you have to post your long rants twice? Has it occurred to you that Obama could have right away stepped in the quicksand but would rather wait until the ground got a bit firmer before he takes the next steps?
A stark contrast to Cheney's bull shit
Sure wood like to see a Hoops death match, between the two guys. No shotguns allowed though.
Do none of the posters look at history? We pulled out of a country that we were propping up and our helicopters evacuated the last us personel as the enemy was marching into the city. If we do not maintain a presence however large or small until the government can trully support itself then we will see the same images we saw in the seventies. I have talked to military personnel who have recently returned from iraq saying that it has calmed down significantly and when massive amounts of civilians aren't being killed the government actually stands a chance. What caused the premature abortion of our involvment in vietnan and want to premature abort our involvment with iraq: extreme liberals that take to the street and the hypocrits that are in DC. In both cases our military has won the fight it is the homefront that has no backbone.
As for those that say we created the terrorist and the mujahaddeen and whatever else, you again forget history. Our struggle was against the Soviet Union. Muslims called for a jihad to protect afghanistan from the soviets. yes we did fund them and provide training but we did not create them.
I do agree with the general opinion that it is nice to have an intelligent articulate president. I knew he was going to be elected once McCain nominated Palin but i did not vote for him because he is just too liberal for my tastes. this does not mean I wont support him as our president and objectively judge his performance during his first term come 2012.
Now to Gitmo:
I think Gitmo was a good idea poorly executed. It was origanly supposed to be a place where actual combatants and suspected terrorist could be taken out of theater and questioned for information. It ran afoul when they started believing every tip they got and paid for every tip. this led to many false tips and it ran afoul. I think if the Bush admin had stuck to the core idea of gitmo many of the ethical dilemmas that have resulted would not be an issue. Should enemy combatants and actual terrorists have the same rights as me and you? no. Should someone that was informed against so that his neighbor could have an easy payday be released with the apologies of a nation? yes
...And the collapse of Vietnam had what effect exactly on the US? Commies wondering through the streets? Huge posters of Uncle Ho on the Warshington Mall?
The "fall" of Iraq will have the exact same non-impact as the "fall" of Vietnam.
In our all-too-many dark moments from January 2001 to January 2009, did you think we'd hear the term "core values" coming out of the White House and have those values be other than fear(mongering), evil, greed, dishonesty, pride, and a host of other deadly sins?
Whew. I love the sound of real core values in the morning.
I look forward to more of these.
I think that this president get that weekly speeches, getting out in the public, and using the media to your advantage are good things. Jay Leno and 60 minutes in one week. Nice move.
I'm not sure what to think of Obama so far. There are things that he has done and not done that I don't agree with, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and some time because I can't even imagine the mess he's found on his desk the day he stepped into that office.
As bad as WE have heard that it is, I'm sure it's much worse when you start getting the security and economic briefings. There is another thing to think about too. Bush and Cheney left a lot of their minions in place, and Obama can not just fire them all, or he will step in deep political crap. Remember when the Clintons fired some people in the travel office.
It's a landmine that the Republicans have set for him so they can have some distraction. He has not bought into it yet, and is at least trying to thoughfully clean up this horrible mess that has been left for him that is NOT 8 years in the making, but almost 30 years in the making.
The Clintons did not try to significantly fix all of the messes the Reagan/Bush left them, and the we have foreign policy and domestic problems that have been built upon, and are going to be very complicated to repair. I'm glad that he's going into things in a thoughtful manner. He wants to unravel the Gordian Knot that of problems that our country has become, and I have to give him his propers for wanting to try.
It was clever of Obama to point out, when Warren Buffett's name came up, that he is a major stakeholder in Wells Fargo. In other words, folks, you might tend to discount what Warren has to say about recovery plans, etc.
The tone of calm equanimity was just right. The man still amazes me.
Barack Obama after his first year as president:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...
Did he accidentally hit his elderly friend's face instead?
Prosecute the bastards for the war crimes they committed, or all of this is just noise & wind,...
Will soft words, ignoring the continued US military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan and unlawful attacks on sites in Pakistan, cause the entire Muslim world and Arab world to love us?
I wish there were a deeper line in the sand between the Obama war policies and those of the Bush administration.
We needed to use Afghanistan as a jump-off point to build up our forces and equipment to head into Iraq. How 'convenient' for the 9/11 attacks to have been 'planned' and sent from there...........................
you got PWNED!!!!!
How do you respond to bullies? Call them out.
Barack is pure class as always. Cheney and the Dunce can't scare rational people anymore.
this, this right here, is change we can believe in.
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