I've Got Facts On My Side & You've Got Glenn Beck On Your Side! Rep Rick Larsen Town Hall
By CSPANJunkie Thursday Aug 13, 2009 3:00pm
August 12, 2009 MOX News
(Nicole:) Our very own CSpanJunkie attended Rep. Rick Larsen's town hall meeting on health care in Everett, Washington. By all accounts, it wasn't one of the crazed mob scenes they love showing us on the cable channels.
However, the addition of decorum did not bring with it the addition of sense. And in response to one person's dutiful recitation of misinformation, courtesy of the right wing, Rep. Larsen retorted with a classic line I think should be part of every Democratic congressman's repertoire:
CITIZEN: I have two real concerns about the nationalized health care insurance.
Why are all Americans forced into a government-run health care and insurance plan when only 46 million out of 312 million are uninsured? Do you want me to break down how those insured are found? 12 million are illegal immigrants, 17 million earn $50,000 plus and choose not to have inurance. 8.8 million without insurance for four months or less…or more because they’re between…they’re unemployed and between jobs. 8.2 are chronically uninsured. That’s a total of 46 million people. I’d be willing for the government to buy insurance policies for the 8.2 million chronically uninsured, but the other 37.8 million are not the responsibility of the American citizens and I will…I’m not willing…and I am unwilling to throw my present health care away for them.
LARSEN: Thanks. Thanks, Jim. Thanks for your input and your comments. With regards to the first comment about being forced to buy health care, I’ll say it again, not ‘till I’m blue in the face, I may get cold enough and I’ll look blue in the face here tonight, but it won’t be until I’m blue in the face. The bill does not force anybody to buy health care, to change…to change….I’m sorry, the bill does not force anybody to change their health care plan. If you’re in a plan, you will not be forced into the public option. You will not be forced into the health insurance exchange. Now folks will say that’s not true, but I’ve got facts on my side and you’ve got Glenn Beck on your side. It’s just not going to play off that way.
Bravo, Rep. Larsen...let's keep marginalizing Beck and his ilk in the exact same way over and over until even these Fox News viewers are too embarrassed to cite him.
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I am so happy when I hear this type of response. I sometimes think that maybe these Dirthers are getting to these congress people and after seeing this type of thing I get confidence that at least most of the Democrats can see through the bullshit that the manipulators are doing. Like that simple 35 year old woman in a previous post. I have to keep trying to remember that there are a lot of smarter people like everybody (most everybody that is) here.
LOL
Skeptics might point out that Section 102(c) on page 19 of the House bill prohibits the sale of private individual health insurance policies, beginning in 2013, forcing individuals to purchase coverage through the federal government. I don't know if that interpretation is correct, I'm just putting that out there.
posted by a user named Fact Check. It seems to lay it out fairly well.
__________
Ok, this is confusing, but let me try to explain.
Right now, the bill says:
"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
At first glance, you're right it appears that private insurers cannot enroll any new patients...HOWEVER, look closely at the phrase "issuer offering SUCH coverage does not enroll." This modifier, while seemingly insignificant changes the entire meaning of the paragraph.
"Such coverage" refers to the coverage outlined in the immediately preceding section...thus, "grandfathered health insurance coverage."
Basically, health insurers will need to offer a greater level of basic care in their minimum package. This means that they will have to increase the benefits they offer. Still, the bill wants to protect consumers from having their health insurance changed.
So, now, if you have health insurance that is below the new minimum, you can KEEP it, and the insurer must continue to offer it to you. But, when you decide you want to leave the plan, you will not be able to buy the grandfathered insurance. Sec 102 ensures that the insurance company cannot enroll anyone in these grandfathered, and INADEQUATE plans.
Does that make more sense? This isn't even slightly nefarious. If you like your plan, you keep it. If you don't like it, you use the new exchange to choose which plan you want. The exchange will include a public option (for now), but it also offers all private insurers, as well. You have the CHOICE.
The whole point is just that the bill makes certain the insurers can't skirt the new policies by offering "grandfathered" plans to patients who didn't already have them. There are no limits on the number of new enrollees in private plans.
Does that help?
________________
Did you actually read that or did you just read some right wing lame article about section 102, because I dont think you read it or understood it. So let me put this out there.
EC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage' means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage (IE `grandfathered health insurance coverage') does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
Which means.....
Section 102 is laying out the requirements for Grandfathered Health Care Coverage. This means that the text refers to what an Insurance Provider must comply with in order to keep current plans from falling under the Bill's requirements for Insurance.
Your current insurance will not be required to meet the Bill's policies as long as they don't enroll new people, start charging you a lot more or change any of its terms or conditions.
If for some reason you change insurance providers or re-work your insurance, the New Insurance Policy will have to comply with the policies and requirements of the Bill.
Again, "does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1." refers ONLY to keeping a policy's status as "Grandfathered" or Immune to the requirements of the Bill. It does NOT apply to New Policies.
is why you guys have all of a sudden just stopped questioning everything? I have to laugh at you guys, after 8 years of constant bashing and questioning, have just rolled over to these politicians and showed your belly on this health care plan. Somehow, you guys have been lulled into believing you're in a "us vs. them - Dem vs. Rep - Lib vs Con" but the reality is, it's all of us versus the politicians. I like to think I'm very much in the middle, politically - I will always side with the people against the government. Seriously, you say you are so happy to hear this kind of response - really? Why is that? Because some politician shot down a citizen? Jeez....the post here even says "dutiful recitation of misinformation, courtesy of the right wing," - how do you know this? Did you interview this person afterward? I have the same questions. Shoot - just reading the comments here, I have no idea what is right - in trying to support this politician, you get "Ok, this is confusing, but let me try to explain." You're damn right, it's confusing. If people that claim to know what this bill says have a hard time explaining it, why isn't everyone asking questions like this?
Quick point too - I just read the transcript here, but does it not bother anyone else that this citizen (who you guys are berating - why? I have no idea - I guess because your politicians say you should) rattles off all of these statistics and this guy's response is "I’ve got facts on my side and you’ve got Glenn Beck on your side." Okay....then give them to us? Where are they? Does it suffice just to say "I have facts on my side?" Are these numbers incorrect? Are they wrong? Can you quote some of this bill where it says specifically this will not happen? I keep hearing these politicians say this will not happen - where is it in writing? If Fox and these "wing nuts" are so wrong, where is the proof? And please don't tell me to go read the bill....I have tried - I think I would have a better chance reading Greek and I don't consider myself a dumb person. How is the average American supposed to act?!?
Again, I would like to reiterate - I am very much in the middle on this - but I will say, where is all of this fight from the citizen left? Seriously? I thought liberalism was borne from questioning government? Now, all of a sudden - you blast people that do? You can tell me it's right wing agenda....yeah, well, maybe - but is it wrong? I don't know. Why aren't you guys digging for the truth?
Don't be blind here guys. Again - it's us (the citizens) versus them (the politicians). Remember, whatever they pass, they don't have to use.
Finally, and I mean this question sincerely - this is my biggest problem I have with this health care change: why has it never worked before?
I think many on the left have been questioning this idea for decades, and we finally have the answer we're looking for. It is confusing, but the point is, something has to be done about health care, and this President is approaching it in a very measured, responsible way. The bottom line is, SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE. Shouting that reform is "bad" or is "tearing down America" doesn't mean anything and doesn't get us anywhere. Change is scary, but letting our country fall into financial servitude to powerful insurance giants (and that's where we're headed without reform) is not an option. We're kind of between a rock and a hard place, and no one wants to be here, so let's get the heck out.
This woman did have some real numbers, and she didn't strike me as a "wingnut" at all. I think the Congressman's comment about facts vs. Beck was pertaining to the "Why are you going to force people into a national plan?" That is just plain misinformation, and the Congressman is dispelling that misinformation clearly with his reply. It's about time that the proponents of reform come out and call this misinformation what it is. It's destructive and divisive and not at all helpful.
We still have plenty to question (DOMA, DATA, TARP, torture, renditions, etc.), but trying to stop the government limiting the power of insurance companies and taking care of sick people just isn't where we want to spend our time and energy.
...oh, and when you say it's never worked before, you mean that we haven't been able to reform the health insurance system in this country, correct? Because national health insurance has a proven positive record in many (most) other industrialized nations. We haven't been able to institute a workable system here because insurance companies have been too powerful and politicians have been too weak to follow through on what they know is right for the country.
I liked the guy's point on the video about "provide for the general welfare."
Where's Reagan when we need him to remind us that facts are stupid things?
In people that are against changing the health care system, I'm not talking about insurance executives, I'm talking about regular idiot Americans, is. I am not willing to pay!
It is always a greed thing, every fucking time.
I have heard it a thousand times. I am not willing to pay for someone else!
republicanism is a mental illness!
Is it greed that foments the hate? or the other way around. Either way it's the human mind gone bad.
And it seems that they are self-avowed cree-yist-yins who worship a guy named cheezis who said,"Sell all your goods and give it to the poor."
I mean, how...what the...oh **** it.
too funny!
And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
Mark 10:20-15 KJV
use to get saps to turn over their money to them
except Dobson wasn't poor
it's selfishness. Pure selfishness. And when they need help, they are the first ones in line at the government offices.
It also seems that the most selfish people are the top 2%. People who make more than $1,000,000 a year.
I know some very wealthy people who help the less fortunate.
But again, this is Monterey. Pebble Beach has a private fund built on private donations from the very wealthy who live in Pebble Beach.
This fund goes to the Community Hospital of Monterey Peninsula.
It pays for services that the less fortunate can't afford to pay.
This fund helped my friend when his wife died.
And they helped my parents too.
So Not all the wealthy are greedy aholes.
Oh, btw, thanks for the link to CNN. I told them to just go and send Dobbs to Faux Nooz. He belongs there with Tucker.
Charity.
This is a word that I have always felt was a poorly understood and used. Charity is selfless giving where the only "tangible" reward is a good feeling inside yourself. If you give money to a charity or organization and, in turn, receive a tax write-off or some other compensation (influence/your name on a building), you aren't giving, you are bartering one thing for another. Giving your last $5 to your neighbor so she can feed her kids tonight and not expecting anything in return...now THAT'S charity.
There are many wealthy generous people. Painting everyone who is wealthy as being selfish is as closed minded as labeling everyone who is poor as lazy
I've narrowed it to 4 things. Greed, Fear, Ignorance or Hatred. Fear and ignorance can be dealt with. Greed and hatred can't.
Ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing
Where in hell did that Citizen get those statistics? I call bullshit on everyone of them. As for people making $50K and above who "chose" not to have health insurance: $50K isn't than much money if you have to buy a private insurance policy. I make just a little less than that and there's no way I could pay for insurance if my employer didn't provide it. Not if I wanted to keep a roof over my head anyway.
...and your fancy roofs and your facts and your long sentences. Yew sikken me!
My husband and I, who are in our mid-late 50's have to pay $21,000 per year in health insurance premiums (and it's the only insurance we can get -- COBRA & HIPPA.) If you make $50K per year, that will take up the lion's share of your after tax income. We are using our retirement savings to pay it. So, when we retire, we won't have that savings anymore.
Tax Rates in UK: http://*******.com/o48t3p
UK Net Wages include Medical Insurance and to my current knowledge they do not have social security. I've read a couple things mentioning, "Social Security Privatization: Lessons From The United Kingdom." Yet, I will not confirm it exactly due to skepticism and disbelief. Private insurance is available in the UK? In Canada Private Insurance not available at all and did not find it worth my time calculating after this conclusion.
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Upper Basic Limit UK 20%
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Annual Gross Pay: £37,400 / $53 444
Net Wage: £27,730 / $39,626
http://*******.com/r5e96w
****** = t/i/n/y/u/r/l without all the /slashes/
---
USA
---
Annual Gross Pay: £37,400 / $53,445
Net Pay: £26,739 / $38,210
http://*******.com/prjtvq - Enter $$'s for result - I selected Virginia
---------------------------------------------
Difference: $1416 + 12K Healthcare = $13,416
Practically 25% pay increase living in the UK
---------------------------------------------
------------------
Top UK Bracket 40%
------------------
Annual Gross Pay £74,800 / $106 889
Net Wage £50,443 / $72,083
http://*******.com/pxlt7b
---
USA
---
Annual Gross Pay £74,800.00 / $106,889
Net Pay $48,934 / $69,927
Use link above
--------------------------------------------
Difference: $2156 + 12K Healthcare = $14,156
Practically ~13.2% Pay Increase Living in UK
--------------------------------------------
-------------------------
Average Income Comparison
-------------------------
UK Annual Average Gross Income £22,602 / $32,298
Net Wages £17,519 / $25,035
http://*******.com/om2lty
US Average Gross Income £35,153/ $50,233
Net Wages £25,355 / $36,232
http://*******.com/3xl93u
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Difference: $11,197 US Net Wages extra - 12K Healthcare = -3.
So even though UK gets on average paid less.. the NHS system
makes it $3 more take home on average.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
Yearly milage 12K/year | Costs -> http://*******.com/386tv
----------------------------------------------------------
UK National AVG MPG 31.5 MPG: $2502.86
http://*******.com/2hx9z6
USA National AVG MPG 19.8 MPG: $1690.90
http://*******.com/o5xvje
--------------------------------------------
Difference: $811.96 More Expensive in the UK.
I thought higher fuel costs might make overall
expenses higher and was completely wrong.
--------------------------------------------
I believe everything is correct and spent an hour compiling this and now hungry as hell. Please feel free to correct any inaccuracies.
****** = /t/i/n/y/u/r/l without all those /slashes/ though
you spend a fucking hour and you post those fucking stats....c'mon man...you want people to even looks at that shit..no way..never and no one..
WTF? I appreciate the analysis and the breakdown. If you don't want to pay attention and actually read something...go watch Beck and shut the fuck up.
Yes you can get private insurance if you wish to pay for it, and some employers use it as a form of bonus compensation, but its not common. I add that you should take into consideration the vastly more available public transport, and the difference in the petrol measurement from liters to US gallons. It is different from an Imperial gallon, which is less volume than a US gallon. On the whole though, you got it right. Another item, prescriptions from the chemist are always 6 quid (about 11 bucks) and dental is 30 quid, (about 45 USD) no matter what you have done. I had a crown done here an it cost me $1100. I about shit myself, and i have insurance. Eyeglasses are covered as well, and you pay a nominal fee for designer frames.
how Elton John affords them?
.99 pence a litre. 1 pound British is roughly 1.55-60 US.
3.79 litres is a gallon.
The UK is paying somewhere around 5.55 a gallon. Give or take.
Cigarettes were 2.99 a pack. That's a pack of ten cigs.
So that's roughly 4.35 a pack of ten cigs. I can't remember how much a reg pack was. What ever it was, I think you can guess.
Pints(ales and lagers) varied in price depending on where you went. The cheapest beer was 2 pounds a pint.
Other pubs charged 3 pounds for the same bevy.
Groceries seemed in line with here. For the most part anyway.
Energy is very expensive( Electricity is way up there,gas is cheaper).
Kidding with shaggles aside, I am sorry to hear that.
out of it after 50 is to put everything you own (cars, assets), less your house in your kids or someone younger you trust name, then you can slide into medicaid. Gotta do it 5 years ahead tho.
They do not make it easy
Items not covered by provincial health plans can be insured through insurance plans. Things like dental,drug and the services of optometrists are not covered unless there are exigent circumstances.
The way I understand it is yoiu should put you house in your kid's name or whatever too. They may not take your house while yoiu are in it but if you go to sell it they will take their share. That was the way it was explained to me in California. It may be wrong but that was what my insurance agent told me.
on that. They are sneaky bastards.
If you owe someone some money you can shift assets to them also, 5 year rule exempted then
Well don't take his word for it...do your own research
For all of those video recording these events, please learn to keep the subject in the frame. That means more than just a floating head at the bottom of the screen. If you intend to distribute these videos, please pay attention to what you are doing. Otherwise, you captured a great moment.
will be the first in line for the government option if the price tag is less for her
That one should be framed.
n/c
I should try to design one -- I'm a graphic artist. Can anybody get them printed/distributed?
That was a truely priceless moment. I'm going to donate to this guy even though I'm on the other side of the United States.
You gotta love the question. "...when ONLY 46 million people are uninsured". You gotta look at the grand scheme of things. It's only 15 percent of the population. Hell, why should we worry about feeding a child when only 12% (just throwing a number out there, I don't know the real number, please post it) go hungry every night. I need me a Malkin to track her down.
It was only six million Jews....
C'mon, it's only 46 million. Geez...me being one of them, but it's okay...I prefer to suffer in silence anyway.
sarcasm. It was hard to tell by your response. I was saying her marginalization of 46 million people was pretty sad. I know what your talking about. I'm lucky enough to have health care. Am I happy with my coverage? Yes. As long as I don't cancer, diabetes, or something major where they'll drop me. Am I happy with my premiums? Fuck no. In the past ten years while the cost of living has gone up any increase in my wages has been countered and even lowered my wages because of the cost of my coverage. This is no bullshit. One year the cost TO ME of my health care coverage went up 73%. other years 24% and 47%. I was lucky this year, it was only 13%. The 13% was because I switched plans to a higher deductible and higher copay. It all evens out though. I don;t go to doctors for anything knowing that if I do they raise my premium. For all I know, my kidneys could be going. I have a history of diabetes and Alzheimer's in my family but financially I can't afford to be diagnosed. I support Walmart because I can't afford to buy the good stuff or support my local butcher.
Of course I realized you were being sarcastic. So was I.
Just wanted to make sure. Didn't want you think I was one of those (un)compassionate conservatives.
I did not realize it was sarasm . However its still true about the Ukraine and we here so little of that .
You are fortunate to have health ins , I have a family history of diabetes and have lost family both younger and older than i . me its just a bum ticker 4 heart attacks so far and no health ins , was fired two weeks after returning to work after my first one .
On a much sadder Les Paul died today , a real genius and great human being .
Not necessary. We're all pissed as shit and type faster than our thoughts let us. My dad died 17 years next month ago from complication due to diabetes. He was 60. But he was taken care of when health insurance was more about the sick and less about the profits. My best to you and I hope it all works out.
I play guitar myself. I got Les Paul sitting next me. Decent looking movie coming out next week. "It May Get Loud". A documentary with a conversation with Jimmy Page, The Edge, and Jack White. Check it out:
http://www.sonyclassics.com/itmightgetloud/
Started playing early ( about 1952 ? ) my first real guitar was a Gibson ES-125 , Les Paul was my second fav . # 1 Chet Atkins .
{Can we keep it on topic please? SiteMonitor}
read somewhere that 35 million died in WW 2 , of that 10 + millom were from the Ukraine , Stalins SP was composed of up to 80% jews ( Kragovich SP ? ) was in charge and they starved to death 10 + million people lest not forget them either . So please that war is over and will never be forgoten , let us not forget the other 29 million people either .
The issue is here and it is now , nothing less .
It was sarcasm. Sorry to throw a couple of you off. I have not forgotten anyone in WWII or any war including the ones we are fighting now. The point was her marginalizing 46 million without health care.
You're cool gump, sarcasim seems to be a lost art these days.
just being able to always understand it .
You're cool too dnyknot. Sometimes clarification is important.
sure wish i was able understand more than i do
You understand the truth behind this debate. That's good enough for me.
nt
just dawned on me ,
Here all this time i thought it was subtiety that was a lost art .
And irony.
out information about people that can supposedly afford coverage, but choose not to take it. One of our local idiots, Bob Beers, cited a similar situation and figure for Nevada recently on our local NPR station.
The major problem with this, is that even if you can afford to hold the coverage you cannot necessarily afford to use the coverage. My husband is a teacher and we have coverage through their health and welfare fund, ours is the second tier coverage, not the Cadillac coverage. They have done an awesome job of shifting, via copays/co-insurance, costs to the user. Whenever we get our EOB (explanation of benefits), I always like to calculate what percentage of the transaction we paid and what percentage the fund paid. In some cases, our payment represents anywhere from 60% to 100% of the transaction. Some of the copays for scans like CTs, MRIs and PETs are hundreds of dollars. Our daughter had surgery recently and her surgeon would not continue forward without receiving his $250 copay upfront. We are lucky and can afford this, but I know many cannot.
I'm an RN and was sitting at lunch the other day and heard a horrible story about someone I work with. She's a small nurse and had been punched in the chest by a patient. He punched her so hard that he fractured her sternum and two ribs. She's a traveling nurse and when she was unable to work she wasn't paid. She went to pick up some medications for pain, etc. and her workmen's comp had not kicked in and because she had been off work and was not being paid she could not afford her medications and the pharmacy would not give them to her because she did not have the cash or the coverage. She began to cry because she was in pain and was trying to work. A charge nurse offered to help her and hopefully they got her what she needed, but this is serious bullshit, and this is just a very small example of the way this all does not work.
Her story is one OF a million. Watching the Ed Show tonight he had a great piece. Where is James Dobson and his ilk on this health care debate. His God, his Jesus specifically stated in their bible that they would care for the sick. Yet not a word from them. Which proves one thing. There goal is not the word of God but the riches for their believers.
there has to be goals if you live in the C Street house.
they always continue to astound me at how they pervert and distort the Bible and Jesus' teachings. The Gospel of Prosperity is such a load of shit.
I work in a very specialized 14-bed intensive care unit and we are required to work four weekend days a month. I purposefully work on Sundays so that those that really want/need to go to church can go and it also is my mission. I won't even attempt to explain my spiritual beliefs, but it's the good that I can give the world. I always have people tell me, "I could never do what you do," as I'm cleaning up vomit or feces or I observe someone's life/world fall apart and I know that I'm more of a Christian than a Dobson or a Falwell will ever be.
I don't nor have ever worked in a nursing home or assisted living. But I did take care of my mother. She has Dementia. She was the, excuse me, she is the strongest person I know. But the disease took her. I did the cleaning, the cooking the comforting for her until I no longer could. We had to put her in a nursing home. A good one until she ran out of money. Now she's in a shit hole that's under funded. I have a stake in this health care debate. If not for me but for my my mother. I need WWJD bumper sticker.
dad and my ex's-dad , my dad was in a wheel chair the last years of his life , gave up my business to take care of him , helped my ex for a couple of years taking care of her dad . Would do the same thing again , no doubt ! , both were sharp as tacks just could not take care of themselfs , dementia is a different ball game . One of my buds provides home health care ( she can have up to 6 people living there ) while they for the most part are not aware of what they do its heartbreaking to watch .
This is something everyone should have to do , it would open your heart , of this i speak from experince .
sorry, and this is precisely the kind of thing that is wrong. Generally the reason for poor/substandard care is the profit that the greedy bastards are trying to eek out of a business. My mother-in-law had Parkinson's and developed the dementia that they do sometimes. We watched this vibrant, wonderful woman deteriorate. My father-in-law cared for her at home until he could not do it. She was placed in a lovely facility and received excellent care, but my father-in-law went through his savings to do it. This is all so wrong.
Grassley actually seemed to be a decent person until he supported this Sarah Palin bullshit for fringe conservative ideas. Grasley was actually a decent advocate for people with Alzheimer's. This would be like Eunice Shriver against a Republican bill that would support the mentally handicapped 100% and more just because it was a Republican bill
Unfortunately, these stories are all too common. Why aren't we hearing more of them? Because it would make the insurance industry feel bad? These are the stories that need to be told en masse in this debate. Thank you for sharing.
Because the MSM relies on the insurance and drug companies for their revenue.
I have many more. Nursing is about a fourth career for me, but what I should have been doing all along. I've worked for insurers and big pharma and I have lots of horrible stories about people being jerked around over their access to health care.
Just as an aside, I even worked for Applied Pharmacy that's been in the news recently - yikes.
This is close for you.
you have all my respect and more. dealing and doing what I did for my mother was/is nothing less than heart breaking. Watching these good people like yourself taking care of her gives me some level of comfort. Just visiting mom and seeing all of these patients and people like yourself taking care of her is more than I could do. It's not end of life or euthanasia. It's easing what can't be stopped. But conservatives want to take such a sad aspect of human life and make into a corporate financed defense. Fuck them.
I love what I do, I've actually been told that I spend too much time in my patients' rooms. I've always tried to approach it with the perspective of "what if this was me or one of my family?" I'm generally given the patients or families perceived as difficult because I'm patient and I try to be kind. I don't understand how people can't find it in their heart to sympathize or empathize with others. We deal with Living Wills quite a bit and I've helped many people pass and it's always easier on the family when the patient has been able to outline how they would like to die. It's so hard for people to try to decide what to do when there are no instructions and they are tired and upset and I think our physicians do a great job of explaining all the options and being patient with people, but it's a horrible decision to have to make.
My wish is that we can all find the humanity in ourselves and others. Whenever I'm having a tough day I remind myself that there in that bed lies someone's baby. It sounds kind of crazy, but that reminds me that they were loved and wanted and that they need to see that concern again.
You're absolutely right on your last point, it's probably the most reprehensible thing that they've done - scaring old people to make a buck or keep their bonuses, it's truly pathetic and I say "fuck them," too.
The moment he said, "the nationalized health care insurance", I would of stopped him right there.
"This won't be "nationalized health care", so already your "concerns" are baseless.
Boy, those people will buy anything Glenn Beck says. I haven't heard anyone say that I have to give up my health care plan. This government run health care is just another option for people to have and for those that have health care, its a fallback plan. That is the way I see it.
looked like she was old enough to be on Medicare.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." You want the constitution? I'll give you the constitution.
Article One of the United States Constitution describes the powers of the legislative branch of the federal government - the Congress.
Section 8: The Congress shall have power
To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Regarding general welfare - the intent of the phrase is to permit the government to act in a manner that benefits the entire country - not to reward a select minority at the expense of the majority. Certainly it was not meant to compel the producers to subsidize the irresponsible and lazy (including the corporations).
You're also ignoring the the 10th Amendment - "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." This amendment forbids nationalized health care and 99% of the other things that the government gets away with under the loose interpretation of the general welfare and commerce clauses.
did a good job trying to explain the issue to that woman, but she'll probably never be convinced.
I enjoyed the crowd reaction to Larsen's quip. There are still some sensible people out there!
She probably never will be convinced but you never know.
miracles do happen!
not one person has been prosecuted for the economic failure. Not one person has been prosecuted for no wmd in Iraq. The priviledged class now want to keep healthcare only for themselves. God Bless the people who die waiting for America to live up to its promise.
Yes, if you notice, all the talking heads who put this down and are punking and using these simple people, all of these talking heads have the best health insurance. They don't have to worry about it. They make their $500,000 or $10,000,000 a year and their insurance is thrown in on top of that. Of course they don't care about the lady up above (Thu, 08/13/2009 - 16:45 — 4thePeople) who is paying close to 50% of their income for health insurance and spending their nest egg doing it. Probalby so if they get sick their house will not be taken from them. Their house that the Bush administration lost 40% of the value of.
I voted for him , best one liner yet , start printing those t-shirts and hats and bumper stickers
someone gave me this list of sponsors of Glenn Beck. Geico has now pulled out, as has men's wherehouse. These guys only speak money--so be it. Let them know you won't buy their stuff until they pull their advertising dollars that support Glenn Beck.
http://blackoak.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/boyc...
in fact, here is a response I got from Nestle (which I emailed a response calling that essentially corporate NIMBYism:
Although we work with a number of third parties and outside spokespersons as part of our promotional activities, it is essential to make clear that their personal comments, apart from our brands, are not representative of Nestlé. We will share your comments with our marketing/advertising departments.
Just look at that quote--and oldy Rethugs worry about unsympathetic beauracracy.
We will soon be putting our ads and notices across the internet that the sponsors who stay with Beck, we will be putting their names out there as supporters of pure hate and racism.
Photo of Beck, mid-rant and looking wildly insane. "Brought to you by (logo)"
Find me the appropriate photo and I'll do the art.
Someone else will have to take it from there.
or a benign tumor with a remarkable resemblance to the man. I'm having it removed next week.
Ugh, what toxic dump site can that be disposed of in?
be thankful it's not hemorrhoid surgery!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/09/glen...
;)
At Niki Tsongas's town hall event at least 2/3 of the people looked like they were on medicare. They don't mind it when they suck off the government, but don't let anyone younger do the same. The Representatives should ask the questioner every time if they are on Medicare and scold them if they are. And I bet she is a "god fearing" christian, as well. Nice compassion from the mentally challenged christian right.
Great come with the Beck line but then he droans on about who knows what. Why can’t the democrats have a handful of surgical talking points to repeat over and over? No one ever speaks with one voice. Even though everything the republicans spew is complete bullshit they are experts at this for instance death panels and rationing are simple points they make rather this boring lecture about word soup
Guys, check out Sibel Edmonds, the NSA translator, gone whistleblower:
http://www.askbutwhy.com/search/label/Sibel%20Edmonds
Larsen and Lawrence O'Donnell need to give Health Scare retort lessons to everyone who finds it too much of a challenge to take down the malarkey being spread by Beck and his cohorts.
Glad the questioner has Beck on her side, I'll take Larsen over the windbag Beck any day of the week.
but here's a link to covertheunisured.org that obtain their statistics from Employee Benefit Research Institute: http://covertheuninsured.org/content/quick-fa...
Read page 16 of HR 3200. Then come back and tell me that you can PROMISE that I will be able to A) keep my current health care package, or B) switch to my wife's package to save some cash. I have both of these options now. I might possibly have option A if this passes, I most certainly will NOT have option B.
Cover people that WANT to be covered by expanding Medicare and Medicaid. Leave my health care the heck alone.
About time all speakers start pointing out the names of Right wing-nutO liars.
Wow, other than refuting her Glenn Beck inspired rhetoric, he did a LOUSY JOB answering the poor befuddled soul's comments! REALLY AWFUL! First he should have asked her "Are you on Medicaid?" Then when she answered YES, he could have asked he how she enjoys her "Big Government Health care"! Then he could have reminded her how much the average STILL WORKING citizen pays for her to enjoy these benefits at such a low cost to her. PERIOD! She is a member of the largest single-payer health care system in the world and doesn't even seem to realize it!
Secondly, how is this "12 million illegal aliens" are part of the uninsured crap I keep hearing about? This cannot possibly be true! Then she mentions "Only 46 million out of 312 million are uninsured!" That is an astoundingly high number, nearly 1 in 7! What a total ass this frau is! Congressmen and women need to HIT HARD with FACTS and remind the elderly that they are ALREADY part of SOCIALIZED MEDICINE at a very attractive price and they should work towards offering this massive benefit to all!
During these debates and town halls, it is very important that the RIGHT questions are asked. Rick Larsen was absolutely correct. We will not be forced into the public option. In defense of Glenn Beck, he never said we would be forced into switching...but the devil is in the details. If you change jobs (which people do all the time) you will indeed be forced into the public option.
Public option would be better than simply doing nothing. It would be another thing if you never got sick or lost job leading to loss of health coverage. With a clause where the health insurer keeps tab on how much you have given (though I personally would document it *chuckles*) and they give you remaining leftover. So you could handle the hardship as necessary.
Also, I see massive flaws with job provided coverage. Hypothetically, I am with job "X" with healthcare "X" then apply for job "Y" with healthcare "Y" due to change of job. Where I got pre-existing illness "Z" (like diabetes) and they decide not to me since it's just too damn expensive for them.
Yet massive issue I see with current system is if I get new plan will they deny my due to pre-existing condition when I was FORCED out of my old plan from losing my job.
You know what really ticks me OFF when I hear this crap! They don't finish the sentence.
Yes, you can keep you own health insurance,(Here comes the rest of the sentence they don't finish..)but you will HAVE TO PAY FOR THE GOVERNMENT PLAN TOO!
Wake up you morons! Who would pay for TWO! Heath Insurance plans?? NOBODY!
So if I'm forces to pay for the government plan, will I keep my private insurance too? NO, "But you can keep it if you want..." That's how these democrats can get away with saying this line of crap.
Wake up!
you don't get to opt out of paying taxes that support schools, If you don't drive on certain roads in your area, you still pay taxes.
Why don't you, for the sake of consistency in your own life, start a tax rebellion for people with kids in private schools. It's totally unfair for them to have to pay the taxes that support public schools, based on 'your' 'health care' 'ideas.'
I don't know about anyone else here, but I've been awake, nearly my entire life. Seems to me you are the one that needs to 'Wake up!" as you say. Or pull your head out.
Forty years ago a certain B-movie actor and television host named Ronald Reagan was shilling (paid, of course) for the AMA on nation-wide radio and tv against the Medicare program, claiming it would destroy American medicine. Yet today, two generations later, the argument against expanding medical care for all Americans centers on how great our current medical care is - this with probably more than half of the actual medical consumers on Medicare.
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