Interview With Man Who Had Finger Bitten Off At Town Hall (Bill Rice)
By CSPANJunkie Thursday Sep 03, 2009 6:00pm
September 03, 2009 News Corp
(Nicole) KTLA:
A 65-year-old man's finger was bitten off at a health care rally Wednesday night in Thousand Oaks, California. KTLA reports that the man was part of an anti-reform crowd:
About 100 protesters sponsored by MoveOn.org were having a rally supporting health care reform. A group of anti-health care reform protesters formed across the street.
A witness from the scene says a man was walking through the anti-reform group to get to the pro-reform side when he got into an altercation with the 65-year-old, who opposes health care reform.
The injured anti-reform man walked to Los Robles hospital to have the finger reattached.
He had Medicare. A blogger who witnessed the fight from the pro-reform side says that the finger-biter was provoked
The finger-biter fled the scene and is still at large. I don't know if I buy the whole "he punched me, so it's okay that I bit the guy's finger off" alibi, but isn't it nice to know that the guy protesting government's role in health care has Medicare to take care of his hospital bills?
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"You gave an appendage in the cause of protesting health care reform."
And then went to the hospital to be treated courtesy of his taxpayer-funded government administrated medicare plan.
irony is totally wasted on Republican(t)s! Sad really... they're so great to laugh at it'd be nice if they could join in!
He actually didn't have it re-attached because he couldn't afford it.
No, it was reported elsewhere that the doctor said not to reattach it due to the risk of infection. Now, since it is a doctor patient relationship, and a government provided one at that, we really cannot push on this issue. But the last digit of a person's left hand is not considered a neccessary appendage. ANd we do not know what other co-mobidities he is suffering from, and any possible infection allowing drugs he may be taking lowering his threshold for infection.
So you just discovered that Medicare is socialized health care? Congratulations on joining the rest of us.
As to your question, because it doesn't cover everyone. Hence, 'universal'.
"I didn't just discover that Medicare and Medicaid are socialized health care, and really don't know where you got that idea."
It would be the "So, you admit that we already have a taxpayer funded medical option." It's not like it was a big secret, so treating like it was would imply that you just figured it out.
"It doesn't cover everyone and it is going broke. How long do you think 'universal' health care would last before it's broke."
Raise taxes on those with higher incomes. Stop paying out to insurance companies. Hell, I wouldn't mind paying more in taxes to get decent insurance.
"Health care is NOT a right."
Whether something is or isn't a right is determined solely by its placement in the amendments. Hell, 'rights' are rather easily taken away for something that's supposedly inalienable.
"Canada has 'universal' health care. If you want it so bad, go get you some."
Funny that you mention them, since they pay less than we already do on health care. They also allow dual citizenship which is a rather good case for doing so.
Medicare is an underfunded government program. Iraq and Afghanistan are overfunded government programs, as are subsidies to Big Agra, tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy, etc., etc.
Understand that there is a pool of tax money to be spent, and politicians decide where it goes. Far too much goes to special interests to insure an increased profit stream AND a continued stream of campaign contributions from those special interests.
Universal health care could easily be achieved with the money that is currently spent (wasted) on private insurance profits and overhead (including advertising and lobbying congress).
Health care is a right, and should not be depend on one's financial resources. If that is truly how you feel, I sincerely hope that you lose whatever income you have and then really need health care so that you can see this from the other side.
On the other hand, if you have medicare, then you are already on a government program - benefiting from your health care rights - and you should shut the fuck up.
Love it or leave it? At least you didn't trot out "communism" and government takeovers. LOL
leave the country, since the majority of people in this country DO want want universal healthcare.
And...btw...health is a CIVIL RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE!
should be agreed on.
Siding with the HC industry smacks of fascism.
Do you even realize that you're being used by people that DO NOT CARE about providing healthcare to their customers. All they care about is PROFIT.
BUT, if it's true and not faked, that's what happens when you put your fist in someone else's FACE.
Ask Tyson. He couldn't even resist an EAR.
The other guy's probably still puking his guts out.
Too bad, though, that someone who HATES the government and government RUN ANYTHING gets to be TREATED by government RUN health care. He should get the same treatment HE would OFFER to those 22,000 who die each year for LACK of health care, NONE. NO TREATMENT until it's too late. Challenge him to treat himself or bleed to death as he would wish on OTHERS. Why does he think HIS LIFE is worth more than anyone else's?
Ha!
I wonder if the healthcare workers had the opportunity to identify his religious beliefs, to see if they were compatable with their own religious beliefs BEFORE they worked on him? I mean the pharmacist has the supposed right to not give a woman birth control if he/she feels it is against his own religious beliefs. So ANY healthcare worker can now tell you that they will not treat you because you
do or do not believe in christ, do or do not believe in Allah, do or do not beleive in Yahweh, or do not believe in any of the above.
The FRIGHTWING has created a clusterf uck of laws in many states. We need to undo these travesties of "justice" and then KILL THE GOP. Kill it dead, Cremate it. Never to darken the doorstep of American Politics again. And anyone who wishes to support or maintain it needs to be hung for treason.
a health-care worker does not have to provide any treatment that goes against their religious beliefs, but they cannot refuse treatment that they would normally do based on yours.
How is that any different, really? If your religious differences are fundamental? As a nurse, who could give a flying f@ck what anyone believes, if you would deny anyone treatment because of your beliefs then you have no business being a healthcare provider. I take excellent care of right-wing assholes all the time, to deny them otherwise is petty and childish and points to self-doubt and a conflated sense of superiority. I also care for meth heads, coke heads, alcoholics and dumb fucks and they all get excellent care. I don't agree with anything they do, but if I can't get over my loathing for what they do then the problem is mine.
of the health-care provider to not do certain types of treatment are not based on the patients beliefs, they are based on the providers belief. ie a gynecologist who is catholic and does not believe in abortion does not have to provide that treatment. And a RN with the same belief does not have to assist. It has nothing to do with the patient. They cannot discriminate based on the patient. If they provide that treatment at all, they have to provide it for all. With very very limited exceptions. Your in the medical field you should know how it works.
You started it you dumbass. You admitted sticking your fist in his mouth.
You're lucky he didn't shove your head up your ass.
You guys say you can't forgive?
Tell that to the people who are going to die because of your assinine
stance on health care. It's ok, you got yours. fuck everyone else.
Oh, that's right. You have Everyone Elses Medicare
You sir, are fuckin nuts.
HAAAAAAaaaaaaaaa! ROTFLMAO!!!
ever hear of ghost pains? hehehehehehehe. That takes a long time to go away. Enjoy asshat.
They should have put his pinky in a brown bag, wheeled him out to his car, and said good luck.
I am sick of these psychotic fascist morons.
We had an emergency staff meeting today, because the wingnuts have been ringing our principal's phone off the hook over Obama's speech to the kids on Tuesday. He started and finished the meeting by saying how stupid he felt to have to "warn" us. All of the other districts in our county banned the broadcast, but he wouldn't do it.
Every single person in the meeting could not believe it. Even the few members who are repukes were stunned.
These assholes are going to have to be dealt with sooner than later. They make me sick! Their fascist GOP heroes wrecked this country, and they are so freakin' stupid they haven't yet figured out how they are being used as dupes.
Well said!! Thank you and I second your feelings!
he have to 'warn' you about? That they were calling about the broadcast? Were there any threats made? Or just people calling about it?
come on. I'm sure it's probably the same 10 people calling over and over after Glenn Beck told them to, but people aren't even safe in churches now.
The 65yo started the altercation, so too bad for him. What the hell is a old man doing starting a fight? If anyone started something with him it would be called violence against a senior citizen and come with greater punishment.
I'd say connecting your fist to someone's face, and inadvertantly putting one of your fingers right into his mouth is entering someone's personal space.
Anyone sticks anything in my mouth (without invitation) plan on having it bitten off. No regrets: self defence. You earned it.
Fair enpough. Once you start throwing lefts and rights, don't complain if you get hurt, or if your finger gets bitten off. You're the one taking it to being physical. You might get your ass kicked, or your head kicked in. Them's the rules. No crying afterward.
feeling threatened and being threatened are two different things, and the adult response to both is to get away, to avoid physical harm or to cause it. so we have one who felt threatened (maybe) and one who was threatened (punched to the ground) resulting in a lost pinkie by a guy that might have been looking for an altercation.
personally, i find this f'n funny.
"freedom is not free" - ha ha - is he kidding? does he think this is d-day???
You do know they(the anti folks) had a megaphone and were heckling and insulting the people at the vigil, right?
People have had enough of this kinda of abuse coming from the GOPers. Get ready.
it's bad...when they start shit, it's ok...
Gettin tired of that shit too.
Ted Nugent!!
didn't he pay for his hospital visit without using that horrible, socialized Medicare? Since he's such an unhypocritical guy.
And I'm sure he's completely unaware of the vast irony of his situation.
but those winners tend to have to accept posthumously.
Anyone here old enough to remember Conrad Dobler of the St. Louis Cardinals (yes, there was a team there before the Rams)? He was widely regarded as "the dirtiest player in football". He was once accused of biting a defensive lineman's finger. His response? "I wear a full-face, four-tiered facemask. What was his finger doing close enough to my mouth to get bit?" His implication was that there was a little eye gouging or fish hooking going on. (I once had my calf bitten during a pile up, so it does happen).
On a more serious note, I really, really, REALLY don't grasp how someone who is on Medicare finds the motivation to go protest OTHER people getting health care coverage. It can't be on principle; HE'S covered by a big, bad government-sponsored health care system. Best guess? It's the "I got mine, screw you" generation. Is this what Tom Brokaw was talking about?
are telling the folks on Medicare the funds for them will be given to "the undeserving poor" and illegals.
Palin, hell, the whole Republican party, for creating the scare in the seniors then loading them up with lies. They are showing the foreign terrorists that they were very effective, aided by a suspect administration, in creating the post 911 mentality. They are aiding and abetting the nations enemies.
Here's a really great article by Donna Smith from the California Nurses Association on that subject, "All Politics Is Local":
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/09/03-0
But damn, they are easy to manipulate. I guess its hard for progressives to get down in the mud!
of lots of elderly people. Load them up on enough meds and they get slow and numb. There also seems to be a natural propensity toward anxiety as we age. It's a shame that some people would use that to push their bullshit agenda.
This jerk is too young. He is more like the 50's bully Biff from Back to the Future. Did you notice him smirk a bit after saying he would run away if he ever saw that guy again? He knew that would sound good on TV; that's all.
I think not. The guy is 65. That makes him born in 1944. This D-bag was 23 years old during the Summer of Love.
They'll never get that finger food dude...lack of evidence. Lol.
This man should have been dogged all the way to the hospital wherein people could have offered to save the taxpayer's money and sew his finger on in the parking lot.
If it weren't illegal, I'd think the practice of removing limbs from anti-reformers to be a great way to segue them into practicing what they preach.
Then they can also be rounded up on the Free-Stater, self funded VW bus trip to Siberia wherein they can show us how they run a social system without mutual civic responsibility.
He punches the man twice, then complains because he threw his fist into the man's mouth and the man bite? Then after protesting against socialized healthcare, goes to the hospital with his socialized healthcare and has his hand fixed. He is an idiot. Will end up blaming the guy for getting his teeth in the way of his fist.
Cavuto is actually funny as hell!!!
I found myself laughing outloud thinking, "This is like a stupid skit from SNL!"
Bill says the real heroes are overseas blah blah, Cavuto says "god bless", OMG Reich TV at its finest.
This is why you never hit someone during sex.
Now, what I find curious is that police is supposed to arrest the aggressor, not the person who acted in self defense and this idiot admits to attacking the guy. Why wasn't he charged?
Its almost as if theres a link between local fascists and local fascists.
The reason I don't hit anyone during sex...
Never entered my mind, to be honest: seems incongruous.
if you say the wrong name--scary!
Notice how every "Joe the DumbFu##" gets air time on Fox News to continue the current right wing idiotic meme.
What a total f*cking idiot. Such a "saintly ass hole".
Yeah...turn and run you moron. What a douchebag.
...he'd be able to pleasure himself tonight.
I just don't believe what makes news on the propaganda network sometimes. This is the dumbest of dumb-downs.
So, he "gave an appendage in the cause of protesting health care reform."?
If these Bozo's get their way, in the future many will be sacrificing an organ or two to the rich so they can get permission to live.
After two punches to the mouth, the guy still bit his pinky off.
Well, now he can drink tea in fashion.
Nine Fingers
They interviewed me and one of the guys from the other side. I appreciated their willingness to let me emphasize how stupid and out of control things are. You can find their video here: http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/besto...
I was listening to Randi Rhodes (again,lunchtime) and she was discussing this. A caller said he was there and saw the whole thing.
According to the caller, the anti group was yelling insults to the pro group. Is that true? Were they being their usual insulting self?
Were they trying to intimidate people?
The caller also said this guy in black was trying to pass thru the anti folks, and they gave him a hard time. The caller actually called the anti guy in the interview a liar.
Thanks again. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
to what actually happened. i am sure more will pop up in the future. thanks for the post as all this is extremely interesting.
from what do you suppose he believes the health care debate is being used by obama to divert attention? is this another "wag the dog"/desert fox republican meme being passed around out there in the glenn beck circles?
With the Republican'ts idea of battle (Cheney's 5 deferments) I see a purple heart medal in this guy's future.
this moron the finger!
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How in the hell can you get your finger bitten off? It is not like the guy was feeding crocodiles or anything. You would have to have your finger in someone's mouth pretty far and the biter would need some mighty powerful teeth and jaws.
Franky, I would be a bit leery about even making myself known if someone bit off my finger during a protest. Seems a bit embarrassing to me.
if I'm not mistook...
More than enough to crush through a pinky finger especially if the molars are used...
He admitted throwing the first AND second punches!
I can just see the lawyers. Oh Noesssssssssssss. Don't say that!
I'll leave for an open thread.
Depends on what type of lawyer (an ambulance chaser) or public defender, big difference as I see it!
with Bill's fingers in his mouth. prob after his punched him a second time as he lay on the ground.
according to the blog that I think your referring to, he was knocked down and got back up, and then got in the guys face again.
And the laws in that state, in my state it may be legal to throw the first punch. Depending on several things opportunity, intent, and ability, if the person is standing in your face (opportunity), saying they are going to beat your ass(intent) and they aren't apparently unable to do so(ability) you are allowed to use self defense. You do not have to let them get the first shot in.
Watch out for Liberals - they bite!
have a problem sticking appendages in orifices where they don’t belong!
Good one. LOL!
...of this loser's life.
Enjoy your martyrdom.
You put up a vid of a Fox News broadcast without any context of what he is saying or how Fox News is spinning. Some people are at work and cannot listen to the vid. Please, where is your usual professionalism? Give us some context of the content of the video. Crooks and Liars is usually wonderful at this. What happened?
If I had an address I would send a picture of a finger to this hero..
He declined herohoodship and deferred to the troops in Iraq and Afganistan as the heros, I assume because in his mind they are fighting health care reform there so we dont have to fight it here. I am staggered and can only up my tribute to two fingers waving proudly from the middle of both of my hands to this milquetoast medicated d0uchebag.
he'll be jumping up and down to give those vets their "socialized" health and mental care when they return. He's gum on their shoes.
I can give you ten reasons why you want health care reform. He can only give you nine against it.
I wonder if the cannabal turned into a imbecile after the bite. After all you are what you eat.
And this little piggy went wee wee wee all the way to the hospital. In a bag of ice.
he could have bitten off his own toe!
This ain't over. They'll get worse,again.
I smell a liberal church shooting coming again.
He's lucky his opponent wasn't armed with an assault rifles. Open and shut case of self defense.
Or with a concealed or in a holster. We just had a discussion about something like this and a certain gun person said if someone raised his hands and tried to harm him, he'd shoot him. Yep, a certain gun person who comments here.
referring to me? It sounds similar to something I might have posted on here. But I don't feel like checking back to see if I did. But yes if someone comes at me unprovoked and attempts to do me harm, I will attempt to back off while drawing, if they continue to advance there is a chance I will fire. If I get into an argument, and yelling leads to shoving leads to punching I will not use a lethal weapon, unless the other person attempts to do so first. But while I am carrying I do my best to avoid that sort of thing, if a disagreement seems like it is going to escalate I will withdraw.
Without knowing all the facts in this case and the laws in that locality, I can't say if it would be legal, but from what I've read probably not, finger biter approached the other guy and started an argument, so the punch was not totally unprovoked, depending on what was said. And if the guy did not attempt to retreat or remove himself from the fight he would be considered a consensual combatant. In my state you cannot use lethal force in a situation like this sounds to be.
You'd probably be arrested for murder.
Lethal self-protection in the home is generally legal, not so much in the public, especially if the other combatant is unarmed. Whassamatter, you got a sissy punch?
It is legal to draw and point a firearm at someone if you believe they are going to use unlawful use of force.
And for using the firearm
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
If I have a firearm pointed at someone (legally) and they continue to advance I would have a reasonable belief of serious bodily injury.
But yes for a home or occupied vehicle the restrictions on deadly force are more lenient.
And its not a matter of having a sissy punch, I'm not going to get into a fist fight while armed because of the chance of being disarmed while in the fight.
How about just injuring them. Like, shoot them in the foot.
And for your information, these anti folks were heckling and insulting the pro folks across the street who were holding a candlelight vigil. Rowdy folks them pro healthcare folks.
You'd shoot someone before throwing a punch? You're unhinged, brother, seek help.
With all this hubbub over healthcare, and with all the vehement hatred coming from the conservatives. Would you consider this a threatening situation? If you were a Democrat. Not as a Conservative. You see where I'm going with this?
If you were a Democrat, and you were at a rally, and you were confronted with (how shall I put this) an emotionally upset angry person from the right,(as has been the case now for a few months) would you feel threatened? Would you feel the need to use deadly force if one of these people came at you, yelling and getting in your face?
I agree, just leave. But you could do that anyway. W/O carrying. Which would be the wiser thing to do. Then if they continue, you beat their ass until they're in submission. mentally, of course.
"I'm not going to get into a fist fight while armed because of the chance of being disarmed while in the fight."
Maybe ya shouldn't carry a gun around all the time...
That's ANOTHER thing that's wrong with people in this country.
People are afraid to get their butts whupped in a fistfight.
I remember, not long ago, when folks had issues, and all attempts at reason and rationality failed.
They'd just beat the crap out of each other...now it's "I'm gonna shoot you in the face for talkin shit to me"
WTF?
for deadly force, it doesn't matter where you shoot them, it is all considered deadly force. Actually using a knife, bat, or just about anything other than bare fists is considered deadly force. And heckling and insults are no reason for use of any kind of physical violence.
And in the situation you described I can't really answer, there are too many variables. Whats he yelling? How exactly is he getting in my face? Was he screaming he was going to beat my ass? Kill me? Put me in the hospital? Was he just standing there waving his arms while doing so? Or was he waving a fist in my face? Or cocking his arm back like he was going to throw a punch? But I disagree that it is wiser not to carry than to carry.
LNM
I remember that time too. I'm not afraid of getting my ass beat, I've had it done more than enough. Hell I've gotten into "fights" with friends just messing around and had my ass beat worse than any real fight I've been in. I learned to never bare knuckle box with a ex golden gloves boxer that has 4-5 inches and 50 lbs on you. But he was amazed that I kept getting up. He said he never seen anyone take abuse like that and still keep just popping back up. But what you mentioned is one of the reasons I'm not going to get into a fight nowadays. It doesn't just stop with getting your butt whupped.
ETA case in point, several years back I could of legally shot someone, it was a acquaintance of mine sorta, my girlfriend and his were friends. He got the idea one night when he was drunk that I was trying to sleep with his gf, he comes over and starts kicking my door in, I had a loaded 12 ga sitting under the couch I was sitting on, plenty of time to grab it before he got in the door, I even thought about it. He was a good bit bigger than me, but I knew he was drunk and that I could restrain him or if not the worst that would happen most likely would be a butt whuppin. He got in one decent punch then I tied him up until he got tired and was willing to leave. He apologized the next day and offered to pay for the damages to the door. Under the laws of my state I would of been legally immune for using deadly force, I weighed my options and choose not to. Now if it was a stranger kicking in my door? They would of got a round or 3 of number 4 buck as soon as the door opened.
C'mon man, you know what I'm talkin about.
With all the hatred and threats of violence and in some cases, actual violence occurring, some resulting in death. If you were a Dem, would you feel threatened? Due to the current state of affairs? You know, with the way some of the conservatives are acting at these town hall meetings and rally's. If you were a Dem, would you feel threatened? You've had time to think about it.
And this too many variables is a cop out. It's a pretty straight forward question.
I'm off to work, I'll check back later. Have a nice one.
conservative or a Dem, I think I would feel the same way. No I don't believe I would feel threatened.
Go to one of those town hall meeting with a pro health care sign, just as an experiment, and get back to me. Hell, you don't even need the sign. Just say something pro health care. And let me know what kind of looks you get, or, whatever happens to you. OK?
too far apart, otherwise I would take you up on that, on the condition that you took the opposite side as well. But I'm not going to appear to be for something I'm not, and add strength to the other side, without a balancing influence.
But honestly I think you would get the worst side of it, how many cases of conservative started physical violence at the town halls can you find? Where on the dem side, there is the guy in St. Louis who was attacked and what was it 3 or 4 liberals were arrested? And the recent case where the liberal crossed the street to accost a conservative, and when the cons. reacted(possibly in preventative self-defense), got part of his finger bitten off. Or this one here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sCqC6cdxgU&NR=1 Starting about 3 min in. I keep hearing about how violent we conservatives are, but it seems like all the violence starts on the other side.
With all the angry rhetoric coming from the GOP and fux nooz. You actually think the Dems are the ones resorting to violence?
I suppose you don't remember the THM in Virginia? The one where the conservative walked up to a pro healthcare person, ripped the sign right out of his hands, and punched him in the face.
really Tim, I can't believe to took that tack.
So I'll take that as a no.
the video clip of someone taking a sign from someone else and throwing it on the ground as they walked away, but I don't remember anything about them getting punched in the face. But I'll take your word for it, so that's 1 to 3, have any more? Violence I'm sure has happened on both sides. But it seems strange that the majority of it hitting the news is stemming from the liberal side, when the majority of the MSM is left leaning.
And for the angry rhetoric, words are just words, remember this old saw "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" And the liberal side keeps claiming that the conservatives are calling for violence, when most of what I've heard is just calling for people to get out and get heard. And for peaceful protests. That is on the MSM, when you start talking about blogs and forums that does change, but it shows up on both sides.
this particular thread is in itself a testimony to the repugnant behavior at these THm's. You know it, and so do I.
see ya next time.
You have a good one until then.
do you really see the world as that menacing?
Every time I read what you write it's all about someone threatening you or your family, as if that happened on a regular basis.
I have a friend who was carjacked, kidnapped, threatened with death if she raised her head, driven around by the thugs while they robbed a convenience store, and almost raped by one of them. They then jumped out of the car before it crashed, leaving her in the car while it crashed. When the dust settled and she felt it was safe to raise her head she ran to the police car and they thought she was with the criminals, thankfully they didn't turn the police canines loose on her. She's far less fearful than you. You appear to be continually on the lookout for drama.
I honestly cannot wrap my head around the thought process that drives someone to always carry a gun. Are you that scared of your fellow citizens? Really?
BTW, as I've said before - I'm FOR gun rights - if you like them - have them. Makes no difference to me. But personally, I abhor them and have never had a need or want to possess one.
see the world as that menacing. Nor am I fearful. But I am realistic about the kinds of people that are in the world. Such as the ones that your friend unfortunately ran into. But what if your friend was armed and trained? Yes she could of ended up getting killed, but so could of the scum. I'd rather take my chances on myself than on some scums good will.
And while I attempt to be continually on the lookout, its not for drama. It is to avoid it. The vast majority of criminals look for an easy mark, someone that looks weak and inattentive. They see someone who appears confident and alert they will usually look for someone else.
"They see someone who appears confident and alert they will usually look for someone else."
You don't need to carry a gun to be confident and alert.
you don't need to carry to be confident and alert. But I am more confident in my ability to protect myself and my family, against an armed aggressor, or even several unarmed ones while carrying.
And like I said usually, there are exceptions. And I'm not willing to risk my families life or my chance of coming home to them safe on chance, when it can be avoided.
I consider carrying a firearm on par with having smoke detectors and fire extinguishers in your home, or a first aid kit. Hopefully I will never need them, but just because its unlikely that I will have a house fire, doesn't mean I'm not going to have them.
Legal self defense has to be proportional to the situation.
This will probably spur more weapons to show up at demonstrations and when anger gets a grip (and some of those folks are showing up already really riled up), things will quickly escalate to serious or fatal levels.
Unfortunately CNN calls the doofus who lost his pinky "the victim", and you know that when the biter is flushed out he'll be tarred and feathered on FOX and CNN as the bad boy, even though he was defending himself. And when someone swings at you bare-knuckles, the Marquis de Queensbury rules are out the window.
Metaphorically though, I'd like to think that this is a wake-up call to all liberals and progressives who have endured being brow-beaten and intimidated by these brainless droids that have been sent out by corporate America to destroy health care reform. The Allies tried to appease one madman back in the '30's and had to go to war to finally stop him. This is war and Mr. Obama, it's time for you to be a leader!
He got his finger bitten off! You don't do that, no matter what the provocation. That is the kind of thing you would expect from the astroturfers. This is all they needed. We're supposed to be better than this.
People can only take so much. This is one instance.
And after all the killing lately(of liberals) I say fuckem. He had it coming. Granted, biting his finger off is over the top. But a good ass whuppin was in order.
People are running out of patience. They're fed up.
It's only going to get worse.
Obama can call for civility, but it won't do any good.
It has to come from the right. From Billo and Hannity and beck and from the GOP leadership. I don't see them stepping up to calm any of this down. No, they're letting it fuel itself. I hold them responsible.
prob threw the second punch right handed, while he had his left hand's fingers in the blokes mouth, thats how I see the silly accidental scenario playing out.
Biting is not a natural or normal thing to want to do, accident or fear.
is a natural thing to do, it takes training to ignore that natural impulse. Look at toddlers, they get upset and they kick punch and bite.
like protesting government healthcare when you use government healthcare, eh? Childish.
hearing people on here say he had medicare, the only source that states that is the one that say he had his finger reattached. If they can't get that right what makes you think they had his insurance right?
I never advocate violence of ANY kind - ever. But enough is enough - seems to me this is the only thing these cretins will understand - they called down the thunder - so here it is. Deal with it.
"Billo and Hannity and beck and from the GOP leadership. I don't see them stepping up to calm any of this down. No, they're letting it fuel itself. I hold them responsible."
They ARE responsible - the whole goddamn MSM is responsible. Not to mention cheering on an illegal,immoral war, built on lies (when they knew the truth, or maybe not, that's another thread, but it was at best,irresponsible).
We should be ashamed as a nation that this kind of shit is allowed to pollute our airways (Beck, Limpbaugh, et all). I know, I know - 1st amendment, free speech and all that - but honestly - this kind of talks benefits and helps who, exactly?
and we need to realise that and quit acting like we're better. Smug and self satisfied as if our farts were rose scented.
We're all the same, human beings, and we all have the same wiring.
Saying we're supposed to be better than that reminds me of that fucking line of heinous bullshit we used to get during Nam and that was that the Vietnamese weren't like us, didn't love their family members like we did, and that made it ok for us to waste their country, men, women and children, because assholes went around and dehumanised them.
As long as long as human beings view their opponents as lesser beings, we will always have this kind of bullshit, wars and hate and violence against each other.
That guy smashed the biter in the face twice. He said his little finger ended up in the guy's mouth on punch #2. In other words but for his own self admitted actions... Quite frankly, if he'd slugged me, he'd be having a serious rupture repaired. I have no problem fighting back. And I'd press charges and sue the old mofo into the poor house.
Your farts are not rose scented? I'm shocked. I thought everyone here...
And for the most part, I still do. But not entirely.
With all the bs that's happened in the last year, I'm not willing to say that we're not better than they are.
The Teabaggers, The Townhall mettings, The shootings, The election rally's with people yelling "Kill Him"?
Palin and her nonsense.
Limbaugh, O'Lielly, Beck? (That guy is seriously deranged)
Hannity and all the out right lies every Sunday (and the rest of the week for that matter).
People have died because of these imbeciles.
I realize that I'm generalizing. That There are alot of rational thinking moderate conservatives. I wish they would speak up more and louder.
And I understand that the left isn't innocent as well.
This has gone too far.
But this isn't the first time this kinda thing has happened.
The level of hatred the GOP has for us and the Democratic party is disconcerting. Those people are down right nuts.
And I agree entirely. The nature of the left is that we(I'm speaking in generalities as well) are humanitarians and pacifists. But you're right, speaking for myself,I've had quite enough - these "people" hate us and wish us harm - there is no reasoning with them - NONE. THEY unleashed this - so don't cry when it bites you on the ass.
the finger!
we don't know what really transpired between those two individuals.
here's some non finger video of the event:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-a5vjxMZFU
They only get to punch the lib in the mouth, and they loose an appendage. I think they underestimated the Leftie, and this could set others to take a second look at their hardcore stance.
we need to rebrand Private Health Insurance into "CORPORATECARE"
Cold corporatecare will do you in.
Cold corporatecare will put a corporation between you and your doctor
Cold corporatecare will make you wait for APPROVALS and AUTHORIZATINOS from overseas operators who now see your personal information and know more about you than your spouse.
Cold corporatecare worries about no one except their SHAREHOLDERS
Cold corporatecare wants you dead AFTER you pay your premium for the month
Cold corporatecare could care less about you as a human, it is a COPORATION, what do you expect?
n/t
um... he plainly states that his finger "ended up in the guys mouth" while he was, again admittedly, punching him repeatedly in the face. Cut and dry self defense. If you want to keep your fingers, you don't punch someone repeatedly in the face, clear?
on what was said, the guy who's finger was bitten off may have had "a cut and dry self defense" case, also depending on the state law. In my state if someone comes up and says they are going to hit me and I have reasonable belief they may do so, I can use reasonable force to stop them. They cannot, because they started it, self defense cannot be claimed in an unlawful act. Just the threat of hitting someone in a non self defense situation is a crime (assault).
Sounds like old-west style "self defense". In the mining towns someone would get drunk and announce to the world that they were going to kill so-and-so. The next day so-and-so would shoot down the no longer drunk loudmouth without warning. In the subsequent trial, this was found to be reasonable self-defense (on more than one occasion). Too bad some states haven't progressed beyond that primitive notion.
shades of common sense. If someone comes up to me and says they are going to beat my ass and I have a reasonable belief that they are serious. I'm not going to wait until they actually swing before I take action. If someone pulls a knife on you, are you going to wait until you get stabbed before you defend yourself? Same thing.
Difference between your scenario and what happened, A guy walks up to me and says they are going to kill me, he appears to be serious about it, and I have no idea if he's armed, yes I will take action perhaps not lethal force but I will take some form of action. Now if some guy is drunk running his mouth the night before, and I see him I won't confront him nor shoot him. The laws were a bit different back then. And it also depended on the persons reputation, if they had a habit of making good on their threats, I could see it being legal self defense.
We are finger-biting idiots. We are no better. Our blogs are full of crappily-edited bullshit. Americans, left or right, are brought up to believe they are ki8ngs and queens of the world. You are not. Left or right, violence is not the answer. You are stupidly playing their game. You are all the same.
Most groups usually have folks that are significantly better than the norm and folks that are significantly worse. In judging a group we need to be aware of both the norm and the outliers. As such, "you are all the same" is no more accurate than "we're better than that".
NORM!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD9cWETT6eE
Thanks for commenting.
Let's just lay down and let them run roughshod over us. Not me, my friend, not anymore... THEY started this "game" as you call it. Fine. Let's play...
"Gov't Care Supporter" which to the average half asleep faux drooler,
makes it seem like one of Obama's henchmen did it.
Government Healthcare Client bitten by Government Healthcare Supporter
What the fuck did anyone expect? Considering the town hall of repugnant fruitcakes running around you didn't think one "left wing" asshole who had been provoked wouldn't go for broke??!!! These people have no shame, no sense of decency and no self worth. Want to drag the crazies out? Be my fucking guest! Their on "our" side too!
and so are the rest of the knuckleheads who are supposedly thinking this ass is a hero for giving up his finger to fight healthcare reform.
Remember, these are the same people who defend others who shoot people in the back and kill them for starting fights, like this guy did. To them, it's lucky the finger biter didn't have a gun.
You know why the guy has forgiveness in his heart? He's guilty of assault, and he knows it.
You know why the guy has forgiveness in his heart? He's guilty of assault, and he knows it.
Totally. He knows he's cooked and is trying to lay down a little groundwork for leniency.
What is with all the swearing lately? I know it is very frustrating to deal with stupid people, but using their language is not the way to the win.
Long delays in ER rooms, people suffering and dying on the floors there, the large public hospitals in cities, the VA hospitals.
And what do these showcase examples of shoddy health care all have in common, and in contrast to the better hospitals.
The shoddy ones are run by administrators along corporate MBA accounting lines, penny pinching and paring to the bone of services and personal, for the glory of the bean counters.
Its a failure of standards and the reason of why hospitals exist, ie they exist for their customers aka the patients, not the bottom line or some admin report.
Along with providing care for everybody without fear of bankruptcy or denial of care, is national standards and enforcing of ethics in administration, and adequate staffing levels.
We need a multiple shakeup of our healthcare industry. Fixing just one aspect of the problem is foolish and will be very wasteful, all problems need to be fixed, bring US healthcare up to European levels.
Their language? That's fucking ridiculous.
Please don't lecture.
Assault charges be filed against what's his name...? Mr "9-Finger".
He actually admits touching the other guy first twice in the form of aggressive fist throwing. In a sense the other guy was trying to protect himself.
Until the biter comes or is brought forward there'll be no charges.
Left or right, pro or con, I don't care what was said by who. After the first blow to my face (which can inflict permanent damage and even fatal head trauma if you hit the pavement), my reaction would be "WTF". I would not respond in kind. After the second blow to my face, if I was still conscious, I would be forced to defend myself and bludgeon the attacker. Mercilessly. By right of self defense. This guy gets off easy with just a missing pinky fingernail.
I'm not an ObamaCare fan. I think Obama's Chicago School credentials are showing, and he is selling me out, one lowered expectation after another. But this crap isn't about any "debate". This is what civil war looks like in it's early stages. No one wants that, but if it comes, don't expect me to cower from the almighty righties. Mistaking liberal open-mindedness for weakness will be a big, big mistake.
It's about time the bullshit stops! These knuckle draggers have been dragging down the whole country for almost 50 years now and is time we put a stop to it. Even if it is one finger at a time. Guess which one I am holding up republicans?
republicanism is a mental illness!
...this put a bit of a crimp in this particular moron's knuckledragging!
[badoom boom *kiisssh!*]
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