Cheney Demanded To Use US Troops To Arrest US Citizens To Destroy The Constitution
By CSPANJunkie Sunday Jul 26, 2009 11:00am
July 25, 2009 MSNBC.
From The New York Times--Bush Weighed Using Military in Arrests:
WASHINGTON — Top Bush administration officials in 2002 debated testing the Constitution by sending American troops into the suburbs of Buffalo to arrest a group of men suspected of plotting with Al Qaeda, according to former administration officials.
Some of the advisers to President George W. Bush, including Vice President Dick Cheney, argued that a president had the power to use the military on domestic soil to sweep up the terrorism suspects, who came to be known as the Lackawanna Six, and declare them enemy combatants.
Mr. Bush ultimately decided against the proposal to use military force.
A decision to dispatch troops into the streets to make arrests has few precedents in American history, as both the Constitution and subsequent laws restrict the military from being used to conduct domestic raids and seize property.
The Fourth Amendment bans “unreasonable” searches and seizures without probable cause. And the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 generally prohibits the military from acting in a law enforcement capacity.
Though it received very little press attention, it is not hyperbole to observe that this October 23 Memo was one of the most significant events in American politics in the last several decades, because it explicitly declared the U.S. Constitution -- the Bill of Rights -- inoperative inside the U.S., as applied to U.S. citizens. Just read what it said in arguing that neither the Fourth Amendment -- nor even the First Amendment -- can constrain what the President can do when overseeing "domestic military operations" (I wrote about that Memo when it was released last March and excerpted the most revealing and tyrannical portions: here).
All of this underscores why it is so important to vigorously oppose the efforts of the Obama administration (a) to continue many of the radical Bush/Cheney Terrorism programs and even to implement new ones (preventive detention, military commissions, extreme secrecy policies, warrantless surveillance, denial of habeas corpus) and (b) to endorse the core Orwellian premise that enables all of that (i.e., the "battlefield" is anywhere and everywhere; the battle against Terrorism is a "War" like the Civil War or World War II and justifies the same powers). By itself, the extreme injustice imposed by our Government on the individuals subjected to such tyrannical powers (i.e., those held in cages for years without charges or any prospect for release) should be sufficient to compel firm opposition. But the importance of these issues goes far beyond that. Even if the original intention is to use these powers in very limited circumstances and even for allegedly noble purposes ("only" for Guantanamo detainees who were tortured, "only" for people shipped to Bagram, "only" for the Most Dangerous Terrorists), it's extremely dangerous to implement systems and vest the President with powers that depart from, and violently betray, our core precepts of justice.
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We already knew that they thought the constitution was a qaint piece of paper.
If they could have gotten away with it we would be even more fucked then we are now!
republicanism is a mental illness!
Dem, GOP centrists meet in secret
(so the republicans together with the republican democrats are controlling our government and policies still...)
So what do people mean when they say that the democrats control the senate , house and Presidency.. It is all a bunch of BS>>
June 17, 2009
Centrist House lawmakers from both sides of the aisle are working together " privately " on healthcare reform.
The talks have been ""so secretive and politically sensitive"" that some members interviewed by The Hill ""refused to name other legislators"" involved in the bipartisan effort.
Members of the centrist GOP “Tuesday Group,” the New Democrat Coalition and the 52-member Blue Dog Coalition have been discussing both the policies and politics of moving their middle-of-the-road ideas in a body of Congress usually dominated by liberal or conservative ideology.
Noting that some members could be retaliated against by their leaders, some lawmakers declined to mention to whom they were talking. Rep. Patrick Tiberi (R-Ohio) said that he wouldn’t “throw [Blue Dogs] under the bus” by revealing the identities of his Democratic colleagues.
Obama is the third term of Bush/Cheney.
The change and transparent government I can not see.
The Iraq war there is not change ...
Afghanistan has increased in number of soldiers and violence , death day by day..
We are still threading Iran..
N. Korea is growing in their nuke war missile programs.
Illegal spying is still alive and well , now Obama is adding a program to control and censor the internet.
The Global Banking Empire has receive all of Americans money , plus what the government has placed on a credit card in our name.
The war contractors are still doing fine.
The attorney general is still a puppet for the administration and republicans..
The military is receiving larger portions or our national funds while American lose the social programs , their jobs and homes..
American jobs and manufacturing is still being outsourced overseas. So how in the h... can Obama and Emanuel say with a straight face that they have policies to help our economy and American workers.
Obama is now outsourcing our government contracts to overseas nation and countries like Canada , Britain , Germany , China , India and others countries..
Some of these jobs they are receiving are paid by OUR TAX MONEY straight from the horses mouth ''The White House"..
Our tax money is also aiding corporations to move our jobs overseas.
Now the health Empire is writing our health program which we will be forced to have and pay for.
Dem, GOP centrists meet in secret
June 17, 2009
Centrist House lawmakers from both sides of the aisle are working together " privately " on healthcare reform.
The talks have been ""so secretive and politically sensitive"" that some members interviewed by The Hill ""refused to name other legislators"" involved in the bipartisan effort.
Members of the centrist GOP “Tuesday Group,” the New Democrat Coalition and the 52-member Blue Dog Coalition have been discussing both the policies and politics of moving their middle-of-the-road ideas in a body of Congress usually dominated by liberal or conservative ideology.
Noting that some members could be retaliated against by their leaders, some lawmakers declined to mention to whom they were talking. Rep. Patrick Tiberi (R-Ohio) said that he wouldn’t “throw [Blue Dogs] under the bus” by revealing the identities of his Democratic colleagues.
how much do you think YOU could get done in 6 months?
Dick. Cheney. Is. Insane.
Sociopathic, sure...but not insane.
Buffalo or Baghdad, it's all the same to the corporate war criminals.
Ya, it's Global Corporo-Fascism.
To the previously silent but now vocal conservative traitors to this country, the US government is only bad if it's led by a commie n****r.
but now silent liberal traitors? (who still love Obama) even though he has flip flopped on just about everything...and have no problem with a commander in chief who voted to re-authorise the patriot act, and gave immunity to telecom companies for wiretapping, and voted for a bankster bailout with no oversite provisions...
(govt is only bad if it's run by a cracker)
Last I checked we're pretty vocal about Obama's egregious continuations of Bush policies. I can be happy that he's doing something about government health care, ecstatic that he's actually making some push on global warming, and violently offended when he continues an abomination of a domestic policy like this.
I repeat--I'm still plenty vocal when Obama does things wrong, and I'm pretty sure this site is as well, as are other "liberal" sites I frequent. Just because people praise him when he does something right doesn't mean we're "in the tank."
And in case you were wondering why nobody ever said anything about the good stuff Bush did, that's because he didn't DO anything good. Kind of impressive when you think about it.
...why nobody ever said anything about the good stuff Bush did.
...cuz I hate Bush...I'm mostly liberaltarian...dont like Obama either...
That's cool...glad your critical of Obama.
The entire Bush-Cheney presidency should be investigated on all fronts. They almost killed America.
Investigated.
Arrested.
Renditioned.
Interrogated by Bush-approved methods.
Sent to the Hague.
Tried for war crimes.
Convicted if proven, executed if guilty.
We shouldn't sink to their level.
We can't hold the moral high ground if we do the same thing we're wanting to prosecute them for.
Just send the to the Hague with all the evidence (or at least certified copies of it) and let the chips fall where they may.
Believe me, there is much impetus over here to see justice take it's course with these cretins.
where's "over here"?
You overseas?
I live in London now.
Riding a decaying empire down was not my idea of the good life.
sure, Voldemort and the "Chimptser" were looking (salivating) for any way to throw down some martial law and take over the country but... Obama will have his turn...
Swine flu is coming this fall and it looks like forced vaccinations are a possibility...(and not everyone will like that) Quarantines and roadblocks...
U.S. Troops and blackwater security in New Orleans was just a test...
I can't afford to have the flu, when I can't sing I can't work. I doubt that people will be dying of it on any greater numbers than usual, though.
You sound a little scared of everything.
I really don't think Obama's gonna be the one to do that shit. Sure, he's done, or rather HASN'T done the things he said he was gonna do, but he's not gonna be the 1st AA president, AND declare martial law, no...I'm thinkin he wants his ist term to be as smooth as possible depsite all the crazy shit goin on.
Forced vaccinations? WTF? Where are you getting this shit?
must be a lie cuz I didn't see aany discussion of it on the talk shows today.
It appears that the U.S. was a hair-breadth away from becoming a dictatorship. And my beloved Canada from becoming a Vichy-like puppet. Or at least more of one.
I know this may amount to foreign agitating, but Mr. Cheney needs a jail cell.
hair breadth ...... what ? It IS already, it's just the vast majority of the sheeple are asleep and far too busy telling the rest of the world how amazing they are.
Nice to see them getting what the deserve really.
I don't want to read another Dick Chaney or Dumya Bush headline without a firm commitment to bring them both to justice.
I think our suspensions were right all along..Cheney and company had every intention in declaring martial law in response to a second major terrorist attack within the U.S. I suppose we have to be thankful for whatever reasons it didn't happen. It's a sad world knowing that the powers of the previous administration secretly/overtly wish for another terrorist attack so that their legacy can be at least salvaged in their narrow american exceptionalistic views.
Yes, yet they continue to walk free and corrupt the system of government from the sidelines.
...too many people were already on to the fact that Cheney was one of the people involved in the execution of 911.
Hmm.. has the Thermate data collected by the good doctor been verified by anyone yet? let's not give the bandit more credit than he's due.
And I agree..these clowns need to be sent to Leavenworth, post-haste..
That wasn't the big news this weekend - it was the all white Media talking about the Obama "reaction" to the Gates situation. Who knew the media wouldn't be concerned about challenges to the US constitution and would instead focus on a vain media-created distraction story?
THIS VERY TOPIC is a distraction...
How many reasons should Chimpster and King Voldemort Vader be in jail, (let us count the ways)
...possible involvement in the Enron scandal...
...possible involvement in 9/11...
...patriot act...
...military comissions act...
...starting a war of agression with Iraq/Afghanistan on false pretenses...
...Abu Graib...
...Katrina...
...wiretapping...
...secret assasination program...
...Plame scandal...
someone finish it for me....
Well, don't forget the commission of torture and murder to obtain false confessions about the lies they perpetrated to engage in a war of aggression for profit.
So i guess that's:
* torture
* murder
* war profiteering
I can't believe I forgot the ole' Torture/Rendition thing...
I knew there were a few more!
...torture at Baghram....
I just made a copy of the list and sent it to the White House website.
suspicions not suspensions oops
Woo's name coming again being the one to authorize the annulment of the Constitution. I say Wow Woo and you have the nerve to show your plump face in public.
Yoo.
...the re-authorisation of the patriot act and immunity for the telecoms who were wiretapping Americans...
(2 constitutional violations)
...and he still shows his face in public!!!?
that you get off that subject. If he hadn't voted for them, he would have been labeled as not wanting to protect our country and it could have cost him the election. Their are things that have to be changed that the previous administration instigated and perhaps those will be some of them. You need to get over it for now.
BS.
You could be right. The time will come.
I noticed that Glenn states that the US was a defacto dictatorship by definition from Oct 2002 until Jan 16th 2009.
What makes him think anything has changed?
I like Obama loads better than Shrub, but he's not really bringing on any change I can believe in. Sure in superficial matters he's working to make some change but where Executive power and privilege are concerned it's just a continuation of the last 8 years.
Not to mention the continuation of renditions and torture. Now it's just done on the QT over in US occupied territories instead of right offshore.
Boise officers put a taser inside a suspect's anus—who was already handcuffed—and fired it. Here's a tape. (Warning: Strong audio violence).
Cop: Do you feel this?
...sometime I wish David Niewert would go on a vendetta against bad cops instead of the Neo-Nazi fixation he has had lately...
...a good investigation by Niewert into violent cops might turn up a lot of the fascist Nazi bastards that are employed as police...
...who is training these bastard cops...school of the Americas or something?
Blackwater (XE)-no joke.
Scary, huh?
just read an article today at www.rawstory.com about a man who was tased in the buttocks by the Boise (ID) police department. He was on the floor on his stomach, handcuffed with three officers sitting on his back. Another police officer tased him and then threatened to tase him in his "balls."
It was investigated, I think, by the Boise PD. An ombudsman issued a statement that the police officer didn't do anything illegal. Technically that might be correct, however, there should be some such charge as "excessive use of force."
Scary, yes indeed.
The officers did NOT sodomize anyone with a taser. An officer threatened to do it, but that isn't what happened.
Trust me, not defending the cop here. The threat itself is unacceptable, and I'd guess that someone's career in law enforcement has just come to an abrupt end. (God, I hope so. It certainly would get you fired in most police departments, anyway.)
But it doesn't help anything to exaggerate what occurred.
Obama and his apologists (uh, Chuck Todd?) keep insisting we need to look forward rather than raking up Cheney/Bush mud. Don't these revelations cast that in a new light?
The claims of dictatorial power were made. The persons who rationalized the claims, however tortuously (and torturously?), and the persons who acted on those claims have been neither publicly, officially repudiated let alone made accountable. For example, Yoo is given a nice teaching gig and Cheney's welcome on every conceivable public broadcast show.
So if the claims have been made and–let's face it–tacitly accepted, then what should we expect to see when we look ahead? More of the same, right?
Exclusions and limitations:
There are a number of situations in which the Act does not apply. These include:
National Guard units while under the authority of the governor of a state.
Troops used under the order of the President of the United States pursuant to the Insurrection Act, as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles Riots.
Under 18 U.S.C. § 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if civilian law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threats involving the release of nuclear materials such as potential use of a nuclear or radiological weapon...
...Such assistance may be by any personnel under the authority of the Department of Defense, provided such assistance does not adversely affect U.S. military preparedness.
These revelations keep coming hot and heavy AND may not subside for years...So what is it going to finally take - how much evidence - how many examples of crime - how many lives lost - what level of outrage - to put these people in Jail?? These has been some great snippets of the old press coverage of Watergate with the passing of Walter Cronkite and it took FAR LESS than what we've seen from Chimpy and Darth to pursue that story until tricky dicky got booted out of the WH.
Some how long do we let chimpy and darth run loose? How soon until the Marshall service clicks the cuffs shut??
what other numerous transgressions of the Constitution that this corporatist fascist traitor had either ordered or had planned while in office? Somebody knows but they, like most Repugs, hate democracy and cannot conceive of anything resembling the public good or the rule of law. It only took 233 years or so to overthrow the constitution and the bill or rights. Check out Gore Vidal for an insightful overview.
Your guess is as good as mine.
http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?...
If they had done it in 2002, Bu**sh** and the other fascists just might have gotten away with it because public paranoia and rationalizations (toward losing constitutional protections) were still rampant.
Then again, they might have been called out. It was in June 2002 that students at Ohio State were arrested and their degrees stolen by the university for their "Turn Your Back On Bu**sh**" protest. If several instances of overstepping/goosestepping on human rights had happened, the backlash might have come earlier.
If it had been tried between June 2003 and June 2004, I think it almost certainly would have destroyed any chance of Bu**sh** being appointed president a second time.
I don't recall the event in Ohio in 2002. However, it does bring back memories of the 60s-70s when students were killed at Kent State (also in Ohio) for protesting the Vietnam Conflict.
Those were scary times. I lived in Madison, WI at the time -- just graduated high school -- and lived not far from University of Wisconsin campus. There was a lot of student activity there. I remember times when the wind would carry the remnants of CS gas and you could smell it several blocks away. I also remember when Stirling Hall -- a UW math research building that did work for the Dept of Defense -- blew up from a planted bomb attack.
I wonder what it would take that trigger civil disobedience on that magnitude these days. I'm not sure it could happen now.
the power-mad group of thigs running the bushco administration pretty much knew no bounds.
why is this only coming to light NOW?
oh, that's right....somebody had to grow a spine. that can talk months and months.
This entry was posted on Sunday, July 26th, 2009 at 11:26 am
-- Daniel Tencer
Conyers calls for criminal investigation into Bush administration
[ http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/07/conyers-call... ]
Snip - The chairman of the House Judiciary Committee has called for both a criminal investigation and a blue-ribbon panel to look into "Bush administration abuses of power and misconduct."
I'm sure the WarPigs thought about and done many things of that nature during their crime spree. Most of which no one will ever find out about. But hey...we're safer because of it...right?
As a representative of the "Fourth Estate", why is this supposed journalist relying on a pentagon pension drawing military man instead of constitutional lawyers or civil rights advocates to tell us about this amazing abuse of executive powers?
Cheney demanded? Cheney demanded? Or else what?! On what authority did he dismantle the government?
What is going on here - cheney has no authority under the constitution. Where is George BTW - he is still in the country, right?
Who is this freak Cheney that hype-mo-tized the American government to do his bidding - not even a part of the administration by Cheney's own assertions. This stinks of a take-over allright - tentacles deep into the Pentagon?, CIA?, DOJ?, FBI? Better deal with it now...
Investigate bush-cheney-crimes from 2001-2009
I thought this is the exact type of scenario they're always afraid of with the federal government? I know I've come across some people on the right that still think David Koresh should have been left alone and it was okay for the Branch Dividians to fire upon the ATF agents serving a warrant.
This is the type of crap that deserves an independent investigation.
They only hate the guvmint when a Democrat is in the WH.
Actually, it's not just people on "the right" that think David Koresh should have been left alone. The initial raid on the Branch Davidian compound will a bad idea from the get-go, and the ATF compounded a bad idea by executing it badly.
Do you think the BD's should have been left alone before or AFTER they killed four ATF agents?
preferably before, or do you like seeing people die?
ETA Here is a link with a view from the non government side.
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/waco.tausch...
Oh and how do you feel about Ruby Ridge?
What exactly about Ruby Ridge, shit-kicker? (And you do know it happened before Clinton was elected, right? Far too many hillbillies don't, you know.)
And the enjoyment of viewing people dying is on YOUR side of the fence; you probably got wood when you heard about the dead and wounded ATF'ers. Without the aid of your sister's mouth, no less.
Do you think the the Weaver family should have been left alone before or after they were fired on unprovoked by the US Marshalls? Or after they murdered his wife?
And yes I know when it happened, what does Clinton have to do with it anyway?
And no I didn't get wood when I heard about it, and again your projecting your family life on to others.
Hey, just wait a minute. Liz Chaney will be on the tube soon to explain away her Daddy's criminality. Besides, Obama isn't a U.S. citizen.
For eight years the American people were just one terrorist attack away from being put in internment camp. Bush said it would be so much easier if he were a dictator.
If they could have arrainged one more attack on American soil we would have all been locked away as enemy combatants.
The worst people we have ever had in our government were there for eight years. They almost destroied the whole country.
republicanism is a mental illness!
Funny how it is that this story did not make headlines in every MSM outlet---but no, the joke we call a media are obsessed with Palin the dipshit, destroying health care reform, and their manufactured crisis about racism.
These sickening soap operatic incompetents are a disgrace to people like Walter Cronkite and Edward Murrow, who at least had the bigger public interest in mind.
For shame on these fools. They are a poison on our political dialogue. The horror---the horror.
According to your Second Amendment, had military force actually been used in this scenario, the alleged perpetrators had every right to open fire to defend themselves against "infringement by the federal government".
As a Canadian, watching your gun obsessed culture shoot it out with your (ex?)fascist government, would have made for some excellent ratings for your sensationalist-driven news media.
Go go America go!
Cheney must have never read the US Constitution or for that matter studied it. I'd take a wild guess he had his toilet paper custom printed with it just so he could wipe his dirty ass all over it. Had a few cases made for his daughter to.
I'm sure there is much more that hasn't been revealed. None of it surprising, giving this is Cheney being discussed. But you know he won't go to jail or anywhere else. Those who run the system are above the law. Some animals are more equal than others.
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