Did he or didn't he? Nicolle Wallace and her guests try to figure out if Mark Meadows has flipped on Trump.

"His conduct is so clear from Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony. The gang analogy is interesting because Meadows is the one that makes clear that when it came to gangs, Trump stood with the insurrectionists on the day of January 6th and said to his own lawyers, you know, he thinks Mike deserves it. That's the White House chief of staff, he thinks that Mike deserves it. "It" was being hung," Wallace said.

"I'm curious if the vise is not just tight enough yet on Mark Meadows because I served with Mark Meadows, I know Mark Meadows and I believe today that Mark Meadows has sung like a canary already to Jack Smith. He is somebody who holds himself out with a bit of a compass," David Jolly said.

"That requires you to skip past the fact that he went to work with Donald Trump, which holds all these morals questions in and of itself. He is somebody who considers himself to have a certain amount of compass and I think he's someone who doesn't want to go to prison for Donald Trump. I think he's in that category that says if my personal jeopardy and freedom are on the line, I'm happy to talk about Donald Trump.

"So with that in mind, you know, what I am curious about is a move by Mark Meadows to try to move the Georgia matter to federal court. It avoids the substantive question, it raises the question if he can get out of federal court without addressing the hard questions in Georgia. And I actually think that's consistent with him having cooperated with Jack Smith. I guess I'd have a question a bit for Glen or Jon's reporting. Could Jack Smith actually support that removal from state court to federal court? Because at the end of the day, I believe Mark Meadows has given up the president."