Neda: A Civil Rights Struggle
The thought that what is happening in Iran is so much more than a mere election has struck many of us as self-evident. Would they show this ferocious courage simply for a fixed election? I don't think so. And others, much more learned express it better.
Hamid Dabashi, Kevorkian professor of Iranian studies and comparative literature at Columbia University:
I see the moment we are witnessing as a civil rights movement rather than a push to topple the regime. If Rosa Parks was the American “mother of the civil rights movement,” the young woman who was killed point blank in the course of a demonstration, Neda Agha-Soltan, might very well emerge as its Iranian granddaughter.
....
It seems to me that these brave young men and women have picked up their hand-held cameras to shoot those shaky shots, looking in their streets and alleys for their Martin Luther King. They are well aware of Mir Hossein Moussavi’s flaws, past and present. But like the color of green, the very figure of Moussavi has become, it seems to me, a collective construction of their desires for a peaceful, nonviolent attainment of civil and women’s rights. They are facing an army of firearms and fanaticism with chanting poetry and waving their green bandannas. I thought my generation had courage to take up arms against tyranny. Now I tremble with shame in the face of their bravery.
The idea of "Neda", apart from the young woman herself who was murdered on the street, suggests to me Women's rights, above all. The suppression, even the targeting of women protestors of any age, is perhaps the greatest threat to the orthodoxy under which Iran is governed.
Iranian Nobel Peace laureate Shirin Ebadi put it this way:
Many fear that a second term for a man first elected in 2005 in part on a platform of restoring "Islamic values" will only prove worse than the first.
"The root of the current unrest is the people's dissatisfaction and frustration at their plight going back before the election. Because women are the most dissatisfied people in society, that is why their presence is more prominent."
The video above was taken from an Iranian YouTube video, Neda ye Sarzamin. I could find no translation for it, except that it is a tribute to Neda Agha Soltan. I've added some pictures to make my point.
And then, too, there are great concerns for civil, and human rights here.
Glenn Greenwald here
___
On Iran, another voice. In Salon, Jeanne Carstensen and an interview with Iranian-American journalist Hooman Majd, here
short excerpt:
read on…
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
I understand the significance of Rosa Parks in the history of the USA. However, these are two very very very different struggles with two very different end results for the people involved, one died of old age the other got shot and killed. It is always not a good idea to try to equate them. Sorry.
Especially, since we are the society which remained quiet (i.e. complicit) not only during the 2000 election debacle, but also during the illegal wars and shenanigans pulled by the Bush admin. If anything, it is time for us to shut the f*ck up in shame... not trying to force the Iranian people to our own standards of historical achievements.
I think the prof was trying to say that Rosa and Neda are faces of a movement, or symbols.
BTW, I agree that this is more about civil rights, including women's rights, but not necessarily women's rights above all the others. The guys are pretty tired of the Supreme Leader calling the shots, too. But a woman getting shot point blank and in arbitrary fashion just highlights the gross unfairness and abuse of power in a single moment.
ITA that we did not break through the media shield. That would be a good thing to explore. The state media in Iran is completely distorting the reality of what is going on. How did foreign coverage of our election differ from our own coverage during 2000. There WERE protests against the election and against the war, they just were not given coverage in the US MSM.
Just responding to your points, not arguing (I think!)
... my beef was with the need to map a foreign event/movement with an unrelated American historical event just so that some people in this country can wrap their head around it, or give a sh*t about it.
... there are some small parallels to be found, but there wasn't a foreign country and its politicians gnashing their teeth over how to make us do the right thing.
Civil rights is a battle that is being fought, decades after Parks' act of civil disobedience. It is a struggle we undertake, decision by decision, step by step.
Yet, somehow, there seems to be some 'magic wand' concept going on. That Obama needs to stare Ahmadinejad down and go for guns at high noon or something.
I hate the magic wand thing. We americans think we are so Can Do, and can fix any problem even if it isn't our problem to solve. pretty fricking arrogant.
But the real lie is that Lindsay and his pals wanted to invade Iran well before this election. Nothing like sayin' "let's spread democracy" to ID a warhawk.
It took a bullet to Martin Luther Kings head for America to realize something was fundementally wrong and we needed to change. I was there in downtown Memphis when it happened and I was in uniform on leave from Marines. Our world changed that night and mine too.I was truly ashamed FOR America and I was truly ashamed of my white race and our bigotry that is only skin deep but miles wide. What Iran will become out of all this I don't think they even know.I never would have guessed then what we are now and looking back I'm pretty damned disappointed.
Yes, absolutely. This is a movement, not a partisan struggle.
I was gobsmacked last night when one guest (former reporter who was detained in Iran years ago) answered affirmatively that Moussavi is the "face" of the "opposition". Ithought this question and the answer totally missed the point. The question was Is Moussavi now the face of the opposition? and the reporter says yes I would say so.
I disagree. Neda is the face of the movement. Teh people have a fire in the belly about the outrages raining down on them.
i am, by no means, an iranian scholar, just to get that out of the way...
the "opposition" candidate is opposed to what, exactly? mir hossein mousavi participated in the 79 iranian revolution and was an ally of khomeini, at the time. not to mention the obvious, that the iranian president is not the leader of the country. and the leader, the supreme leader, appoints the 12-man council (guardian council) who are the ones who decide who can run for president. in other words, the men chosen by khamenei are the ones that gave the greenlight for moussavi to run--thus, moussavi was deemed safe enough for the regime to allow him to run.
yet, i am confused... the iranian people surely know this 10 quadrillion times better than i do, yet, even with that knowledge, are risking their lives to dispute the election. the election of a mouthpiece for the leader, not the leader himself...
is the battle over civil rights? is it over the regime itself? is it being controlled by outside (see, cia) forces? is it a combination of all the above???
as someone said last night on the news "something in Iran has broken. It remains to be seen what it is exactly and how the leadership responds to it." IOW, wait and see.
My thoughts are a. at first opposition was to Ahmadinejad as in political opposition. Now, it seems to be morphing into b. opposition against the choices of the leadership which is much deeper than unhappiness with the results of the election (scarce's point above).
The people seem to have a message for the leadership and leadership doesn't want to hear it. A failure to communicate. How insulting is it to have the winning candidate call the people who didn't vote for him "dust"? It also seems to be c. opposition to the treatment of mere citizens by the govt thugs.
jmho
..The Supreme Leader and his puppet, Ahmadinejad, are hypocrits and scoundrels. They rigged the election, that's becoming clearer every day and they're killing the citizen protestors. I hope this revolution, regardless of how it shakes down for the USA, ends with their removal from power.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
A minor nit, but she wasn't shot "point blank" but more "in cold blood." It was a rooftop sniper. Just sayin'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRj7sTZpf7M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEVbKTDtGA
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Farrah Fawcett's dead.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I wonder if Weird Al Yancovich will set that to Bauhaus's Bela Lugosi's Dead?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7xyjU-jsU
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
in the middle of a thread about women's rights.
Maybe waiting for the open thread is a better option?
... as much to learn about Iran in this confrontation as there is about what passes for cognition in Washington.
We have smarmy bastards like Lindsey Graham opining that we're being too soft. As if the slam-the-door approach and inflammatory accusations of the Bush Administration did anything but cast us as an easy scapegoat for Iranian hardliners.
So self-determination and democracy are only possible when one's hand is being held by America, in her full and flowing beneficence and wisdom?
Kind of missing the point, I think.
When we invaded Iraq I believe it was Zbigniew brezinski (sp?) who pointed out that democracy is best created in an "organic" way, coming from the people themselves, like it did in Poland vs. imposing it or trying to graft it onto the situation, as in Iraq. seems obvious, but no!
... an election and a sprinkling of magic democracy dust to not only change the political landscape of a country, but make it a lasting and positive change.
What we did in Iraq unbalanced the entire region. And, despite it being clear that the war was launched on false pretenses, we get a regular dose of idiots telling us how necessary it was and what a great job W and the Brain did to keep us safe.
.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
America took a great leap forward with the Suffrage Movement. It took a second great leap forward with the Rosie the Riveter movement of the 40's. No country can participate in the 21st century unless its women are equal partners in the process.
Any philosophy, ideology or religion that demands that women have a subsidiary or secondary role in society is antithetical to progress and dangerous to every woman on earth.
Just look at the men in America who consistently push to put women "back in the kitchen" and who fight against reproductive rights... they're the same kind of evil misogynist tyrants that keep women oppressed in Iran.
values and religion.
from these children yearning to be free, with a fierceness even I at 60 cannot comprehend. Events like Neda make us squirm as we sit in our myopic complacency, wishing for them the freedoms we so much take for granted. They deserve a bright new world with a future and we deserve the cesspool of indifference to the erosion of our freedoms that we wallow in today. I've always said that- It's hard to start a revolution on a full stomach. Well those people in Iran are starving while we sit over here fat as pigs waiting for more food not caring that its fast food with no substance. When the time comes for us to make a stand(and it will come , maybe not in my lifetime but it will come), will we have the courage to put our lives on the line or will we just line up to be slaughtered.
Hamid Dabashi said it very eloquently in the article....
They are facing an army of firearms and fanaticism with chanting poetry and waving their green bandannas. I thought my generation had courage to take up arms against tyranny. Now I tremble with shame in the face of their bravery.
want us to drop bombs on these freedom seeking people? So that they can continue to be dictators of Palistanian life?
In a pig's eye!!!!
I was sad to see what happened to that lovely young woman, we all should be appalled, but what if Rachel Corrie's death had been caught on film?
I do find it funny how the west is acting up when in the 'free' countries you can get arrested for protesting in the wrong areas.
.. or just being the wrong kind of protesters.
What possible motive would even the most dastardly regime have for killing this poor girl? She was not even protesting, had merely stepped out of a grid-locked car for a moment. No matter how evil a regime might be, the backlash from such a killing is entirely predictable would be well known to them.
Evil regimes do not shoot innocent bystanders on the street, especially without leaving a signature. They use the cover of civil disorder to eliminate a few known dissidents and intimidate. For the intimidation to work, they must be visible.
Someone on the "reform " ticket is shooting.
The possible perpetrators of this tragic incident are many and varied but the regime is way down the list.
Top of the list is some nutter from either side of the conflict taking a pot-shot.
If we apply the principle of "who benefits", the next likely contender would be a dissident or operative of MEK bent on creating an incident likely to garner the sympathy of those who, lacking analytical ability, are easily persuaded that "evil regimes" operate in such an illogical and counter-productive fashion.
My bet is on the MEK:
From the second link you posted:
"How was it that the photographer had contact with the media most closely connected with the intelligence forces of the two major former colonial powers in Iran—Britain and the U.S.?"
Did you look at the hands of other people in the crowd when the camera-angle shifted for a better view? If you did, on repeat viewings and when you were no longer drawn to focus on the action you would have noticed *multiple* cell-phones recording video. Many of the young men in many videos to make it out had a cell phone in one hand recording and a rock in the other. I am amazed only one video of Neda made it out. Nice media crackdown there.
Welcome to the new world of the digital natives. Revolutions will be fought with rocks in one hand and communication devices in the other. We live in a surveillance society, we are upset it has become this way, young people grew up in it. We noticed the start of "branding" and "advertising campaigns", they grew up first ignoring, then making their own. They aren't just the face of the new revolutions, but the new media, and the new propaganda machine. I dare someone not used to it to stand in the WHARGARBL and make sense of it.
The usual response to a post like this on a "younger" board would be to reply with a picture of a cute kitten. Mr. "Member for 4 hours 42 min ". Try not to google WHARGARBL.
I am well aware of and used to the media in all its forms - I work in it.
My second link did not purport to be conclusive yet it is one thing to film such an event, another to have the wherewithal to get it to a major foreign news outlet within one hour. This raises the possibility of a set-up. We can infer that whoever filmed the incident was media-savvy and connected with a Western Media outlet.
The fact that eight Basij members have been killed indicates there are shooters on the pro-Moussavi team.
"Mr. "Member for 4 hours 42 min"
I have been a daily reader (C&L is 2nd on my favorites list) and occasional poster here for several years. Finding myself unable to log in this morning I created a new account.
Suggest you save pictures of pussycats for those who believe the Iranian Government is responsible for this tragic incident.
"I am well aware of and used to the media in all its forms - I work in it."
This fact actually makes your argument weaker. I spoke with someone in media and public relations at the government level recently, a friend thought we'd have a fun chat. We did. Lovely person, no clue about new media or how people under 25 use it.
"We can infer that whoever filmed the incident was media-savvy and connected with a Western Media outlet."
No you cannot. Not in the age of the internet. All they need to know is someone with a net connection and a tiny bit of net savvy. Not even a lot of net savvy. That should not have been a hard thing to find in as modern, young and wired a city as Tehran. Footage that stunning will go viral the minute it leaks now.
Traditional media lagged the story, and many others.
Disinformation campaigns will also have problems. Most young people assume all mass media is untrustworthy. You can post on boards, but really, people won't buy things there without a post history and some feel for your bias. The links were not convincing. So, no one will buy it with a recently created account. Especially since new and alt accounts are usually used for posting disinformation/trolling. Sorry if you aren't really new, who is your main log-in?
And, "pussycat"? Really? OK, that's it ... here is a picture of a really cute cat.
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com...
As a human being, who out there could not be impacted by watching the death of ANY other human being? On a political level, as Anti-Obama I might be, I believe beyond the fact that he could choose words more harshly, that he is doing the right thing. If these college students who are protesting and dying should be angry with anyone, it should be their own parents as 30 years ago they were in a civilized society and chose to scale the walls of the US Embassy and hold hostage our fellow Americans for 444 days, remember? Freedom "given" is never appreciated...freedom must come with a cost that Amercians have always paid and continue to pay today. This battle must therefore belong to the Iranians who want precious freedom. This is their fight and it must be their victory or loss. As an American I hope they win but if they are lucky enough to get another shot at being free and choose to overthrow this next opportunity to be part of a civilized world, it will not and SHOULD NOT be with the blood of innocent Americans as it was 30 years ago. This is their battle and it is sad to watch unfold but as I said before, freedom does not come without a price.
You have got to be kidding me!
The US is the ones they had to thank for the Shah in the first place. You know the one we supported in toppling the democratically elected government and replaced it with his dictatorship?
And this not only counts for Iran, but many other countries as well.
The US does not care for democracy unless it will work for them. If a dictator will do the same job, even better, as they tend to go straight for the phony elections in the first place.
The Iranians got screwed over by the US multiple times and you have the gull to whine about kidnapping?
But then, you do live in your own little world, don't you?
What makes any of you think that she will be remembered any more than any of those poor souls at Tiananmen Square?
Like the poster says:Human rights Abuse:Surprising how quickly its forgotten when you are offered cheap
shoesoil.Just like "Yellow Rose" from Roger Waters' song Watching TV -
....has got me pissed off, here are a couple links for those who wish to be informed about the situation in Iran.
Are the Iranian Protests Another US Orchestrated "Color Revolution?"
A Hard Look at the Numbers
What Actually Happened in the Iranian Presidential Election?
Since you pick Counterpunch, for both your links. Let's start there.
http://www.counterpunch.org/giroux06192009.html
As I was saying about media, youth, things ...
I'd recommend, to balance your links:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/iran
What can I say, I love a good number crunching. The tone there is intrigued, something is fishy, but not sure.
And, you just can't leave out:
http://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/files/14234_ir...
And this:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6579675.ece
Me, I don't know. But from social networking sources, it seems some Iranians have doubts. It may end up being one of those things no one ever knows for sure. I'm not sure I'd buy a "confession" by anyone on any side of this issue in Iran right now about elections or Neda. I'm just cynical like that though.
We also aren't going to influence anyone in Iran from this message board. But, I think it would be foolish to underestimate the cynicism toward mainstream media and net savvy of young Iranians. Telling them that Neda was not killed by Basij just brings up another cat picture:
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com...
Enjoy. It's cute!
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