Kentucky Stomper Wants An Apology
Via TPM:
Tim Profitt -- the former Rand Paul volunteer who stomped on the head of a MoveOn activist -- told told local CBS station WKYT that he wants an apology from the woman he stomped and that she started the whole thing.
Yeah. Seriously.
The woman, 23-year-old Lauren Valle from Washington D.C., appeared to be following a specific set of instructions detailed on MoveOn.org's website designed to attract media attention. Profitt claims he believed Paul was in danger from the woman and that he acted to protect the candidate, but the campaign has condemned Profitt's actions. "I put my foot on her, and I did push her down at the very end, and I told her to stay down," Proffitt said, "I actually put my foot on her to... I couldn't bend over because I have issues with my back."
Lexington Police began an assault investigation identifying Profitt as a suspect. "Well I'll just say it, if the police had done what they were supposed to do, it would have never happened," Profitt said.
The Paul campaign is not alone in its reaction. Another man involved in the altercation, Mike Pezzano, who held down Ms. Valle, tells NEWSFIRST he doesn't condone Profitt's actions. Valle has said she believes Paul supporters planned an attack on her. Pezzano asked not to appear on camera for an interview, but he denies that accusation and says he barely knows Profitt and didn't even know Profitt was there. As for Profitt, he remains defiant. "I don't think it's that big of a deal," Profitt said.
And when asked if he would apologize to Valle. "I would like for her to apologize to me to be honest with you," Profitt said.
A spokesperson for MoveOn.org says Lauren Valle has been released from the hospital and is recovering from injuries including a concussion and a sprained shoulder and arm.
Although Profitt didn't want his face shown in the newsclip above he had no such qualms being photographed with Rand Paul. Funny about that.
right-wing coward
size of his opponents. However, his intellect will forever remain small.
...to protect that woman. Here in Chicago, police routinely take assholes like this into a quiet alley and beat the shit out of them before taking them to the station.
Besides everything obviously wrong with his actions, he is dumb enough to blame LE for not preventing him from taking those actions. Should somebody tell him that those are the folks who will be investigating and prosecuting him? There might have been some sympathy for his position in the local LE community before that statement and the case may hay been no billed but I doubt that now.
I get it; she clearly posed a threat with her dangerous-looking sign (it doubles as a weapon!) so she had to be taken down; unfortunately, her head got in the way of his patriotic foot. In that case, maybe she should apologize...
Oh, please! But I do take issue with MoveOn.org for sending folks into these type situations and why I'm hesistant in participating with some of their events. Does anyone know what the MoveOn instructions contained?
.
And they don't suggest taking risks or being threatening. As Valle said last night, it's not liberty if it's limited to some citizens.
That's the reaction the bad guys want -- this idea that it should somehow pose a risk to be creative and even a little bit funny with political dissent. The responsibility for this falls squarely on the stomper and his buddies who yanked her to the ground.
this is what it will be like:
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever."
George Orwell-1984
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
I've got a big warm brown steaming apology for you right here, you fucking jackboot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbyAZQ45uww
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Couple of real tough guys there, get a woman down then step on her head. I hope somebody kicks the shit out of him. Goddam pussy.
http://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/365174-poor_jo...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
An apology of her elbow to his temple would be too good for him.
This man is not responsible for his actions.He has been twisted by the media and a lack of education.These people are scared and frightened of the change they know is coming but cannot understand.They are just the cannon fodder of leaders who drop them like poison if they are seen to be doing what their leaders ask them.They are more to be pitied than scorned they need to be helped to see that they are being manipulated by those they believe to have their best interest at heart.Educate and inform that is the only cure for this disease.
The guy looked very comfortable stepping on her head and neck. Obviously had done it before. I would say either a high school bully that grew up and stayed an asshole, or a neo-nazi looking for his next victim.
Arrest him. If need be make him a martyr to his Open Carry Brethren in KY.
He looks like the cowardly little turd who comes in to throw a blow at a beaten victim after the gang has beaten that person up.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Everywhere all the time, unless they've been forcibly medicated.
The miscreant knew exactly what he was doing...in the video, I even saw him pause before he stomped his size 10 on her head so he got it in the most effective place. AND THEN HE DID IT AGAIN!!
NO APOLOGIES FOR HIM!!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
.... here comes the "concern" express. Right on time!
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
You are ALWAYS responsible for your own actions.
far left loon >.<
you are right, of course (and thank you for your compassion).
in the whole and over the long haul, the millions of people this man represents do need exactly what you suggest. i hope (and would generally believe) that, for all the bitching and moaning around here, practically speaking, C&L'ers do make those efforts at education and enlightenment with the actual persons they encounter in their lives; i know i try to.
as for this particular lost soul, he needs to take responsibility for his actions. that too would serve to educate and inform his fellow travelers, and is a necessary prerequisite for his own transformation in thinking, without which our best efforts at assistance are useless.
More nerve than a 10 cent steak.
Let's see how far to the right they go before they fall off of the edge of this flat world.
shut. the. fuck. up. you are making my job all the harder.
Very true!
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
an apology with a baseball bat smack upside the head? Oh, it's just me.
But, as I am a pacifist, perhaps a continual battering with a nerf bat in a public forum while the audience jeers and throws rotten tomatoes and cabbages...........
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
it's o.k. with me.
Those Puritans really had the punishment meme down right.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Haven't they arrested that Nazi pig yet?
They should not only question the local planner of the paul event, but randy himself as material witness to describe their hiring process.
If rand doesn't show issue a warrant.
Article I section 6 gives a great deal of immunity to congress critters, "They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same ..."
Of course the paula jones precedent opens the door wide-open for a lawsuit, even if he's in office.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
!
"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman
This clown should be in cuffs, eating SOS, sitting in his isolation cell, wondering when Tyrone is going to show next...
ARREST this clown!!!!
http://midwestrocklobster.com/100107/shitonas...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Typical tea-bagger, Dickhead that was born and bred to be a habitual liar.
Oooh, let me guess - he's on disability too?
Jackanape.
And welfare.
than just step on her head."
To watch that footage was frightening. All I could think of is what would have happened to that poor woman if she wasn't in a public place surrounded by people - some with cameras.
Different Anonymous — 10/27/10 10:09am
Jackanape.
______________________________________________________
http://watershedonline.ca/community/IMAGES/ja...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It's not his back. He still has butthurt from the last election.
Let's see how far to the right they go before they fall off of the edge of this flat world.
He's too fat to bend over, hence the back problems too. And, plus, he's an idiot.
far left loon >.<
that the video makes it appear they caught up with him for this interview while he was taking a crap?
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Given that he's a piece of sh*t, it's oddly appropriate if he were dropping a deuce..
"How dare you assault my foot with your Head!!!"
Watch the nasty bastard apologize and plead to his prison cellmate, Bubba, when bubba is stepping on his tiny head ready to screw him. Hope she presses charges on the mentally disturbed asshole.
Equal justice for all.
Izzat Joey Ramone's mother in the Fingerhut ad?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Never any accountability for the Rethuglican's actions. They do whatever they want, and they get away with it.
Law enforcement will take the Obama lead and "look forward, not backward" on this one, as it was not "major" injury, only ONE stomp (one stomp CAN kill, though in this case, it didn't) and the STOMPER is a Rethuglican and the stompee a non-Rethuglican.
Oh, and it was all her fault, because she THREW her head down there under his foot anyway. Or it was the cops fault for not stoping them from taking her down. Or somebody else's fault. ANYBODY but him, for being an arrogant, thick-headed, angry THUG who works well in crowds but would run and hide if one-to-one with anybody.
Charlie L
Portland, Oregon
Looking to the Future, Not the Past.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
At least she wasn't kidnapped and made to worship the Aqua Buddha.
Aqua Buddha? Isn't that Fred Thompson's favorite aftershave? At least, that's what Chris Matthews said.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
Hey, lighten up...it's not like he shot her.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
lukewarm press release over the poor lady who got her head stomped on.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
I've noticed a common thread with these teabagger pricks. NOTHING is their fault. Nothing. It's always the fault of the Mexicans, pinkos, George Soros, the Tides Foundation....(fill in the blank).
The mentality of this mouthbreathing Rand Paul supporter is the same as the rapist's: "She asked for it! She should apologize to me for wearing such a short skirt!"
That's because your typical teabagger is nothing more than a spoiled child's mind in an adult's body. Seriously. Everything is "He/She started it!!". I expect this kind of shit from 3 year olds, but from so-called "adults"? Fucking pathetic.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
As John Dean correctly pointed out in all three of his books, all of which are still very relevant, these types of people are authoritarians.
They rely on others to define the world for them, from their opinions to their to political views and everything in between.
It's why they can take hypocritical views like railing against social programs while accepting government assistance. They know that Medicare is a government program, but to them...they are "entitled" to it...and for a myriad of reasons from something as simple as "I worked for x number of years and now its' MY turn", to "well, my need is different and besides my issues/problems/needs are more important that some cheat living off the public dole...I REALLY need it, not them'".
Yes, to a certain extent it is very much the perspective of a child. It allows them to rail about personal responsibility, but so long as they receive conditioning from the authoritarians they trust (Beck or politicians) that all their problems are someone else's fault, then they can shun their own personal responsibility.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
completely described the Rethuglican mindset. I recommend it to anyone who is curious as to what makes Rightys tick.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
What''s so frustrating is the lack of maturity in these people. I'm 37 and I argue with 60 year-olds who do the equivalent of throwing temper tantrums. They seem to lack any ability to critically think. The capacity for inductive and deductive reasoning is simply not there. Add to that, incredible ignorance about the constitution, civics in general, even their favorite book...the bible.
What did this to these people? TV?
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
so true
and it is part of the taxonomic breakdown of the tea partier:
- they are never at fault
- they are always the victim
- they view govt services as being beneficial only when they personally benefit
- fear. everything. fear. everyone.
- they are used as pawns by those they claim to be against
... with a good side of sociopath thrown to spice things up.
The right is choke full of these types.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Hey Proffit!
Here's your apology, scumbag: "I'm sorry I'm going to have to kick your punk ass all the way to Louisville. Come to think of it, I'm not sorry - go f%^k yourself!"
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
I'm so very sorry IF my pushing the back of my head into the bottom of your jack-boot has caused anyone to be offended (or placed in legal "jeapordy")...
- Pretzelogic in Philly, PA
And now for some feedback: Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Just remember who brought up the idea a day ago, that these asshats would want an apology from the victim.
http://crooksandliars.com/comment/permalink/1...
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
When will the DOW be back over 12,000?
Should I trade Brett Farve now, or hang on for the Packer rematch?
Am I an elitist if I knows who BOTH Jimmy Johnsons is?
Please answer quick. My backside has issues and I need to have a sit down.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
just take away his cell phone camera.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Why...are you on it too?
LOL! Kiddddddddddding!
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
If I were on it, they'd destroy it.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
WE'RE NOT WORTHY!!!
*grovels in the dirt*
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Just keepin' the blog honest, baaaaby.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Thanks!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
I would implore everyone here to take the belief claim seriously. Let us not sit dumbfounded by the likes of this loon any longer. His claim to believe that the woman he battered was an actual threat to Rand Paul is very likely his honest conviction.
Stop to consider the implications. He's not evil. He's not rationalizing post hoc. He's not even convinced himself to lie for the greater good that will come of lying.
No, no. HE'S FUCKING DELUSIONAL!
Try to imagine yourself adopting his perspective. He actually believed that he was defending another person. Consider how propagandized one must be to actually believe that. To actually see a threat where no threat existed. Where no threat could possibly exist under the circumstances.
If you believed President Obama were in danger because you saw someone at a rally with a "Down with N****ERS" sign and a gun, you might have reacted the same way this guy reacted. Only you wouldn't have been delusional. Your belief would have been reasonable.
But let's take the belief claim seriously. He really believes that 23-year-old woman posed a threat to Rand Paul. To my mind, that's even more frightening than the options of evil, rationalizing, or knowingly lying.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
By reason of insanity?
- Pretzelogic in Philly, PA
And now for some feedback: Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I am hardly arguing that he is not guilty by reason of insanity. (Legal insanity actually depends not on delusions about empirical reality, but on the inability to distinguish right from wrong. But I digress.)
No, I'm not defending him. Not at all. Let me make that abundantly clear. I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM.
I am saying that we must learn to adopt the perspective of other people if we are to understand what's happening around us. We tend not to do this. We judge him not by what he believes, but by what we believe. We think it's patently unreasonable and silly for anyone to believe that this woman posed a threat to Rand Paul, so we assume that this violent Rand Paul supporter probably doesn't believe that either. But he might actually believe that!
What I am imploring people to recognize is simply that this man might actually believe that this woman posed a threat to Rand Paul.
Does that make him "not guilty?" Not even under the law as it stands! He could claim "defense of others," but the standard by which the law would judge him is not whether he genuinely subjectively believes he was defending Paul, but whether it was reasonable for him to believe he was defending Paul.
So, he's guilty as hell!
But the fact that he might actually believe what he is saying is something we must take seriously as a society. We must recognize the delusion that is gripping people like him. If we can't recognize it, we can't recognize the threat to the country that really does exist, thanks to the likes of FUX News and relentless Republican Propaganda.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
that said, as I posted in greater detail elsewhere in this thread, my own suspicion is that his motives are far more devious - to deliberately create a major distraction. In that case, we should give "credit" where it's due - this is some serious media catnip...
- Pretzelogic in Philly, PA
And now for some feedback: Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Thank you for at least understand what I am driving at.
Of course, I must allow for the possibility that I am wrong. It might be that in this instance, this man actually is lying. He is just doing some sinister deed for the Paul campaign, and he knows it.
If so, I will actually be relieved.
I mean it when I say the delusion would frighten me more than the evil. And people must be open to the possibility that he was delusional. Because we know these delusional folks are out there. David Neiwert has been documenting them for a long time.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Watching the video, I too cringed a little at the fact that the woman was wearing a wig and it was reported that she was "approaching" RP. That being said, taken into account the entire context of the head-stomping, I don't think that a reasonable person would or could assert that she was a threat that required the kind of force (even in defense of others) that this woman posed.
I tend to think that this man is lying about his concern for a few reasons: (1) she was down and out of commission when he stomped her; (2) as others have pointed out, there appears to be some other inappropriate touching going on after she is down and effectively "neutralized"; (3) his immediate reaction to being revealed was to backtrack rather than claim that he too was a victim which tells me that this "urgency" was more of an afterthought to justify excessive force rather than to protect anyone.
Now I understand your POV that we should look at it from the stomper's POV. But even from his POV, unless he's completely certifiable, his story and his reason for wanting an apology simply do not make any sense. I am more inclined to think that this is a morally bankrupt person who is more interested in CYA than an apology. He's not that bright to boot.
I'd love for him to explain to a judge and/or jury why he thinks he is entitled to an apology from the woman he assualted. And this is extremely relevant given that it shows that the man: (1) knew what he was doing; (2) knew the effect of what he was doing; and, (3) shows zero remorse for his actions. When they are done with him in criminal court, I hope this woman drags him into civil court and sues the pants off him. I'd make exhibit A this video where he demands an apology from his victim.
He is evil AND delusional.
Evil, Rationalizing, Knowingly Lying, or Delusional Belief.
Are you sure you want to stick with your choice of Door # 4, Karen.
Open it up and show the contestant what is behind defendant's door #4.
http://www.tias.com/stores/adateintime/pictur...
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Are you sure you want to rule out Door #4?
Are you sure this man does not actually believe what he's saying? I could be wrong in this particular case. I am willing to be shown the evidence that I am wrong in this particular case.
But the fact that it would put him on par with Squeaky Fromme, to my mind, is a reason to take Door #4 very, very seriously!
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
... he could very well be all the items in that menu: delusional, evil, and a liar.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
http://www .youtube.c om/watch?v =Kkn2u-OMf TI&feature =player_em bedded
There are several things interesting about this view. Firstly, are the "We Want Jack" chants that dominate most of the audio. Obviously there was a strong Conway contingent in the crowd.
Next, we see Paul's arrival and his movement through the crowd. He is surrounded by media and his own volunteers and a couple of police are seen in the background, arms crossed and clearly simply watching, not "restraining" the crowd.
The altercation occurs behind the scenes, and it's plain that Valle didn't get close to Paul.
The most interesting part comes right at the end when her friend helps her to her feet. A police officer is there almost immediately and just behind his right shoulder, Proffitt is standing. The police officer talks back and forth with Valle and it's clear that the officer is asking Valle to identify her attackers, but, of course, with her face away from Proffitt when he stomped her, she didn't know the guy who did it was standing right there.
The key point is, if Proffitt was so concerned about the potential for her to assault Paul, and his efforts to "restrain" her were legitimate, why didn't he talk to the cop? He listens in to what they are both saying, probably realizes he might be in trouble, and then turns away.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkn2u-OMfTI&fe...
OH NO HE DI'NT!!!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Put that Nazi motherfucker in jail. I keep saying, if the people of Kentucky elect that fucking prick Rand Paul then they deserve him. Unfortunately, we had a similar incident out here in the 50th California about a week ago after a "debate" between Francine Busby and Brian Bilbray. A bunch of Bilbray's supporters bum rushed Busby outside of the forum afterwards. Trying to indimidate her. Fucking assholes.
Wife beaters and child abusers.
Just sayin'
or that she and Clarence have kids?
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
This just keeps getting better and better! The nerve of her to put her face on his boot sole!
This guy is some piece of work, I tell ya what.
Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.
RED Wings...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
is the county seat of Bourbon County which is located outside of Lexington. Horse country. Queen Elizabeth's horse (or horses) are boarded there. In Paris, the population consists of wealthy people or poor people. Very little middle class. Class distinction still runs rampant in that area and there is a great disparity among the classes. I know. I grew up 20 miles from Paris. It's a town where your last name can decide your future.
horse and couldn't find that breed. I did find however, that she is trying to save the Suffolk horse, which is now an endangered species. Are those Q.E.'s horses or are they something else entirely? Suffolk horses look very much like Clydesdales by the way.
I don't know what kind of horses she boards there. She visits occasionally. Usually in May during the Derby.
The horse barns in Bourbon County are nicer that most people's homes.
I surely wouldn't enjoy the caste system.
They know about QE II's horses but they haven't seen Secretariat.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Racehorses. Sport of kings (and queens.) The jumpers are kept at home, but the big money in racing is in the US.
"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman
A) Tim Profitt was aware of Lauren Valle's presence - he said prior to Rand Paul's arrival, 3 of his friends talked to police about her.
B) He knew who she was - she had been at several other events.
C) He knew her tactics - that she wasn't violent, just a nuisance with opposing views.
D) He knew how big she was - about half his weight.
E) Once she was down - she immediately curled up in the fetal position and stopped moving.
F) Is Valle WAS a threat, why did Mike Pezzano get off of her once he wrestled her to the ground?
F) The police DID do what they were supposed to do. Valle was there legally, and had done nothing to warrant police action.
From the very start, Tim Profitt KNEW Laura Valle posed no physical threat to Rand Paul.
The threat came from Valle's constitutional right to express her opposing viewpoint.
He's a coward, acting tough when a woman half his size is lying helpless on the ground.
A) Tim Profitt was aware of Lauren Valle's presence - he said prior to Rand Paul's arrival, 3 of his friends talked to police about her,because they genuinely believe people like her pose a physical threat to the survival of conservative candidates and the country.
B) He knew who she was - she had been at several other events, and he was genuinely afraid of her.
C) He knew her tactics - but literally believes that people who think like her pose genuine threats to the country and to candidates with opposing views to her.
D) He knew how big she was - about half his weight, so he knew he could take her -- what a silly mistake she must be making to try to hurt Paul with big people like him around.
E) Once she was down - she immediately curled up in the fetal position and stopped moving, because to him, liberals are basically cowards when you get right down to it.
F) Is Valle WAS a threat, why did Mike Pezzano get off of her once he wrestled her to the ground? Mission accomplished.
Not necessarily. He might have actually come to believe that she did pose a threat, and that he successfully prevented it. We have to consider the possibility that he is neither correct nor lying. He's delusional. It's a more frightening proposition to consider than that he's lying.
Sure, but in his mind, this is a genuine, legitimate threat. Because progressives like her are in cahoots with terrorists. He is not merely immature. He's delusional. And he's not alone!
Oh, I have no doubt he's a coward. But suppose you saw a tiny woman at an Obama rally wearing an "I hate N***ERS" T-shirt and a gun on her belt? Might you be tempted to tackle her to the ground?
The point I'm making is that we have to allow for the possibility that this lunatic really did perceive a threat. That's far more scary than thinking he's immature, cowardly, stupid, evil or anything else we might ascribe to his mentality.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Allowing him to claim he saw her as a real threat is his best defense.
http://www.tias.com/stores/adateintime/pictur...
If he gets prosecuted, I would hope the state argues he is mean, evil, rationalizing and knowingly lying.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
You are spectacularly missing my point.
Claiming that she was a threat is NOT his best defense, because IT IS NOT REASONABLE for him to believe that she was a threat. The law would not recognize it as a defense unless the belief on which it is based is reasonable.
I'm not defending him. I'm imploring people to consider that HE MIGHT ACTUALLY BELIEVE WHAT HE IS SAYING.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
I get your point and do not think you are defending him any more that I was suggesting she deserved to be beaten yesterday when I asked what political purpose she thought she accomplishing by being there in the first place.
I think, based on events in the past, operating on a belief that he was defending his candidate from a Squeaky Fromme or Arthur Bremer
is going to be his defense if he gets a day in court.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Then you should rest a little easier. Both were convicted, and spent very long times in prison. Because that defense doesn't make any sense, and juries know it.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Let's understand the key points here, Karen.
First, she'd been seen at other rallies before and was never a threat to anyone nor caused an undue disruption, and lets be clear...protesting is not a disruption. It is a right.
Second. She didn't have "a gun on her belt". Unlike the Tea Party asshats who went to town halls with loaded weapons. Open public and legal forums where there were children present.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Point # 2 is problematic. His partner in this take down/stomp down is a leader
in the Kentucky Open Carry Movement. They knew her weapon had to be concealed. If you believe they believed she was a threat.
They knew she was no threat because she had been around before waving the same damn annoying sign. They just wanted to kick some butt. So to speak.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Yes, let's understand the key points.
His belief IS PATENTLY, UNFORGIVABLY, RIDICULOUSLY UNREASONABLE.
I fully concede that. I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM.
I am simply imploring people to recognize that HE MIGHT GENUINELY BELIEVE WHAT HE IS SAYING.
This is not to his credit. It makes him even more dangerous that we imagine. The key point I am making is not that he was reasonable in his belief. I'm saying HE JUST MIGHT BELIEVE IT ANYWAY!
Consider the implications of that for society.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Being a delusional motherfucker doesn't make you innocent. It may get you committed, but it doesn't make you innocent.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
not delusional belief in a threat.
You know, Muslims in muslimic garb make airplane passengers sweat.
Patting them down yourself in the absence of airport security can make for less nervous flying.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Ya think? No kidding. Because arguing for a delusional belief in a threat is not a legitimate legal defense.
If he argues, in court, that he was defending Rand Paul, the question for the jury to decide will not be whether he actually believed Paul was in danger, but whether it was reasonable for him to believe that Paul was in danger.
On that level, the defense fails. Period.
How is it that people have gotten it into their heads that mere delusion exonerates people or renders them non-culpable for their actions? That's almost as frightening as the fact that people are unwilling to believe this man might be delusional.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
I'm not sure with whom you are having this argument, but it is not me.
I defy you to read my comments on this thread, take them in, and walk away with the belief that I am defending this loon or otherwise saying he's innocent. If you believe that I am saying that, I should worry about your delusions as well as his.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
I'm not sure what you're defending or what you're even trying to say.
Of course he believes what he believes. No shit. What's your point? Is that it? Ok. Thanks for playing, it doesn't change facts. Facts substantiated by video.
1) Not a threat
2) Previously seen at other rallies, and admitted by the assailant himself, and not perceived as a threat
3) Unarmed
4) Attacked without cause.
5) Assaulted by the assailant AFTER being subdued, and no longer a threat.
His "belief" isn't going to mean shit to an honest judge. To justify his actions based on a belief, there has to be a REASONABLE perception...defined as REASONABLE by a REASONABLE person in a similar situation. This situation in no way meets that standard.
You want to argue he's nuts, and try and get off on a temporary insanity plea. Yeah, he MIGHT have a case.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Well, I thank you for admitting that much. No, you don't understand what I'm saying.
First, most people are not willing to admit that he MIGHT believe he perceives the woman he tackled to have been a threat. The mere fact that it is unbelievable to us, makes us think that this man cannot actually believe it.
As a defense, it goes nowhere. It is not a defense. To anything.
What's my point? My point is that this kind of delusion LEADS TO this kind of violence. And if we refuse to recognize that it is DELUSIONAL BELIEF driving much of the violence we see (whether it be from Islamic terrorists, the KKK, Evangelical Christian terrorists, or plain old dumbshits like this Rand Paul supporter) then we are not fully recognizing the problem we are confronting.
If you consider that this man ACTUALLY BELIEVES that the woman he attacked posed a genuine threat to Rand Paul, then you can begin to see just how dangerous he really is.
If anything, I am condemning MORE than anyone else here.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
He genuinely believes what Glenn Beck and others say, that Progressives/Liberals are destroying America and must be dealt with. He really believes everything he hears and sees on Fox.
This brings up a new defense: "FOX made me do it!"
"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman
I don't care what he was afraid of.
"But suppose you saw a tiny woman at an Obama rally wearing an "I hate N***ERS" T-shirt and a gun on her belt? Might you be tempted to tackle her to the ground?"
No. I wouldn't. Because if I did, I would be no better than the fascists.
Delusional, dishonest, whatever...who gives a shit. I think the 2 go hand in hand. When you are delusional, the crazy becomes legitimate. Lies, cowardice, evil, all are justified. Ends justify the means when you are so blinded.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
Are you serious? You would not consider such a woman to pose a genuine threat to the president? You think you'd be attacking her for her beliefs?
How about if you saw that she was POINTING the gun at Obama, and you judged her aim to be accurate? Would you then be a fascist for tackling her?
Listen to yourself! That's exactly my point! When people are this deluded, ANYTHING IS JUSTIFIED in their minds!
Once again, and I'll repeat it as many time as necessary: I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM!
It is exactly your description of delusion that should make us "give a shit!"
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
not be fascistic to attempt a take down. Pointed at anyone. But carrying a sign? As has been pointed out, these guys had prior knowledge of the victim, how she behaved. I believe they probably threw assloads of projection there, thinking she was a possible threat (because they might be at a gathering in which they were the minority). But she wasn't displaying a weapon. Does their alleged fear of harm being done to another by someone who does not appear threatening to reasonable people indemnify their actions?
I'd be interested in finding out if either guy is a steroid abuser or has a history of physical abuser, DV or bullying.
me-oww!
Holy hand grenades! For the umpteenth time, NO IT DOES NOT INDEMNIFY THEIR ACTIONS!
I am not defending him. I don't know how much more plain I can be. I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM.
I am not arguing that he is innocent. I am arguing that we must allow for the possibility that he actually, genuinely believed in the threat he saw. The fact that he saw the threat DOES NOT MAKE IT REASONABLE FOR HIM TO SEE THE THREAT. The fact that he saw the threat DOES NOT MEAN HE IS INNOCENT.
What I am trying to point out is that the fact that he saw the threat MAKES HIM MORE DANGEROUS THAN WE ARE ALREADY IMAGINING HIM TO BE.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
I was agreeing with you. My question was part rhetorical, part wondering what the legal stance on intent in a case like this is.
Please calm down. I see a lot of non-lawyers say stuff on the internet that this that or the other HAS to be illegal, or I'd do this or that (with the help of the courts), when whatever it is they're declaring has no basis in law.
I think any big asshole who goes off on small people and feels justified in doing it is very dangerous, just like you do. Which is why I wondered about drug use and past history. I mean this is a guy who packs heat in the open, and stomps on young women who are known to be unarmed and no threat based on previous experience. I think assholes like this fantasize about doing takedowns and saving their heroes, vanquishing the enemy, to the point where it could be considered premeditated.
me-oww!
Calm down a bit.
Showing up as you described vs. an assassination attempt are 2 different things. Your comments suggest because of his mental instability, he is somehow justified. Not your intention, but it came out that way.
Yes, if i could save the presidents life, of course I would. But that's not the situation you described earlier. People showed up at healthcare town halls and Obama speeches with the equivalent, but they should be arrested if a deemed a threat, not beaten up by party thugs.
I understand your point, he is delusional. I just don't care to view that as a any kind of defense, which he would use if he was prosecuted.
That's what my point is.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
She keeps upping the ante...gun...assassination attempt...because she's WRONG...and won't admit it.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Please paraphrase my arguments here. I do not think you understand what I'm saying.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
But for the love of public discourse, I am not implying that he is innocent because he's delusional.
To whatever extent I am to blame for people's having inferred it anyway, I think I have more than rectified the perception with my later comments.
But people keep arguing with me that his delusion doesn't make him innocent. That his delusion is not a defense.
I don't know how many times I can say that that is not what I am arguing before people keep telling me that.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
This guy is from where the Queen keeps her horses.
The Queen feeds her own dogs and has bred a cross between corgis and dachsunds. Both are fat and prone to having their backs broken. Perhaps he was attempting to break Valle's back. His misplaced foot was an act of attempted murder. And to prove my point, I have read Perry Mason. More real Americans have read books about him than that end times series the Bell Curve guy was boasting about on the earlier thread.
I am not delusional. My teeth implants tell me that. Every morning.
Even when my tinfoil cap is straight, for the love of discourse.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Noted Karen. I just don 't agree that he honestly saw her as a physical threat. I think, given the facts, that's just a lame and very predictable excuse.
One that will be used as a defense. Why? Because that's the only viable defense strategy he has. The video is too damning.
So when you so vigorously support the position that he is delusional (suggesting he is LESS than responsible for his actions) to the point of legitimately viewing her as physical threat, you come across as defending him.
Oh, I no agree he is delusional, but only to the point that he sees his premeditated actions as justified. The notion that he is so delusional that he honestly reacted to a real threat is bullshit.
Being a asshole who thinks he's justified to beat the crap out of people and a person with a true mental illness are 2 different things.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
Essentially, if someone is found to have committed a crime under a delusion that person is technically neither guilty nor not guilty (in the conventional sense of being innocent).
Because a defendent has to be able to understand the proceedings of a trial and be able to take part in their own defense, and because there has to be concurrence between the actus reus and the mens rea, and the delusion makes both the mens rea and the concurrence problematic, the legal declaration--if all elements of the defense is proved--is usually not guilty by reason of insanity, but I think since ray gun, there's an option of guilty but insane.
Funny thing though, the M'Naghten rule would say if the defendent can understand right and wrong they can't be considered insane, although if they don't understand the concurrence between the two, they could still be insane, but sane enough to stand trial.
And modern psychology doesn't even use the term insane, that's more of a legal term only now.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Profitt was just getting started. I think Profitt was trying to find her neck with those first stomps. If that guy wouldnt have waved him off the next stomp would have come with full force on her neck. Profitt should thank the man that waved him off otherwise he may have really hurt this young woman or worse killed her.
Maybe Hallmark should start making a line of, "I'm terribly sorry that what you did to me is causing you problems" cards...
This morning on Morning Joe they showed the clip of what happened and they all condemned the jerk's actions. The thing that bothered me was they kept saying the guy "stepped on her head". A step and a stomp look very different. Mika sort of hinted that they didn't know the full story yet. Funny how none of us are in the tv news business and we already know the full story.
For this man to ask for an apology is horrid. Who the hell does he think he is, Dick Cheney after shooting a lawyer in the face?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
after all, did he not? And, based on all the complaints around here, I don't think Cheney's in jail yet.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
It was more of a step than a stomp. It's chickenshit and wrong either way (and he's doubly so when he won't show his little face on TV) but he put his foot on her head/neck and then pushed down. A stomp starts in the air and moves quickly and forcefully down until it connects. But "stomp" sells better, and "step" sounds too benign, like somebody's just getting on a bus.
All that nuance - I wonder what a jury will make of it? And besides, having someone forcefully push their foot on your head/neck without incurring injury (and lucky not a severe one) only happens in professional wrestling.
I hope she sues him for emotional distress too.
...doesn't make it any less of a stomp. What would you call it, exactly? A kick? A push, shove, nudge? She is face down on the ground, shielding herself from blows she's anticipating.
I think you must never have suffered domestic abuse, because this incident is just like that. There's not a damn thing to do but lay down and take it until you can get away. And that is the most shocking, offensive part of this entire 'incident'.
In the future, "Stomping For Fun and Profitt". /s
I would hope that this fucking Nazi brownshirt pig sees the inside of a cell in the very near future.
Maybe the arresting officers can explain the error of his ways on the way to the pokey.
1) Blame the victim
2) Blame anybody and everybody else
3) Endlessly spout pablum about personal responsibility while never actually assuming any yourself
4) When you're finally cornered, give one of those fake apologies using the magic 'IF' word
and gets called "a great American" by sean?
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
in promoting the Tim Proffit Defense Fund.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
and gets called "a great American" by sean?
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Lest anyone forget, this bagger is a major supporter of Rand Paul, who, for all his protestations that he wants the election to be about "the issues", desperately needs the election to be about anything BUT issues (given his extremist positions). So... what better in the last week of the election than a good, irresistable, DISTRACTION? Presto - commit an act of naked aggression, then demand an apology from the victim. Now what are we (and predictably all the rest of the media) going to be talking about? I'm not at all convinced that he doesn't know EXACTLY what he's doing here, or that he sincerely wants an "apology" or anything, other than a media sideshow...
- Pretzelogic in Philly, PA
And now for some feedback: Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
If that young woman takes this ********** to court his subsequent comments are nearly as damaging as his aggravated assault.
Honestly, I'd just like to see this asshat get stomped himself.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
... the hurt from a stomp is temporary, a criminal record and a bankruptcy hurts for a lifetime.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
American fascists beat up people at rallies in the 30's. Nothing has changed.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
...just a few decades ago.
So they never really went away. People just decided to look the other way and take the high road. Every now and then, the itch is there to remind us the infection is still going on...
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
and it appears that he did, then he knows that Randie wasn't danger.
If Randie feels like the left is a physical threat he can get professional guards to protect him. He'd be safer than with this moron who distracted himself beating up a non threatening female while somebody more serious could have been doing the dirty deed..
If a small unarmed female is thrown to the ground and keeled on by a much larger male, there is not need to stomp on her head. Unless your ego need that sort of thing.
But keep talking dude. So far you are only making yourself look like bigger bully and bigger horses behind.
in narcissist nation
those wars in the middle east? those belong to the shrub, not the fault of the exalted one.
banks melting down? greedy bankers, fannie mae, freddie mac, mortgage flippers, nobodies fault; and certainly not a consequence of capitalism.
this guy, he is just a product of his environment, can't be helped, nobodies fault.
tell you what, lady is lucky to be alive, guy was getting ready for a definite curb check. thank goodness for the one guy that said stop, she could be dead. kind of foolhardy going into that situation, courageous but foolhardy.
Please someone give this guy my address, I will be glad to give this guy a Rand Paul style apology. I would love to see this coward for even 5 minutes.
Yeah buddy, I'm sure the woman from the left started it all and that nobody on the right would ever be violent in anyway. I am not a violent guy but I would love someone, at least, to teach this butthead a lesson.
I've handled many domestic violence cases. This mother fucker's acts and subsequent attitude would piss off everyone in the courtroom. Full fucking denial and probably has abused women before and will do it again if not severely punished.
Yep, violent people are just that, violent. They have a history of it. I'd like to see this coward's rap sheet.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
In my state head stomping constitutes attempted murder. He should be looking for a criminal defense lawyer, instead of boasting about the act or doing the typical malignant sociopath's blaming the victim for a crime that he committed.
Rand Paul is such a dirt bag.
It's only a matter of time before these Republican scumbags send Lauren Valle death threats. Will they see this violence is out of line, or will it only encourage other right wing psychopaths to come out of the woodwork? Local right wing radio is blaming her- saying she brought the head stomping on herself.
What they did to her is what the right wingers will do to all of us, if given a given the chance..
When they come for us, we can either fall to the floor and curl into a ball, or fight back.
I agree. The right wingers will very likely attack her in some form.
What might cause them to do so? Consider the belief system in which they are operating. Consider what they must have to believe in order to do so.
It is VERY SCARY.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
What a surprise!!!!
If anything, I hope this incident makes Rand Paul's brand completely toxic among moderates and centrists. That is about the only positive outcome of this situation I can think of.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
big tough guy with a 23 year old woman. f'ing coward. try that crap with MY daughter you moron.
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