Franklin Graham: President Obama Was Born a Muslim
We've got an economy that's a mess, people who have been unemployed forever that need jobs, massive flooding in Pakistan, millions of gallons of oil and dispersants still floating in the water in the Gulf of Mexico and what is the media spending hours upon hours covering? That ginned up non-controversy over the Islamic center near ground zero and now a new poll that shows about one in five Americans think that President Obama is a Muslim. I wonder where they got that idea?
I hate that they're spending this much time on this nonsense that most people don't care about but if they're going to do it, we need to be pushing back against the lies and point out who's helping to spread them and hold the corporate media accountable when they help to push the latest right wing meme of the day and give it legitimacy.
During John King's show on CNN, Paul Begala says it's not CNN that is attributing to those poll numbers.
BEGALA: Mostly, no. You're right to just observe that as contrasted with Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter for that matter or certainly George W. Bush, this Christian president talks about his Christianity less. That perhaps makes him more like say George Bush's father, a devout Christian, a fine man who just didn't like to wear it on his sleeve as much as maybe some others.
No, in that survey, the Pew poll, most, the vast majority of people who think he's a Muslim. When you ask them why do you think that they say because of the media. And not to put too fine a point on it, they don't mean CNN, John. They mean the kook right wing media that has been attacking this president. It's fine to attack him on issues. But they're trying to attack him with any kind of crazy conspiracy theory they can.
I'd beg to differ.
A little later in the show John King brings on evangelical leader Franklin Graham who suggests that the "confusion" is being caused because President Obama was "born a Muslim" and of course if he says he's a Christian now (wink... wink) we'll just have to take him at his word that he is (but he might really be a dirty Kenyan Muslim usurper... you never know).
There are plenty of places where these rumors are being spread such as email chains, on right wing talk radio and on Fox News, but interviews like this aren't helping matters any. We got zero push back from John King against Graham's nonsense. He's really good at the false equivalency "you decide" game where he lets his viewers figure out for themselves who's telling the truth and who's spouting nonsense that should have been stopped in their tracks for telling lies but wasn't. Heaven forbid that might not make for a polite interview and we couldn't have that sort of incivility now could we?
Does anyone think John King didn't know exactly what he was going to get from Franklin Graham before he came on the air? Here's some of what happened during his encounter with then presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama back in 2008.
Franklin Graham to Obama: Are You A Muslim? (And How Obama Courted Hagee's Publisher):
News accounts about the meeting stated that Obama impressed his audience with his sincerity, depth of theological knowledge and communication skills. But according to those present, he did little to assuage the hostility that many of the assembled--particularly the conservative white evangelicals--harbor toward him and his liberal positions on social issues. As I reported this week for The Nation, those differences reached a crescendo when the Rev. Franklin Graham directly confronted Obama about his supposedly Muslim background and Christian authenticity.
Franklin Graham, son of the evangelical icon Billy Graham and head of the international Christian aid organization Samaritan's Purse, was seated next to Obama at the meeting. He peppered Obama with pointed questions, repeatedly demanding to know if the senator believed that "Jesus was the way to God or merely a way." Graham, who once incited an international controversy by calling Islam a "very evil and wicked religion," proceeded to inquire about the Muslim faith of Obama's father, suggesting that Obama himself may be a Muslim.
Graham's spokesman, Mark DeMoss, denies that Graham asked Obama about his father's Muslim faith. DeMoss did, however, confirm that Graham questioned whether the candidate believed Jesus was the only way to Heaven. "Jesus is the only way for me. I'm not in a position to judge other people," Obama responded, according to Rivers.
"They focused on abortion, gay marriage, and then Franklin Graham tried to get Senator Obama saved," said Rev. Eugene Rivers, an African-American pastor from Boston who attended the meeting. Rivers told the Religion News Service that Graham pointedly questioned Obama's "father's connections to Islam." Obama reportedly said of his father, "The least of things he was was Islamic."
You know Graham's got to still be holding a grudge for this as well. Linda Kellen Biegel at The Mudflats transcribed Graham's reaction after being turned down to speak at the National Day of Prayer and gave some of her reaction to the interview. There's a lot more there so go read the whole thing.
Army Rescinds Graham’s Invitation to National Day of Prayer (UPDATED):
They then go to a live phone interview with Graham himself. Rather than summarize and analyze Franklin Graham’s words, I believe they speak for themselves. I transcribed this interview directly from the recording–Graham’s response to Mikey Weinstein’s statement above. (In the spirit of disclosure, I have cleaned up a number of the “ands” and “uhs.”) There are two NPR reporters asking the questions– a man and a woman:
Male reporter: “Strong language from Mikey Weinstein. What’s your response to his group’s angry reaction to your invitation to the Pentagon?”
Graham: “Well, first of all, the United States, about 89% of the American people would profess to have some Christian background, connection or faith. Right now the US military is engaged in a war…in two wars…and I believe that our Nation and the men in the military need our prayer. Of course by coming to the Pentagon we’re not talking about Islam or Hindus or Buddhists. We’re just talking about men and women to pray for our Nation during this time of war. I have a son who is in Afghanistan–this is his fourth tour. He’s a graduate of West Point. I know many people in the military and we certainly want to support them with our prayers. The majority of the United States are Christians, they are not Muslims. We’re Christians and we don’t want to attack the Muslims. We don’t want to say anything bad about them. We love them and we want them to know that Jesus Christ died for their sins and rose from the grave and, if they are willing to repent of their sins and receive Christ by faith, that God will hear from heaven and heal their hearts. I want them to know the truth: that Jesus Christ is the son of the living God…”
Female reporter: “Let me interrupt you for just a moment. Mikey Weinstein’s claim is not whether or not there is a majority Christian population in this country. It’s that the US Military represents people of all faiths and that by having made anti-Islamic comments, the concern is there are people there…there are Islams in the US military who are offended by what you have said.”
Graham: “Well, you know, I’m offended by what Islam’s done, what Islam’s said. You have to understand, I know Islam very well and I work all over the world. I love the Muslim people but I disagree with the religion of Islam. I do not believe it is the truth. I don’t believe that Muhammed is a prophet of God. Now, I know they believe it and that’s fine and they can believe it. But I’m a Christian and I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of the living God…and we care for Muslim people and we love them and we want them to know the truth. So, coming to the Pentagon, we’re not attacking the Muslims, we’re praying for our Nation. So, you have a couple of people that have a fax machine and a letterhead and they’ll fax a letter to someone, making a complaint. I think it would be a slap at Christians all across this country if the Pentagon listened to these people. It would be a slap in the face of millions of American Christians, hundreds of thousands of Christian families in the military…”
Male reporter: “But you can understand why people of the Muslim faith would be insulted if you called Islam a “very evil and wicked religion,” even if only a handful of people of the Muslim faith actually carried out evil deeds. I mean, you might disagree religiously on the concept of God, but they feel insulted. How do you assuage that fear of “them” (I think he meant “theirs”) and do you agree that pehaps your son and other American troops would be in danger if you made an appearance?”
Graham: “No, let me tell you something, my son is in danger every day from Muslims that are wanting to take the lives of American troops. So, it’s not going to have anything to do with what I say or don’t say. We’re at war with Islamic Fundamentalists–that’s what we are doing and we can’t ignore that. We certainly can’t allow a few Muslims in this country to deny Christians the right to pray for its leaders and to pray for its nation. I love the Muslim people, I really do. I care for them and I work in many Muslim countries and I’ve spent tens of millions of dollars helping Muslim people…”
Female reporter: “Briefly, before we go…”
Graham: “…I care for them and love them.”
Female reporter: “You do seem to be saying, though, there’s a place for prostelytizing at the Pentagon.”
Graham: “Well this isn’t proselytizing…we’re not prostelytizing. And the Muslims, they go to the Pentagon they have Ramadan and they have Islamic prayers at the Pentagon. But here’s a handful of Muslims saying that we cannot pray at the Pentagon like they do? We can’t have the same rights in our own country? This is ridiculous! I just think it would be a slap in the face of millions…tens of millions of Christians if the Pentagon did this…and the Christian families in the US military. It would just be a real offense and I just hope that the Pentagon doesn’t even consider this. This would be a great mistake.”
Male reporter: “OK, Reverend Graham, thanks so much for joining us to present your side of the story. We appreciate it.”
Graham: “Well thank you and God bless.”
Many things struck me about this interview but several of them are worth noting:
1) I was horrified by his blatant attempts to encourage his followers to unleash their anger on the Pentagon and/or the folks doing the complaining: “It would be a slap at Christians…” “I just think it would be a slap in the face…” “It would be a real offense…” “It would be a great mistake…” Clearly, Mr. Graham has benefited from his association with Sarah Palin at least in how to generate hate AND how to play the victim card.
2) The way Graham kept repeating his ”love for the Muslim people” reminded me of someone who claims not to be racist because they have “black friends.”
3) I don’t believe I’ve EVER heard an public radio reporter actually lose their cool during an interview…however, the female reporter sure seemed to with the comment: “You do seem to be saying, though, there’s a place for proselytizing at the Pentagon.” I can’t blame her…the first time I heard this interview, I was so outraged I started making phone calls.
I decided I wanted to make it easier for you to do the same thing
Here's the transcript from the CNN interview.
ANNOUNCER: It's time to go "One-on-One".
KING: Joining us now is Franklin Graham who together with his father the Reverend Billy Graham have advised presidents dating back to Harry Truman, but there's been some controversial comments about Muslims along the way. Franklin Graham joins us tonight from Calgary (ph). Good evening, sir. I want to begin with this new poll people across America woke up to today. A Pew Research poll saying that two in 10 Americans, 18 percent think their president is a Muslim and 43 percent of Americans don't know what faith Barack Obama practices. The president came, I believe it was back in April, he came to see your father. You joined that meeting. He came to see you as well. And my understanding is that you prayed with the president at that meeting back in April.
REV. FRANKLIN GRAHAM, SAMARITAN'S PURSE: Yes.
KING: Do you, sir, have any doubts about this president's Christian faith?
GRAHAM: Well, first of all, I think the president's problem is that he was born a Muslim. His father was a Muslim. The seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim. His father gave him an Islamic name. Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the Prophet Muhammad and he has renounced Islam and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't.
So I just have to believe the president is what he has said. But he -- the confusion is, is because his father was a Muslim, he was born a Muslim. The Islamic world sees the president as one of theirs. That's why Qaddafi calls him "my son".
They see him as a Muslim but of course the president says he is a Christian and we just have to accept it as that.
KING: Well, how do you see him as someone who has shared a room with him in an intimate setting with your father and exchanged prayer with him? Do you see him -- do you believe him? I guess, I'm not sure I should be even asking that question, but do you believe him?
GRAHAM: Well, you know, you can be born a Muslim. You can be born a Jew. But you can't be born a Christian. The only way you can become a Christian is by confessing your sins to God, asking his forgiveness and by receiving Jesus Christ by faith into your heart.
That Christ died for our sins. Shed his blood on Calvary's cross and that God raised him to life. If you're willing to accept that and believe that, and let Jesus Christ be the lord of your life, God will forgive your sins, he'll heal your heart. And that's the only way you can become a Christian.
And so if the president has done that, then I would say he's a Christian if that's what he has done.
KING: In the statement the White House released saying, in response to this poll -- this is one of the things the White House said. "The president's strong Christian faith is what guides him through these challenges. But he doesn't wear it on his sleeve."
That is a personal choice. Every individual across the world makes a personal choice about whether they practice any faith.
GRAHAM: Sure.
KING: And then whether they demonstrate that they practice their faith in public. In your experience and in your experience around your father, who has obviously advised presidents back many decades, do you think that a president should be more demonstrable, more open about his faith?
GRAHAM: Well, that -- that's the president's personal choice. And I certainly wouldn't want to try to advise the president on how he should wear his faith.
For many people it's a very personal issue like it was with President Reagan. And I'm sure this is a very personal issue with the president.
I wish the president over the years have had a chance to be involved in a real strong bible-teaching church. I don't think Reverend Jeremiah's church was a place where he got all grounded in God's word.
It would have been better for him to -- you know, get into a good evangelical church. But I appreciate the president's sincerity. And -- that he's made it very clear. He's come out against it, saying he's a Christian. So I would just have to -- to let him speak for himself.
KING: You just mentioned that point about the president's church. Again, the family made a choice, and this is any family's choice, not to select a church here in Washington, D.C.
They do make a point and I'm told this by people who are around this president that when he goes to Camp David to the chapel he enjoys and prays frequently in the chapel there.
But you made that point -- you made the point about President Reagan. We judge our presidents often by their predecessors. George W. Bush was very open about his Christianity.
Compare the two, I guess, in terms of their public dealing in your view with faith.
If you've got the stomach for reading the transcript of his interview with King he went on to do some proselytizing right there on King's show. Pitiful. Obama has been reaching out to these people for years and all he's ever going to get in return is attacks. You cannot negotiate with people who's only goal is to destroy you. You play nice and you get a slap in the face in return.



to drag out some obscure A$$ENHEIMER to give another round of 'faither' bullshit.
________________
common sense matters as much as truth
I LIKE it!
man and religious leader to some..His kid is a coat tailer!..More like the tent preacher from alaska!
jking and he make a good pair...good Gop topic pushers!
Even back when I considered myself a Christian (by being brainwashed as a kid), Billy Graham creeped me out.
was a jerk who helped whitewash Nixon's crimes, and then he pulled that crap with "God's going to call me home if you don't come up with this much money!", and when they didn't come up with quite all of it, suddenly God "changed his mind". What a load of horseshit. Bilious Graham was a sleazebag, who fit right in with Nixon.
Yet another in a long line of snake oil salesman and carnival barkers - fluck him, and his son, too.
Actually that was Oral Roberts who said that
And his sister
Anal Annie...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I thought I read on here awhile back regarding Jonah Goldberg... the Mom's suppose to take the credit over the Father for nationality or something like that? I can see why Graham might not mention President Obama's American Mom...
Study the symptoms not the virus...
.
If a religious leader can come on T.V. and prosthetize his faith and make political comments from this pulpit afforded to him...
... TAX HIS CHURCH!
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
He's almost as bad as the Taliban........get ALL those churches out of Manhattan.......if they won't let a new one in...
... rest in peace, Sir, but your son is a raving nutjob.
Rest in peace my ass! Billy Graham is just as big of a scum bag as his kid, Jerry Falwell, and all the rest of these non-denominational ,money grubbing pieces of shit! If we taxed these pukes, most, if not all, of these parasites would disappear!
But they might run out of space over at FOX News ...
.
The nut did not fall far from the nut tree...
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
are just two examples of male reporters on cable TV who are dim bulbs, but have lantern jaws.
...but a serious one.
that has a ring to it.
________________
common sense matters as much as truth
In education, it's not uncommon for teachers to believe that any curriculum is as good as the next, and any intervention for kids with disabilities is as good as any other. All this despite the overwhelming evidence that would champion one curriculum or one intervention above the rest. As one writer put it, there seems to be an 'egalitarian virus' among many educators, who immediately equate facts and research results with opinion.
I think that is happening everywhere. Americans right now are just as muddle-headed as they can be, and the media with their false equivalencies and inability to openly say, "No, that is not true!" simply adds to the problem.
So now, the president says "I'm a Christian" and some nut says he was "born a Muslim," and our media presents this as two legitimate sides to a "debate" or "controversy?" Un-freakin-believable.
Beware of anyone promising a future full of yesterdays.
... we ignored Edward R. Murrow ('it is foolish to believe that there are two, equally valid and reasonable sides to every argument') and instead listened to Rush Limbaugh.
The assault on America's critical thinking skills has been long in the making.
The dumbing down of America is a reality.
.. and students are every bit as qualified as the teachers to decide what the course content should be ..
after all, they are the "consumers" of the education industry ..
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
That's why I'm investing all my money in online colleges, ultimate fighting, and right-wing radio! The consumers have spoken.
Beware of anyone promising a future full of yesterdays.
Graham says" Islam is a wicked and evil religion"? If that's true Rev. how would you rate your book, you know, the big book of fairy tales, written by a white ,invisible, male elf who not only knows all, sees all, but, also LIVES in the sky? Oh I know what that's called, it's called science fiction!
... Graham also says, "He says he's a Christian now."
Translation: A Muslim cannot ever become a Christian, and I have the final say on what qualifies as a good or true Christian.
...is his explicit assumption that it takes a mindful, repentent adult to CHOOSE Christianity, whereas Islam and Judaism are an inherited birthright. So one religion is the product of soul-searching and redemption, the others are just birth defects, like jaundice or an over-bite.
Why the hell was Graham brought on to discuss anything on television?
Beware of anyone promising a future full of yesterdays.
was a repuglyKKKan favorite!
________________
common sense matters as much as truth
First of all, unlike Jews, Muslims have expanded enormously through conversion. There is no tradition I know of in Islam that having an Islamic father makes you autormatically Islamic, as in Judaism.
Second of all, I thought that it was Obama's GRANDFATHER who was a Muslim, with the father having converted to Christianity.
Even so we do not believe in this country that religion is inherited, so why does this guy grab headlines with such nonsense/
MyMy
I think many of them would say Obama's a muslim even if the media never discussed it. The GOP is the source of the rumor and part of our population doesn't see truth as being anything but what you believe in the most.
are attacking like rabid dogs.
________________
common sense matters as much as truth
servant of Israel... The list of wacky theories about Obama is endless.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Just to be safe I throw rocks at the black helicopters.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
... but then there was some kind of misty contrail thing and I felt much better and went inside to watch Glenn Beck.
yeaaaah, those are all just "wacky theories"
*smacks head*
barry sotero is a corporatist tool. he sure as hell is a servant of israel,just like the senate and congress. did you see the video of that piece of shit nuttyyahoo bragging that he can make the u.s. do anything he wants?i got a mailer from jeff greene today let me quote this; "as a senator,i will defend OUR isreali prime minister no matter who is the adversary. too fuckin bad that a goddamn bunch of camel jockeys can dictate our countries policies.
More here.
BTW, Netenyahu said that 9 years ago. Who was the POTUS in 2001? Do you remember?
And "camel jockeys"? Really?
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
have been taken from just-ins brains. in choiring mined want to no.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Bite me, with the "Barry Sotero" crap, all right?
that's fucking idiotic. So is anyone that uses it. Dumbassed bullshit.
Oooooh 'Barry Sotero' Total slam. More like EPIC FAIL, justin idiot.
me-oww!
Is Obama a Muslim or satan?
How can he be both?
(Graham is an asshat without the hat)
:)
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
was born a Jew.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
the guy died a Jew too. He was a rabbi, not a priest. There was no Christianity til he died.
me-oww!
... ironically, had he been an actual rabbi there could have existed some factual historical record of his actual existence. Romans and Jewish clerics at that time were really good as record keepers.
One of the few great accomplishments of Christianity is that they managed to one up the Jews in regards to made up nonsensical silly stories passed up as historical fact.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
and responsible for life, as they believe, - aren't we all born Christians, and then go on to be whatever after that?
I've seen some stuff, man. And some thangs...
"aren't we all born Christians"
Yes, of course, all of us white, straight, english speaking, wealthy, church going, gawd fearin', war loving Christians were born Christian - obviously.
/snark
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
... we're all born atheist. An infant can't decide what it believes, after all, and the child isn't baptized until much later.
pissed. It was nice in there. We were comfortable. And now this happens.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
human.
me-oww!
tendency.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
that's drunk pissed, not angry pissed, right?
:D
me-oww!
Catholics and Methodists (and probably others) baptise as infants quickly after birth. I still have my certificate - I was just a few days old.
But I agree - the idea that you are born anything faith-wise is silly.
I've seen some stuff, man. And some thangs...
While they attack Obama, George Bush Sr. gets a free pass for meeting with a family member of Bin Laden on the morning of 9/11 etc. It's funny how the perceived weak get attacked and the perceived strong get passes. Crazy world we live in.
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
the Mormons steal our souls with secret baptisms after we die anyway.
And you can't do dick about it.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
what religion is Beck again?
What person in their right mind cares if he's a Muslim?
Our neighbors all went bats**t crazy back in 60' when Kennedy was elected. "The pope is gonna run the country."
Same morons, different era.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
Kennedy was a non-practicing Christian.
He professed to be Christian, but as far as living it in his life, he was not.
He said one thing, but did another.
In that, there is a link to Obama. Obama says one thing, "I'm a Christian", but acts like a Muslim.
What's more important, someone's words, or their actions? !
- He supports mosques, participates in ramadan, BOWS to the king of Saudi Arabia, and more... but does virtually NOTHING to honor Christianity. And in fact, has snubbed it in multiple ways.
He also, in essence, professed to be a muslim in an interview, in 2007. Something that non-muslims dont realise, but won him big points in the muslim community, I'm sure.
He recited the Muslim "Call to prayer". Which in its first words, gives the "profession of faith" of a Muslim, and is the declaration of a convert to Islam.
Obama's words, in new york times, 2007:
http://*******.com/25we278
[ synopsis: "I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet... "]
How to convert to Islam, in a Muslim's view:
http://islam.about.com/od/converts/ht/convert...
[ synopsis: Have an intent to be a good muslim, and say the above words ]
"He supports mosques" what, like a load-bearing wall?
"BOWS to the king of Saudi Arabia" yeah, ask ANY muslim and they will tell you that THAT is the sign of being a true muslim, showing deference to the house saud.
"NOTHING to honor Christianity" no, nothing? bupkus? zilch?
jesus weeps
http://sayitaintsoalready.com/2009/04/15/geor...
Yes. I'd like to see a poll that was more like this:
Is Obama...
1) Muslim
2) Christian
3) Don't know
4) Don't friggin care so stop bothering me.
far left loon >.<
I thought the premise of Christianity was that if one found Christ, one was saved. Hitler had a different theory -- that if one was born Jewish (or had some Jewish ancestry), the religion practiced by that individual was irrelevant and they remained Jewish. (At least the Spanish royalty who proclaimed the expulsion of Jew in 1498 offered the alternative of accepting Chrisitianity or explusion.)
If Graham's premise is that if Obama was "born" a muslim, and thereby remains a muslim, I don't see why he's spending so much time and raising so much money to run around converting folks to Christianity.
You're confusing the ends and the means. He's not raisng money to convert folks to Christianity. He's converting folks to Christianity in order to raise money.
the neoCONs/republicans are taking no chances they will hit obama everytime they can. to me this is ridiculous but of course these rumors will take hold with certain demographics ie. evangelicals.
These fanatics are in their death throws.
The ironic thing, is that if Obama would have been FDR instead of DLC republican-lite, these people would be facing political extinction now.
Regardless; when the tea bagger candidates go down in flames, and the huge GOP resurgence turns out to be another MSM GOP propaganda epic fail - 1998 all over again - what's the next trick up their sleeves gonna be?
Frankly, the only thing scary about Obama, is that he's a republican wannabee.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
... they're like cockroaches. Turn on the light, and they scurry away. They'll be back.
Most of 'em are even prepared for global war and widespread death as the world marches on to their little Rapture party, but they're not worried, because the Magical Sky Bus will come down and pick them up ...
Thank you.
How about death spiral?
Of course these religious nuts will always be around, but I was talking about their political power waning.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
I heard today someone complain that Muslims are attempting to take over the Whole World!
Yikes! Isn't that Christianity's goal? How dare they presume...
I hope this controversy pulls back the curtain on the Christian establishment. If their religion is so great, why are they so worried about Islam?
No free market of ideas.
Not for them.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
I'll take Jesus and the 7 point spread.
Especially if Allah is still nursing that sore hamstring.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
"A fatwa has just been proclaimed against 'Tax the Rich'. More news at 11:00."
is the equivalent of Nero playing the fiddle while Rome burned.
Easy test: Have a press conference of Obama having a nice pork rib dinner, washed down with copius amounts of beer - both forbidden in Islam.
I've seen some stuff, man. And some thangs...
No small wonder we are fatter.
;)
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
So what if he was a Muslim? What difference would it make? And no I'm not saying that he was, just what difference would it make if he were Jewish or Muslim or whatever.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
If he is associated with Islam he is associated with terrorists or is it still socialists or Marxist.
There is no logic just fear.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
the problem associated with the fact that Barack Obama was "born a Muslim" is how the Muslim world perceives him.
Muslims throughout the rest of the world believe that when one is born a Muslim that that person, regardless of any "conversions" to other religions, will always be a Muslim.
According to Muslim law, Obama has committed a sin that is punishable by stoning/beheading.
So the concern this NYT writer had was that Obama would be in danger when traveling to any Muslim countries:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opinion/12l...
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Philadelphia, Ms.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
by not flaunting his perceived muslimism could be killed by any Islamic fanatic as a christian infidel or impeached by the Christian right, for being born a muslim .....doesn't get any weirder than this! Enjoyed Jon Stewart's Jesus team vs Mohammad team last night....Why not have more GAMES between these two to bring out the freaks and kooks?
Video captures from ThinkProgress2:
Media: Maybe Obama Should Go To Church More
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
... one of them radical socialist anti-American churches with commie terrorist bastards like Jeremiah Wright preaching against white folk.
Which is he?
An evil Christian following Wright's brand of Xtianity?
Or an evil Muslim (cuz they're all evil)?
========
Actually, Obama's brand of American Exceptionalism rooted in Evangelical Christianity IS bothersome to me. Same brand of Xtianity as Hillary and the whole C Street crowd.
Now THAT is a topic worth discussing cuz it cuts to the heart of America's notion of Manifest Destiny - our right, nay our Destiny to spread our marvelous corporate "democracy" to the rest of the planet one subjugated nation at a time, in the name of Jesus and God and Everything Sacred, of course.
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
Islamic countries didn't have so much oil under their ground, nobody would give a shit what their religion is.
Ask a wing-nut how they would like it if a foreign country were to invade their town and take over, stealing their resources and having a bunch of goons appointed by the foreigners run their government?
Typical response is birds chirping or du....a...ah.....bduh.....,
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
It's just their misfortune that OUR oil is under THEIR houses.
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
oil will follow. They're just Oily Taints.
and the Catholics vs the Protestants weren't related to oil either!
He was an ancient Jewish hero. You can read his story in books 4 and 5 of Judges.
...of Presidents having to kiss the butts of the Faithers!!! I know it isn't going to happen in my lifetime, but I WISH an Atheist OR a Deist (like me & MOST of the founding Fathers) would get elected President. That way, they wouldn't have to play the role of Pander Bear, & pretend to believe in something that maybe they really don't.
P.S. I really believe that Prez Obama is 100% Christian, but that doesn't make him look any better in MY eyes. I gladly voted for him, but lately, I've been getting a HUGE case of buyers remorse. I'm one PISSED OFF progressive!!! He's acting more & more like a Repuke in (Liberal) Democratic clothing every day...
Just wait a minute, who ya' gonna believe, Gibbs, or your own lying eyes?
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
I'd like to see a 1 on 1 between Frank Schaeffer Jr
and Frankie Graham. I think The Most High Revered
And Sainted Reverend Graham would start to compare
father stories for 2 minutes before they'd go at it.
Schaefer might crank his thumb at Graham and say,
"You followed your father and I didn't and isn't all the nonsense about
Obama being a Moslem a cheap shot and freaking disgustingly
stupid way of trying to get Karl Rove to notice you & maybe give
you a spot on Fox News.
...always creep me out. Anyone who talks about praying to a magical invisible entity with entreaties creeps me out, but that's just my personal opinion.
... nor read all the coents,
BUT
How often did he say that 'Jebus died for our sins', or 'he gave his only son'.
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
Took my Jewish girlfriend.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
..and cheney is the gray lord (Ozzie is the Dark Lord!)
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxy9-Em2z68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hoqa5Asp2g&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Anybody watching the news? Any more Dem's sell out the base on the mosque thing? I am itching for a symbollic stoning of their ball- less spine-less asses through pithy blog commentary.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
I got my pile of commentary rocks right here. BTW, the fish I had last night was fit for Jehovah.
me-oww!
.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
or windex?
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Stoning
me-oww!
I believe my belief is better than your belief. Prove me wrong.
Franklin Graham says he's a heterosexual... (wink wink)
My reply when being told Obama is a Muslim, "so am I, do you have a problem with that?"
"Did You Know?"
Both President Barack Obama's Parents Were Atheists?
Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. (4 April 1936 - 24 November 1982) was a Kenyan senior governmental economist, and the father of the 44th President of the United States Barack Obama.
Although Obama Sr. was born into a Muslim and Christian family, he became an atheist as a young man. At the age of 23, Obama Sr. enrolled at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. He had abandoned Islam; he was an atheist by the time he moved to the United States.
Stanley Ann Dunham in 1960
Maxine Box, Dunham's best friend in high school, said that Dunham "touted herself as an atheist, and it was something she'd read about and could argue. She was always challenging and arguing and comparing. She was already thinking about things that the rest of us hadn't." However, Dunham's daughter, Maya Soetoro-Ng, when asked later if her mother was an atheist, said, "I wouldn't have called her an atheist. She was an agnostic. She basically gave us all the good books --- the Bible, the Hindu Upanishads and the Buddhist scripture, the Tao Te Ching, Sun Tzu --- and wanted us to recognize that everyone has something beautiful to contribute." "Jesus, she felt, was a wonderful example. But she felt that a lot of Christians behaved in un-Christian ways."
Barack Obama, Sr. Born 4 April 1936
Kanyadhiang village, Rachuonyo District, Kenya Colony Died 24 November 1982 (aged 46)
Nairobi, Kenya
Kenya Nationality British Kenyan
Alma mater University of Hawaii
Harvard University Occupation Economist Known for Father of U.S. President Barack Obama
Religion Islam, later Atheist
but what, sir, was their faith when they concocted the birth certificate scam?
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
the prophet muhammed wrote over 1400 yrs. ago that there should be toleration/peace with/of people of different faith. turkey, considered to be by some the place where the chrisitan religion started/took hold is 99% muslim. christians have been forced out of turkey and the ones that remain are treated like second class citizens. so intolerance still prevails between many christians and muslims. a concern by the followers of islam is usury........which the i believe the christian church doesn't approve but does not speak against......some say that's because of the generous tax deductions granted the church. islam doesn't approve of usury and they see it coming.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=675475...
You're confusing the ends and the means. He's not raisng money to convert folks to Christianity. He's converting folks to Christianity in order to raise money.
Well I was born to a Baptist and a Theosophist, and raised a Mormon, now look at me...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
.
I always thought it should be Bloviatingsky
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oRL1pIp8qA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDSu0-qDFQ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JBeZUwhAqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=act6JIFZG-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5GEg0D0ZY4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v0iVja6ZFk
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
is a real toe-tapper
insightful, but confused?
so one day if there still is a civilization they can look back and say the dark ages were still going strong in the early 21st century.
Hey Jon King and CNN, who the fuck cares what an evangelical cult leader thinks!!!!!!!!!!
According to this Islamic web site, Billy Graham was also "born a Muslim" and so is every one else from an Islamic perspective.
http://www.islamicnetwork.com/index.php/weblo...
According to Christian theology, Mr. Graham was born an enemy to God, an evil sinner who was destined for Hell. He was a pagan, a misfit, a non believing heathen, if you will.
But he is a Christian now.
See how fun it is to destroy someone, then add a 'but' clause to it?
Honestly, why would it matter what he was born as? I am more worried what he(obama) is now (and not necessarily in terms of faith, but character and leadership)
These hateful assholes are too accostumed to talking down to racist ignoramouses.
So 2 in 10 Americans are ignorant idiots. Big surprise.
So, no that CNN is searching out guests that not even Cluster-Fox will use anymore because they are just fundamentally too extreme even for Rupe's raiders.... Franklin Graham is a MORON.. AND, anyone on or off teevee that hears or sees him is a MORON as well... That makes CNN (all inclusive) MORONS.
In Arthurian days, they were called Musselmen.
So why do I keep getting the impression of a really buff Bedouin kissing his own bicep?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I prefer bearded clam.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
I prefer my clams beardless and innocent looking...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
;-)
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
"Elk Stocking Debate Continues"
I say, if the elk want to wear stockings, let them!
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/311630243...
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
look like a taco,smell like a fish.....got four lips and still can't kiss
....the fools do not realize,a population that can ,..... not paticipate .............in the 'economy'...,can not keep it viable!..........."we are listening,.......and we're not blind.,......this is your life....this is your time."
“Oh what a tangled web we weave...
What happened to Air America (radio network)
Ethics Office Clears C Street House In Rent Probe
If this gets shot down by the SCOTUS... you can rest assured who is running the BIG-SHOW
PS. Great work Heather ♥
Study the symptoms not the virus...
To be technical, genetically, aren't we all conceived female?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Chucky?
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
There are two choices here:
1) Obama's parents, grandparents, the Kapi'olani Medical Center, two major newspapers (the Advertiser and the Star-Bulletin) conspired 49 years ago to make it appear that Obama was born in Hawaii. The Muslims were way ahead of the curve, and knew that one day, the original terror-baby would come to power.
There was a team of secret handlers that helped craft his cover. They kept his mother poor and on food stamps to make it seem like he was just another disadvantaged kid in America. They rigged it so he got into Harvard, and fudged his grades to make him look intelligent.
Part of his cover was for him to sit in a Baptist church for a couple of decades to hid his true identity as the Musliminator.
2) He was born in Hawaii like his birth certificate and birth announcements say. He grew up poor and worked his ass off to excel academically, gave back to the community as a community organizer, and he's been attending a Christian church throughout his adult life, which probably means he's really a Christian.
Gee...which version to believe....
the corporatist tool of Repubs part?
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
have to force feed the Kool Aid.
"He grew up poor"?
His Banking Grandma sent him to a school with a fine heritage...
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Just a small comment on a small section:
"he's been attending a Christian church throughout his adult life"
does NOT definitely equate with "probably means he's really a Christian."
Sadly, there are many, many people who have "attended church all their lives", but show no evidence of being a Christian.
"A Christian" means "a follower of Jesus Christ", not "sits in a building for an hour now and again".
No-where in the Bible is it written, "And Lo, Jesus spake thusly; Sit ye in My house, for an hour a week... and then for the rest, shall it Be All Good! Yea, Verily..."
hides a larger point it seems you're trying to make: that being, even though you concede he has been a regular church goer, he is still not christian b/c he has not been a 'follower of christ'.
out curiousity, what gives you the credentials to make that call?
No no better.These are little mind inbred Racist, Nazi that have a power trip on twisting the truth.
You have hit the nail on the head.
One more question since McCain was born in Panama and Arizona DID NOT become a State for another year, is this simple minded Hate and Fear Mongering old fool a American.
This is from one of the sects associated with Frank Graham and "The Family".
PS. Loving people from all faiths should be concerned with "The Family", even some End-Timers...
Whom ever could score a honest interview with Franklin Schaeffer concerning the "The Family" would gain great insight to what's going on...
Study the symptoms not the virus...
... it sure looked as though Franklin Graham was trying to perpetuate the erroneous idea that Obama is a muslim by saying he was "born" a muslim. But what do you expect from Graham. he's delusional.
I was not aware any of us were born with a religion.
And CNN, while reporting that 20% of Americans think he's a muslim, sure don't seem to be contradicting the notion. They are doing their typical job of presenting any issue with two sides as being 50-50.
.
TAX HIS CHURCH!
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
How about his non-profit... "The SP does not stand for Sarah Palin but the plane is owned by Samaritans Purse.?
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Haven't we had enough of these creeps yet?
Christianity. What a damnable disgrace.
I'm a conservative, so take this for what it's worth. But it seems to me that we're seeing the downside of Obama's blank-slate image. He himself once said that he's like a movie screen onto which his admirers and detractors alike tend to project whatever they want to see. This can be very useful to a politician when he's on the rise, and has lots more fans than critics. But when he starts to slip, this lack of a strong, clearly defined self can only hurt. It's hard to imagine questions like these about a Clinton or a Carter, much less a Nixon or a Reagan. We pretty much knew who these guys were. It's still not entirely clear who Obama is. I think even his supporters rallied round mainly because he seemed so refreshingly left of center and so electable. I don't think it was because they really felt they knew the guy.
Am I off the beam here? Thanks.
The fundies don't like... "You know, my faith is one that admits some doubt."--B.O.
Must of got that from Mom ♥
Study the symptoms not the virus...
You knew this clown would enter the fray sooner than later. Does that say Satans Purse in the banner. also does this mean that Hitler was a Christian??
Study the symptoms not the virus...
that judge not lest you be judged part of religion. Use the parts you like and ignore the rest.
That's a bad translation. It really was, "Condemn not, lest you be condemned".
The bible calls us to "judge" right from wrong all the time.
So Xians can't serve on death penalty juries?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Study the symptoms not the virus...
''The ground at the foot of the cross is level....''
Billy Graham was an integrationist. He went against his Southern Baptist base by declaring, early on, that the 1953 Supreme Court ruling on Brown vs. The Board of Education was correct. It came as a great and pleasant surprise to those of us in the NAACP that he continued to forcefully condemn the evils of racial segregation. He and Martin Luther King, Jr. even preached to the same audiences from the same stage on more than one occasion. It can be argued that his was an important moral force in the civil rights movement.
The son? Not so much.
Here is a true story about your phony ass christians and applies directly to this speakers father. 1968, oh yes the mighty self serving, pubilicty seeking christian billy gramham i9s in Viet Nam, he is going to teach Hatred and Intolerance in a different way. Oh! did I mention they were giving away free, toiletries and other sundey items, lets not forget about some types of food rations for those that were displaced. Well here is the low down I and my squad laid in 100+ degree temperatures providing security while they held the people hostage,yes hostage you see the people coulkd not get anything till later in the evening when the sun started to set and they accepted the christian jesus, thast said and done, they accepted, received their gifts, then were hit with a barage of 120mm rockets that evening. Oh! the Vietnamese took this as a sign NOT to reject their GODS and went back to numerology, astralogy, palm reading, bumps on the head reading oh mr. gramham he declared his tour a complete success and left in a few days as for us slobs providing the safety the fool never knew we were there.
So now his Intolerant, Hate and Fear Mongering Clown of a son wants to come out with his HATE baiting Racist Nazi commenmts with NO fact, just inuendo, here is a hint folks North Carolina, does that say anything. Blacks are uppity when educated, look at the sorry ass leadership and self serving leadership to see why this Nazi, Racist is allowed to utter his HATRED. Thats right his make believe god or jesus said he cou;ld do it.
Through and through, they call him a man of GOD,what a ridiculous destructive comment and a liar,this man is scum that grows under scum.criticizing and condemning GOD'S law.
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