Bill Kristol: If You Like the Government’s Swine Flu Program You’ll Love Pelosi-Care
By Heather Sunday Nov 01, 2009 12:18pm
From Fox News Sunday, Bill Kristol is hoping that people will see the lines for H1N1 vaccines and come to the conclusion that the government can't run anything properly. As Juan Williams points out, that's what happens when you have Republicans who don't believe in government running things and don't want government to work as we saw in George's Bush's complete indifference to the plight of the victims were during Hurricane Katrina. Williams should have also pointed out to him that Republicans managed to make sure FEMA worked pretty well when it benefited them politically in Florida.
As Williams also noted, these are private companies working with the government that failed to deliver the vaccines in the time frame promised. Fox News and much of the rest of the media seem to have a problem deciding on whether to fear monger about whether vaccines are safe or not and people being forced to get them as Jon Stewart pointed out not long ago on The Daily Show and complaining about them not being delivered fast enough. Now we've got Kristol conflating receiving vaccinations to the government being capable of administering health insurance.
Wallace: Bill you’ve never liked the Democratic health care plan in its various iterations and you especially don’t like this version. In fact you say it combines the most unpopular Democratic and Republican proposals in the last generation.
Kristol: Right, it’s got the Medicare cuts that almost doomed the Gingrich revolution in 1995, the Pelosi Medicare cuts dwarf the Gingrich Medicare cuts of 1995 and it’s got tax hikes—the tax hikes which the Clintons and the Democratic Congress passed on a party line vote in 1993 that cost them the Congress in 1994. And Nancy Pelosi has pulled off a great feat; you called it a compromised vote. It’s like a compromise between awful and horrendous you know. She’s combined tax hikes and Medicare cuts in the same bill in a bill that does nothing to improve the average Americans’ health care or to improve the cost of the average Americans’ health insurance. It’s an amazing feat that she’s done and now she’s pushing this bill, this huge government take over of the health care system at the moment when we have an experiment, an ongoing experiment in government health care—the swine flu epidemic—an emergency the president called it.
If you like how the government’s run swine flu with lines and cues and promises that haven’t come through in terms of having the vaccines available—if you like the government’s swine flu program, you’ll love Pelosi-Care.
Wallace: Let me…before you go on I just want to ask you a follow up on that Bill. Do you believe—I mean and it’s a good debating point for your side—but do you believe that the frustration that people are feeling with the swine flu vaccine and the fact that they’re not able to get it the way they thought they were going to be able to—do you think that could actually hurt the move for health care reform?
Kristol: Yeah, they’re not getting it the way they were told they were going to be able to…
Wallace: Right.
Kristol: …by the Obama administration and I think it could. It could be one of those moments where it sort of crystallizes in a vivid set of scenes on the local evening news each night a vivid set or experiences—actual pregnant moms who I know a couple who have been waiting in line for two hours and they’re told sorry we’ve run out and you can’t get shots for yourself and for your two little toddlers and you know, go take your chances. It makes vivid what government run health care will be like.
Wallace: Bill Kristol’s on the side of pregnant moms and little toddlers.
Williams: Well you can’t beat that…mothers and apple pie and baseball. But I must say that there’s a huge difference between Hurricane Katrina and government failure and what we’re seeing here in terms of the delivery of the vaccine. This is a matter of private manufacturers living up to promises, problems in terms of the delivery system.
So that’s something where you could say the Obama administration might have foreseen it and done a better job of preparing for it but I don’t think most Americans are blaming the Obama administration for this as they blamed, that they said that President Bush’s administration failed to properly understand or pay attention to what FEMA was not doing with regard to helping Americans with Katrina. But coming back to the health care debate, I don’t think it has any impact on the health care debate. I don’t think anybody is connecting the two except people who want to just be obstructionists and don’t want anything to happen and like the status quo and don’t want to help Americans get health insurance, which is Bill Kristol.
Kristol: Thank you.
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The number one reason that some government programs are not perfect is that they are underfunded. The number one reason they are underfunded is that Republican fight to either kill them or underfund them. The Spanish Flu killed tens of millions worldwide. The H1N1 has the same potential. Trying to kill vaccination programs for political reasons is not only stupid it is dangerous. Government run vaccination programs against Polio and Smallpox got rid of these deadly diseases.
The swine flu vaccine semi shortage or lateness has nothing to do with the government. Fuck Billy "The Bloody". What is funny is the way Billy "The Bloody" is just using and punking and manipulating The Palin base.
"Boy, the food at this place is really terrible...and such small portions." Thank you, Woody Allen.
How can the WH be responsible for the withholding of the vaccine by the drug manufacturers? Would Big Pharma do this on purpose to gin up aggravation? I think the answer is, "Yes, they would."
And why don't we take a look at who controls these private companies. Well lo and behold a bunch of wealthy right wing freaks that want the Obama administration to fail. Gee who could have anticipated that.
Would anyone interview someone that has been consistently WRONG about EVERYTHING that comes out of its little pea brain?
What is the purpose? Oh, it's False Noise, that explains it.
it'd be all Obama's fault for being wasteful.
Wingnuts like KKKristol are just sickening.
The food sucks. And the portions are so small.
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that the private sector and the free market fails, it's private companies that are not delivering on the vaccine.
Private, right wing owned companies FAIL again.
number of students that have gotten the flu. If the pharma industry catches up by December, many people will have already gotten the flu and be uninterested in getting the vaccine. But as tax payers we will still have to pay for it.
I wouldn't blame the companies for the delay. The essential problem is that the flu vaccine production process is terribly slow and labor intensive.
Another meeting of the "minds"...the Oreo and the Warmonger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa69puS7J0Q
...Williams to defend you, you're in deep trouble.
To the extent there is a shortage of swine flu vaccine -- and it does sound like there is a shortage -- Obama has to take full responsibility for the failure to deliver adequate supplies in a timely fashion. He promised....
I heard Axlerod the other day say that the administration had made its promises based on faulty representations made to it by vaccine producers. Well, duh. Obama needs to be able to explain why, among other things, he would take the word of vaccine manufacturers and why his own experts couldn't have foreseen the shortage.
Vaccine production is (or has been) a process that requires time. Newer methods of production may speed things up, but if you're relying on chickens, well, good luck. I don't think Obama had any obligation to deliver what couldn't be delivered. But if it was physically possible, then he can't blame someone else.
The question isn't "Did he deliver?" The question is "Did he deliver what he promised?" The answer appears to be no.
Bloody Billy, one of the four or five worst human beings on Earth, is almost never right about anything important. However, if the question is did Obama deliver the vaccine in the amounts he promised, then like the stopped clock, Billy may get free credit for being right this time.
After Katrina, this is a place where Obama could have really distinguished himself from George "Heckuva job, BrownieBush. Over-promising was something Obama needed to avoid at all costs. Who knows, maybe the vaccine manufacturers want Obama to fail just as much as Billy and the Republicans do and they deliberately misrepresented what they could deliver (or deliberately didn't produce what they promised). In the end, what matters (unless there is proof of corporate duplicity -- what a shock that would be, huh?) is did Obama come through? It looks like the answer is no.
Every child's death will be fodder for the GOP's vultures to use against Obama. The thing that too many Democrats don't seem to appreciate (and I hope Obama isn't one of them) is that if you want to argue that government can get the job done, you have to prove it.
This was a perfect setup for all concerned. Depending on how things play out, Obama can show that government works or prove that all it can do is provide empty promises. Republicans can argue that it isn't just Republicans who can govern competently -- it really is all government that sucks. What lefties needed to hope for was for Obama to come through and have people tripping over flu vaccine in the aisles of their local supermarkets.
Unfortunately, the MSM's reporting is so lame that I can't find any real perspective. Something like a thousand kids have died so far from Swine Flu. In the past I've read that something like 30,000 to 40,000 people, mostly old and with secondary health issues, die annually in the US from influenza. Young people appear to be more at risk with this flu, but is 1,000 deaths at this point high? It sounds like it is.
Another statistic I heard reported was that 90% of the deaths have been among people under 65. Of course, I don't know what the comparable statistic is during "normal" flu seasons. That tells me nothing by itself. What if 99% of those deaths under 65 were among people between the ages of 60 and 64?
That virtually every country on the planet is having trouble delivering vaccine including Canada.
I just don't understand how you can blame Obama. That is simply not fair. "Oh Really" has it 100% wrong, 0% correct on this.
Obama is responsible for what he promises. Barring the showing of foul play on the part of vaccine manufacturers, Obama is responsible for delivering on his promise. He could have promised anything he wanted to promise. No vaccine. Ten times as much as what we need. But if you aren't going to hold a politician responsible for delivering what he or she promises to deliver then what, exactly, does accountability mean?
I want Obama to succeed. But if he says to me, "Watch, I'll show you how different I am from Bush, I'll make sure the country is prepared to deal with the Swine Flu pandemic we expect to see in the fall," and then he fails to deliver on his promise, what am I to think? It's OK because he's a Democrat and Republicans are mean and nuts.
Apparently, having accountability is only for members of the "other" party.
Obama is not responsible for there not being enough vaccine. He's responsible for having promised there would be enough and then failing -- by whatever means -- to make sure he deliverd on his promise.
Before promising us anything, I expect Obama to analyze the situation and taking into account all eventualities, along with their relative likelihood, to explain to the American people what they can expect for the fall. That includes, the unforeseen -- which is seldom truly unforeseen. It's really more unexpected, than unforeseen. It was no secret that increasing production to much higher than normal levels would not be easy. I want a realistic appraisal from the president, complete with realistic likelihoods of meeting various goals.
Unlike most Americans, I don't need to be babied and told what I want to hear. After watching the performance of the United States over the past couple of decades, I no longer can pretend that we are a highly competent society capable of meeting high standards under poor conditions. We aren't. When the president recognizes that and levels with the American people about it, he (or she) will have begun to remedy the mess we've become.
I'm not mad at Obama. I'm not "blaming" him or calling for him to be impeached. I want him to begin to face the sad reality about this country and do something to fix it.
What do I want him to promise? To do his best. To be honest. To forget about the hyper-can do-we're Americans bullshit. What we are is a joke. Alone among the developed countries of the world we allow people to die for lack of health care; alone we allow people to be devastated financially because of health care costs; and alone we continue to pretend that we, and we alone, are somehow this amazing society that achieves at levels others can only dream about. We've built a completely unsustainable economy based on greed, selfishness, and insatiable consumption. Of course, private enterprise has failed. My God, look what private enterprise does in this country. It builds unneeded weapons, endless quantities of junk foods, mountains of virtually worthless consumer garbage, and all while shipping real manufacturing jobs elsewhere and substituting lousy paying service sector jobs for the kinds of jobs that built the American middle class.
We've known for decades that another flu pandemic was on the way. We were too busy attacking other countries and trashing the environment to worry about getting ready. Almost ten years ago, Laurie Garrett wrote a book -- "Betrayal of Trust" -- about the collapse of global public health systems. What have we done since then? We've continued to pretend that building the F-22 will make us safer than building up our public health systems. We've continued to pretend that a person can get adequate health care at an emergency room. We, as a country, have failed miserably. And everyone who is playing by the old rules (and that includes Obama) is contributing to our failure.
Obama would rather argue with Olympia Snowe about backing wholly inadequate health reform legislation than propose real solutions to real problems. Is he the big villain? No, just the latest American president who doesn't have the guts to lead. Leading is not taking us where we want to go, or following the path of least resistance. It is identifying what needs to be done and doing everything (including risking losing the next election) that needs to be done no matter what. That hardly describes Obama.
If Obama promised to have enough vaccine ready to meet the demand, then he should be held to that promise. In Japan, a failure like that might lead to the resignation of a government official (like it would be a big loss if Sebelius resigned); in the US it results in Captain Kangeroo boohooing about how unfair oh really is to Obama.
The problem isn't my criticism of Obama; or even his failure to fulfill his promise. Rather, it's Obama's certain knowledge that no matter what he promises, no matter what he delivers, he'll be forgiven by his supporters. Likewise, he'll be vilified by the Wingers no matter how well he performs.
We can't make Republicans stop acting insane, but we certainly can refuse to follow their mindless blind-support- for-our-side-no-matter-what routine.
out to you that the bought off politicians in DC do not care what you think or say or do. They only care about the money they receive from the corporate masters, and if you don't realize that pretty quickly, NOTHING will save any of us. This country is very close to being completely controlled by a small group of people, those with most of the money in the US, and very shortly, December to be precise, when SCOTUS rules that corporations have no limits on the campaign contributions they may make to politicians, the take-over will be complete. Please think about what I am saying, and do some research. If you do not see it, you are not looking hard enough.
...of the bought-offness [sic] of the DC politicians when you were still knee high to a grasshopper...oh, whatever.
What seems to go unnoticed is that the only way things will change is if people start changing things. If Obama is going to assure the people that the wondrous American corporation is going to deliver vaccine, then he had better be prepared to see to it that they deliver.
Public health is not a private responsibility, but Americans have been allowing it to become a private responsibility (aka nobody's responsibility) for decades. We need Obama to change that. We have only one president, and no one in Congress is capable of providing real, national leadership. To change things Obama has to do things differently and one of the things he has to do differently is accept responsibility for not delivering on his promises, large and small, direct and indirect. Reading most commenters here and elsewhere on the intertubes, one gets the feeling that "accountability" and "responsibility" are just funny little words with no real meaning. This is not about who gets a few points and surges into the lead in the adolescents' competition for who gets to say "nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah" to the other party. The stakes have never been higher. So, just doing OK isn't good enough. And if Obama isn't responsible and accountable now, then no one ever will be.
Of course, I'm aware that the country is virtually controlled by a small group of corporate interests. And it bothers me that Obama is part of that network. On the surface, he's not some nefarious villain; rather he seems like a nice guy, who doesn't like disagreements or unpleasantness and who may be wholly unsuited to providing what this country needs right now, which I think is profoundly strong leadership from individuals for whom the next election outcome is not the only thing that matters. Sadly, I'd have to say that for Obama nothing is more important than November 2012. That's the impression I get. I really wonder if that was all Lincoln or FDR could think about when they inherited countries chin deep in muck.
Obama's biggest and most important promise was to change the way things are done in Washington. Unfortunately, I think he thinks that he can accomplish that by trading away critically important legislation to Olympia Snowe so he can demonstrate that he's bipartisan. We don't need bipartisanship -- we need major, hugely better legislation. And pretending that being a Brodercrat is going to fix anything is a horrible mistake for Obama to make.
Obama is delivering on his promises. What are you talking about?
There has been enourmous change in only 10 short months. What do you think all the complaining is about from people who are unwilling to accept change?
He has done a hell of a lot to turn this economy around and preventing a depression. He has been taking on the enormous challenge of healthcare reform. He is doing what he said he would do in foreign policy, renewing the focus on Afganistan and getting our troops out of Iraq. Building better relationships. Obama is doing a phenomenal job. Etc. etc. etc....
Read my comment below about swine flu. It is the private sector that is failing on swine flu. The government has been doing a great job. Identified and created a vaccine in record time.
allowed to be in it. Maybe to hold us over, and because BHO is solely responsible for producing the vaccine according to some people, he can whip up enough in the WH kitchen to hold us over until the European shipment gets here.
AIUI, there were several unforeseen (in the real sense of the term) production hiccups at the major producers in ramping up vaccine production to a level approximately ten times higher than normal.
And swine flu has a couple of characteristics that are somewhat frightening -- it circulates out of season and it kills people who are not normally killed by the flu. And it's only the first of November -- flu season has another six to seven months to run.
The only thing missing are the blood soaked fangs.
The man is a monster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hb0iFH0AHk&fe...
for months and months. The reason Administrations have a Surgeon General is so the President doesn't have to personally, by himself, check up on the promises of vaccine companies.
His intellect is matched only by the swine flu. It's faux, why do you give them extended airtime?
False Alarm, The doctor's who cried "Wolf!"
Not.
Just the same, around the world the fizzle out of Bird Flu contributed to the slowness of dealing with Swine Flu.
And Avian Flu is still out there, waiting.
Slowness? What are you talking about?
We all know about the horrific conditions at pig farms, especially the ones in Mexico, owned by American companies. Farms that dispose of pig shit by liquifying it and spraying it high into the air, to.... just drift away ... and then settle over towns and cities.
I haven't heard of any stricter regulations placed on these pig farms. Nor have they been even fined, let alone criminally charged for their deadly actions.
(If anyone has info, please give me a link)
Tho we know from several epidemics of Swine Flu just how deadly it can be, and we've known it was 'around' for years, very little was done. No vaccines, no understanding of who was affected in what ways; those things only happened after Obama was elected.
I'm sure the Bushies & Cheneyites were thrilled, thrilled I say, at the notion of a world wide pandemic being blamed on the Democrats and President Obama.
They also hose them down, getting the fecal matter in local waterways.
http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-25-swine...
http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-28-more-...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/mex...
Avian influenza continues to circulate among waterfowl in SE Asia. Luckily, it's very hard for humans to catch it and there's been no sustained human to human transmission because it is shockingly deadly to people. Reported case fatality rates range up to 60%... or about twice that of smallpox.
I HOPE there will be a:
Republican Party... a
Conservative Party... a
NEO CON Party... a
TEA PARTY Party... a
Alaska Wilderness Party... a
Texas SECESSION Party... and a
Democrat Party.
If the Democrats can keep their SHIT together long enough to get thru the elections... then the REST OF THEM can all go their separate ways because they deserve each other and what they are doing to the country.
I was wondering when they were going to try to link the two issues.
Afterall, there was a flu vaccine shortage under boosh, and it was just the seasonal version, not something unusual like H1N1.
Come to think of it, the Canadian government had the flu vaccine and offered it to the boosh administration to use, and if I remember aright, their offer was never turned down or even acknowledged.
Presumably because there was a tie-in to the whole importation of cheaper prescription drugs from Canada that pharmaceutical companies opposed.
Bush never forgave Canada(PM Cretian)for not jumping on board the Iraqi blood bath Choo Choo Train,although Canada has been up to it's ears in shit in Afghanistan ever since...to little fanfare.
nothing to see here.
Kristol belongs in the trash can they used for his dad.
Something about this clip really hit me.
Kristol was asked the question, brought up "the government takeover of health care", referred to swine flu as a sort of dress rehearsal for this -
--- and then they conveniently cut away to shots of huge lineups for flue shots!
This "interview show" this "roundtable", is totally scripted. Kristol would have had to write this with the producers, and then the clip had to be edited and cued up to be shown as he spoke.
Not a complete surprise given Fox's bias, but this is pretty blatant.
I bet they didn't show the huge lines for Health Fairs all over the country.
- and of course, they didn't show comparable shots of people at private clinics and HMOs going right in to get shots without having to line up.
Which is what Kristol would have to show to really prove his point, if he had an actual point to make aside from whipping his ideological horse.
It's a pandemic. The vaccine has only just been released to the public. Ergo, people are lining up. It's just f*ckin' common sense, not the harbinger of Soviet medical care.
always haave been, always will be, even the fake outrage from the opposition.
Around here news reports are about the shortage of Tamiflu, not the vaccine. Part of the problem is insurance only covering some forms of Tamiflu, and not others...or so I have read.
Mother stymied in quest to get Tamiflu for ill daughter
.
Considering the type of villains who are constantly attacking him with the most vicious lies imaginable, One can see why He'd want to have unilateral power to arrest and torture anyone he wants.
Imagine Kristol and his FoxPals at Gitmo.
(I'm not saying its OK, just that I can sympathize)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=100001...
If Kristol got his flu shot already?
And if not, I hope he gets the flu. Not bad enough to kill him, but just to make him really miserable. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
He'd never run for office
Just the bathroom.
You are one sorry son of a bit@h!
republicanism/conservatism is a mental illness!
Couldn't you just imagine if Bush were still president? There would be no flu vaccine because it didn't benefit the rich enough to bother with and he'd have probably screwed it up where one of his numerous disasterous programs would've actually spread the flu more than it would've otherwise without interferance.
You can search the wold over and not find any one being as dishonest and sleazy as Kristol. He is a fearmongering, chickenhawk coward who should be locked away for a long, long, time. Nobody should ever pay any attention to this worthless thug.
.
Why is this Clown still being used at all, this in affective Moron hasn't been right on anything yet, however they keep putting this Moron on the airways.
This Clown was wrong on Iraq, wrong on Illegal wire taps, Wrong on Ms Phlame, Wrong on Terrorism, Wrong on the economy. This mental midget even was fired from the Major National newspaper.
Why? are we constantly bombarded with these distractions of the right, they contribute NOTHING, further inject there misinformation, shoulder up their failures and contribute NOTHING to the on going process of finding SOLUTIONS. Further proof him and his party are FAILURES.
And 2005 wasn't much better. For those with short-memory syndrome I have some links here-- vaccine shortage panic, elderly turned away from flu clinics. The system was antiquated when Bush took office, and he fouled it up even more. President Obama is stuck with the mess. And there are two vaccines needed this year. It won't be fixed overnight.
http://kmareka.com/2009/11/01/the-panic-of-2004/
First of all, swine flu has nothing whatsoever to do with any of the healthcare reform that is being attempted.
Second, there is not a goverment take-over or government healthcare that is being suggested in healthcare reform. There is insurance reform. ie. the potential of people using a government insurance program to pay for their health bills. Government is not controlling the doctors or the hospitals or the drug companies in anyway. It is just another option to pay. +90% of people will just keep their same coverage, doctor, hospitals, etc. So you cannot even say "see what you get with government healthcare", as there is no government healthcare, only a government option to pay that is being proposed.
Third, the government was actually promised by private manufacturers of the swine flu vaccine several months ago something like 140 million doses. It is the private companies who have not delivered, so far only delivering something like 14% of what they initially promised. If it was not for the government this flu would not have been identified in the first place and a vaccine developed in record time. It has been the private sector that has been screwing up. It was also the government that helped set up the vaccine programs in the first place, so without the government we would be no where on this. Go see the 60 Minutes special on this last night. The other big reason the swine flu vaccine is taking a while to get out there, other than the slow manufacturing by private companies, is there is no easy larger distribution mechanism in the U.S. Suggesting even a bigger role for government in these matters.
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