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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDjthFt6EZg&eu...
391 killed, 21% women and children, every fifth victim is a woman or child
2000 wounded, 40% are women and children
Israel and the US ... kool-aid cronyism.
Might does not make right.
Same thing.
civilian areas
let the cowards fight and die like men
that might be possible if the cowardly Israeli racists and occupiers weren't conducting a seige of them, a blockade of them, an air campaign against them.
so let see, 4 Israeli's killed warrants hundreds killed and thousands injured (predominantly women and children - nice easy targets for the cowardly IDF), warrants destruction of civilian infrastructure, warrants bombings of religious sites, warrants assassinations and so forth?
Nice to see Israhell subscribes to the Just War principles.
Would not support either side in this debate. Has nobody learned anything from figures like Ghandi and Dr. King. Anyone who turns to violence, Isreal(full on military assault) or Hamas(rocket attacks) is a coward. Is Isreal supposed to fight with stones and shitty rockets to make it a fair fight. Hamas is a bunch of assheads for picking a fight with the 4th largest military in the world. Why don't they be the bigger man and start trying to find a peaceful solution. When has Hamas ever looked for peace. By the way I'm not taking sides, I'm just pointing out the idiocy of using violence as a way to stop violence. Peace and love for my friends and especially my enemies.
One can think of it this way. Someone takes half your backyard and gives it to someone else, you want them to leave and they won't. No one will get them off your land so you throw rocks. Then your rich and powerful neighbor gives the occupiers of your land guns and bombs to fight back. You still have rocks.
Would you be looking for peace if you are corraled, blockaded, unmployed, not free to go anywhere in a 11 by 45 kms territory? Yes,I can see you're not taking sides.
A) Hamas did NOT pick this fight! Israel did when the violated the crease-fire back in November!
B) TRUE PROGESSIVES support stopping mass murder. Unlike you who seem to get off on watching it!
Your argument would have merit had it been grounded in facts.
First off, you are obviously not familiar with the history of the so called conflict. The West Bank and Gaza have been under military occupation ever since 1967. The first 'violent' response from the Palestinians after 1967 came in the form of the "Intifada" (Arabic for Shake up, i.e. resistance) in 1987. So, for twenty years, the Palestinians tried to end the occupation by peaceful means. Now, it seems that you're not privy to the fact that the occupation was brutal and violent.
Now going back to your Gandhi and MLK comparisons.....they would have merit if they were comparable. It's not a valid analogy and here's why; MLK was a US citizen, awarded full rights by the constitution of the United States. At least on paper, i.e. legally, he could demand equality and social justice. The Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are NOT citizens of Israel. Israel does NOT give them civil rights. In fact, all of the West Bank and Gaza are administered by a military governor. As such, military law applies. So, if the Israeli military wanted to throw a Palestinian in prison, they can do it unchallenged. That Palestinian could ask for a trial until the cows come home and he would not receive it, because he is not a citizen and can't even take his case to the Israeli Supreme Court. This, of course, is just one example.
As for Gandhi, you need to bear in mind that the occupation of India was carried out for economic reasons, to wit natural resources. The occupation of Gaza and the West Bank was carried out for religious reasons, as part of the Greater Israel doctrine.
Now, there ARE Palestinians who are attempting to reach a solution through non-violent means. There have been non-violent demonstrations which resulted in the Israeli army gunning down protesters (who were still peaceful, I have it on a DVD).
The Fatah party, currently lead by Abbas, has been negotiating with Israel since 1993. Back then it was Arafat who was the head. Alas, nothing came of those negotiations. Sure, there have been agreements, the Oslo Accords, for example, the Wye River Memorandum etc.. Yet, Israel continued building new settlements, it continued demolishing Palestinian homes and it continued confiscating lands. In essence, Israel was undermining it's so called partner for peace, Fatah. This only helped Hamas come into power. You can't claim to want peace when you, the occupier, who controls the land, don't give your "partner" something to work with.
Another issue to keep in mind is violations of International Law. As a member state of the UN, Israel is bound by that law. And while the Palestinians are under Israeli occupation they are afforded these protections. However, Israel does NOT abide by neither international law, nor UN resolutions which were passed, particularly, in response to Israel's actions. Israel is currently in violated of more than 65, that's SIXTY FIVE UN resolutions. These resolutions are aimed at resolving the conflict, easing the tensions, and ending the occupation. There hasn't even been a governmental or international body that'll enforce these resolutions. As a superpower, the U.S. could have enforced them, but it constantly supports Israel in whatever it does. In fact, whenever the Security Council tries to pass a resolution to stop the fighting as was the case in 2006 in Lebanon, the U.S. vetoes that resolution. It has nothing to do with Bush. Every U.S. president since LBJ has turned a blind eye and supported Israel on a regular basis.
Do yourself and everyone on Crooksandliars.com a huge favor and watch this documentary from the BBC called "Dead in the Water" about how Israel bombed the hell out of the USS Liberty in 1967.
You'll hear plenty of first hand interviews of sailors who were on the ship and who have been pleading for an investigation up until today.
This documentary shows who the cowards are. The Israeli's. Our sailors on the USS Liberty died like men.
Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujoc1DYjuPE
Would you please watch this with an open mind then report back? Thanks.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Trying to open the mind of an Israeli apologist is like trying to talk sense to a Christo-fascist republican, impossible.
Michael Bloomberg, is in Israel talking about Hillary Clinton being a good secretary of state. There is a reason Hillary didn't win the nomination or be picked for the VP slot. I give Hillary six months before the calls start for her to resign.
Abbybwood, thank you for your YouTube posting on the attacks on the USS Liberty. I read the book by James Ennes years ago and was shocked then at the audacity of the governments of Israel and the United States to so completly cover up the deaths of these brave sailors.
Since reading that book, I have never trusted Israel, and I feel their influence has pushed the US into the hatred for anything Arab that our government and the neo-con assholes in power were willing to start a pre-emptive war with a country that did not attack us on 9-11.
We need to stop allowing our sorrow for what happened to the Jewish people during the Holocaust to continue to shape our policy towards the Arabs and Palestinians that Israel kicked out in 1948. Let Israel and the Arab world fight it out, without our assistance. When enough of both sides die, maybe they will learn to live together.
Democratic Party progressive, Vietnam veteran and proud Union member for 41 years
Since the terrorist Israelis are operating ouitside the LAW as it is do you seriously believe that seperating civilians from fighters would convince them to obey the LAW??? Not frigging likely!!! Once they had illegally murdered all the fighters they would illegally murder all the civilians. Same as the terrorisat Israelis have always done!
the U N should sanction gaza against rocket attacks.
All this pissing and moaning we dont make anything in this country anymore, sure we do! Many of those munitions being used on civilians bear the stamp of Made in U.S.A.
Radix Omnium Malorum Avaritia
Lie manufacturing was up 17% over the previous month and is expected to double yet again in January as the old president covers up and the new president.....
......covers up.
.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
From a certain perspective, Israel is committing genocide of the Palestinian people. They'd like them to be so decimated that Israel could march right in and take over the entire region, something they've intended all along. Why else would they box them in and then attack them? Where do they get off preventing sovereign Palestine from using its own ports?
Israel needs to be STOPPED from carrying out its murderous and horrible intentions. NO MORE SUPPORT FROM THE US or any other civilized country. Sanction, surround and blockade them in to prevent anything but medical and nutrition aid, better than they've done to the Palestinians. Cease all business partnerships between Israel and the US until the Israeli people decide they need a new kind of government. On behalf of the Palestinians, I truly despise the Israeli government -- it's as much a warmonger as GW Bush's administration has been, unrepentently committing war-crimes with support of the administration.
.....NO MORE SUPPORT FROM THE US or any other civilized country. Sanction, surround and blockade them in to prevent anything but medical and nutrition aid, better than they've done to the Palestinians. Cease all business partnerships between Israel and the US until the Israeli people decide they need a new kind of government.....
Michael Bloomberg is in Israel and on CNN International reminding everybody that the US was attacked on 911 by Arabs. He's depending on Hillary Clinton to help Israel. I would like to see Hillary not get confirmed.
Apparently Hillary's posture on Israel is the same as Obama's, one of several issues that I'm in total disagreement with him about. So who knows what they'll do. I've no doubt she'll be confirmed.
It's pretty clear to the world that Israel won't change its ways unless somebody with a BIG stick gives them a stern warning and even a whack or two, consequences that bite. It may take the rest of the midEast and their allies, who have not joined voices against Israel to date.
Unfortunately, US aid (bribes) to various countries in the midEast keeps them in line with US interests for the time being, but if the US and world economies collapse, alliances based on entirely different factors will spontaneously arise.
.....but if the US and world economies collapse, alliances based on entirely different factors will spontaneously arise......
It seems that in addition to their physical crimes against humanity, the zionists are not adverse to committing crimes of moral turpitude. Madoff for example, who stole billions from unsuspecting investors and Herman Rosenblat who wrote a fake story about the holocaust with the intention of bilking thousands in book sales. He even fooled Oprah Winfrey. How can anyone with sound values and integrity believe one word of the Israeli propaganda?
when her people were killing innocent civillians, she came up with a myriad of reasons
even now, she excuses hamas' rocket attacks
say what you will about israel, but that bitch doesnt have a leg to stand on
This likely didn't make it on CNN, but Mr. Netanyahu celebrated the anniversary of the bombing of the King David Hotel in July, 2006 with a plaque paying tribute to the Irgun and it's leader, Menachem Begin, who carried out the attack which killed 92 people. Were those people not innocent? Was everybody killed in all of the bombings carried out by Irgun guilty and deserving of death?
People have such strong feelings about the present conflict, and most are living thousands of miles from the conflict itself, and likely have not had a relative blown up by either party. Perhaps we could agree that no one side has the monopoly on virtue?
Good God you are one sick fuck!!!
Yeah so in your opinion then it is Hamas' fault that the Israelis broke the cease-fire???? You're welcome to having your own opinion but when it's not based in reality at all it sort of makes you look like the ho.
Come on, Larry King. This man is as Jewish as it gets.
is intended to be a factual statement
at least you didnt call him a zionist
{ Deleted, anymore of these and you're going to go on vacation for awhile. Understand ? SiteMonitor}
Your right, I honestly believe Jews are the ills of the world. Thanks for heads up. How someone could call someone a "Jew hating pig" with what he had to work with is juvenile and arrogant.
Ahh, but you post a lot so your excused for being a prick.
is intended to be a factual statement
have a self hatred paranoia that the entire world hates 'em cuz they are Jewish. It's far easier than being honest about Israel to scream anti-semitism.
why dont you spend a little time and check out world history
then maybe you would understand how a jew could feel that the world hates him...just for being a jew
use any excuse you like....but when i finally see one of you aholes getting as upset in regards to the atrocities committed by arabs...then i will change my mind'
until then...you simply hate jews
{ What is it with you and this Jew Hater thing? You're getting close to starting a flamewar. And it appears people aren't buying it. So tone it down Ok? SiteMonitor]
soon...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
This is my only reply to you because the moderation will set in because of your anger. If you don't agree with people, then disagree. Don't let your bias cloud your thinking. Nobody has insulted you, or called you names on here. YOU need to read world history through clear eyes and not those "victim" eyes. The past is the past. Palestinians aren't gassing the Israelis and neither are the posters on this forum. Grow up or don't reply to people.
I farted in his direction, so I guess I gassed him.
Lately that's all it seems to take with him. Disagreeing is one thing, but such foul language makes a person look downright stupid and people ignore your argument right away. What's the point then?
why arent you in prison?
n/m
My guess would be because he/she is NOT a holocaust denier. The only denying that seems to be going on in this thread is your denial of the war crimes of Israel.
"why dont you spend a little time and check out world history"
Yes take a look a the UN History:
How many?
Take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogxeTxD_kZ4&fe...
That's a WORLD RECORD
Don't forget who has vetoed all the resolutions directed towards Israel. The good ole US of A.
"Come on, Larry King. This man is as Jewish as it gets."
your nic fits you
you are either a jew hater or a full retard
[Enough of this Jew Hater stuff. OK? It is possible to hate what the Isreali Government is doing and not hate the Jewish people. And the same applies to the Palestinians. SiteMonitor]
Um...excuse me but back in the day they thought me retarded.
Now they they know I simply think paternisticly rather than linearly. Right brained-to left.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Idiot!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
"Bless me father for i have sinned. Those crimes that i committed, well, i did 'em again. Empty my soul to empower yours. Lead me blind down the path to salvation's doors."
Such hatred. Amazing how the ones in power eat their own.
is intended to be a factual statement
puuuhleeeasse.
when hamas isn't busy killing jews, they line up and kill their muslim brothers at Fatah execution style.
The only thing they care about is power, and the only way they can get it is through permanent struggle, which they get when Israel bombs them, which is what they wanted when they shelled Israel.
{ Look, Do Not advocate violence here. Got it? SiteMonitor]
"kill them all. fucking animals"
Oh, how Nazi of you. Fucking twerp! Reigh wing moron!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
"Bless me father for i have sinned. Those crimes that i committed, well, i did 'em again. Empty my soul to empower yours. Lead me blind down the path to salvation's doors."
no, just stand around and wait to be killed by them. thats the right answer for bleeding hearts like yourself.
if you live in New York, or Israel, or London, just deal with being bombed. after all, its just a mere 'annoyance.' and after all, its part of their belief system that they have to kill you. how insensitive of you not to die!
Stormfront is missing a member.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
"Bless me father for i have sinned. Those crimes that i committed, well, i did 'em again. Empty my soul to empower yours. Lead me blind down the path to salvation's doors."
Have you ever considered watching anything other than US network newscasts? You'd probably see a much different story than the one presented for the American sheeple.
What you just descibed actually applies much more correctly to what Israel is doing in Gaza. For Christs sake it WAS the Israelis who broke the cease-fire back in November. All the rockets that Hamas fired have yet to kill as many civilians as that Novemeber attack did. You've a very strange way of looking at the world.
Often the concept of blood and belonging leads to equal and opposing conceptions of blood and belonging and leads to polarization and further divisions. Perhaps both parties were safer under the British Mandate where at least the native born populations did not kill each other. This new country seems to not keep anyone safe - such as, the entire world by the extension of the blood and belonging and this question of whether a country that exists for one identity is current for our 21st century border less world.
but the fight at the moment is not fair. It would be fair if another superpower was arming the Palestinians to the teeth, in which case the two would be stalemated and motivated to solve the issues. As it is now, Israel has no motivation to do anything other than what it has always done, and the Palestinians basically have nothing to lose but Palestinians.
For those who see the issue as black and white, and think the Palestinians invented terrorism, at least do a little reading about the Irgun and their attitude towards terrorism.
could arabs just try not shooting, bombing, stabbing, jews for awhile and maybe jews will stop retaliating??? oh what a novel idea!!! arabs die in greater numbers because they lack the technology for 20th century, never mind 21st century warfare, and we should be thankful for that. we never had to screen passengers for airlines until the moslem fanatics made our world a horror for all....
were from Saudi Arabia, being cause of airport screening. You know, that country that had their citizens flown out after the 9-11 attacks when everyone else was grounded, and whose king President Bush kissed and held hands with.
The Muslim fanatics, as you say, couldn't possibly fly a jumbo liner with scant skills to fly even a twin engine prop plane.
You've heard that there were live drills going on that morning right? Drills that eerily mimicked the actual attacks? That FEMA was pre-deployed in NYC for the Tripod exercises?
Come on.
Someone flipped a switch and the drill when LIVE.
Many are to young to have seen Hitler kill millions of Jews as the World did nothing. The Rwanda Massacre as the World did nothing. Israel has said the World never to forget the Holocaust so it will never happen again. We've seen Bush invade Iraq based on lies and kill millions people and displace 5 million. Now we are watching the Palestine Holocaust Massacre as again the World watching and does nothing. Hitler would be proud that the Jewish people followed his lessons and learned well. Use God's name and lie to the World while you wipe the Palestine people off the face of the earth. Soon the Middle East will have a Palestine Holocaust Museum to show how like the Jews, Israel killed all men/woman/children for land.
Israel uses the Holocaust as a Free Get Out of Jail Card.
Never again doesn't apply to them when they do it to another people.
israel is not allowed to defend themselves because for thousands of years, jews did nothing when attacked, and now that they fight back, some jew haters on the left are so upset that they changed the rules. Not fair! jews aren't supposed to fight back! cry babies.
being bombed and suicide attacked is merely an 'annoyance' that they must put up with. what other country in the world has that kind of standard?!
Everytime the Israelis start killing people; the AIPAC people start posting things on message boards.
every time palestinians start killing jews, you guys get a very pleasurable orgasm. how nice.
just like the Dancing Israeli's and the so-called Art students in the White van on 9-11 right?
Are you finished? Wanker!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
"Bless me father for i have sinned. Those crimes that i committed, well, i did 'em again. Empty my soul to empower yours. Lead me blind down the path to salvation's doors."
how embarrassing. just as you try to tell me there is no jew hatred here, mr truth b told above you is recounting the lefts favorite story about the jews that were dancing in new york on 9/11.
funny, because I remember jews crying because their fathers and brothers and sons were in the towers when they fell... i mean... seeing as how all the banks are run by jews and everything.
Why are you replying to me? Still wanking?
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
"Bless me father for i have sinned. Those crimes that i committed, well, i did 'em again. Empty my soul to empower yours. Lead me blind down the path to salvation's doors."
and they will go be offensive and obnoxious elsewhere.
{Deleted, flamebaiting.SiteMonitor}
you're absolutely right...jews are supposed to lower their military to fighting like the bedraggled, ill equipped and disorganized fools in gaza..suicide bombings in israel of women shopping in a mall is o.k. if it's a poor arab doing it???
Have you ever heard the phrase 'Straw Man'?
Check this link out. The religion of peace strikes again.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=12...
"Meanwhile, sources close to Hamas revealed over the weekend that the movement had "executed" more than 35 Palestinians who were suspected of collaborating with Israel and were being held in various Hamas security installations."
Wheres the outrage?
Whilst I was soaking in my tub scented with Pre de Province Agrumes, with my favorite scent of Marius Fabres soap, and Pinaud scented shampoo, and drinking waaaaaay more burgundy wine than my VA doctor recommends, I read a couple of passages interesting in Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics as per mankind's demonic and angelic parts:
"Now the subject of psychology some of the teaching current in extraneous discourses is satisfactory, and may be adapted here: namely that the soul consists of two parts, one irrational and the other capable of reason. (Whether these two parts are really distinct in the sense that the part of the body or of any other divisible whole are distinct, or whether though distinguishable in thought as two they are inseperable in reality, like the convex and concave sides of a curve, is a question of no importance for the matter at hand.)"
"But let it it be granted to begin with that the whole theory of conduct is bound to be an an outline only and an exact system accordance with the rule we laid down at the beginning, that philosophical theories must only be required to correspond to their subject matter, and matters of conduct and expediency have nothing fixed or invariable about them, any more than have matters of health. And if this is true of the general theory of ethics, still less is exact precision possible in dealing with particular cases of conduct; for these come under no science or professional tradition, but the agents themselves have to consider what is suited to the circumstances on each occasion...But although the discussion now is proceeding is thus necessarily inexact, we must do our best to help it out."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt2r2rUHc7Q
(Sorry for any typos but I'm s**t-faced again.)
Of course then I shaved with my favorite Van Der Hagen Shaving soap, and will now go offline to watch the rest of Night of the Living Dead; the ghouls are about to have their barbeque out by the truck.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
That was simply awesome ... a virtual oasis of sweet calm in the middle of a raging war zone!
I thank you.
Yeah, I really like Night of the Living Dead.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
only a stupid ass would take a phone call warning from the Israelis saying, giving him fair warning to vacate his house....and only a stupid ass would remain there with his FOUR WIVES??? and how many children?? remain in his house and allow his own family to die when fore warned by Israelis....what a stupid bunch of fools...
does it escape just before you start poking thru the fence with an electric prod?
this meme that hamas is hiding behind civilians is misleading. the us air force space and missle systems command is located in los angeles next to lax. many military bases are located next to civilian population centers throughout the u.s.. think andrews afb in the d.c. area. if one were to bomb any of them many civilians would die and the associated damage would affect major metropolitan areas. are we hiding behind civilians too? are we the same cowardly fighters as hamas or any other military force in most countries. gaza is much smaller and one would have to ask 'where else should they set up military installations'. yes? the posts on this article depict the same type of feelings and one-sided views as the ME. WTF. obviously there are bad people doing bad things.....but israel has responded indiscriminately against a population that is by and large innocent. they have targeted public facilities and institutions. the statement that "hamas is hiding behind civilians" is totally bullshit. wake the f**k up. it seems that the defensive position for posters backing israel's position is that we should have bombed saudi arabia into dust for 9-11 because of what some saudi radicals did. yes? there has to be a wider view of this whole situation or you end up just like the asshole terrorists from both sides who just want revenge and violence and destruction no matter what.
brobob
you just want israel to sit there and take it while hamas does indeed bomb indiscriminantly
and your arugment is bs
there are vids of hamas launching rocket attacks from schools, hospitals and mosques
not the same as having a base near a civilian airport
Your argument about not taking it...while getting bombed...the irony is that if Britain had followed your advice, there would never have been an Israeli state.
but it might have been better for world peace if there were no "Israeli state" but instead an incorporation of Jews into every nation that welcomes them, and there are many. It isn't the Jewish people who are the problem, but the warmongering government of Israel.
why do you blow up schools and mosques?? now we have to store our munitions in libraries and day cares...wah wah wah...
If some nation had not blocked the UN from doing something about Israel breaking the cease-fire back in November then there probably wouldn't have been any rocket attacks now would have there.
israel is the first country i know that warns, WARNS citizens via phone to vacate before bombing....wah wah wah get the fuck away from the target area and you might not die.. no other nation but ISRAEL warns their enemies before bombing the shit out of them...
The Israelis are such nice people. The Palestinians should be lining up in the streets to hug the Jews; what a great people! It's just so decent of them to call, before blowing the shit out a house.
Oh ya that helps
"Hello? Palestinian? I'm gonna bomb the shit outta your house. You know, the one that you have no place else to go to, and you can't get out of the entire area cuz we have you blocked in?"
yeah get the fuck out of your house so it can be blown up...now you can live in a tent,,or maybe the crater where your house was..this is what happens when you lose at war dumb ass...warnings are optional only..
is between two opposing "armies"....this isn't a war...anymore than the Iraq fiasco was a war. Caging people up like animals and then having the "decency" to phone them even though they have no place they can go to, is really humane.
You're not going to find a lot of sympathy here in America for the IDF murdering civilians.
It's not a good thing no matter how you try and spin.
You mean you don't find it fair? I mean, what isn't fair about gathering a group of people into a tiny zone, denying them food, medicines, etc, and then bombing them? I mean come on, they phone them first!!!
"Hello Jim? I'm gonna blow up your house in a minute just so you know and can get out. Oh wait, I blocked all your doors and barred your windows. But hey, I phoned you!"
awe come on goober..all you need to do is consider the circular error probability of the average israeli munition, maybe 5-25 feet. now think of the kill radius of, let's seee, maybe 200 lbs. of compound "B" high explosive. that would be about 100% kill probability within 300 feet assuming the dumb ass is standing fully erect. give it say 500 feet with your body horizontal and feet towards where your house is soon to disappear. now your survival is virtually assured because the IDF mercifully told your dumb ass where not to be...
bet they wouldnt be so polite if the places they were going to bomb had surface to air missiles! heh! heh!
maybe they could stop the blockade and really allow aid to reach these people before bombing a civilian population. the argument for israel's reaction is one sided in that you disallow the blockade having any importance. in fact you never even mention it
brobob
where the fuck they gonna go!!! the borders are controlled by israel
brobob
oh, if i got a warning i might go to a mosque...sanctuary yes? oh but they bombed that too. or maybe a school.....oops they bombed that too. wow how humanitarian of them to warn the civilians
brobob
they bombed those evil Hamas terrist's hospital too.
The "mosque" was a storage depot for explosives and rockets. Why does Hamas hate its own people?
No matter whose side you take in this conflict, why are these questions never asked, nor answered?
What is in the best interest of the United States? How does unconditional support of ANY country advance our interests in the world?
We are the only country with the leverage to control this situation and our leaders choose to take a hands off approach, as if this keeps our hands clean. Horseshit!
Not that rocket attacks into civilian areas are ever acceptable, they aren't, but what would you do if: (A) Your city was isolated from the rest of the world with the only access controlled by a foreign power. (B) The flow of food, water, electricity, medicine and fuel was cut to 10% of the required minimum amount for survival. (C) That 10% was stopped. (D) You were not allowed to leave. (E) Your hospitals, schools, churches, city hall, police dept, fire dept, power plant and water plant were all bombed. (F) You were told that the people you elected had to be replaced by the people you voted out of office.
How would you react?
Raising this is, unfortunately, critical. Got to figure that it is in the US' interest to have Israel engage Iran at some point for control of its oil. I'm sure there's more to it than this, but really, why the Hell else care about these little pieces of desert?
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
exactly. the irony being that the u.s. forced these elections and hamas won. well now that wasn't expected....they must not understand democracy very well so we (u.s.) allow for this crisis to build thru the blockade. not to mention that other faction in the west bank-fatah-that can't understand the continued building of settlements. they will probably be next
brobob
[Deleted. Flamebait-Sitemonitor]
Deir Yassin Massacre.
it makes me wonder if this isnt just a con game for some coverup for something bigger thats in the works against the american people!
well there are the oil deposits that are in the territorial waters of gaza. the con on us is our economic collapse while still funding israel with billions of $$$.
brobob
If these were any other countries? Would anyone be blindly supporting one side over the other?
What if it were China bombing the shit out of Tibet?
I was thinking. How much support would any terrorist organization have from it's people, if the supposed enemy actually dropped food, clothing, meds, etc instead of bombs. How much support would they get if that happened? None.
funny that 2 years ago i said to my friends that with the cost of the iraq war it would be more useful to just fly over and dump money out of airplanes every day. the people would be busy picking up the money and use it to build their lives and rebuild their country. do this every day and there wouldn't be the cost of lives of our soldiers and be cheaper than the cost of the war to us the taxpayers
brobob
oh and this would result in direct funding of the people without the ever present corruption by the u.s. appointed gov't. both iraq and afghanistan
brobob
Their actions present a desire for conflict instead of resolution. How many people would tolerate rocket launches into a country that was providing relief and jobs? Wouldn't the best weapon against these terrorist attacks be to give the citizens a vested interest in kicking them out? Instead, they drive them join in ever increasing numbers.
Even Bush figured out he needed to bribe the local leaders during the beloved surge instead of trying to kill all of them. Just think what kind of support we would have gotten in Iraq if we had actually built functional schools and hospitals and power/water plants. Instead, we f'ed up everything we touched, called anyone who fought back a terrorist and used that as a justification to turn into thugs.
If you help out and build nice stuff and it gets blown up by terrorist, the people will turn on the terrorists. If you blow it up yourself and let the country rot, people become terrorists.
or pakistan and india
brobob
they already did about 50 years ago..tibetans lost..they weren't so stupid as to keep on fighting a superior military.
[Deleted. Flamebait-Sitemonitor]
My point wasn't to compare the conflict between China/Tibet to Israel/Gaza. It was to put different names on the countries involved. If the exact same actions were taken by each side, but the names of the countries were changed, the support of the overwhelming response would not be the same. It is only unconditional support because the country involved is Israel.
We as a country need to take our blinders off and be able to engage in a discussion without immediate pro/anti Jew comments flying.
My comparison may have worked better if I just said Country A and Country B. By criticizing the actions of Country A, I am not an Anti-Aite. Just a critic of the actions of Country A.
i stated this on my first post....we need a wider view. the reactions seem to always be based on us and them. there is more to the story than that. these are humans, families, people both good and bad. to just lump them into one basic category is narrow minded and prejudiced. it seems to be most inflammatory with the iraeli/palestinian situation. in all of our u.s. history we have seemingly grown out of that bias....japan/ germany/ russians/ native americans, etc. the one exception that we face right now is still the racism against "afro-americans" we are all americans. humans- good and bad. the jewish people are people who are capable of good and bad acts but there is an extreme bias against anyone pointing out that they too are capable of being wrong and committing inhumane actions. it has been pointed out that in israel there are jews against their gov't actions but that here in america criticism is not accepted without being accused of anti-semitism. there is an extreme sensitivity that is unwarranted in an open discussion. it ends up in an us and them framework that negates understanding
brobob
i am proud of america and the american people. i am disgusted with my gov't and the actions taken by both repugs and dems in these last years. it doesn't make me anti-american. indeed, it makes me american to express my view and a human to listen to other views and have a discussion to achieve understanding.
brobob
U.S. money and weapons and policy facilitate this unacceptable situation. The blood of the Palestinians is on our hands, not just the IDF
if you can believe the polls... the american people don't support this action by israel. only our political elite on both sides do. it is their hands that are bloody. but we the people don't count.
brobob
Does anyone know why Egypt is not letting them in? Now many innocent lives will be lost for reasons only assumed. As long as these uncompromisable scumbags exist, there will be no peace. The so-called innocents involved must distance themselves from these whack jobs. Did the innocents in Waco deserve to die?[NO] Did the innocents in the Twin Towers deserve to die?[NO] We have to allow the innocents to get into a safe zone, whats up with Egypt or Israel? I think the Israels are gonna go door too door to wipe out the fundies. Oh you blow up my house of worship, now where are we gonna hide are weapons... Its not good, no matter how you look at it! They should stop throwing rockets at people, why don't they tell there people to stop with the rockets. What if the Native Americans back in the day, kept shooting arrows into your yard while your kids were playing in he backyard? Would you ignore it until your kid was killed? Did we kill innocent Native Americans kids? That's War... It will go on forever until it stops!!
Study the symptoms not the virus...
This is what none of you seem to realize. Hamas can stop this anytime they want. They can stop this terror on their people. All they have to do is act like human beings. Up to this time, they have acted like savage beasts that are not worthy of the term human being. They attack Israel, and then Israel attacks back. Their attacks will accomplish nothing. They cannot beat Israel, any(thing) with a brain would realize that. All they have to do is stop launching rockets, and their nightmare ends. But they don't want that. They want eternal warfare, they want to ruin the lives of everyone they can. They will stop with nothing short of the destruction of Israel. Hence, there is no point negotiating with them... They're idiots and savages. Israel has no choice but to kill them. Imagine if your suburb was hit with rockets from someone you hate? What would you expect the U.S. to do? Don't be such a pathetic hypocrite. And before you attack me, I'm a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, I'm no right-winger, I just have some common sense.
perhaps you meant...."imagine if your suburb was hit with rockets from someone who hates you." a Freudian slip? but it does point out the pervading reality that there is hate on both sides. could you imagine yourself with your family locked into a small area without recourse to food, water, medicine, freedom to travel? what would you feel or do?
brobob
I was trying to digest that sentence as well, it did not seem too flow with the rest of the comment?...
Study the symptoms not the virus...
well it seemed to fit in that isu deemed the other side as savages and idiots without consideration that they might have a reason. that doesn't mean i think they are right to use rockets against israel...just that there is way more to this story than i/we may know. i still feel that the response by israel is unjustified and excessive in that they have targeted innocents and the destruction is overwhelming. why the blockade? why aren't they allowing journalists in to document what is happening? why only blame hamas? they are an elected gov't. does that make all of the gaza peoples terrorists intent on the destruction of israel? or maybe it is just the religious radicals of that organization who feel this way. would it be apt to make the comparison to our own gov't of busco of which a few have committed war crimes that the majority of americans don't agree with.?
brobob
I don't see how the people of Palestine can prosper, given their restricted freedoms to same. At the same time Why can't they just live together in peace? Until the issues are compartmentalized and address as such, a frenzied action and or actions will continue indefinitely. It is certain and factual that we have at least two different beliefs, what action could honor more then one belief? After all, is it not beliefs that cause actions? Who benefits from this current situation?
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Why would anyone attack you? You have clarified that one side is subhuman and you have common sense.
The story is much more complex than you appear to grasp. "Idiots and savages" does not come from somebody with common sense. It comes from somebody who has bought into the narrative supplied by the corporate press.
There are as many members of Hamas who want eternal war as there are members of the Israeli public who do. Both are minorities within their respective groups.
Basic facts are important. Israel is the occupying power not Palestine. It is easy to condemn acts of resistance as terror (and when the methods are terror based we should condemn them) but we must first condemn the occupation that leads to the need to resist.
Try turning your argument on its head for a moment and see if it sparks some new thoughts: Israel can stop this whenever it wants by ending the occupation.
Tune into my radio show at 6:00pm central time for a live discussion on this topic (among other things). Go to kpft.org and click the listen live link.
shooting rockets into israel in the first place?
what prompted them all of a sudden?
and is it really ok for israel to kill civilians as well when they know it is hamas and hamas alone?
is israel trying to fight terrorism with terrorism?
wtf
We have a right to defend ourselves. Doesn't Israel? Israel is recognized as a state, no one recognizes Hamas for the obvious reason that they aren't a government, they're not diplomatic, and they use terrorist attacks to gain influence. Who's the occupier when the region they control is within the borders of another country? Israel recognizes Palestine by the fact that it exists within its borders, Israel doesn't have a the extinction of Palestine in its mission statement. As a de facto athiest, I don't have investment in either side's spiritual claim to the land, but one side elected a terrorist group to power that wants to eradicate the other, one side is unwilling to be diplomatic, and one side is suffering more. Sometimes force forces people to be diplomatic. Hamas is going to have to live with the fact that they are not going to have their fascist domain over Israel like they have in Palestine. They are going to have to compromise, and that's where diplomacy starts.
Our response to 9/11 wasn't to blockade the entire country and cut off all essential supplies to all of it's citizens and hope to starve AQ and the Taliban to death. We went after the small group inside that country and those who were giving aid to them. From all reports, we were doing fairly well by not lumping the entire country in with Bin Laden and the Taliban, but instead trying to provide an incentive to fight back against these groups. Then we dropped the ball and decided to attack a counrty which was no threat.
The world is too crowded, too many civilian casualties, plus the global economic crash makes weaponry too expensive... It is simply no longer feasible to slaughter human beings at will. The only thing worth doing is planting stuff in the ground and sharing what food comes from the harvest.
Too bad the egocentric greedheads who think they run the world have not realized this yet.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Leaked_graphic_...
Blind support of the Israeli Government must stop. This 'retaliation' is out of control and disproportionate. The Israeli Government is just another monster created by the U.S. Government. She had a very good idea. If these people can not live together then the U.N. should place peace-keeping forces in both areas, but of course that would require them to actually doing something besides just being a nest of spies that live for free in the United States. A very short and very tight leash need to be placed on the Israeli Government and watched very carefully. Military and financial aid needs to be drastically cut. The Israeli Government cannot be trusted with arms or money. The Palestinians need to start getting rid of Hamas and any other terrorist groups in their part of the region. These people have been at this for sixty years and refuse to stop...if they want to act like children then treat them like children.
Government + the Federal Reserve = organized crime
I say this thread is indicative why wars start and can continue indefinitely.
At some point the engaged parties might even forget what sparked this particular battle, but remember more recent offenses against each other, and it turns into dueling claims of, "What about A?" "Forget A what abut B?" "Forget about B what about C?" and on down the line as each side pretends the other's worse.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
If your main or only source of news is the US media then your position is likely to be some version of AIPAC's view of the 'truth'.
If your source of news almost anything other than the US MSM your view of the 'truth' will most likely be different.
As one wag said 'Trust, but verify'. You can no longer have faith in the MSM and expect to get something resembling the true, unbiased, balanced, both sides, fully disclosed facts.
At least try to walk a mile in the others shoes.
Sometimes for a good laugh; I like to watch old news clips and news shows from the Cold War Era. Just my opinion; I think the MSM is getting better not worse. This is one of my favorites; enjoy the laugh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI8Jpv_zZ3g
You may be partially right but where is today's equivalent of Edward R. Murrow? Notice how little diversity there is now, how little investigative journalism exists.
The video 'JOHN F. KENNEDY ON NBC'S "MEET THE PRESS"' is not interrupted by advertising after each question. Where were the 2 GOP and one other pundits spewing canned party talking points and trading insults?
I think the differences in the MSM are stark.
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