The Untouchables: Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?
MSNBC's Cenk Uygur talked to Rolling Stone's Matt Taibbi about his new article on Wall Street and the revolving door preventing any of them from being prosecuted -- Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?:
Financial crooks brought down the world's economy — but the feds are doing more to protect them than to prosecute them
Over drinks at a bar on a dreary, snowy night in Washington this past month, a former Senate investigator laughed as he polished off his beer.
"Everything's f**ked up, and nobody goes to jail," he said. "That's your whole story right there. Hell, you don't even have to write the rest of it. Just write that."
I put down my notebook. "Just that?"
"That's right," he said, signaling to the waitress for the check. "Everything's f**ked up, and nobody goes to jail. You can end the piece right there."
Nobody goes to jail. This is the mantra of the financial-crisis era, one that saw virtually every major bank and financial company on Wall Street embroiled in obscene criminal scandals that impoverished millions and collectively destroyed hundreds of billions, in fact, trillions of dollars of the world's wealth — and nobody went to jail. Nobody, that is, except Bernie Madoff, a flamboyant and pathological celebrity con artist, whose victims happened to be other rich and famous people.
They have a loophole, because the Clinton-era Congress relaxed regulations, and Clinton signed it into law. Wall Street was morally wrong, but it would be hard to prosecute them in light of the regulations.
let's get this straight, shall we, clinton's relaxing of regulation was (at least apparently) for the sole purpose of getting people, previously denied home loans to get a home. Bush and co. decided to exploit that loophole for their own enrichment and/or aggrandizement and voila, the economic collapse of america and western civilization to which we (and the rest of the world) are still reeling...
wem
Stick to the question. Why aren't these people in jail? Why aren't they being prosecuted? I'll tell you why. The Justice Department looked at the case and decided that it would be too hard to put them in jail in light of the relaxing of regulations. The relaxing of regulations during the Clinton administration is well documented, and Clinton has stated that he regrets signing that legislation into law. The relaxing of the regulations may have had other intentions, but it opened a loophole big enough for Wall Street to walk through. The question in the article was "Why aren't these people in jail or being prosecuted?" I think I answered that question, and my statement didn't need any correction.
The FED is private company which is owned and run by the banks. Who does the FED have over its barrel? Capitol Hill of course, obviously no one is going to jail, the crooks run the country. Elementary dear Watson.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtGNd6EOxtI
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You actually have to have committed a crime and be proven guilty of it before you get sentenced to jail time. I'm afraid your gut feeling that everyone who works on Wall Street is guilty of some crime is not quite sufficient to proceed directly to sentencing. While it is doubtless true that some who worked there may actually have committed crimes, white collar commercial crimes are complex and require a lot of investigation to prove in court.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
..you have to WANT to investigate. And we (our government) doesn't want to investigate, that's basically Taibbi's thesis.
there was a post here no long ago about one of those dreaded bipartisan governmental committees that just turned over the results of their investigation to the relevant legal authorities for prosecution. Such things never happen fast enough to suit anyone. But they happen.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
I won't be holding my breath wiating for those prosecutions.
... a bipartisan commission of people paid for by the very criminals who are supposed to be "investigated." Why would some people not trust those?
These things are just too "complex" for us poor simple folk to grasp, so let'sa justa look forward...
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
... because the crimes involve math and "math is hard".
The main reason they don't want to investigate is because they would be investigating their buddies, past and future bosses, etc. Calling it an incestuous relationship is not going far enough.
A New York law from before the Revolution regarding fraudulent conveyance is all it takes to establish illegality.
Many people knew that what they were selling in the form of CDOs were based on loans originated with false or missing information.
This is documented.
They pushed the market into bubble territory to collect excessive fees.
After the mortgage market started to melt the demand for bad mortgages went up rather down as it should have.
Why? Because of the excessive fees and the enormous profit potential of buying credit default swaps on bad securities that the seller knew were bad.
Double dipping, push bad securities and collect on CDS on those securities when the go bust.
One does not need to own the security to buy a CDS.
The arsonists were buying fire insurance on their marks.
Lots of areas for prosecution.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Virtually non of it was illegal. Much of what was illegal would be difficult to prove since it would rely on people admitting that they knew they were selling garbage. Damn few committed those beliefs to documents like e-mails. Ain't deregulation or non-regulation wonderful?
Hasa Diga Eebowai
You say virtually none of it was illegal.
I say it was.
Whatever was committed to emails etc. would be uncovered if there were discovery, which there has not been.
Deregulation allowed for mechanisms but not for fraud.
You have not studied this enough.
The work of William K Black, the former Savings and Loan scandal prosecutor is an excellent place to start.
In the S and L scandal which was itself based in deregulation, there were over one thousand high level prosecutions.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
They were rating toxic sludge as low or moderate risk. This was fraud and there must have been some evidence lurking about. All the players are trying to maintain deniability by blaming the other. The reason they aren't finding much is because they aren't looking very hard.
was illegal you'd have a case. It is not. I'm puzzled as to why anyone would give the slightest credence to a bond rating agency these days given what has happened but there it is. I have not been able to find a single law that makes screwing up ratings an actual crime. Certainly there are plenty of grounds for civil action and there is plenty of that going on.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
where there's a will, nothing is impossible, hence, they will not prosecute because they are told (the powers that be?) to not will it... get it? The reason why can only be speculated...
wem
Well DUH.
I do hope you understand that, as the very first comment in this thread pointed out, the government is in the employ of these crooks. They write the very laws that protect these thieves from prosecution. So it is a no brainer that they avoid any legal entanglements because they get off on technicalities.
This is why Clinton was just as much of an asshole as Reagan, the Bush's and now Obama (not because he lied about a blow job, or said he didn't inhale, or screwed Haiti out of it's economic stability, or sold out our economy to China, etc). This is the result of his "business friendly" democratic governing. And this will go on as long as our government is staffed by corporate cronies who are passed off as caring politicians for whom we may cast our regularly scheduled and worthless votes.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
the question as to why "Wall Street" isn't in jail. They helped write the rules that made what they were doing perfectly legal in most cases. I can see why that pisses everyone off. On the other hand advocating an aggressive anti-business agenda in the middle of a painfully slow recovery where new jobs are hard to come by doesn't make much sense either does it? All that would do is ensure that the Republicans are back in control that much sooner.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Let's look at this. Wall Street wrote the rules in the 90s that relaxed the regulations. Another point that someone brought up is that the government is hesitant to prosecute anyone these days. And a third point legitimately made was that these cases have be investigated for a long long time, and they are very hard to prove in court.
So my question is: If these points are so obvious, why was the post added to Crooks and Liars? Why even pose the question?
It gets to be annoying to have it continually pointed out that Wall Street is amoral and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
The question shouldn't be, "Why aren't these people in jail?"
The question should be, "How do we stop this from happening again?" Because I don't think much of anything has been done by the Obama administration.
And here's the answer -- drum roll please: We can't do anything. In spite of all the promises by Obama and his people, nothing will be done.
I thought I heard someone on TV say, "Obama is acting like he has a chance to win the Republican nomination." Probably heard it wrong, but it's about right.
obama SOTU 2010
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/27/stat...
why isn't wall st in jail? would those that control our govt actually imprison themselves? hardly...
because they own the jails, the courts, the government, the means of production ......
and that is the way it will continue until such time as we stop debating this on their terms, until the supposed "left" stops playing in the kiddie pool and ventures into the deep end.
If you want to know when the banks bought our country, look up the 1914 federal reserve act. Thats when the US was bought. The US ran the country and loaned money to the banks, not today where the federal reserve loans money to the Gov and the gov pays the banks back. From 1776 untill 1914, the Federal Goverment "was" in controll. Then the rich started there take over of America while americans were a sleep. Shit, I can't belive just how many American think that the federal reserve "is" part of the gov.
And both of them met the same fate this central bank will. Fiat money and fractional reserve banking do allow a lot of growth, but this growth is based on debt and not real wealth. This system will always produce the cycles of boom and bust, with the wealthy collecting the spoils and the rest of us wondering what the fuck just happened.
special investment vehicles, making "money" because you have money, and the dirty little secret? it is all on the backs of third world laborers.
a simplified definition for capitalism is: for every dollar made there is somewhere in the world a dollar lost...
wem
... at Ron Paul's notion that the Fed needs to be audited. "Why, only a whackjob nutsoid would want to audit the Fed!"
Yes, and only a dog named Toto would want to show us the man/fraud hiding behind the curtain.
There's enough evidence of fraud to take dozens if not hundreds of cases to grand juries. The fact the government has not even pursued one case would imply they are protecting Wall Street. The government will not investigate itself. It will do whatever it takes to keep the game going.
...that no war criminals of the previous decade have gone to jail. Accountability is for the little people like us.
class to "NEVER" to win. Think about it. The banks are in control. I went to check on a home loan.
First, after you can get the loan at "good" interest" (bullshit) They tell you, this is a great interest rate. More bullshit. I asked the guy just how is this a good deal for me. I pay you a $1000 mortgage a month and $800 goes to you in interest and $200 goes on my loan. that is a good deal for you not me. then you want to do my escrow so it I don;t have to worry about my taxes and insurance, one thing you did not tell me is that "YOU" can get up from 2 to 6 months Extra escrow by law. shit that is what 40 or 50 million in your account and you are making interest off my money that I gert nothing for. He then said if I want a home loan, THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT WORKS, IF I DON'T PLAY BY THERE RULES I DON'T GET A LOAN.....This is the way the banks have played for at least 60 years. If you cant pay for your home with cash or build it your self, your at there will. This is one issue the rich will never have, they pay cash, for there what 2,4 or 7 homes. That is the way they want it and that is the way they want to keep it.
tenant farmers.
"Slaves are generally expected to sing as well as to work."
— Frederick Douglass
There's a new American Idol and computers are beating those eggheads at Jeopardy!
A Marxian view from Richard Wolff here
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
I have had the pleasure to attend a couple of lectures by Wolff.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Gaol?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuNQIdKrb1g
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Because then it becomes Main Street.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
try and send your kids to a
affluent white"exclusive" school. Then you're ass is going to jail for sure."..Yes, as through this world I've wandered
I've seen lots of funny men;
Some will rob you with a six-gun,
And some with a fountain pen.
And as through your life you travel,
Yes, as through your life you roam,
You won't never see an outlaw
Drive a family from their home".
Woody Guthrie
Ballad of Pretty Boy Floyd
"Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out."
President Andrew Jackson forcing the closing of the Second Bank of the U.S. by revoking its charter.
If only today's politicians would speak and behave like that. Instead they're a bunch of useless corporate puppets.
"Freedom of the press only wears down when not used" - Motto from the "Canard Enchainé", french satirical newspaper.
...lost its backing? The Panic of 1837. 343 of 850 banks closed, another 62 partially failed. Depositors lost a bundle.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
No discussion about the Panic of 1837. The Jackson Administration made a wrong assumption and implemented the wrong solutions. And it didn't help that the banks are always happy to speculate until everything crashes down.
My point was simply to show that at least past presidents were willing to stand up to what they perceive as financial misbehavior on the part of the banking system.
How many of today's politicians would say something like the above?
"Freedom of the press only wears down when not used" - Motto from the "Canard Enchainé", french satirical newspaper.
Obama says he needs one billion dollars for his re-election. There is only way place for him to get cash like that. Hmmmmmm..............wonder where that would be.....?
What were we discussing again?
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
How the world ought to work by the great Matt Taibbi:
The relationship between the SEC and the DOJ is necessarily close, even symbiotic. Since financial crime-fighting requires a high degree of financial expertise — and since the typical drug-and-terrorism-obsessed FBI agent can't balance his own checkbook, let alone tell a synthetic CDO from a credit default swap — the Justice Department ends up leaning heavily on the SEC's army of 1,100 number-crunching investigators to make their cases. In theory, it's a well-oiled, tag-team affair: Billionaire Wall Street Asshole commits fraud, the NYSE catches on and tips off the SEC, the SEC works the case and delivers it to Justice, and Justice perp-walks the Asshole out of Nobu, into a Crown Victoria and off to 36 months of push-ups, license-plate making and Salisbury steak.
This is why Matt is the best
this issue defines Obama's term in office. All the inaction by the Whitehouse, while crimes against this country's financial structure and economy, committed by these white collar criminals, is proof enough that this president is complicate and dangerous on all levels. Don't try and tell me he cannot direct Holder to begin seeking indictments.
...most of America is too fat, dumb and happy to give a pshht. That right there is the problem. Once their lives, our lives too, take a phat dump, it will be too late to do anything about it. I, for one, refuse to sit in my room, snorting coke and waiting for the revolution to come down the street and so I try, everyday, to make my fellow citizens aware of their peril. Don't you?
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
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