Tom Coburn Takes Thomas Jefferson Quote on Religious Freedom Out of Context
This is rich. C-Street Family member Tom Coburn who along with his fellow Family members have been doing their best to inject religion into the health care debate, uses a quote by Thomas Jefferson about separation of church and state, and takes it out of context.
h/t jenyum at Daily KOS who has more -- Dear Senator Coburn: Liberals Can Quote Jefferson, Too:
During today's Senate health care bill debate, Senator Tom Coburn held up a big graphic displaying a quote from Thomas Jefferson:
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical
This quote resided in the background while Coburn went on and an about earmarks, and abortion, and waste and fraud in the federal government. If Senator Coburn had actually read the original source of the quote, however, I don't think he'd be so quick to use it.
Jefferson's actual words originated in the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom:
to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical
The Statute goes on to say...
our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions any more than our opinions in physics or geometry, that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence, by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages, to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right, that it tends only to corrupt the principles of that very Religion it is meant to encourage.
Obviously among other things too long to list, Tom Coburn's irony alert button is broken. He'd better hope he doesn't wind up in trouble for his part in his buddy John Ensign's affair that the press has been giving him a pass on. As jenyum noted:
Jefferson's words when not taken out of context are hardly a rallying cry for a party that opposes health care reform on religious grounds.
Couldn't have said it any better myself.
initiatives have no place in government. and Obama needs to get that cleaned up.
Some stuff you can't make up!
name..In the South , the 'preacher' interprets the 'bible' according to what he wants to be the outcome or the fear of the week!
Coburn is just such a fake...Call and tell him of your disgust! 1.800.828.0498
God, I would be ashamed to be from Oklahoma. Worse yet, to be living still IN Oklahoma....and having this dumb ass representing me.
Is this nation really that fucked up??? I'm thinking so.
coburn and the gop teabaggers would misquote god,
and then throw him to hell if it suited them.
I would not be worried about paying $962.95 a month for health insurance.
I do not intend to give my money to health insurance companies no matter what they do in the senate!
I am so old now that they can just lock my as up. I am not going along with it!
Single payer under medicare for all. That I will be happy to pay for! That will put all of America in a better position.
This other bullshit is just so much fart gas! Insanity from the insane who'd of thunk it!
They can't freaking afford it!
this reminds me of the kind of bullshit that
many in england fled to the new world to get
away from...and now...the democrats want to
force you into paying for health insurance
you can not afford and if you don't pay.....
you go to debtors prison and/or pay a fine......
that is so FUCKED UP !
Letting this man deliver your child? Or letting frist do heart surgery on you? Could you imagine going to any of these insane idiots with any kind of problem?
After the last thirty years could there really be any republican that are not insane?
I think not. You would have to be crazy as hell to be a republican!
That is our problem today!
McConnell performing vasectomies?
So how about an end to tax-exempt status for religious whackos?
After all, isn't that a de facto taxpayer subsidy for their lunacy?
.
Dear Dear Senator Coburn,
How much did Jesus PROFIT from His health care services?
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
religious exemption to the mandate.
SEC. 5000A(d)(2):
(2) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.—
(A) RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION.—Such term shall not include any individual for any month if such individual has in effect an exemption under section 1311(d)(4)(H) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which certifies that such individual is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof described in section 1402(g)(1) and an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division as described in such section.
Figured.
I view this as the final proof that this country really has gone off the deep end.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
"though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil."
Don't mistake my disgust for fear.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Now . . bow and be saved . . confess thy sins . . and thout shalt receive exemption, I mean redemption from the Lord.
Coburn would support a bill that permits avowed pacifists to not pay the percentage of their taxes that go to the armed forces.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
I don't want my tax money going to by ball gags, hoods, and battery cables for the sadistic fucks who torture in my name or protect those torturers.
Or pay for Blackwater to protect their mercenary rapists.
I guess my ethos don't count if they can't be used to subjugate women.
"Culture of life" my hairy ass.
" To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical "
If Coburn really believes this, then no citizen should be required to pay taxes to support a war he/she doesn't believe in, or courts of law, or enforcement of civil rights laws, or covert espionage, or the US military, or elements of US foreign policy or domestic policy, or food safety, or the FAA, or clean air and water standards, or climate policy, or any one of a thousand things the US government pays for.
IRS forms would have to include a checklist of government spending each taxpayer agrees to support.
Is this what the end of libertarianism and far-right conservatism is? Each individual is effectively his or her own sovereign government, and the nation as a whole, the commonwealth, the citizenry, is left to go down the toilet?
Earlier today Coburn said the American people should pray someone can't make
the 1AM vote tonight.
Durbin has been trying to reach him all day to get some clarification of
that remark. He left messages telling when he would be speaking, inviting
Coburn to be there to explain himself. Needless to say, Coburn was a no-show.
"to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical"
...is that not the definition of lobbying (bribery)?
that he really believes this horseshit, or that he's just using it to sucker his hick Okie constituents.
Before I administer any sort of health care, what religion are you?
Oh?
I'm sorry, but do to your religious belief's I am going to have to leave you to your own devices.
No,
I'm not able to help you because...
getting in the way of my growth without limits agenda! My, my health insurance stocks dividends!
My boat! My country club membership! All the conspicuous symbols of success I've toiled for my entire life for . . The Benz . . Viagra!!
That quote means that it's not right to require a man to state a religious belief in office or even to be sworn in on a Bible or other scripture.
Additionally, it states in a somewhat roundabout way that tax money should not support promulgators of an unaccepted belief.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
as a politician at any rate. this link pretty much proves it:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/18/coburns-e...
I don't know why politicians of both parties always twist things so what they say is not true. No one has to buy health insurance. If you do not have health insurance and your income is over a certain amount then you will be taxed on your income. The tax is about a $1000.00. If you are low income you do not have to pay the tax because you are below that tax bracket and low income workers would be covered under medicaid or other state programs.
If you don't pay the tax then you are liable to be charged with tax evasion, just like if you refuse to pay any other federal taxes, and most often you are penalized and charged interest. If your tax evasion goes on for a number of years then you could be charged criminally for tax evasion. But that is because you refused to pay your tax on your income.
If any person feels that a tax is unconstitutionally and they are subject to that tax they have standing and can file a suit in federal court. They can join in with others to help defray the cost of the lawsuit and sometimes are awarded attorney fees for successful lawsuits.
Be advised the 16th Amendment gives Congress the absolute right to tax income of any person for any reason ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendm... ), except for those that violate the 14th amendment equal protection clause. For example, if Congress passed a law saying all blacks would pay a 14% tax rate or jews would pay a 20% tax then that would most likely violate the equal protection clause. Having a tax on income for any other reason is allowed and I doubt if SCOTUS is going to attempt to outlaw taxes on income brackets.
refusing to pay a tax is one thing, but being required to
pay a tax just because you can not afford health care or
don't want it because of other priorities, say your mortage
or credit score is WRONG......
this is where universal health care is the right way to go...
everyone gets it and everyone contributes to it's costs by
a proportional tax, which would be much lower than the
current outlay of money now for premiums and co-pays.
(i hope i explained that well enough to make sense.)
this largescale legislative policy reform is after all intended to help people. and many will be helped yet the press and so many others, esp the GOP, concentrate only on the negatives. and Coburn, a doctor, and an 'alleged' Christian, to be PRAYING that someone misses a vote to it wont pass. this man is reprehensible. firstly, its amazing that an OBGYN is against abortion of any kind, and secondly he would PRAY, and encourage others to pray, that the bill doesnt pass. what a failure as a doctor, a Christian, and a man to wish such things for a bill that is really, and has always, been about helping people. yes, yes, i know there are many ways to help people and some may not agree that this bill is it, but im just talking about Coburn and his staggering intransigence about this bill. theres no other way with him. hes set in his 'certainty'. what a shame. but not surprising. Dr Coburn, you can shove it.
I was told by a tea partier from Oklahoma that I should not be allowed to celebrate Christmas because I don't buy into the nonsense that Christ is being taken out of Christmas. "Shame on me"
The Bible never specifies what time of year exactly he was allegedly born.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
historically, thru the records of the roman empire
this pagan religious group was making the romans
and the emperor angry because they were interfering
with many of the roman religious ceremonies and practices
during july and were forced to move their ceremonies/
celebrations to dec where it has remained.
the original christians celebrated christ's birth
in july not december. and of course jesus and
santa claus are not the same person...just some
humor here...very little humor.
sljonez -
I don't get it - according to your Okie friend, you shouldn't celebrate Christmas because you don't believe it's under attack by Liberal heathens? So Christmas can only be celebrated by paranoid Christian reactionaries? Only the nutters are worthy to sing carols, open presents and eat turkey?
That's fascism. It's as bad - if not worse - than the Taliban. The only good Muslim is a jihadi who hates the infidels and keeps his sisters, wife and mother veiled and cloistered. Same thing.
... who demanded that the entire 700 page amendment by Bernie Sanders by read on the Senate floor, and then left.
Bernie Sanders eventually withdrew the amendment.
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
Who believes that public service means serve-us, as in his selfish interest first. I'ts just a means to a selfish end to him.
Both of the neanderthals Oklahoma elected are self centered jerks. His comrade Inhofe flew all they way to Copenhagen to get his .02 in about climate change denial, found no audience except a reporter from Der Spiegel that called him "ridiculous" after Inhofe muttered his irrelevant psychobabble.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/12/inhof...
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
and in the process he managed to waste a huge
amount of taxpayer money and pollute the skys
with toxins. he was not invited to this international
summit so he should pay or the very least oklahoma
taxpayers should be made to pay for this fucking
waste of American taxpayers taxes. this was a personal
trip for this fuckhead...let him pay for it.
This asshole is another one of the "C Streeters." Anointed by God to lead. What is it about this country that breeds these kind of idiots by the thousands? By the hundreds of thousands? We talk about the Taliban? Are you fucking kidding me? Al Qaeda? Give me a fucking break. We have just as many crazy mother fucker fucking zealots here, in positions of power. I mean these assholes are making policy that affects us all.
Senator Coburn, that you can "Quote" Thomas Jefferson, even though you freely substitue and even add words to the original quote.I must give you a little credit for the revised quote.You've isolated it, modernised it and perfected it like the fine 21st century whine that it has become.
He took a break from "perfecting" the bible and clearing up ambiguities in its divine words.
how about this quote from old Tom:
"“Every generation needs a new revolution.”
We're due.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
You think Jefferson would find a home in this Republican Party?
Jefferson wouldn't find a home in this country, period.
It has morphed, unchecked, into a place where civil liberties have been discarded and taxation without representation is firmly enshrined.
Leading this effort was Rita Swan, director of Children's Health Care is a Legal Duty (CHILD), based in Iowa. CHILD has been working since 1983 to "protect children from abusive religious and cultural practices, especially religion-based medical neglect."
Rita wrote to FFRF:
"Thank you, good friends, for your contacts to Congress. It's bad enough that the Internal Revenue Service allows Christian Science prayer-treatment bills to be deducted as a medical care expense and that some federal government employee plans pay bills for Christian Science prayer-treatment.
It would have been so awful to have a federal law calling prayer medical care and requiring insurance companies to pay for it. It could have pre-empted the child neglect laws in this country and made it impossible to require parents to obtain real medical care for their children. The final product shows that the Senate listened to your many calls and letters. With appreciation, Rita."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Judge Alfred T. Goodwin and Thomas Jefferson: Guarding the "Wall"
By Gary L. Bennett:
Snip - How fitting that Judge Alfred T. Goodwin of the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit should write the opinion declaring "under God" unconstitutional in the 200th year of Thomas Jefferson's famous wall-of-separation letter.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Tom Coburn.
The First Amendment of the US constitution says:
In that sentence, the word "respecting" means reFerence, not reVerence - note the differing letters. If you substitute "respecting" with the phrase "with regard to", you have the REAL intent of the writers.
Unfortunately, historical revisionists like Coburn (in ALL the negative aspects that phrase infers) are either so wilfully ignorant that they do not know the real meaning of their own country's documents, or are lying in hope that the public is ignorant of them. Or both.
on separation of church and state. Especially as it pertains to his influence in Madison's work on the First Amendment. No surprise there.
That said I must confess I am concerned about the wording of the requirement of us having to buy health-care. I can't help but wonder what it does for those who can't afford the mandatory requirement. Every law seems to have a gray area where some poor soul slips through the cracks and gets unjustly punished for getting caught there.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
The MANDATE without the PUBLIC OPTION or Medicare expansion becomes pure SUCKING UP to the insurance industry. I hope the Democrats will be prepared to FIX THIS with new legislation... or maybe THE HOUSE can FORCE a solution before this gets to Obama's desk.
We shouldn't be forced to buy health insurance from private for-profit companies. The government should pay for all our health care needs in an expansion of Medicare for all. We should stop being the laughing stock of the rest of the industrialized world.
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