Thom Hartmann: The myths and truths about Canadian Healthcare
By Heather Thursday Jul 30, 2009 2:00pmFrom The Thom Hartmann Show, the myths about Canadian health care. Hartmann interviews Dave's cohort at Orcinus, Sara Robinson, who has written about the issue here and here.
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I finally understand why I, a Canadian, am glued to the coverage of the healthcare debate in the US:
"It's a moral no-brainer."
Triage is good for the soul. Can the MSM get Sara Robinson on? Soon please.
With some Israeli doctors and nurses.
After all, they have "Universal Health Care" for every citizen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_I...
I'd like to know how many of our tax dollars are helping the Israeli's have a health care system where everybody's in and nobody's out...???
Don't you know, we're curing them over there so we don't have to cure anyone here.
that the Israeli health care system includes everyone in Israel even the Palestinian Israelis.
equipment, usually in species. It is not the fault of the Israeli government that they had the basic decency of treating healthcare as a right, not as a source of profit.
That is all very accurate. No one worries about healthcare in Canada. No one even thinks twice about it; we just go on abour our business, and never worry. We know we are safe and will always get what we need. Cost $0.
At that price, people can afford prescriptions. If you are low-wage there are government subsidy plans. My friend has one and she pays $2 per prescription filled. My over-65 parents pay $2 per prescription filled. If they had to pay it would be hundreds a month.
Most workpaces provide dental. If not, you're on your own there. If you end up on welfare, medical and dental is covered, glasses too.
we pay premiums in BC... about $54 a month whether you use it or not. I'm very happy with that and think everyone in the world should have healthcare that doesn't bankrupt them or turn them down when they're sick or hurt.
Yep, dental, extended health care, vision care, and even counselling are part of most companies' benefits packages.
I'm closely watching what happens in the U.S. as I want to see the American people get a health care system that works for EVERYONE!
As she said, each province is different. We don't pay in Ontario (unless that's changed-- been overseas for some time.) We also don't get dental. Maybe that's the difference.
Still, we're more than satisfied.
Yes, MORE than satisfied.
It's interesting that Robinson mentioned complaints from Ontario. That may be for some, but it would be a provincial problem probably specific to some type of treatment, not a problem with the single payer principle. As a reasonably healthy 40-ish person with a healthy family, I have no complaints.
And speaking of triage...one evening almost two years ago my mother had chest pains and shortness of breath. My dad took her to the hospital and was a little overwhelmed when he say the waiting room filled with runny noses and sprained thumbs. He said he sort of 'bleated' out "Can we get some help here? My wife can't breathe." Suddenly there were nurses from all over taking care of her. She was whisked in to ICU right away.
But here's the point: I went to visit her less than 24 hours later. In that time she had been transferred to a cardiac hospital, had a stent put in, and was transferred back to the first hospital to recuperate. THAT'S triage. And that's Ontario's health care system.
She's still doing great. She never paid a dime for it. We love our health care.
For some the hatred for President Obama trumps the economy, health care, safety, etc. It doesn't matter to these "Americans" who suffers and dies so long as Obama is a failure. The Health Care Pimps must be laughing while counting money as ignorant American citizens fight like hell against their own best interest to improve everyone's quality of life.
They'd rather be lied to and robbed by the immorally rich than trust a President who is simply trying to help them stay alive and bring additional disposable income home.
Duh . . . .
The agri-business, Big Pharma, Medical Mafia cartel would have us all sick and puking for the rest of our lives if they have their way.
"Of all the times that Ive been burned,
By now you'd think Id have learned
That its who you look like
Not who you are"
--Jackson Browne
...here in downtown Chicago trying sell me watches and gold chains.
the pill commercial pushers on TV where they assure you side effects, more illness, and even death is possible with their product.
when you take their pills, you might get a 4-hour erection!
That'll take your mind off your troubles, ya scurvy dogs!
;)
shit out of everyone. It's economically better to just die than be sick.
that requires the pharma companies to disclose all the possible side effects of their products in their commercials, and when it was put into effect? It has to be fairly recent. Commercials of my youth didn't contain such language, and I'm sure they'd rather not have to disclose if they weren't required to do so.
I don't know when the laws requiring disclosure of side effects went into place, probably when they started allowing prescription meds to be advertised. In MY youth (I'm 56, born 1952) there was no such thing, so far as I recall. Nor do I recall anyone suffering from some of the conditions they treat - restless leg syndrome, WTF? (And the side effects of the RLS drugs are pretty dire - you're better off having a twitch in your thigh.)
I don't think they should allow this type of ad frankly. Patients are not competent to determine what medications they should be taking - that should be left to the doctor.
they've only been allowed since '98:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5309...
And I agree--there should be no reason for patients to have to ask doctors to prescribe the cholesterol-lowering drug whose side effects may include heart palpitations over the one that may induce liver failure... I'm tired of this dreck clogging the airwaves.
..for not noticing them before, seeing as they weren't there before and all. :p
And thanks for the informative link!
why is medicine advertised? Your doctor has to know, but not you. You shouldn't call your doctor and tell him you want Effluvia because you saw it on the T V.
All of that ad money should be going strait to R and D instead.
31 million.
That's one reason Canada is attractive.
and probably 45 million boomers getting near the age when they can kick the bucket at any moment and will want constant medical care.
Shhh. I like to keep Canada the best kept secret. We're not perfect, but we're way way way more liberal and have a moderate amount of socialism. We don't treat poor people like criminals, we help them. We want to help them.
sorry
;)
Harper's government is very close politically to the GOP and the federal government has been cutting health money transfer to provinces. Our beloved system could be scraped if we don't keep a watchful eye. Fortunately, the situation in the US and Moore's "Sicko" made us realize that despite some problems, we were still a lot better than our southern neighbor.
Harper is a DICK. I have not lived in Canada under his regime. Why did anyone vote for him?
Due to the incredible stupidity of past and present PC provincial governments, Albertans have long wait problems and hospital bed shortages. Despite that, the system delivers and we're very satisfied with it.
Like human beings, universal health insurance needs tender, loving care to thrive. Politicians in charge of health policies need to be closely watched.
I don't even worry about health care being scrapped. If Harper tried to do that, Mulroney would go down in history as the second worst conservative prime minister, and Harper would give the liberals 2 decades straight of majorities in parliament.
.. in Canada the health care system is a third rail with about 100 kv (@ 0.01 ohms internal impedance) running through it. One touch would vaporize a politician instantly.
Don't be messin' with canucks and their health care.
The idea makes us ugly.
Ugly? It's literally worth killing over to imagine that our citizens would be dying on the pavement.
If one person in Canada is convicted of a crime they did not commit, that is a story for the front pages and a blemish on our system as a whole.
...and we take the Healthcare system more seriously than that.
Harper is a criminal who is trying to 'capitalize' and 'rape' our country to give it to rich businesses the world over.
He is, best referred to as "A scumbag'. A person who serves the big corps and their bottom feeders and would rather lie to your face that be honest about his motives.
Mulroony (;P) gave us 'Free Trade' (US protectionism in treaty form) and Harper is doing his best keep the criminal dream alive.
Harper has to be kicked out next time around. Who the hell votes for an asshat like him?!
As for Maroony (my name for Mulroney), you hit his Free Trade right on the head! It is US protectionism in treaty form and most of us Canadians are fed up with it. There needs to be an even playing field... not such a slanted one that benefits the U.S. over everyone else.
"Harper's government is very close politically to the GOP and the federal government has been cutting health money transfer to provinces. Our beloved system could be scraped if we don't keep a watchful eye."
Highly doubtful. Any government that eliminated or drastically reduced public health care, whether Liberal or Conservative, would be committing political suicide.
As for cutting transfer payments - there is a recession on, you know. The federal government is running a deficit for the first time since 1994.
The last time Canada had a severe economic slowdown - back in the early 90s - transfer payments were also cut back, by the Liberals.
We don't treat our criminals like criminals. We treat them like people too.
Odd how humanity for other humans can build a better society.
california itself has more people than all of canada. my question is, why hasn't any single state ever tried universal health care on their own?
That's how it started in Canada, in the province of Saskatchewan. It was Tommy Douglas. You can read about him at wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas
a teaser:
exactly... and Saskatchewan is canada's most rural province, hardly a tax revenue power house. There are many progressive states in the union, why haven't they gone ahead with a realistic health care plan?
i don't think you could find 2 countries more alike than Canada + USA. but for all our similarities, we have very different politics. Every american should read that wiki link on tommy douglas. pass it on! He's our greatest Canadian! (He can be your greatest Canadian, too!)
I was traveling with a friend. He had to go to the hospital. They were great - he ended up being okay. Canada eventually charged his insurance a reasonable fee.
Of course this was many moons ago.
My friends winter in Florida. (They have lots of money and own homes in Palm Beach.) They buy the Cadillac of health insurance when they go down there. When he got sick, the American insurance company payed for a one-way ticket back to Canada, to get treated on our dime. They would not even pay for him to go to a US hospital. Basically, insurance denied.
They probably got better care, though.
He was some pissed. All these years they've paid big bucks for 6 months of insurance, and when he needed it, they denied. Total ripoff.
And, yes, he got excellent care and was fine. It did kind of spoil their winter retreat though.
Since then, they sold the houses and stay in Canada.
Wrong a Canadian, and they never come back again.
I was wronged by a border guard once by his accusations that I was a criminal (due to a petty charge years prior.) From his handling of that situation my last trip to the US was to bury my dead American friend.
And I will never go back. Especially now with the police state laws and requirement of a passport.
The lack of humanity there is all you need to see that it's a rat infested ship you don't wanna be in.
I'm sorry to hear this-but the sad realty is that many Americans have earned the reputation of being very unfriendly, hostile, paranoid people.
I was so horrified crossing into the USA 6 years ago, I refuse to return.
..at least to recover the premiums he paid UNDER DEMONSTRABLY FALSE PRETENSES. In lieu of which I hope the province sued for the full amount of treatment, plus a hefty penalty.
Do you know now why the Bush regime was pushing for 'tort reform?' It was to protect their buddies in industry, the bahstids.
Never mind civil liability, the company was engaging in criminal fraud. But then, a corporate 'person' never goes to jail, do they?
I'll ask next time I'm in Canada.
Yes they do. In Canada the big wigs who play American up here (like Conrad Black) end up doing jailtime.
We have laws. Laws like "Don't screw the little guy". But do they ever learn?
Corporations, such repeat offenders.
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20090730/i/r136153...
he's just relaxin' and listening to the stories. Good for them!!
Helluva product placement opportunity.
But this is what Joe Sixpack wants to hear about and not that stuffy old healthcare debate bizness.
Called Budweiser
President Barack Obama: Bud Light
Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr.: Red Stripe
Sgt. James Crowley: Blue Moon.
V.P. Biden: Fake Beer
If so, I'm not sure if I'm amused or aghast that these are the kind of details that consume the media.
Prez Drinks Beer! Gates and Crowley Chug brews! Who's drinking what! You Vote! Beer Poll!
Idiocracy
and I'm aghast.
I better go have a beer.
It's interesting to see people drunk on beer you never know what might emerge.
People said they'd like to have a beer with Bush. Obama actually does it. He wins again. Ka-ching.
to take time out for a beer.
My beer of choice: root beer.
Sara Robinson tells it like it is. Every American politician needs to see this.
but dollar signs.
By golly, you're right!
a stack of C-Notes at them.
...or unzip. Doesn't matter which sex, they're pervs, just unzip.
Gatekeeper
your on your own. Not much has really changed.
How are the health insurers any different than the Mexican drug cartels?
Ans: They're not.
.
I'll bet there are some clowns amongst us, insanely profiting from this disheartening health care debacle, earning 500k+, very nice ride, great condo, women galore(equally soulless) who literally laughs at this human suffering.
for example?
...who has exhausted all financial means while battling a brain tumor.
legit agencies get much of their product from the same manufacturers.
The only difference between the Mexican drug cartels, and the Health insurance industry is that the drug cartels will use guns to take you out. The insurance industry uses lawyers and the law. I, myself, would prefer to take on the drug cartels. A least with them you can shoot back!
OK. THe health insurers have good profit-making gig going, and don't want anyone interfering. So do the drug lords.
The Mexican cartels are killing people to save their money-making businesses. American health insures would gladly let thousands of Americans die to preserve their profits. Looks about the same to me: motive anyway, logistics may be different, but end product not that much so.
these lying criminals have had us eating GM, MSG sprayed, flrouride watered, pesticide drenched, and depleted soil grown foods and tell us it's healthy.
I'd say outlaw the pesticides, GM food, MSG sprayed crap and water fluoridation (a pollutant) and give me the Mexican Weed.
The stuff worth fighting is the 'legal' stuff.
Health care, like the weather, is one of the two topics that Canadians LOVE to complain about. But when it comes down to brass tacks, I don't think you'll find a single one who'd give up our system for that of the US.
My mother is currently recovering from major spinal surgery. We live in Ontario, where indeed most of the "horror stories" originate. Her surgery was to be done in Sudbury, where the hospital has been under fire for long waiting lists and lack of beds. We live in a small town where there aren't any local specialists, but the Ontario system reimburses travel expenses (including hotel and extra payment to a travel companion if one is necessary for safety reasons) for referrals. She got a local CAT scan on a day's notice, Sudbury MRI with less than two weeks' wait, then after that there was a five month wait for the surgery itself, which was done in May. It wasn't an emergency and the wait was no longer than promised.
It was a five hour operation, plus she had to get a CAT scan and chest X-ray the morning of the surgery. Breezed through it all, treated exceptionally well by dedicated and professional staff.
She was told she'd have to pay for her back brace (that she'll be wearing through September) but there's been no sign of a bill yet. If it ever arrives, it'll supposedly be around $250.
Mom's self-employed and doesn't have any prescription coverage, so we were a bit worried about that. However, we quickly discovered that the local Community Care and Access Centre, funded by local service clubs and government grants, provides free home care (both nursing and general housekeeping), medical equipment, and prescriptions. So thus far this surgery hasn't cost mom a cent. All I had to do was keep her little business rolling to cover the rent. And she just needs to focus on recuperating.
My aunt, living in Texas for the past 15 years or so, spent June with mom and was freaked out by all of this. She's prone to making ignorant comments about our "socialized" medical system. I'm pretty sure this isn't socialism: all I know is that I can talk to a doctor whenever I need to, and it's not going to cost me anything. I can't believe anyone would seriously defend any other arrangement!
One of our older, esteemed CBC guys once said something like, "Canadians, as a nation, like to sit indoors and shudder at weather forecasts." As in, that's what we do: we don't worry about fascists breaking down our front doors, or being tossed into the streets, or crime.
We also like to complain about bank service charges, and the price of lettuce in the winter. That'll keep a conversation going for hours.
And people say we're bland. Pfft!
God yes. The Weather, the lettuce and the Bank's ripping us off.
There is a reason there are no loan sharks anymore. They are called banks.
I'd like to know more of what the Texas aunt thought about it. 'Freaked out' how? Worried that her family was living in a communist country? Surely she could see how well the system worked. Did she concede any of it?
For the most part my American relatives are envious of our health care. But most of them live in New England, not Texas....
Thom Hartmann is one of the three smartest people on radio and I don't know who the other two are. Sirius satellite radio in all their right wing wisdom only carried him for one fucking hour so they can put that good for nothing bitch Lynn Samuels for two hours. I had two Sirius radios but canceled one that I used for the daytime in my car.
..and one of the smartest thing about him is that he presents a consistent image of moderate calm. He's never strident, and only a fool would describe him with the usual epithets of radical, extremist, etc. that the radical right throws around all the time.
One thing that surprised me about this story was that Thom, a very well informed progressive, seemed to be not well informed at all on the subject of Canadian health care. I thought he was well traveled, but I guess he's never come up here.
I'm sure he knows all about the Canadian system. He was just letting somebody else talk about it and by asking the questions he asked he was drawing her out. Getting her to answer questions he thought would help explain it instead of just letting her talk on and on. I'm sure he is very familiar with the Canadian system for sure.
..he was acting as a surrogate for his audience, asking the questions he thought they would ask. It's a common and useful technique.
Now if he could only teach it to Wolf Blitzer, who only acts as a surrogate for KKKarl Rove and Duck! Cheney.
If it's not CBC radio it's commercial crap.
Thom recounts one of his brothers' lost battles with Blue Cross Blue Shield over an $81 blood test prescribed by his doctor after an unexpected allergic reaction to a medication prescribed by the same doctor.
Watch it - it is OUTRAGEOUS !!
And then Thom goes off on the Health Insurance industry - tells it like it is.
(YouTube) Thom Hartmann: Healthcare Meltdown
The smartest person on radio is Thom Hartman. The smartest person on TV is Rachel Maddow. And they're both Liberal Democrats.
The dumbest person on radio is Rush Limbaugh. The dumbest person on TV is Glenn Beck. Both are Conservative Republicans.
my mind! I concur and agree... Thom and Rachel are brilliant. Those other two you mention by name are fools!
...except Alberta does NOT in fact pay for our prescription drugs. I don't know where Sara Robinson got that information, but it is not true.
We here in Alberta either pay for our own prescription drugs or we have supplemental plans (mostly employer sponsored) to pay for them.
One thing she neglected to mention --- although most of you already know --- is drugs are mostly cheaper here in Canada than in the U.S. In some extreme cases, they can cost less than 10% of what Americans pay, although that is rare.
A currently unemployed friend told me last night that her doctor prescribed a cream for a precancerous skin condition. The generic price for the cream was $700 (I'm not sure what her copay was, or if she even had prescription coverage.) She checked online and found a Canadian pharmacy selling the same cream for $65. Totally ridiculous!
As a canuck who works in a hospital ( physio )I have to say Ms Robinson's depiction of our system was spot on. I think the U.S. insurance system should be relabeled HEALTHY CARE INSURANCE - you pay the premiums when you are healthy and are able to partake of the services as long as you are healthy - otherwise you are SOL.
I'm watching the CBC website to see when it will be posted, but the radio news this morning ran a story that rips the credibility of the Canadian woman who is being used in the US ads claiming she had to go to the US for treatment or she would have died.
One doctor said he'd never heard of anyone dying from her condition. Another one said that in most cases they are never urgent and are dealt slowly over time. If it was an urgent and threatening case (triage, again) she would have been operated on immediately.
It was not urgent. She was triaged and scheduled for elective surgery at a later date than she was happy with.
Like my neighbour, in June I told her I was going to knock down my fence in August so she started thinking about putting in a sidewalk there and now she's bugging the crap out of me to pay someone to knock it down right away.
One thing is for sure..right wing Republicans have no love for Canada-some truely despise Canada.
They seem to think Canada is some backwards banana republic. WHY do they hold such distain for our neighbor to the North?
those right-wing republicans who have no love for Canada only love our natural resources, and want to steal them from us at a price that they can then inflate for their markets. Oh it's true!
Personally I'm glad they have no love for Canada because I don't what those efftards here EVER. I'd like them to all eff off and stay where they are... in hell and a pile o'shite of their own making.
I have a friend who is about 70. A few years ago her Canadian doctors called her up and insisted she check into the hospital immediately to have surgery for stomach cancer. She didn't have to wait in line. She didn't have any problems getting her operation. They demanded she go to the hospital, rather than the other way around. They removed the cancer. She went home in a few days. She never got a bill for one cent. She's had no reccurrence. End of story. The GOPS and the insurance industry are LYING about Canadian healthcare, which is top drawer.
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