Stephen Moore Claims He's Never Seen Any Guns or Swastikas at the Tea Bag Protests
From Washington Journal Sunday Sept. 20, 2009.
Kevin Baker, Harper’s Magazine & Stephen Moore, Wall Street Journal, discussed the Obama Presidency so far, and news of the week.
After hearing from a caller that accuses Harper's Kevin Baker of being insulting to the protesters by calling them "tea baggers" and astroturf and calling him "wimpy" to boot, Baker explains that he isn't the one that came up with that term. Baker says he'd be happy to go head to head with those protesting and attend some of the protests himself- as long as none of them bring their automatic weapons.
Moore then goes on to defend the protesters by blaming President Obama for polarizing the country. Baker says nothing justifies showing up with automatic weapons and with signs saying that the Tree of Liberty needs to be watered with blood and notes how polarizing that is.
Then Moore adds this.
Moore: I was out there. I didn't see anybody with... (crosstalk) I didn't see any... with all due respect; in all the events I've been to I've never seen anybody with a swastika. I've never seen anybody with a gun and these people are not anti-American.
Moderator: We've got to wrap it up there...
Baker: I've seen them repeatedly.
Hey Stephen, just because you didn't see it personally- which I don't believe for one minute about the swastikas- doesn't mean it's didn't happen. I don't know who Moore thinks he's kidding but I wish the time hadn't run out on the segment so Baker could have had a shot at rebutting him after making that ridiculous statement. There is not a chance in hell he doesn't know full well that people brought both.
I have to ask Mr. Moore, have you even been to one of these "Tea Bag" parties or whatever? The reason I ask is that there are new pictures of signs uploaded to the internet every day of some person with their swastikas and guns and very violent wording. You don't have to be a scientist to search for them. It is out there, and easy to see. These people are proud of their signs, their swastikas, and their guns. They don't mind that you see them.
Encouraging any hateful and mindless responses to a political figure or ideal is not only foolish, it is dangerous. The tide can turn and something you care about could be at risk. Be very careful petting THIS tiger, it really only sees you as meat, after all.
Funny how time always seems to run out just as the conservative tool is gonna have to put up or shut up...
While I might believe that Moore might have been in a place where there were no swastikas or guns, I fail to believe that he did not see any of the coverage of the events which clearly showed both. Then again he may have only seen coverage from the event promoter Fox.
Stephen Moore never saw it because the Obama in Joker face sign he was carrying obscured his vision.
when your head is shoved up FOX's ass.
He couldn't see them through his white hood.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. ~ Abraham Lincoln
I must have missed something, but I haven't heard reports that any of the weapons that have been publicized as appearing at these events have been fully automatic. I'm not surprised if one or two do appear, but to blanket-label all the rifles that have been seen as "automatic" is disingenuous.
I know there's a very strong anti-all-guns stance here, but I'd at least like to see a little semblance of intellectual honesty.
who aren't acquainted with firearms see an AR-15 and think that it's an M-16.
People were arrested for wearing T-shirts at Bush rallies, so FUCK your "intellectual honesty."
Not everybody spends their their lives beating off to "Guns and Ammo."
And those arrests were total, and utter BS. Bush was a joke of a leader, who couldn't handle contradiction.
And assumptions are dangerous, that's the key here.
People who aren't acquainted with -me-, for example, think that just because I'm pro-gun, I must be pro-Bush. Intellectual honesty isn't just some lame co-opted buzzword on the side of the right, it's what the right wing is practically devoid of.
Liberals need to be striving to show that they are the better side, and railing against intellectual honesty is not a way to do it.
Where is the intellectual honesty in the straw-man "...to blanket-label all the rifles that have been seen as "automatic"..." arguement. As a gun affectionado I'd expect you to be aware of the pistol variety of fully automatic weapons (fully auto means you don't have to cock the hammer in pistols and means you dont have to keep pulling the trigger in rifles IIRC), which were carried to rallies, some of which the President attended. They said "guns" not "rifles" or even "firearms" which should have clued you into the "non-technical" nature of the discussion from the get go.
There's a vast difference between double-action pistols and fully automatic handguns. Not once have I seen the two labeled together as "automatic weapons" by anyone who wasn't being dishonest with the goal of controlling one as equivalent to the other.
Whether or not the discussion is non-technical, it bothers me to see it framed in a way that does nothing but inflame the argument.
Words have meaning, they convey a message.
This statement:
"... nothing justifies showing up with automatic weapons ..."
implies people were showing up with automatic weapons. It is disingenous to imply people were showing up with automatic weapons if they were not.
And why do people keep going back to "well, under GWB, such and such happened" as some kind of excuse for rationalizing corrupt behavior of the current regime? If it was wrong then, then it is wrong now. Talk about intellectual dishonesty...
Like it matters? I'm one of the people that really doesn't give a shit about guns, I don't care if you have them and I don't understand the need for them. I do have concerns when they end up in the hands of the crazed and showing up to a public event with the President near does not speak to a person's maturity or sanity.
WHO claimed that all the rifles that have been seen were "automatic"? Talk about disingenuous!
Tellar, isn't the largest point that they came to protest rallys with fucking guns? Who the hell cares what kind of gun? What a stupid and pointless post. Some people came ARMED to a supposedly peaceful rally. Jesus Christo.
They're almost all about guns.
And the Constitutional Right to take them anywhere, any time.
Must suck to be so goddam frightened that you have to have a gun all the time.
Doesn't it poke your spouse when you poke your spouse, Tellar?
Timjoebilly whatever? He's always looking for those out to get him and his family. Last I checked I believe that's called paranoid.
The reason most of my posts tend to be about guns, is because I'm one of those people who really struggles with the fact that I'm a liberal thinker in almost every area except for the idea of gun control.
My agreement with most articles on this site tends to find me with nothing new to say, and no addition to the dialogue worth making. Only on the subject of guns do I tend to feel as though there's room for input.
Since my post history is being noted, I'll go ahead and add a few statements of my beliefs to it.
I am not an advocate of "open carry", though I understand how some are.
I believe that every firearm transaction that takes place in a business or "gun show" event should be subject to background checks unless the purchaser is in possession of a valid, confirmed permit exempting him or her from time-of-purchase checks.
I believe that in areas of significant concern, firearms should be prohibited. Conversely, I believe that many situations where people here and elsewhere have brought up concerns, existing laws do exist where they can be enforced.
I do not have a concealed carry permit, nor do I carry a weapon outside my home for anything other than target shooting at the local range.
You folks are making a lot of generalizations about me, simply based on the fact that I believe the second amendment is as important as I believe the first to be.
was not about you, unless you've changed your user name.
I would have addressed you directly, if I was speaking to you, which I was not. Timjoe (whatever other names he has attached to it) regularly posts about gun issues here and they always relate to someone trying to hurt him or his family as if it was a daily occurrence.
I understood that, and was primarily replying to your post with comments suitable to reply to the ones earlier in the thread regarding my original.
My post was really intended to be something people can look at next time to see where I stand in particular, since it had come up.
The person you're speaking of definitely sounds like they have something of a fear problem.
seem like a reasonable person and guns as a topic gets people going - good and bad. I liked what you had to say upthread. I've had lots of discussions about guns with my Republican buddy from nursing school and I've even agreed to go shooting with him. I doubt that I'll ever own a gun, but I'm trying to understand why they are important to people and keep an open mind about it.
One's mind is pretty open once a large chunk of their skull's been blown away.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You have to understand, some of these people take a gun with them when they go to the bathroom… ya know, just in case…
But to the original point -- disingenuous -- if someone had been spotted anywhere within a 20 block radius of Bush with a pea shooter the Secret Service, Local Police, hell who knows, even the NSA, would have had that person face down on the ground in handcuffs before a photog had a chance to snap a picture.
I do understand that some of these people really do fetishize guns to an unhealthy, even sick extent. But there are a number (albeit a small one) of liberal gun owners who really believe there needs to be a shift in the culture of gun ownership.
You're right, under Bush the secret service would have taken that person into the first of a series of very dark and unpleasant rooms, and there's a pretty good chance they wouldn't have gotten out before Obama's second term.
What I'm getting SICK and TIRED of is the excuse "well look what they did to Bush! They painted him as Hitler too".
TRUE, some protesters did, but there wasn't a popular talking head on a "news" channel comparing Bush & Hitler on a regular basis.
I'm convinced this is revenge from Bush/Cheney/PNAC supporters who just want to get back at those who dared question their precious Bushie-poo.
Of course he hasn't seen any guns or swatikas what with his head being all the way up his ass and all.
Too easy.
Moore is nothing but an apologist for free trade ideologues who thinks he is funny. He is a total waste.
Has anyone ever seen this toolbag on Bill Maher's show? The intensity in which he laughs at his own "jokes" is embarrassing.
YES! Thanks for the reminder. Personally, when I see him, I can't help but think of that awesome Colbert segment, the DOOM BUNKER.
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-repo...
just ask all those tea-baggers that read the WSJ.
They know how to read?
I think they read in snipets, bumper-sticker, slogan, sound-bite, monosyllabic ways. So, I guess they kind of read. (I was being kind of snarky)
I see no ships.
Maybe we should get the Woodstock sequels to run these tea bag rallies, and charge $8.00 for a cup of water.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Maybe if Mister Moore pulled his head from his ass...
This is why I rarely argue with these people.
They. Lie. Constantly.
The only thing you get for arguing with liars is anger and frustration.
I try to talk sense to the undecideds but not the baggers and Beckerheads.
I love it when people come on this site and act all butch, especially about the "right to own guns," and when I tell them about my military background, and ask about theirs, they try to make it sound like I'm claiming an entitlement to speak to deny theirs.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Yeah, but they advocate for war. See? That automatically makes them macho and shit.
probably sat in their own excrement and urine like Ted Nugent to avoid service.
Would you rather they did in someone elses?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
that make them less obnoxious or crazy? Well, know that I think about it.....
Where the signs for the bathroom...no foolin'...quick!!!
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Mmmmmmmmmm...
I've never seen Mr. Moore at one of these rallies. Come to think of it, I don't think I've EVER seen him in person. He must not exist either.
Must be the result of partaking in all those McCain BBQs.
or just dumb?.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Somebody killed a Census worker in Kentucky and put the sign "Fed" on their chest, Glenn Beck must be really really proud of himself.
Its starting, the teabagger/militia types are moving.
And on a vaguely related note, 'Insane killer recaptured' but Glenn Beck still at large...
"determine if there was foul play involved." Nah, these things happen every day. Thanks for the link, otherwise, I would not have known about this man's death.
Also, who the hell thinks it's a good idea to take a prisoner like that to a fair? My husband and I had a laugh about Cuckoo's Nest, but those guys were rather harmless.
emboldened by it.
We already know about the abortion doctor, given the green light by O'Reilly.
The police in Philly killed by a Glenn Beck watcher who was afraid the gov't was coming to take his guns.
The church shooter who left a manifesto that sounded like a typical Beck show.
This isn't another random murder. It's part of a trend at best. And possibly the beginning of a bloody civil war.
And all thanks to lies and manipulation spread by outright propagandists.
More at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/23/cens...
...and it's been pretty cloudy, so with all due respect I think the continued existence of the sun is debatable.
I mean, the "Scientists" all say it's preposterous to theorize that the sun has, in fact, gone out -- but this is all in the spirit of back-and-forth debate. All sides should be represented and respected in the great "Did God Extinguish the Sun Today?" debate.
Oh, about the Nazi symbols? Um, there's videotape. Lots and lots of it. Yeesh, talk about a dweeb.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
Then she'd hit me alongside my head with a wooden spoon.
The original Dancing with the Stars.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Well, this just smacks of teabagging to me:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/23/nat...
but I guess, in spite of that, I don't understand the demographics of my party. Explain to me one more time whose votes it is we'll be losing if we don't remain docile while Glenn Beck and fair and balanced Fox amass an army of maniacs to kill us. That's the part I'm having trouble with.
It's time to stop giving these people credibility by allowing them a public platform, not only as guests, but as hosts.
Somebody has to stand up and say, THIS is un-American.
Speaking out against your president because you don't agree with serious policy issues, whether it's about whether to go to war or whether to change the health care policy, is one thing.
But spreading fear and panic because it's good for ratings is as dangerous as (I'd argue more dangerous than) letting banks go on unregulated.
Glenn told the same lie to Katie Couric yesterday.
the fruits of their loins for much longer.
With the level of violence increasing at this pace. We've already seen several cases this year where murders have been directly linked to Fox News hosts and the Republican rhetoric.
has he seen everyone at every teabagger event? No? Then his claim has no merit whether it is truthful or not. And he want's us to believe he didn't see pics of it on the news, in papers, on the internet?
Lying sack.
me-oww!
is on Greta Van Stupid's show on Fox....
He's telling the drooling idiots who watch Fox that
THE SENATE HASN'T HAD TIME TO READ THE BILL (HR 3200)!!!!
Greta is also saying that THE BILL HASN'T BEEN AVAILABLE ONLINE!!!!
For God's sake! How stupid can you be?
What a silly question!!!
I have seen, up close, too bloody much of the handiwork
of guns. I am sick to hell with it.
But no excuse, a dispassionate argument would be better.
Hey, Stephen baby, polish up those GLASS EYES.
Your seeing eye dog saw them.
All you teabaggers/20%er's need to go to:
urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabagging
The definition given decribes them as being on the recieving end of a teabag! I don't recall from my early American history lessons about the Boston Tea Party that anyone was "tea-bagged," not even the British!
Didn't they usta refer to marijuana as tea?
I'd flip my lid for a teabag.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Again, I don't see where the Dems appeasing these people is going to gain them anything at all. Teabaggers are like children. They have no knowledge of how a constitutional government or anything else in the world works.
My son doesn't like to eat vegetables. If I wanted to appease him, make him happy in the moment, I'd give him hamburgers, Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, and Gatorade for dinner. He'd think that a fine meal because he's a child and doesn't know better. How are the teabaggers any different in their thinking and why are we even entertaining their gripes at all?
Stephen Moore is a Serial Liar.
It has to be his 2004 book, Bullish on Bush: How George Bush's Ownership Society Will Make America Stronger link ..and he claims to be an economist! Stephen Moore you are an fraud!
When you have you're head shoved up your ass all the way to your knees, you realy don't see much of ANYTHING now do you?
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