Rove Claims History Will Be Kind to Bush
By Heather Saturday Dec 27, 2008 6:00pm
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On Fox's On the Record with Greta Van Susteren, news model guest host Jamie Colby gives Karl Rove a chance to do a bit of revisionist history with the Bush legacy and how he'll be remembered.
Colby: Karl before I let you go much of what the President-elect inherits, the tough economic times, the war as you raised, health care, so many issues facing so many Americans. There's a lot of finger pointing that the Bush administration is responsible for a lot of what ails us right now and I wonder whether at the time that the President Bush took office he could not have predicted that we would have 9-11 and that national security needed to be priority number one. Do you predict in the end the legacy for President Bush will be that we have not had another terrorist attack? That he has kept us safe and that his priorities were in order?
Rove: I think that will be a big part of it. I think history is going to see him as a man who put America on a war footing in a struggle that will have shaped the nature of this century. He will be seen as someone who liberated Afghanistan and Iraq. Fifty million people now live in freedom in those two countries who did not know freedom before. And he will also be seen as somebody who's created a strategy to confront terrorism that is going to make America and the world safer in the years to come.
Look, judgments of history are harsh in the short run and unfairly so many times. Harry S. Truman left office. In fact the slogan at the time was "To err is Truman". He left town not very popular and yet history regards him now as a much different person and I think this President is not going to leave office with that same state. He's going to be at a relatively low ratings but much better than some of his predecessors. History though is going to be kind to him at the end. I'm absolutely confident of that.
I've got news for you Karl. WORST. PRESIDENT. EVER. Keep trying. It won't work. Now if we could just get you off of Fox News and into a jail cell where you belong. Hey Democrats. See this guy? He's sticking his middle finger in your face every single time he goes on the television when you've let him go Scott free for ignoring Congressional subpoenas.
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Why, why, why, why? Why won't he die a horrible death on camera?
...in front of a firing squad. Isn't that what they used to do to traitors?
a stoke while then living 20 years as a vegetable.
he wont know anything
i want him to get an awful disease that gives him pain for 20 years
he deserves a very slow and painful death
I hope Karma has tivo or is making a record of this. The entire administration is guilty.
The Bush Legacy has just began and it will be a horror of this century. We've heard of pass evil leaders like Hitler, Stalin and others. As the truth comes out after Jan. 20th with the crimes and human suffering Bush/Cheney have caused around the World it will be worse then Nixon. Murder, stealing, threats, torture, rape and so much more has been done over the 8 years that will not only shock Americans but it will shock the World.
the Truth is out now.
and jack shit has been done about it.
after Jan 20, jack shit will continue.
Right you are Truth B Told. Obama will change nothing and nobody will be punished for any of the crimes of the Bush regime.
.....Right you are Truth B Told. Obama will change nothing and nobody will be punished for any of the crimes of the Bush regime......
But Fox News really seems to have a problem with Joe Biden. I wonder what THAT'S all about?
Obama won't focus on putting these criminals behind bars at the start. But he won't get in the way of what Nadler, Wexler and others are initiating. And, eventually, he will put the power of the presidency behind their efforts. Rove and Cheney (maybe Bush) will "boil in oil", but it will take time.
just cause he started a preemptive war with iraq in retribution for 911 based on intel that was later proven wrong, just cause he began this war with no money and he didn' ask the american people to sacrifice anything, in fact he asked them only to go shopping. just cause he chose to continue reading my pet goat with a look of deer in the headlights look while america was being attacked. just because he chose to ignore the people of new orleans while katrina wreaked its havok rendering american people floundering and dying on national tv. just because of all of this and a heck of a lot more, karl rove is wrong when he says history will look at bush fondly. history will not be told by rush, hannity or fox, it will be told by scholars who will judge this admin and bush and rove and cheney for the scurrilous crooks that they are. oh that impeachment were still on the table.
I have some questions about George continuing to sit and read while the attack was going on. Isn't it the job of the Secret Service to make sure that the president is safe at all times? How come Bush was not hustled out the door the moment that second plane hit? The explanation given, that they didn't want to scare the children, is so bogus that even a moron can see through it. Bush was in a known location. His visit there had been announced weeks before 9/11. How did the Secret Service KNOW that there was no airplane coming for that very building. How did they KNOW that there wasn't a team of terrorists preparing to storm the building? Why did they let him not only sit there for minutes, but also to do a press conference. I am pretty sure that the Secret Service doesn't employ mind readers or agents able to read the future, so once again HOW DID THEY KNOW?
From Jerrold Nadler:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/12/26-0
Arrest him!
George Bush…
Indict him!
Not a chance in hell.
WORST
PRESIDENT
E V E R
*
What does Dubya need with toilet tissue when Rove's tongue is so ready and willing to do the job?
but true...
What does Dubya need with toilet tissue when Rove's tongue is so ready and willing to do the job?
I thought that was what pigs are for and since Rove act look and bleat like one it's the most appropriate thing for him to do.
Why is he not in jail? For that matter, why are THEY ALL not in jail?
There is no justice, and gawd help us all.
Subpoena thang???
along with trillions of dollars, didn't they.
The untold number of dead, innocent victims dubya et al leave in their wake is truly staggering.
There is no word to describe my revulsion.
That is what bothers me the most now. There isn't likely to be any justice served to these murderous assholes ever. Rove more than likely bumped off Connell too. The lack of accountability will continue to make the USA the laughing stock of the planet. I think every backboned American needs to start giving justice the finger too. Tell them to fuck off the next time you get a supeona and cite Rove vs Spineless Dems as precedent. If its good enough for the pigs ? has to be ok for the sheeple too don't it ?
If Rove thinks history is going to be kind to Bush, he's out of his dishonest, psychopathic little skull. To claim that Bush has prevented further terrorist attacks doesn't mean a whole lot when the total body of evidence points to Bushco/PNAC as being the ones who orchestrated and executed both 9/11 and the subsequent anthrax attacks. There is inevitably going to come a time when this is understood and accepted by the general public. It will be widely known that these traitors committed an act of war against the US, randomly murdering innocent Americans, in order to further their agenda for global hegemony, personal power, riches and for advancing their idea of the ideal state. It will be understood that Bush and crew, including rove, are gleeful, bloody-handed serial mass-murderers, America's arch criminals for all time. For their own sakes, Rove should be hoping that enouh time has passed by the time that this happens that the entire crew has passed on to its final reward.
Obama won't do squat about it - 9-11.
If he did, and they were proved true, it would destroy this nation.
the Powers that Be won't allow that.
Can you imagine the civil war that would result from the Truth getting out and being accepted?
It won't happen because the greater American consciousness cannot conceive - and permit - this revelation.
It'd make a hell of a movie though, wouldn't it?
Fortunately, it doesn't depend on Obama. Truth is seaping out, and try as they inevitably will, the powers-that-be won't be able to suppress it. It may well come to a time that internal peace will depend upon the exercise of justice. My bet is that the emerging efforts that are developing abroad to hold Bush and crew accountable for crimes against humanity, crimes against the peace and war crimes will will end up being the ultimate avenue of justice, and all that it will require is for the Dems to do what they do best: capitulate - this time by granting extradition requests.
There are no "powers" greater than the leader of the free world.
Come January 20th President Barack Obama will be the most powerful man in the world. I thought silly conspiracy theories were frowned upon here. *sigh*
It's the information age. Even though they got their own revisionist site up (Conservapedia) -- they'll just be spitting in the wind. The available documentation on the truth about Dumbya's tenure is widely available.
They might be able to buy-off some of the text-book companies - and dumb-down the schools history curriculum - BUT the truth will not be hidden as long as the internet is alive.
*
It's the Mohammed Atta style.
fat boy! WORST PRESIDENT EVER. Nothing your lying ass can change.
dont you get it yet??? thier all except a very few in this criminal activity together , you cant get to bush and cheny , why? because youd have to frogmarch every swinging dick and gina off capitol hill and arrest the whole god damned bunch for the thieves and traitors they are!
Republicans cannot function in the present. They're either heroes according to their rewritten past history or heroes according to their pre-written future history. If they weren't so dangerous to my country, I might feel sorry for them. But since they are so dangerous, I do my best to put them out of business.
...and I'm sure they will do their best to paint "the idiot president" as something more than he could ever imagine. I hope that historians start writing books and info TODAY, and that it will be damn hard to refute the toilet he has brought this country into.
As for "keeping us safe"?....he didn't keep us so damn safe on 9/11. He didn't keep us so damn safe by starting a war in Iraq that has only served to multiply the jihadists that hate us today.
Nice going dubya...ya f*cking idiot!
I'm thinking some people thought the Inquisition was a good idea at the time, too....
Why is it some mass murderers swing from the gallows (Saddam) while others (we all know who) get off scot free?
there is no justice.
No... there is justice. But we cannot enforce it in the current political system.
You all know its rigged. You all know - that to the political elites - that you're meaningless scum; that they are untouchable.
KKKarl Rove is only talking to the people who watch Fixed Noise and he is talking to try to stay out of jail for one more day. He is a criminal and will go to jail someday. There is a truism in this world and that is that what goes around, comes around and KKKarl will pay for every one of his evil deads.
Karl Rove is an arse upon which everything has sat except a human, while George Bush is a dingleberry in the shitpile of history.
Rove is whack.
But I'm certain Goebbels said the same thing about Ole' Adolf, too.
Traitors one and all. Rove should have the choice of a firing squad or hanging. That is his history.
Bush and his minions are all criminals. I am so sick and tired of hearing them defend the guy and give him credit for anything. Has the United States been attacked in the past 8 years, since 9-11? No, we have not. But other parts of the world have been.
And, the thing that these bastards don't say is that we WERE attacked on 9-11, 8 months into the Bush presidency. And the people who attacked us are in safe hiding somewhere in Pakistan, near Afghanistan, because Bush decided foolishly to go into Iraq and take his eyes off of Afghanistan.
Bastards....one and all.
Trying to defend W's legacy is sort of like how, as a Virginia resident, landscape developers have been attempting to preserve some wooded areas near where malls are built between Sterling and Dulles, VA where they believe George Washington's horse left manure there some 210+ years ago.
Then again, it may be like what Alicia Silverstone said in the movie, "Clueless" - "...trying to find meaning in a Paulie Shore film".
Bush will be a hemorrhoid on history's sphincter.
...history's sphincter...and of course Rove is the turd!
History will see Bush as a miserable failure and Karl Rove as a traitor.
Traitor all.
Do not historians have ,like all other people, an obligation to be kind to the mentally handicapped.
Bubbleheaded Blonde Fox News Shill "Do you predict in the end the legacy for President Bush will be that we have not had another terrorist attack? That he has kept us safe and that his priorities were in order.........and that he walked on water and feed 1000 people with 1 loaf of bread?"
Seriously, except for poet Pushkin all other top candidates are either pro-Tsarists or anti-democratic thugs. We humans seem drawn to the idea of tyranny and madness at the top. Not to mention the lure of dynasties. Must be in our DNA.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7798497.stm
I'm going to give George credit for the alien invasion that didn't take place, also the prevention of our sun going nova, and the failure of super-ebola to strike. Why there are endless things that didn't happen that George can claim credit for. You just have to use your imagination.
When your record is miserable failure across the board you have to reach for something, anything, and preventing a tara-ist attack that would have never happened anyway is the best they got after 8 years of debt, death, destruction, recession and a possible depression. Gotta keep the bedwetters cowering in fear over something, gay marriage, terrorists, etc...so they'll let the GOP continue to f*ck em.
On his watch, we didn't get hit by an asteroid. We didn't get sucked into a black hole. The galaxy didn't get merged into another galaxy. And, the mole people didn't attack. See how wonderful dear leader is?
2012 didn't happen, but that's because it won't happen until 2012. That's for Barack to handle.
I wonder if Rove will push for some kind of "St. Crony's Day" such as the "declarated Mission Accomplished" on the aircraft carrier for the jingoists on May 1. May 1 may become "Jingoist Day" or something like that in attempt to paint a rosy color like what could be done on poop, even though it would still be poop.
How about "Put the traitor before a firing squad day"?
Not a bad idea, G&B! Although, that may only come if Rove, Bush, et al. are held accountable and face justice (if any) before a world court.
Will never happen. Republicans are against a world court because, you know, they want to protect us. It has absolutely nothing to do with protecting them from being hauled before the Hague.
Whenever a Republican says they are for or against something to protect Americans you better be damn sure in reality it is to protect themselves and there interests and has little or nothing to do with protecting us.
George W. Bush may never know the consequences of his actions since he has lived mostly a cushy life under his political dynasty with his father and political/financial inheritence from his grandpa Prescott.
From Grandpa Prescott who collaborated with the Nazis to George Bush who's criminal regime outed a CIA agent. Traitorous activities run in the Bush clan it would appear.
Seems like that they go in the following order:
Prescott Bush - Nazi contributor
George HW Bush - NWO
George W. Bush - Patrio-Christofascism on/of terror
Clinton was impeached over a consensual sexual relation and this pudgy, pasty white, puss filled, turdblossom outed a CIA agent and he gets to stand there and spin and lie through his teeth.
for a "blanket pardon" that will prevent prosecution for any and all possible illegal deeds while he served the president. If that happens (and I would estimate that the odds are about 50-50 right now that it will) then it will be up to THE PEOPLE to bring JUSTICE to this turd-blossem-of-a-man. I would suggest SHUNNING to start with... and if he continues to make a PEST of himself... then HOT TAR AND CHICKEN FEATHERS would be appropriate.
These people are going to have to spend the rest of their lives looking over their shoulders. That's something.
history will trash GWB (rightfully so), but will be worse on America for electing these people in the first instance. And if we don't prosecute them then, well, they'll just marvel at the end of the American empire.
The red staters are always waving flags crowing about how much they love Amerika chanting "USA! USA! USA!" and they are the ones who got Bush elected twice and Bush has wrecked Amerika.
Good thing those redstaters protected America from all those libruls and homersexuls who seeked to ruin the country! Maybe when they're standing in the unemployment line with their house in foreclosure they'll reflect back on how much Adam and Steve getting married would have really affected their lives after all. ...that is if there is any unemployment insurance available for them to collect thanks to the GOP trying to sever as many safety nets for them as possible. Or perhaps when coal sludge is rushing through their living rooms they'll think about it then.
Jimmy Carter explains, in detail, what the cumulative effects are of TAR and FEATHERS in his novel set during the Revolutionary war. That was a typical punishment for treasonous acts perpetrated against citizens by loyalists to the Crown. It was the hot tar that would cause serious burns over the body... causing much pain and discomfort. Some victims died... especially due to hot sticky tar running down naked skin and pooling in the victim's boots causing blistered and burnt skin... open sores... infections... and sometimes gangrene, and death.
Like I said. This would be appropriate for the TREASONOUS KKKarl Rove.
Hell, just push the bastard in the La Brea tar pits and let him rot with the other dinosaurs.
bush ran in 2000 on saying he knew better on how to keep the us secure
this is all bullshit
and so what if we havent had an attack on our soil (we have tho) he destroyed the country in order to make that so
Even though there hasn't been a terrorist attack in America since 9/11 that doesn't mean at all that we are any safer. There have been numerous natural disasters and collapses of our infrastructure, and yet, W thinks we are "safer" as a result of no terrorist attacks on US soil. Bill Maher suggested shortly after Hurricane Katrina that Bush might say, "we face mother nature over there so we don't have to face it hear at home." As for terrorism, there have been numerous terrorist hits across the globe, so I'm not sure if that necessarily makes us as Americans any "safer". It all seems like W's aim to "face them over there so we don't have to face them at home." But, people are still dying because of all his failed policies both American and those over there.
I don't know. Seems to me somewhere there is a 50 yard line with Karl's name on it.
Why do we keep publishing the BS coming from criminals as Rove and others.
If they are ignored then they will disappear...
We keep giving them credibility by posting their BS...
But I sadly know they will not. And I would hope calling them out for their B.S. is not lending them and credibility, but instead making it a bit harder for them to be successful with their attempted re-writing of history.
Considering the Bush administration's duplicity with regard to the necessity of taking up arms against Saddam and its outright assault on the rights of its own people, the present times have been exceedingly charitable toward Bush; it's difficult to conceive how history could judge him any more kindly.
This man at the least needs to be in jail. I wonder what history will say about his evil ass?
Arrested, renditioned, "interrogated" by Bush approved methods like waterboarding, tried in the Hague, convicted and finally sentenced to the punishment he loved to dole out on others.
This is surprising ? What else would we EXPECT from Rove but blatant in your face BS ?
You think history will be kinder to Bush? You really think that? If you do, then you are a fool. If anything, the present is treating Bush somewhat kind because not all the truth has been brought to light. In forty years or so (if the USA is still around), files will be declassfied, people will be on their death beds, and secrets will be told. Believe that you will get away with everything, but the generations of people that you so willingly fucked over in order to get your money and power will not forget, trust me on this. I'm a patient woman, and I can wait. Justice will not escape you nor your cronies.
Think about it. How many historical screw-ups can you name off the top of your head that george bush has committed. 5? 10?
How many do you really think have occurred?
When someone screws up to the degree george bush has, there is no way to honestly take stock in all of them. Hell, I can remember times when my own righteous indignations over-lapped! Sure, he'll go down in history as the worst president ever, but...we have already forgotten a few of his major screw-ups. Over time, many of them will be morphed together, which will lessen the overall negative opinion.
I really don't see his undermining the readiness of our military by invading Iraq unnecessarily as being a major deal, because those with PTSD will be dead.
I don't believe telecomm immunity will be remembered 50 years from now. I don't think anyone will remember the way this administration savaged Gen. Shinseki and Gen. Zinni's careers.
There are so many things to choose from and so little space in the history books. That leads me to believe his legacy will just be referred to as "worst," and left at that.
I'm not saying this isn't tragic, it's just the way it will play out, in my opinion and...if he and cheney are sent to the Hague, all bets are off.
"Fifty million people now live in freedom in those two countries who did not know freedom before. "
How can anyone with two or more brain cells consider an occupying army in your native land "Freedom"? Oops, forgot, we're talking about Fox News viewers.
My bad.
I'm down to one, and I don't believe.
Oh what a beautiful infomercial, all that was missing were the overly attentive stooge audience.
Caller: Hello Psychic Friends Network!? Will George Bush be remembered as someone who kept us safe?
Master Psychic: Hold on let me shake my magic 8 ball, oh yes definitely he will.
The very fact that FOX puts him on says all anyone needs to know about FOX.
"History will be kind to Bush"?
Only if you mean in the sense that the truth of his atrocities will be covered up, much like they were for the Crusaders, pope Pius XII, Motherfucking Teresa (as Penn Jillette calls her) and George Putz's buddy Ken Lay (but only because he died before facing the music).
History will only be kind if George Putz goes from the whitehouse to whitewash.
I know one thing for a fact that the CORPORATE CONTROLED MEDIA is out to make Bush and his CRIME family into a GREAT PRESIDENT. Rove(TURD BLOSSOM) is still walking and brathing the FREE air not in A ORANGE JUMP SUIT and LEGG IRONS. The starting of the big lie will be WHEN Jeb BUSH is Elected SENATOR this will be the CORPORATE CONTROLED MEDIA darling and He will start the ball roling with the HELP of the CCM and I do mean TV like all the news Channals like CNN(FOX'S sister channel) all your Talk Radio stations Like Chickenhawk LIMBAUGH, Yellow Coward HANNY and all the other CHICKENHAWKS in the REPUBLICAN PARTY, then you have the NEWSPAPERS that will just LOVE old JEB BUSH. YES I see the Bush Crime Family being made into A GREAT Eight YEARS. Also I will throw in the WEAK LEADERS OF the DEMOCRATIC PARTY Pelosie,Reid and the rest you know the names alos all the Democratic talking HEADS. Republican my friends and we like to work across the ILE, I could go on but you get MY drift. So yes I do see BUSH and Crime Family commimg away with no smell at all. Anyone like to say I am wrong.
The BBC is having a debate about this topic in January. I hope I can get BBC in Thailand (where I'll be then). Rove and the pudge-pot-smirking Kristoll are defending. Topic: Is Bush the Worst President? Tune in everyone. It's one where the audience votes at the end.
Fox News Beltway Boys making fun of Joe Biden. Me thinks, for very good reason, they are afraid of Joe Biden.
Karl needs to go back to Austin and put up his Lonestar flag. Surely it pained him greatly to look at the Stars and Stripes for eight years. He's not American. Never was and never will be.
Hague Time!!!
Oh, so that little blue pill I found on the floor of my second story bathroom in Austin was Viagara. Very interesting.
After Jan 20, then let's see what happens.
Obama has Bush's flight to Texas going to the Hague for War Crimes Hearings on Jan 20th.
It's been the word over here for several months that Laura is going to be moving into that house by herself.
and the logical conclusion of one of the worst administrative runs ever, starting with Ronnie, the dunce, and ending with Dubya, the village idiot, all selected by a national psyche that will take this country to its logical end!
The final history on George "War Criminal" Bush is far from being written. There is much work yet to do to bring this thug to justice for illegally and brutally invading one of God's countries and murdering well over one million human souls which still continues to this day. These types of crimes must not be allowed to continue in the 21st century, the human race must work together to put a stop to them.
There is no way history would be kind to Bush. The real question of this thread should be why is Rove not in jail? America wants to know!
Imagine what the 1960's would have been like if John Kennedy had looked Mike Wallace (CBS) in the eye and had said "History will be kind to me as The Bay Of Pigs was necessary to rid the world of a tyrant".
Maybe not a disease but how about solitary confinement? And waterboarding for Cheney. I still don't know what the right punishment would be for the chimp. Maybe kept naked in freezing temperatures and periodically attacked by dogs.
Any suggestion that torture is a solution, only emboldens them.
He well may have a point.
The Reagan administration was the most incompetent and criminal administration before Bush II and now they are looked on as the saviors of political mankind. The brain dead Reagan had the administration with over 230 federal indictments against members of his staff, helped to create the means for the failure of the savings and loan industry (wiped me out I can tell you). They helped to put in power the second worst administration up to that point, Bush the First. And let’s not forget that it was Reagan that started the slow death of both the labor unions and the slow spiraling end to the middle class as a dream and the focus of power in America.
Reagan is also the one that took the control of education from the states and started to have federal controls put in place that all but insured that education would only be possible for the rich or for those that rejected the institutional systems in favor of true discovery learning, which is great but does not have the recognition needed to gain social mobility that institutional education has.
Somewhere around the time of the Contract with America (I have a good memory about the insults of Congress) Reagan became a saint, and then towards the Clinton impeachment, Reagan became a Saint. George Walker Bush owes more to Reagan then he does to Rove or any of the flacks that helped him get and maintain power, and all Bush has to do is wait for the stink of his life and office to clear out before some political opportunist comes around and puts on the mantel of greatness over the knobby shoulders of the dithering fool that has single handedly brought the American Empire down to the level of a secondary want to be nation of sheep.
either prosecute bush, cheney and their cohort for WAR CRIMES, or history will indeed be kind to him.
"He's going to be at a relatively low ratings but much better than some of his predecessors." quote from Rove
I wonder how far back is he going, because since the time polls officially been taking there hasn't been a rating low as Bush below 20%!!!!!
The only way history will judge Bush better than now is when "Charles Mansion Hitler" becomes president!
I think the number one thing we must always keep in mind is the conservative record on history, it`s crap. They deal only in revisionism and stick their fingers in their ears and go la, la la, when confronted with facts. Ten years from now they will still be repeating their talking points (its all they have)in the hopes that repeating a lie often enough makes it true.
The economy got better under Clinton, well that was due to the brilliance of H.W. Bush. The economy tanked under Bush Jr. All Bill Clintons fault. When Obamas policies begin to turn things around they will claim that it was really delayed reaction to Jr`s policies.
Unfortunatly for them, even thugh they are already gearing up to murder more trees to proclaim to heaven and earth that their conservative policies actually did work, history tends to be written by historians and not pundits. With their anti-intellectualism in place they have no one to turn to.
I dont worry about history, Jr has destroyed his credibility with all of his lies, and as he does not have any real successes to coast on (something every other president before him can claim) his long-term prospects are even more dismal.
If he had ever done anything that resulted in real help for the less fortunate durring his tenure then maybe he`d have a real legacy, but at this point the Bush legacy consists of four things;
. His thousand yard stare on 9/11.
. His commander cod-piece/mission acomplished stunt.
. Playing the guitar while New Orleans drowned.
. Getting a pair of shoes thrown at his empty head.
Thats all the legacy he`s likely to ever get.
Why is he not in jail? He's still allowed to just run around, all willy nilly, and spread his trash. Give me a break.
Leave it to Rove and Fox News to keep coming with the GOP talking points.
That is the O-N-L-Y way history winds up being kind to the Shrubs.
And when - oh when is the Ghost of Truman going to materialize and verbally assault Rove and Company into stunned silence at the extremely overused and undeserved comparison of HST with GWB?
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