Richard Shelby Threatens Filibuster Over Auto Bailout
By Heather Monday Dec 08, 2008 9:00am
On Fox News Sunday Richard Shelby threatened to filibuster any bailout of the auto companies.
Wallace: Sen. Shelby you've been one of the leading critics of any bailout. From what you're hearing, $15 billion get them through till March, gonna' have an administrator to make sure they keep their promise. Will you support that?
Shelby: Well absolutely not. I think this is a bridge loan to nowhere. This is a down payment on many billions to come. This is not something that happened overnight. This is thirty years in the making. These companies basically have failed, are failing. They probably need according to some people about sixty percent of the management to go and about forty percent downsize of the workers. They've got to compete. They can't compete today and the question is will they be able to compete tomorrow. We would like to save them but they've got to save themselves and I don't believe they're willing to save themselves because they could be restructured, the right way and they don't want to do that.
Wallace: Are you and other Republicans prepared to filibuster this bill?
Shelby: Well I would ah, I think we need to debate it and that's what a filibuster is about and this week would be a good time to do it. I hope that we will be able to have an extended debate on it. We'll see what happens.
Wallace: Do you think you have the votes to sustain a filibuster?
Shelby: I don't know. It depends on what happens. In the mean time I know people want to get home for Christmas. They want to get out of here and come back. But what I fear Chris.
Wallace: Sounds like you're willing to hold Congress hostage here.
Shelby: The first, the first down payment, it's just the beginning. It's an installment plan of billions and billions and billions and we don't know the end game.
If Richard Shelby wants to filibuster the bill will the Democrats actually make him take to the floor and debate? If the Republicans want a filibuster I say break out the cots and let's have an actual filibuster.
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This low-lifer is simply protecting the foreign auto manufacturer's that he lured to Alabama with billion's in benefit's! He is looking out for his wallet!
Cretin!
Curtsie!
The first thing I always wonder when one of these cretins starts whining is "Who's paying you?"
I assume you take this stand because you believe that letting the already dead auto industry finally die is "union busting".
I have read about his connections and he is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.
The UAW is for the UAW and no one else. Write that shit down.
As for bailing out the auto makers, I say give the money to the new start ups in California.
or swallow your own excrement and expire...
Longtime organizer for the UCFW 789 in Minneapolis. Nice language by the way. UAW couldn't give a care about anyone besides the UAW. Period.
Couldda been woist
He coulda said poopies.
... at least get the name straight: UFCW.
okay, that's a simple typo, a common mixup of two letters. really...you are being ridiculous.
But since every reference to his "union" in this thread has been misspelled, I guess you can draw your own conclusions.
But I guess, I am just being ridiculous...
wow, you need to calm down.
"The UAW is for the UAW and no one else. Write that shit down."
You mean like all business owners are for themselves and no-one else? This is a ridiculous statement if I ever saw one. The UAW is a group of men and women who banded together to collectively bargain on their OWN behalf. Without the strength that comes with organized labor, you most likely would be working for starvation wages and 6 days a week.
I know their accomplishments...80 years ago.
What have they done for modern American workers?
Hmmm?
They are mindless American consumers that are about exclusion not inclusion. Do they support organizing retail workers? Do they support the New Labor Movement? No. They ride their Harleys to Walmart to buy wax for their SuVs.
As a former Wal-Mart employee, I can safely say that the lack of unions in Wal-Mart is strictly the fault of management. SOP for even talking about organizing is to shut the store down and fire everyone. Hell, when the meatpackers organized, they stopped cutting meat themselves and went to prepacked meat.
you mean toyota?
who are you kidding? the minute the competition dies, the wages start falling. Welcome to Mexicamerica.
Wages have been flat for 99% of Americans for 30 years.
Go big Unions!!! Lol...
Big Unions don't support universal workers rights.
They, by any means necessary, secure their rights to build inferior products at inflated wages.
They've only been flat since the ray gun years. The did start having trouble during the Ford/Carter years due to OPEC, "stagflation," and new Japanese competition, but it really seemed to hit during the ray gun years who was all for unions, as long as they stayed in Poland, and used to be a Union head himself.
As for building inferior products, that was more of the management decission making.
nice try buckoo...
why don't you actually try refuting the points he has made with cited sources and points? attacking someone's typos or just saying nice try does nothing for you.
as an engineer who has worked in union and non-union shops, i can tell you that unions are no good for a competitive business. A project that could take a day to do usually took 3 in a union shop, since job tasks are seperated and protected. it was crazy. in fact, the union shop lost a lot of business due to their inability to adapt.
don't get me wrong, unions have done a great deal in protecting workers rights, but they are a burden in our fast paced manufacturing world. on another point, non-union autoworkers at the toyota plants in alabama and kentucky make a decent wage, one that is competitive with other manufacturing wages.
the main problem with unions, however, is they make our job market less competitive. there is no incentive for people to go learn new skills if they are secured a job, and this hurts business and hurts the country by having outdated methods. if you don't believe me, see the impact of the NEA, which basically turned teaching into a blue collar job when it should be considered a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers.
for an engineer you sure do know the latest anti-union talking points down to a T.
look, you can say what you want, but i am sharing my experience. this is the problem with american society, once we get going on something good, noone wants to change or re-evaluate where they are. unions are good, but outdated and need to be adjusted for a new marketplace. i'll support unions if they allow for better flexibility in worker tasks and the ability to create competitive environments for workers.
not changing the way things work is actually not being very progressive. so please re-evaluate your stance instead of sticking to some old mantra that unions are the end all be all
they "secure their rights to build inferior products at inflated wages"? you claim that part of their struggle is to build inferior products? and this is what you do?
and "inflated" wages? loaded word. you think labor is paid too much?
odd admission for someone in a union.
i think he means companies like Zero motorbikes and Tesla motors, who both excel at making electric vehicles. Per NPR's interview with Tesla's CTO, they are applying for part of the bailout money as well to scale up production, to reduce costs through economies of scale.
THANK YOU!!!!!!
Exactly...if unionism dies -- good pay and benefits goes with it - for everyone.
Bob Cratchit was a white collar worker!
When the filibuster tactic begins, I expect to see my Senators reading from the public record the $$$$ that have gone to Shelbypork for "his" car industry.
Along with all the other pork Shelby has steered Alabama's way. And all the $$$$ that lobbyists PACs have put in Shelby's pocket.
Oh, and no pottie breaks, either. Gloves off time.
I bet he'll STFU when they start exposing him to sunlight...
besides possibly Olberman or Maddow?
But the congress critters and the senate had damned well better find some cojones soon!
I could lend them my Swiss Army tool.
The DINO's seem incapable of understanding how to lead, though they're good at holding hearings.
With Pelosi and Reid as head demo's, they'll cower under the threat from RePukes like Shelby.
I always thought a filibuster was a nut
Or a family themed restaurant and arcade like Dave & Busters.
Amyn! I'm so tired of the Dems rolling over at the first hint of "trouble" from the Reps. They're like the dog that's been hit so many times it recoils at the lifting of a hand.
No more cowering Reid. You've theoretically got a pair so it's time to use them. Force the Reps to go on record that they're against things that will help the middle-class - at least temporarily.
As much as I would love to see a real filibuster, the dems lack the cojones to actually do it. The dem leadership has about as much spine as a jelly fish. The republicans are going to block everything next year. They'll block health care, green energy reform, etc. Everything Obama tries to do will be blocked. I can almost guarantee it.
Again right now they do not have enough votes in the senate. That is why there is a compromise. President Howdy Duty won't pass a 35 billion bailout. So they are using a 25 billion bailout for moderationization of the companies that he will pass. This is going to be to hold them over until Obama comes in.
Is poisonous. But once exposed to the light he will shrivel and turn to a dark mold. He and his brethren have too much at stake in this. As someone said above, he is protecting his foreign automakers in his home state of Moronia.
Mine always seems to shrivel at the least opportune time.
Ah well...the joys of middle-age.
just ask Liddy Dole.
of the UAW for Reid to buck Sissy Shelby on this one.
republican
and
DLC
I'm still on the fence about the bailout. On one hand, millions of hardworking, blue-collar Americans are about to loose their jobs, on the other, the executive management, who is to blame for this mess, is about to keep theirs. What the Bush era blow hard executives are really trying to do with this bailout is save their own skins. If this was truly about saving the jobs of hardworking Americans, congress would demand that 60% of upper executive management be fired immediately. It's a big mess, and it's going to hurt either way... Either way... Our country gets exposed for the big f*cking joke that it is. Oh wait, that happened when the anti-government Wall Street pigs demanded we hand over 750 billion so they can continue to collect what little wealth our country has left.
But he's right. Handing billions to the big 3 will do nothing. They'll be back wanting more. Their problem is overproduction and lack of sales. You can't keep everyone hired and keep doing the same thing. Something has to change, and unfortunately that means massive layoffs. So why bother giving them billions if it won't be going to support the workers. Give it to the workers instead to help them retrain for new jobs, of even find new jobs.
My thoughts exactly Canuck. Another good point is that other auto manufacturers would have to swoop in to fill the demand-void left by these companies failures. Many of these people could be rehired by the surviving auto manufacturers within 2 years. Many of these people could go on to find new, more satisfying work now that their cushion has been pulled from under their butts. Our economy may be faltering, but it became too bloated! Just look what has happened to energy prices now that all that money has left Wall Street. Of course the littlest people like you and me will be hurt first, and the worst, but we're not going to fix it by sustaining it! We still have plenty of food in this country, and government food programs to make sure everybody gets some.
Bottom line is that our way of life is no longer sustainable, and there has to be a squeeze and loss before people start to work on changing it!
thought it through.
Change does not happen without loss. It's just simple logic. Our main goal should be making sure the change is positive. How much public transportation infrastructure could have been built with 750 billion dollars?
The banks that this snake voted to hand hundreds of billions of dollars to are not offering credit.
Ergo, cars are not selling.
Yes, giving the big three operating capital to survive is not great. IT would have been better if we just held BANKS accountable. instead we have class warfare here. It is fine to shell out billions to white collar crooks, however if a blue collar industry wants a loan - fire the workers instead.
I am not happy about it, but see the load as:
Neither occurred when we tossed money at AIG.
did not like the financial bailout. We only support this one because it's blue collar jobs on the line. The long view is that we will eventually have to ditch our autos! Our way of life will only be sustainable for another 50 years at best...
I would say it's even more complex than lack of sales. It's the whole trade inbalance. Why would someone in a foreign country want to buy an American car, built of the same plastic as the Barbie Dream Car, but less durable, and sucks down gas like Barney Gumble does the suds?
Great idea. Let's turn our manufacturing over to people who do not have our best interests at heart. You're a freaking genius!
It's contempt for organized labor and the average working citizen. that scumbucket exemplifies why repugs need to be removed from office. they simply want to destroy this country and its people.
If anyone has any doubts about republican intentions, they are pathologically blind.
Hey unions aren't for the common working man. They are about their specific union and it's interests. And that's it.
Go to a Carpenter's Union event. Harleys and McCain stickers.
Does the UAW support the UCFW. No.
UAW people shop at Walmart.
you can make any argument if you split enough hairs.
What does UCFW stand for?
at least he should update the misspelling.
---
That is not how I read it on their website.
I smell a rat in a squirrel's attire.
he would have more qualms about throwing other union brothers under the bus.
.
While I have a great deal of distrust and disrespect for republicans, I am not letting that fact get in the way of my concerns. We should not be giving a dime to the auto-industry (or any industry) until there is a plan to return them to profitability. On the other hand, I would support using the same money to help transition the auto-workers into something else. It doesn't matter what Shelby's motives are. Throwing money at something is not always the answer. I would think everyone here would know that now after the last 8 years.
{Ok , Look, Your moniker is your site address. That's blogwhoring or spamming. Which is a violation of the commenting policy. I suggest you read the commenting policy. SiteMonitor}
add $140Billion in pork, then it's OK!
eliminate a major union, then lower wages in Alabama.
OR....
Add more pork for republicans!
"eliminate a major union, then lower wages in Alabama."
It is more like eliminate an entire industry in Detroit, and then move all auto manufacturing to Mexico so they can pay 35 cents and hour.
That is what will happen!
That question was asked what were they going to do with the bailout money. Could the assure the taxpayers that they will keep the money in the states. All 3 companies said they would keep it here in the state.
That question was asked what were they going to do with the bailout money. Could the assure the taxpayers that they will keep the money in the states. All 3 companies said they would keep it here in the state.
republicans are cannibals?
.
We have to quit calling it a bailout. It is a bridge loan to get them through hard times, (recession) caused by oil corporations.
it's still a bailout.
That's what they want to do. Fuckers.
If they bring down the UAW, steel workers and boeing mechanics are next...
a few of us are missing the point - a return to 1920s sweatshop america.
Point well taken BaScOmBe. Hell even now Bush is passes laws on the books that is going to hurt americans in the work place.
the unions gave us the 40 hour work week, safety standards and so much else. I am surprised by the lack of union support I have seen from so-called progressives.
80 years ago they don't do shit now.
call enforcement.
but then again, it looks like you hate the american worker as much as shelby does. that's all I'm hearing.
But SOMETIMES, they seem to be a little greedy.
But you're right, without what they did in the past...our time at work would be much MUCH different...and not for the better.
I think the auto-execs need to be fired, but the unions need to be tweaked as well...and no...I don't have any idea how to go about fixing that mess...bigger brains than mine are required for that clusterfuck...
Since salaries have remained stangnant for 30+ years. Which if we adjust for inflation, it basically means that across the board salaries have actually been reduced. Which is even worse if we take into account that the American worker's productivity has outpaced inflation. That in the end means, that we are working far MORE for far LESS money.
Since most of those union workers can't make ends meet with a single salary.
And since the labor costs of a japanese vs. American auto made in the States is about 2%.
Can you please clarify where "greedy" comes into this equation.
Are we so seriously fucked up as a nation, that some of you consider wanting to make ends meet out of a single paycheck for an honest work... to be a "greedy" thing?
WTF?
Union leadership today is nothing like the leadership of years gone by. They don't give a damn about any of their workers. Most union leaders are in bed with their supposed employers now.
Trumka. He fights for the rights of workers every day.
It seems like the years of calling unions the problem has worked for those easily led by Fox Talk.
The problems are management and Republicans who want to kill unions and all the benefits that union membership has.
The union as an entity is a great idea that is much needed. The leadership of the unions is on par with corporate management however. As a union member, what benefits will they have when they don't have a job? Does the union provide them with lifelong assistance without them paying union dues? I'm not a member of a union, so I'm honestly asking. I know a unionized hydro worker in my province, has to keep paying his union dues even when laid off, or his chance of getting recalled is nil.
I always want a non-union member Canadian to lecture me on the realities of unionized labor in the USA.
Unions work diff there Tyler? I'd rather you assist me with answers, than sarcastically shun them. Does a laid off UAW worker get the same benefits as a working UAW member? If not, why? You know it's coming. They have to in order to survive. The only unions I know anything about up here, do nothing for their "members" if they are unemployed or very little.
I am not familiar with Trumka...I am not saying all (or any) unions are bad.
And I agree that the ones who want to kill unions and the benefits they fought so hard for are the major part of this particular problem.
But because someone doesn't blindly love all things union, doesn't make them a Fox watcher. This is far from a clear cut, black and white issue here...lots of shades of gray.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
That said...don't bust the unions...just the corrupt bastards running them. (as well as the incompetent auto execs)
Make examples of them.
A non union plant pays $25 an hour average, and the union plant gets $28. Tell me how that is killing the auto industry?
People, open up your ears and hear the whole story. How can American factories compete with foreign factories where health care is provided via the government, and here we have to include it into the pay check of our employees.
On top of building these dumb ass humvees and suv's for the fat cats in this country, the major three auto producers have abandoned the "cheap wagon"...the model T.
Needless to say, ALL these CEO's need to be canned. If they make a profit....give them a sensible bonus. If they don't...can them, or better yet, just CUT their salaries.
But don't put the blame on the auto worker who averages $28 an hour for an honest days' work. This is absurd!!
is not the same as blaming the workers. Nobody that I know of has stated that a unionized worker doesn't work as hard as a nonunion worker. The end of the day though, if the company is not selling product, they will lay off those workers, regardless how hard they work. You can't keep everyone's jobs if your business is on the verge of bankruptcy. And if your general store's sales are down, you don't stuff the cash register full hoping that will make a difference.
Well maybe you need to listen to Shelby and Corker both southern senators and both have foreign plants in their states. Come on you think they really want to help the big 3. They both have mention the unions during the questioning period. I watch on C-Span. The republican party has always wanted to destroy the unions. Starting way back when Reagan did a job on the airline union workers. Don't you believe any different.
That is the probable people are only getting part of the story. I don't blame the workers at all. These pricks that are complaining would be breaking doors to get a job for the big 3 during their hayday. People just don't get it. America needs to find a way for a single payer healthcare.
would make us more competitive.
Did you read something else besides what I had written?
I never joined the union but I have always supported them. I live in the south and tell people that they have alot to thank the unions for.
and what the fuck have those unions done to make this country better for working men and women...nothing. I am a New Labor supporter and organizer. Modern big Unions are nothing more than old school guilds that are about exclusion not inclusion.
All the unions that you mentioned, their members shop at Walmart, drive SuVs and are as green as a blacktop road.
It's all about their money and power.
and useth an extreme filter to block out facts.
Well friend I live in a rural area the only place to shop is supper wal mart. Give us a break. We just had a another store that was small mom and pop place. You could find all kinds of things made in america. Good old fashion items. People around here can't afford to buy in that store any longer and now the store is going out of business because the prices are to high. Don't you think people like us want to shop and buy american items. Around here if you are making $10.00 per hr you consider yourself pretty lucky. We shop where we can afford. I know family friends that work there and they may be the only ones right now to have a regular job. I am not going to bite the hand that feeds them. Believe me working for wal mart its the best place however in this state of our country its better than no place.
I wonder what unionized topless dancers think of busting unions?
the shirtwaist factory fire. This is what the Republicans have in mind for working folk.
why? because those countries pay for health care and have higher standards in regards to making economy cars
nuff said
death to the suv....give us universal health care
and give our country's industry the same opportunity industries get in other countries? the repugs won't support it if any non-millionaire benefits.
The big 3 are at a disadvantage because they are paying for pensions, healthcare. The gentlemen that is in charge of the unions said its about 10% of a car being built. The big 3 can't compete with the foreign car builders. First off Shelby wants to distroy the unions. I was listening to NPR and the guy was saying that in Shelby's state they gave the foreign government over $250,000,000 to help get them to Alabama. Gave them the land to build their company and tax breaks. These companies don't pay for their employees healthcare. This is not a level playing field. Our government can't allow the american car companies to go under like they did to the steel industry. This effects the middle class. Not everyone can go to college. We need jobs back home. If we all start taking care of our own bring business back to the US maybe it will help all of us.
If I am managing a restaurant and it is slow, I send people home. I don't stuff the register full of more money thinking that will bring customers in.
Public transportation usage is up 7% this year. Most people cannot afford to replace their cars. Why are you trying to alter reality? At least one of these companies has to dissappear.
Ford and Chrysler are the only somewhat innovative car manufactures of the big 3.
Besides...GM products suck.
although GM is making the volt. i think chrysler would be better, since its smaller, less economic impact on people, while still sending shock waves through industry
Overproduction and lack of sales IS the problem. If you produce a car every 2 minutes but only sell one every 5, you are going to fail and fail big time. The only option these companies have short of bankruptcy, is downsizing to match their sales. That means many job losses, bailout or no bailout.
Gas hog cars trucks and suvs that fewer and fewer people are buying.
Claiming to make their vehicles more efficient would make them less safe. Which is total BS.
But let's be clear...the American people are partly to blame for this as well...for being complacent, vacuous consumers, and not taking to ask the lawmakers who let the industry dictate policy.
There's PLENTY of blame to go around folks.
Everybody I talked to wanted to buy a Hummer. Oh the prestige of owning one. Total crap.
I told people who wanted one they could get one for free. Join the Army. They have plenty.
Absolute USELESS vehicle...can't take them off-road at all.
Saw a youtube clip awhile back, showed an H2 brand new, off the lot, on a dry creek bed...lasted about 30 minutes before it broke the front drive axle...
Fuckin garbage...just a more lame version of the tahoe.
A retro, high performance gas hog that serves no purpose.
the new Dodge's in that equation. MOPAR will sell!!! Base price in Canada is a measly 48 grand a pop.
Only 48 G's? Shit, I'll get two!
If I was prez...I'd make it compulsory for the auto companies to shift focus on producing inexpensive, reliable, and highly efficient modes of transport, or they could not do business in this country.
They...WE have the goddamn technology...we sent people to the effin moon for chrissakes!
This should be EASY!
easy doesn't make Mr. Global Corporation as much money, or so he thinks, so he is refusing to change.
This should be looked at as an opportunity, bail 'em out, but hold thier feet to the fire and force them to start producing the kinds of vehicles we truely need, economical, affordible, and environmentally safe cars that we should have started building 15 years ago.
25 years ago...but yeah...you're right, if the big 3 don't wanna play ball, I say they deserve their fates...then give the bailout money to some enterprizing startups in this country *as someone else already mentioned upthread* this country has enough brains to do what needs doin...if only we can fight through the corruption and red-tape to actually get down to it.
When the country was going through the energy crisis of the mid 70's, but please no more hairy backsides, the mental image is just way too much.
And my backside isn't all that hairy really...my taint however...well...that's a story for another day, lol!
Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse...
take a look at the state of higher education and vocational training...it sux, thanks to years of repug lack of caring and the worship of all things stupid
Like steam trains, the days of being an autoworker are almost gone. Now what? Give their bosses money to lay them off, or give the money to the workers for retraining in a different field? I know which one makes more sense, but most politicians don't seem to be getting this.
What ever happened with electing someone with a whiff of smarts to represent you in Congress?
Where is this lame ass sailor from? Sounds like up in the hills somewhere...."...billions, and billions, and billions....bridge to nowhere..." Wasn't that their party's corrupt senator and dumb ass governor that were responsible for the FIRST bridge to nowhere?
Gotta remember, Alabama is in the "Bible Belt". Strange that these supposed Christians believe that what is good for business is good with Christ. And, the American worker be damned!
No, seriously...a truly free market GOP should be saying that in a free market, businesses fail.
The only reason this bailout is happening is to save the huge number of jobs that would be lost if the big three shut down (which is why a bailout is good). But the Libertarian view is that if a business sells and inferior product at an inflated cost and people dont buy it, the business goes under because thats the way it goes.
I know you guys hate GOPs, very often for the sake of hating GOPs even when they do the right thing. But isnt this the step in the right direction that Ron Paul was talking about? Isnt this a sign that the GOP is moving away from the Newt Gingrich Republicanism?
One way or another the second he calls a filibuster, it'll get voted down. Do you seriously think that ANY politician wants to go to their constituents and explain why they allowed hundreds of thousands of jobs to be lost on principle?
Actually they're three forces at work against the bailout in Congress: Politicians, laregly republicans, who want to pretend their for the people and saving taxpayer's money, union-busters and one not talked about yet. They're scared to death of the reimposition of the regulatory oversight. If Congress ponies up the cash they want to have some say on how it's spent, they're not giving a carte blanche. Because of incidents of poisoning from Chinese products etc, e-coli etc the regulations might affect many industries. Presumably, even Union might face the regulations.
I for one welcome the change. The idea that the market-place is the solution of all our ills is a canard. The market-place is only concerned with the market-place, at least their portion of it. That would include the unions. However, the damage for the most part has been exporting our manufacturing base. It happened in the rust belt even earlier than the rest of the industries, about in the 70's. Then an "American" car had a motor from Germany, and electrical system from Japan, constructed in Mexico, but the company was incorporated in America. Then when Unions saw the paychecks dwindling they'd go to negotiate better contracts and job security only to be told sorry, there's not enough work, because of all the work being shipped out.
yes they are using this crisis as an opportunity to bash them. but the bail out, "bridge loan" is an unreasonable attempt to create sales in falling demand. The Japanese auto makers are going through it too. And the Japanese employ American workers.
This is a very expensive way to preserve jobs and the jobs preserved will be temporary at best. It will stagnate change and snuff innovation, preserving three more companies that are too big to fail.
What happens next? If I was Toyota, Honda, etc and I saw the Big 3 getting bailed out, I'd line up with my hat in hand to. Why not? Their sales are down too and in my area anyway, they employ as many if not more than the Big 3 do.
Union talk is a false distraction issue.
Consider all the banks that HAVE to fail. There is less economic activity, there must be fewer banks.
Well if you're actually Canadian, as your sobriquet seems to say, how many Japanese car corporations employ in your area isn't relevant to the discussion underway in the US Congress.
car manufacturers employing anyone in the US then? And I have a stake in this argument as well. The Big 3 want billions from Canada as well as the US.
How the Canadian government decides to handle that is up to them. Do you want the US Congress deciding Canadian legislation?
The same arguments are being tossed around in Canada by similar people. Whether you like to think of it or not, this is a global problem, not just a US problem. In your polite way you are basically telling me to mind my own business. This is my business. Whether it be the US Congress getting conned out of the cash, or Canada's parliament, or the UK's or whatever. What happens in one nation, is happening in all nations. These corporations are globally entrenched and you have to get rid of that American thought pattern of protectionism for your way of life. It doesn't exist anymore. It was artificially planted in your brains by the media.
But each unit has to make their own decisions on an issue they share. Groupthink usually results in Grouperror. Seperate decisions mean perhaps some decisions will fail, but not all.
Besides the transnationalism you speak of there's economic regionalism, like NAFTA and the EU. But such corporations as we have today aare considered to be Non-Governmental Organizations (NGO), corporations that have the power of nations, but aren't. NGO's isn't really relevant to this discussion, except that's what our Unions have to face.
I should follow up that I don't approve of corporations becoming so large that they become NGO's or simply can create too much damage when they go down. I want to see the industry rescued than broken up so in the future if they fail, they fail.
Funny thing, the auto industry is collectively bargaining Congress for the bail-out, while simultaneously trying to prevent Unions collectively bargaining them.
Well, he didn't filibuster but he voted Nay.
At least he's got that going for him.
And any others on either side of the aisle that voted no both times to the bail out.
The bail out is 8.4 trillion dollars folks. we also have at least one more 10 trillion dollar war on tap in the next couple years.
Show me the money!
Does anyone really think we can ever outgrow all that debt?
If they would report all of the facts, we wouldn't be having all of this opposition to the unions.
You have hit the nail on the head.
Shades of Dracula nailing a Turkish delegations turbans to their heads.
And these weren't sissy little nails like ours.
If you oppose the bail out, then you must hate unions.
it works. Similar to if you question a Dem, you are a Repub, and if you aren't American, you have no business discussing American politics. Sound right so far?
With what some on here say, you're automatically a GOP troll...*yes, I'm aware that I'm guilty of exactly that, but I recognized it, and have made attempts to correct it* :)
I didn't mean it to sound that way. I can understand the frustration and anger of some on here. It prob does seem like some A-Hole from another nation is sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. But what happens to the US, happens to me as well. I have just been officially laid off and am now I guess considered one of the dregs of society. The construction industry in my neck of the woods is officially in deep crapola.
I wasn't referring to you at all Canuck!
Believe me, I for one have NO problem with your input.
I'm officially laid off too, but still working for my dads company...just not gettin paid like I was...and makin too much to collect unemployment...rock and a fuckin hard place!
I agree. A very western trait of only seeing things in black and white, easily defined terms. eastern philosophy tends to see more variables in between and outside of the idea.
is organized labor, then you must hate unions.
I don't think the bail out is a solution, but I am not of the opinion that labor is to blame for this current situation.
If we're going to inject public money, I rather use it to create a fund to protect the unemployed workers that are going to be the result of the lowered demand... which the bailout will do nothing to address.
At least the money will go directly to those who need it: the workers and not to fuel a dying business that refuses to adapt.
1. Public transportation up
2. Better competitive environment for start up companies with alternative vehicles.
3. Less consumer debt as we ween ourselves from the vehicle.
4. Less highway construction
5. Reduction in accidents, fatalities.
But we need to preserve jobs, waa
is actually a good thing, since it lowers your cholesterol.
like charlton heston's 'pry form my dead hands', many 'murkins would rather learn french than be weened from their car-culture. not to say that it isn't a crucial direction to move, just that your logical thoughts will be met head-on by illogic. and, illogic will have more supporters and more money.
Since Unions largely haven't been relevant in 25 years there is another reason for why the banking industry was rescued, but the car industry is under debate. The car industry is a specific industry. Although banking is a specific industry too they are the credit flow. If the credit flow fails, it's not just the banking industries that fail, but all industries and homeowners who might want to borrow.
I still think this is an end-run to prevent a new governmental regulatory regime.
"credit" is part of the problem. as we financialized the economy, destroyed unions, and shipped our productive capabilities overseas we relied more and more on financial acrobatics to fuel the empire. and that went *pop*
the credit flow wouldn't be as crucial if the majority of people made a living wage.
and, imo, if the banking industry is 'too big to fail' it has to be taken apart and put back together. less mega-banks, less financial giants, less, less, less. and, with the god-awful wall street blackmail package we have less banks, that are bigger, and even more likely to bring down the entire economy when they fail. and they will fail.
The banking industry doesn't make anything, it only shuffles money around. If they don't loan you money because you don't make a decent wage,which is happening now by the way, our economy will collapse because not enough people will be able to buy goods from companies that make things.
You all must remember some of these bloggers are here to be mouth pieces for the republican party. Am sure the democratics go on their blogs to do the same. They are paid am sure.
Americans don't like buying goods from other Americans who produce products that pay them a decent wage. This just doesn't pertain to automobiles. Most of the goods that we buy now used to be made in this country. It's easier for most Americans to attack other Americans for making a decent wage than to try and get a decent wage from their employer. The Republican corporations have taken advantage of this. Hence all of the manufacturing jobs that used be here that paid good wages are gone. The U.S. is the only country that doesn't protect it's own manufacturing base. If you have a country that doesn't make anything then it's economy won't be around for long.
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