Rep. Nadler: We Do Not Put the Bill of Rights and Religious Freedom to a Vote
Rep. Jerrold Nadler appeared with his fellow New York Rep. Peter King to discuss plans to build the Islamic center and mosque near ground zero on CNN's State of the Union. Nadler made a few really great points during this segment which more Democrats need to be repeating. The people opposed to the center being built are conflating Al Qaida with Islam, no one is objecting to the mosque in the Pentagon, the people who want to build the center already have a mosque a few blocks away which no one objected to and we don't put the Bill of Rights and religious freedom up to a vote.
He also said he'd respect the Republicans' sincerity on the issue if they'd voted to take care of the first responders instead of playing politics with the health of those that rushed into those buildings on 9-11. I couldn't agree more.
NADLER: Well, I certainly appreciate the sensitivities of some of the families of 9/11. There are others who have expressed support for it. The press has concentrated on those who have opposed it. But frankly, ground zero is hallowed ground. Two blocks away, first of all, is not so hallowed ground. Second of all, we should not -- government officials should not be in a position of pressuring people where to build their mosque or their church or whatever.
Third of all, as much as I respect the sensitivities of people, there is a fundamental mistake behind it, and that is how can you -- and I can quote any number of some of the people who have commented on it, and what they are saying essentially is how can you put a mosque there when, after all, Muslims attacked us on 9/11, and this is ripping open a wound?
Well, the fallacy is that Al Qaida attacked us. Islam did not attack us. Islam, like Christianity, like Judaism, like other religions, has many different people, some of whom regard other adherents of the religion as heretics of one sort or another.
It is only insensitive if you regard Islam as the culprit, as opposed to as the culprit. We were not attacked by all Muslims. And there were Muslims who were killed there, there were Muslims who were killed there. There were Muslims who ran in as first responders to help. And we cannot take any position like that.
[...]
NADLER: I am not going to comment on that, because I don't think it's proper for any government official to pressure them in any way. And if I were to say that I think it's a good idea for them to do it, since I am a government official, that would be government pressuring them.
But it's up to them. If they want to do that, they're certainly free to do it.
But I want to point out several things. One, there is a mosque in the Pentagon, which is also hallowed ground. No one objects to that. Second, the people who want to build this facility, which is partially a mosque and partially a community center, have a mosque a few blocks away from there, which no one has objected to.
And thirdly, objecting to this mosque would be as objectionable if you wouldn't object to a church or a synagogue in the same place because that's blaming all Islam and you can't blame an entire religion.
And finally, I would take the sincerity of many of the Republican critics of this, Peter King very much accepted, much more -- I would understand the sincerity much more if they were supporting, as Peter is, but very few other Republicans are, the bill to give health care coverage to the 9/11 heroes and responders which all but 12 Republicans voted against in the House last week.
[...]
NADLER: Well, I did not say they were playing politics. I said I would respect their sincerity more.
But we do not put the Bill of Rights, we do not put the religious freedom to a vote. The reason we have a Bill of Rights is that you have your religious rights, your right to freedom of speech for the press et cetera, whether majorities like you or not, frankly.
I hope that people will understand that government has no role in this. Peter has now said this. Many of the people who have been saying this -- who have been on the other side have not been willing to say that. Peter has, I appreciate that.
As to whether the imam wants to have the mosque somewhere else, that's up to them, and government should not pressure them one way or the other.
Peter King: another glaring example of why hatred of republicans is NOT bigotry!
Nadler.
Some stuff you can't make up!
Beltway who are the clever- the short range thinkers but there are few intelligent thinkers! Rep. Nadler and President Obama are two..long range future big picture thinkers!
I think you have something.
Republicans as a whole show a huge deficit when it comes to thinking.
If it isn't a lack of native intelligence, then it certainly is a
lack of thinking skills.
They fail to acknowledge the repercussions of what they propose.
Yep. Short sightedness.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
.
Hitler and the Nazi Party scapegoated an entire religious sect based on unfounded fears that turned into hate based on the demagoguing by propagandists in the papers (read MEDIA) and the Fourth Reich.
HOW IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT?
FEAR the Hispanics (the NEW Gypsy)
FEAR the Muslims (the NEW Jew)
FEAR the Gays (well, Duh!)
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
KILL the abortionists! (first ones to go)
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Its every other xenophobic idiot that lives out in bumfuck USA that is making a big deal out of this.
We New Yorkers are used to seeing Arabs, Chinese, Spanish, Indian, Whites, Blacks, every race on this planet. We are a diverse city. More diverse then any other city on the planet. Thats why you dont have many New Yorkers against this building. Its the idiots who live far from us making a big deal out of this.
The media should also hold Peter King accountable. That asshole wanted to put muslims on a seperate line at airports. No one in the media will bring that up. Peter King lives out in long island. He doesnt stand for what we in NY stand for. He should not be our voice.
This building isnt a big deal. Its the media who want ratings, so they look for a story that could cause controversy and look they found one. Higher ratings = more money in commercials.
Peter King does not have an original thought in his head. He is kneejerk, lockstep GOP-er lemming who will follow his party over the cliff of irrational thought. He is a hater. I do not like him.
Nadler is right. Islam did not attack us. Al-Queda (specifically Wahaabiism) attacked us because we put a U.S. airbase on Saudi Arabian soil.
Al-Queda is not part of the Islamic religion.
Neither is Wahaabiism.
Neither is Wahaabiism.
Not true. Also simplistic. Wahaabism has the same relationship to Islam that the Puritans had to Christianity (although the Puritans didn't have homemade bombs). They espouse the same kind of extremist views, but they are most definitely a part of Islam. They're just not ALL of Islam, not even generally representative of it.
Now Al-Qaida is more a paramilitary concern than a religious one. THEIR connection to Islam is tenuous, seeing as it exists more as an excuse to commit mayhem and crush their fellow Muslims than anything in the least spiritual.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
The government has no business sticking their nose into this.
King is an idiot like almost every republican I have ever met.
STFU GOP! If you don't have anything useful to do just shut up!
can all collectively GO TO HELL. Or The version that only they believe in. They demagogue this issue for no other reason than to gain politically from it. If they wish to be AFRAID OF EVERYTHING then why don't they just board themselves up inside their homes and leave the rest of SANE humanity to live our lives unfettered by these 'scared children'. I, for one, am sick to high heaven of their pandering, obfuscation, lying, and finger-pointing. It is these sorts of scared, weak, whining, overly sanctimonious, and yes dangerous humans who are the REAL causes of most of the world's sorrows. And they never take ANY responsibility for anything thev've done, someone else always has to clean it up and gets blamed too. Just once, it'd be nice to see the news knock one of these wretches down a peg or two. They completely deserve it.
can all collectively GO TO HELL.
Oh they will, believe me. They've got one HUGE surprise waiting for them on the other side of the veil.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
"But we do not put the Bill of Rights, we do not put the religious freedom to a vote."
“One's right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.” West Virginia State Board of Education v Barnette, 319 US 624 (1943).
The correct procedure to block the building of the mosque is to amend the constitution from:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
To:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, unless that religion is Islam; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I suppose that there are other ways, such as amending the 14th Amendment so that the Bill of Rights wouldn't be applicable to the State, in cases where such application would apply the 1st amendment to an Islamic facility or organization.
The procedure is a 2/3rd vote by Congress, followed by ratification by 3/4ths of the States. Absent that process, there is nothing to block the building of an Islamic mosque, if for example, a Christian fellowship center at the same location would be permitted.
The real issue here are opponents to the Constitution using an emotional issue in order to get the public to not support the constitution. Let's make the country a country of men instead of law, even more than it already is.
...that ANY christian church be built ANYWHERE on Earth...after the long bloody history of the christians murdering indigenous people in every corner of the globe. Have they no respect for the victims of their endless atrocities?
"Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?" - General Jack D. Ripper
Christianity- or Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism or any other post-animist religion- isn't a cause of murder, but a tool developed by what Daniel Quinn refers to as Mother Culture- revolutionary, late paleolithic agriculture!- used to grab land for the purposes building the population of it's adherents in order to sustain itself.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Christian terrorists have murdered doctors therefore it is an affront to doctors to build churches near hospitals, clinics, and other medical centers.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Has Rep. King been acting like this for a long time or is this 'JOHN CORNYN LIP LOCK" something recent?? I've never heard anyone read - word for word and comma for comma - a set of talking points that obviously came straight over the Cheneeey-Fax this morning for him to read any place he was in public..
These resluglican clowns have again proven they have no plan covering any issue now days but if they had their way (that they want back), we would be in WW3 already with the middle-east (Nuclear); our economy would have collapsed and unemployment right now would be 40-50%; our manufacturing base would be gone; we would have used our entire Navy to deport 15-20 MILLION PEOPLE to who knows where; and with the Swag-Hag in charge of the gulf oil spill the whole gulf would be on fire at this moment..
Wonderful thoughts....
As Cornyn said:
Well the mayor of New York said they have every right to put the thing wherever they want. That is as local as it gets. And I don't really care what the New York senator's opinions are.
The main thing here is that it is a constitutional right to be able to do this. And we know that the right wing idiots really really care about the constitution, don't we. They keep reminding us of that daily as if they are the only ones who care.
"So you would strenuously object, to the point of protesting and harrassment, the idea of building a Christian church next door to the Oklahoma City Federal Building?"
If they said no, I'd ask, "Why not? After all, Timothy McVeigh was a fundamentalist Christian, so that means all Christians are enemies of America and don't deserve to build their churches wherever they want, RIGHT?"
But they would just ignore or dodge the question, as they do whenever SANE arguments are proposed.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
I think the Christians should end their pickets at the funerals of deceased soldiers.
That's not Christians. That's one tiny little group of people led by a stupid bigot. By saying that, you're espousing the same kind of thought that these GOP morons are when they say all Muslims are violent terrorists. Please do not fall into the same hateful thinking trap.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
That was the point. Painting with a broad brush an entire religion because the acts of a small sect.
It *is* exactly that same approach that the GOP is using on Islam.
...we just don't build anymore religious buildings.
They are all mostly money cults now anyway.
a veneer of compassion is all that separates them from organized crime
syndicates, and that is fading away now.
Now they feel the need to drop that premise and start a mob war.
The other franchises are taking away their business, and they want to hit back.
Nice huh?
This King animal is a little different. He uses religion to fuel his
Republican crime syndicate.
Just imagine where we could be today without constant Republican erosion of religion and American principles.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Though I out grew my invisible friends from childhood, I fully support this community center/mosque being built, as prescribed by our constitution. Though I'd preferred Patterson not suggest a compromise with state own land as an alternative.
I want my country back... :P
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Lookit the kisser on King-he looks like the poster boy for chronic constipation.Of course he doesn't really suffer from that problem.
He's just an asshole.
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
I say we outlaw baptists
I hate tuna salad and lime jello with the little grape in it...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Baptists make children cry.
Children know things adults suppress.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SszHoW5ogNs
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The saddest part is republic idiots dominate the airwaves we all own and the newpapers and media which most rational people don't own and can't own. All we hear and see is republic non-answers, republic denials and republic lies.
Where I live the local newspaper is continually refered to as liberal when it is actually the opposite. republics control the county and city of Punta Gorda with no Democratic representation at all. republics have destroyed my county and have and continue to hold all the power. I have never voted for even one of the worthless idiots and lose every time. It's sad and wierd considering so many people out of work and opposed the the local government. These same individuals do not vote and wonder why they are being screwed, they believe their vote doesn't matter when it so obviously does. Newspapers,television, local radio have convinced the very people politicians are supposed to represent that their vote is not needed, expected or required because the same cast of fools that has led to this disaster somehow know they can change it. The actual truth is they not only won't change it but don't want to.
PEACE
I can't type anymore it's too depressing.
The love you take is equal to the love you make. John Lennon Paul Mc Cartney
i live in a city of 1 million. the entire city council is owned by a baptist mega-church. one of these council members made headlines recently, at a council meeting, by asking a muslim "to pray to your god so we can all laugh at you". this baptist church owns downtown parking lots,office buildings, shopping centers and the motherfuckers pay no tax on any of this property. fuck all religions. they are all equally vile and evil and need to be taxed until they are "so small that they can be drowned in a bathtub" and flushed down the sewer.
Part of me is upset that they're making this an election issue, but part of me thinks that the idiots who will fall for this as an election issue are tea party nuts who were gonna vote for a brain dead clone of themselves anyway, the rest of the country will just be sickened by their blatant shredding of the constitution.
How about we outlaw peter king's religion
roman catholicism
For crimes against humanity
Diddling little boys
And a little something that lasted 500 years called
The Inquisition.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
If you want to do something that most people already agree with, you don't need a Bill of Rights to protect you. So maybe, just maybe, there's another reason we have one.
Nah, couldn't be.
They're great for rolling super doobies...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ozk7fnKilU
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
He was being interviewed by Anderson Cooper, and he said,
"The glory of American democracy is that it is not just about what the majority thinks is right. The Bill of Rights is an anti-democratic document. The Bill of Rights says, "No matter what the majority thinks, these rights are sacrosanct."
what is the aggregate Republican opinion on NYC?
Oh, that's right, they see NYC much the same way as those who were responsible for the WTC attacks view the US as a whole.
I was thinking the same thing. NYC isn't a part of "real america" unless terrorists attack it or Muslims want to build a community center there. Conservatives talk so much shit about NYC until they can use it as some kind of wedge issue. It's sad and pathetic.
As for the GOP with respect to what the Congressman said...
"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." - John 1:5
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Somehow king does not strike me as being one to meekly accept the eucharist from his priest
But rather smash him in the face and grab it from him.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The reality is there is a *perception* that Al-Qaida, as a twisted terrorist group, performed a terrorist act in the name of Islam. I know that it wasn't, but it is an easy association to make. We know the Twin Towers were picked for their symbolic value. A mosque at the site has a symbolic value as well.
There are no laws or rules to disallow the mosque, however, personally, I think the idea of a mosque there is quite insensitive on the part of the people who wish to build it.
I also feel the reverse is true. If it were a Muslim place of gathering or worship that had been leveled and Christians or Jews made a point of wanting to build in the immediate area, I would most definitely have a problem with that.
Respecting others is the name of the game - not we don't want muslims in our backyard. I get that many are playing the bigotry card, but they can be right, even if for the wrong reasons.
First of all the mosque is not AT ground zero. It's a couple of blocks away. Second by using your logic we should eliminate any church that is near a planned parenthood that has been bombed, shot at, or otherwise harmed. We should also get rid of any Catholic church that is located near a daycare center or elementary school. The truth is this isn't about terrorism. This is about xenophobia. The mosque is being built by a MODERATE muslim group not some crazy sect of Islam hell bent on destroying America. The two have NOTHING to do with each other.
Should the Klan be allowed to build a social center near the site of black churches that were bombed?
Yeah, I know, but I was sitting there with my wife, and we were watching it, and whaddyagonnado?
Anyway, it was interesting to me that only King's comments were played. Nadler's were not presented. The anchor (Kate somebody) says to Chuck Toad, "What WAS the president thinking?"
Toad: "Well, Kate. He really stepped in it this time."
Threw my shoe, but missed the screen when the TV ducked.
Candy: "Before we get off on the rails on that..." Nadlers' bringing up of the sincerity of repubs against the mosque and against the first responders bill.
God Forbid, Candy that we hold 2 thoughts in our heads at one time.
And then, to be sure we don't take advantage of two congresspersons being here, we better go quickly to the poll, so we can focus on the horserace instead of the details.
CNN has hit bottom.
"Eisenhower spoke of himself as "one of the most deeply religious men I know." Though not attached to any "sect or organization" he often expresses the conviction that democracy cannot exist without religion."
Abraham Vereide arrived in Washington, D.C., on September 6, 1941, as the guest of a man referred to only as “Colonel Brindley.” How sweet it must be, being Tax-exempt... Abraham Vereide was a Norwegian-born Methodist clergyman and founder of Goodwill Industries. The aforementioned Colonel Brindley coincidentally was a "Colonel" in the The Salvation Army. Another kind act performed by a tax exempt organization...
The goal is Jesus plus nothing, the results are before your eyes. This book that Dr. Frank Schaeffer, the celebrated author of Crazy for God, wrote: “I am a religious person, a churchgoer. Nevertheless, this one-of-a-kind book [The God Virus] is a vital reminder of the fact that we think objectively at what religion does to us.” --helped me to understand whats going on... I'd like to get Frank's opinion on "The Family".
Study the symptoms not the virus...
PS. "A man of simple faith, who is sincere in his religious doctrine," said the National Presbyterian's minister, the Rev. Edward L. R. Elson, of his new communicant. Eisenhower, he added, had at last "staked down his faith—this is his home church now."...
...Edward L.R. Elson was appointed Senate chaplain on January 9, 1969.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Willfully ignorant bigotry. They can couch their bigotry in any terms they choose, it's still striaght up bigotry. "Sensitivity"? That's really rich.
The GOP. There's a home for every type of diseased mind and twisted soul within the shelter of their tent, and pretty much no room left for anything else.
Our Constitutional rights, which are really Human rights, are not subject to community approval or vetting. The bigots and racists need to crawl back into the woodwork, and Obama needs to grow a spine.
At the very end of the clip, Peter King is all too happy to point out that "President Obama supports a mosque at ground zero." There it is -- that is the point of all of this. They know they have no legal right to oppose this, they just wanted the president to chime in and BAM! they got their newest bumper sticker slogan. Here it is:
"President Obama supports the mosque at Ground Zero"
Get it? Now ask yourself, how many myopic Rethuglicans are going to be moved to vote in the mideterm election when all they hear is:
"President Obama supports the mosque at Ground Zero"
And the Democratic response of "government officials should not pressure the Immam one way or another," while correct, is so freaking milquetoast that it will only encourage the conservatives to push this meme even harder.
Beware of anyone promising a future full of yesterdays.
...explaining why it is particularly hypocritical of the GOP to protest the mosque: "And finally, I would take the sincerity of many of the Republican critics of this, Peter King very much accepted, much more -- I would understand the sincerity much more if they were supporting, as Peter is, but very few other Republicans are, the bill to give health care coverage to the 9/11 heroes and responders which all but 12 Republicans voted against in the House last week." Hooray!
"Respect for the rights of others is peace." --Benito Juarez
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