Rep. Alan Grayson: We've Already Paid Enough in Blood and Money for Iraq and Afghanistan
Ed Schultz talks to Rep. Alan Grayson about the proposed war surtax to pay for Afghanistan. Grayson feels we've paid too much already for both Iraq and Afghanistan and that it's time to bring the troops home.
Schultz: $234 billion, that’s the price tag; that’s that eight years of war in Afghanistan has already cost this country. Now we’re sending 30,000 more troops—a nearly fifty percent increase. We have no idea how long they’re going to be there or how long it’s going to take to “finish the job”. The idea of a war surtax is gaining momentum in both houses of the Congress and with both parties for that matter. Joining me now Florida Congressman Alan Grayson. Congressman good to have you with us tonight. Should we make sure that we can pay for this next military increase in Afghanistan and how would you propose doing it?
Grayson: I think we’ve paid enough. We’ve paid $3 trillion already for the war in Iraq—that’s $10,000 for every man, woman and child in this country. For my family, my wife, myself, my five children that’s $70,000. Enough is enough—we’ve paid enough for Iraq in both money and blood. We’ve paid enough for Afghanistan. Now it’s time to come home.
Schultz: So, we’re going to be there and the President’s going to make the announcement. We’re going there, so what do we do for the finances of this? Do we increase taxes and where do we go to do that?
Grayson: No, people are suffering too much already, but what we need to do is change the President’s mind and if necessary to vote to end the war. I think we need to do that. This is a war that really ended a long time ago and not enough people have noticed that. After the two months following Sept. 11th we’d overthrown the Taliban government and after three months we had expelled al Qaeda from Afghanistan into Pakistan. And Gen. Petraeus said back in May that al Qaeda no longer even operates in Afghanistan. So why are we there?
We are not safer because we sent 100,000 of our young men and women across the ocean to a place 8000 miles away. You know the Constitution doesn’t even contemplate a standing Army, much less an Army standing in Kabul.
Schultz: Congressman, do you think President Obama is leaving his base?
Grayson: Yes. I think that he needs to speak out as the moral person that he is in favor of peace. We have people now who are in first grade and second grade who have never known an America their entire lives that was an America at peace and I think it’s time we thought about that; thought about what we’re like as human beings and as a country. We need to pursue peace.
Schultz: What do you think the progressive community should do if anything at this point?
Grayson: What we always do—organize, organize and organize. Tell the President, tell our elected representatives and hope that we can build bridges among enough Congressmen so that we can tell the President honestly this war should be over. And I’ve been following the polls and I’ve seen that in the case of Afghanistan the polls are shifting. In the past year more than 20% of Americans have changed their mind about the war in Afghanistan and they conclude we shouldn’t be there. And that’s what we need to do. We need to change people’s minds.
Schultz: If the vote comes up for a surtax, would you support it?
Grayson: No.
Schultz: You would not support it to be fiscally responsible, because that would be supporting the war then?
Grayson: The fiscally responsible thing is to end the wars that have cost us $3 trillion and come close to wrecking the economy. We don’t improve the economy by increasing the taxes to pay for this war. We improve the economy by bringing those soldiers home. That’s how we improve the economy.
Schultz: Do you think Barack Obama would have been elected President of the United States if he had gone around campaigning saying we’re going to put another 30,000 troops in Afghanistan?
Grayson: I haven’t lost hope. I think that if enough people change their minds about the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, in the end President Obama will be one of them.
but they have taken him from healthcare where he fearlessly spearheaded reform.
Some stuff you can't make up!
opportunities in Afghanistan at some point. They'll need tract burbs plopped down everywhere, malls and freeways, parking lots, Big Macs, TeeVee stations, all the great American symbols of progress.
Maybe in other ME countries...but not Afghanistan.
The Worlds Largest Adult Disney Land!!!!!
for Disney to invest....
They're a "ZERO TOLERANCE" corporation.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
in Iran back in the 1950's - don't think that worked out too well.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
The troops leave, the oil industry leaves. You don't want to know what happens next. Last year's $147 oil price happened because Hillary was the presumptive Democratic nominee, and she promised to quickly pull the troops. We gotta get the oil. Shame, isn't it? We will NEVER fully leave these two countries.
Are we surprised? We've almost never left a country we've invaded...
The price of oil was bid up by hedge funders, speculators, and investment houses,(salomon bros, goldman sachs, jp morgan, lehmen bros)
They did it to recapitolize their books. These institutions KNEW they were leveredged to the hilt. Commodities are a cash cow.
The banks knew they were on borrowed time as it were. Sept 30th was the date the Basel II treaty was to become effective. That was an international treaty that mandated, among other things, transparency about liquidity, capitol reserves, and solvency.
On Grayson, he's getting better at these talking head gigs and is laying off the schtick. He won't take bait to throw newsmaking bombs. He keeps his cool and makes his points
(which is GUARANTEED to be a "demonstrator free zone"), Obama will continue to insist that we will be outta there before the next president takes office. He is promising not to "hand off this war to the next president".
Hmmm....I wonder if that means before 2012 or 2016???
Oh, whatever. Another two years or another six. It's only lives lost and money we don't have spent, right?
Blood for Oil. Kinda has a snappy ring to it, huh?
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
it was a speculation bubble and it was a threat to the possibility of a Dem president. don't bee fooled by the presence of Hil on the ballot. they did the same thing when it was only mcStain and obama.
________________
common sense matters as much as truth
Maurice Clemmons shot and killed earlier this morning.
The suspect apparently killed 4 police officers in a Lakewood Wa. coffee house.
... breathes a sigh of relief. Plenty of time for this to fall down the memory hole before the campaign season (which, honestly, is like Christmas shopping - it never stops).
breathe easy juuust yet.
Huckabee is partly to blame for this tragedy.
... the media and the general public.
The crowd at Crooks & Liars has a longer attention span, in general.
So do people who run political campaigns.... of both parties.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
declares that Huckabee's political career is over.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
He's a friggin cop?
WTF?
Ok...now to the topic at hand...
Graysons right...we should get out now.
We have so much goin wrong in OUR country that needs attention and money.
... is an out-of-work actor and another famewhore made possible by the fine minds filling our empty little heads with reality television.
you're 100% right.
Chuck Norris you can attack. Okie's impersonating Texans get my goat almost as much as Texans playing for Oklahoma (unless they are playing for Oklahoma State against Oklahoma's Texans).
But not Steven Segal. What is it about the sound of leg and arm bones popping when slammed into jewelry display cases that you boys don't like?
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Nor is waiting for Karzai to get his collective shit together. He's on his second five-year term, and there are questions about corruption.
So 30,000 troops will make him behave? Clean up his act?
Are we really to believe that the only difference between ourselves and the Russians are 30,000 men and a smidge more political will?
George Carlin was right, it is a waste of time. I think I'm done, it makes no difference.
to the fascists?
what is good for the goose ain't right for the gander?
same sex relations among fowl.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
You see no difference between Obama and McCain? You see no difference between Biden and Palin? If you don't, maybe you are right and you shouldn't vote next time.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
... the players more concerned with their million-dollar endorsements, the referees corrupt (yeah, I'm looking at YOU, Scalia), but you still gotta vote.
The system will remain corrupt as long as winning office is predicated on having millions of dollars to campaign.
Alan Grayson should run for President. He has more common sense and courage than any politician I have seen in a long while!! Spread the word!!!
I hope he doesn't. He's needed in Congress right now.
Because Congress is taking such huge strides right now.
If the President pulled out all the troops from Afghanistan right now and there was another attack on the US, Cheney and the likes of him would say it was because Obama was weak. There would be talk of impeachment before the dust settled. There are no good answers to this mess that was left to him. He never campaigned on bringing the troops out of there and in fact he said he would ramp up the number of troops. I have no idea what the plan is but I hope to hell it works and the troops can begin coming home before the end of next year.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
- Nothing changes, it's Obama's fault. He didn't send enough.
- Things get worse, it's Obama's fault. He took too long and didn't send enough troops.
- Things get better, it's Obama's fault. He took too long, should have sent more troops, is sending the wrong message to the terrorists, isn't representing America properly, and is a black fella in the White House, dadgummit.
mows down a fire hydrant and gets away with it. Welcome to Obama's America.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Plus a perfectly good golf club is dinged forever by the likes of a window of a big assed car. Oh the misery! I will find a way to blame all this on Obama if you give me a few minutes, er hours, er days.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Yes, you have the headlines already. No matter the outcome, it's Obama's fault and there will be no credit no matter what.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Obama did pull the troops out of Afghanistan or Iraq, Cheney would Ensure some sort of false-flag terr'ist attack happened. He's done it before....
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
... it doesn't matter if it's false-flag or real, Obama will get blamed for it.
Hell, the nutjobosphere will practically blame Obama for a cloudy day.
it will be a sign from god that Obama is really a closet-muslim terrrrist-pallin' AmurKKKa hater.
________________
common sense matters as much as truth
literalism here.
"You know the Constitution doesn’t even contemplate a standing Army, much less an Army standing in Kabul." Maybe so Congressman, but it does contemplate slavery and other stuff not so wonderful.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
If we've learned anything about Grayson it's that he loves to throw the same hyperbole and waxing about the constitution right back at the "conservatives." They think they have a monopoly on patriotic glee and the founding fathers. Somehow they've convinced a small majority that the founding fathers were conservatives for Christ sake!
Hasn't anyone in the White House or the Pentagon every read "The Art of War"??? It's an open and shut case. You are bound to lose. A war has to be short. What takes too long creates doubt, brings the morale down, loss of focus on the reason to why one is there as drains the economy. Sun Tzu made that very clear.
"A black belt is not what you were, it is what you become"
"... if victory is long in coming, the men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be dampened. If the campaign is protracted, the resources of the state will not be equal to the strain. Never forget: When your weapons are dulled, your ardor dampened, your strength exhausted, and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue."
Quoted in my blog entry for Nov. 19, 2005
It's an occupation that will last until there is regime change (in the US).
... still valid. The principles apply whether you're in the boardroom or on the campaign trail.
And if you look for a copy, see if you can find the one with a preface by James Clavell.
Just having problems relating it to modern warfare in which profit, not victory, is the goal.
One might surmise that the war profiteers (Blackwater, KBR, et al) have learned Sun Tzu's lessons all too well.
Kud Tzu, who has invaded the south and occupied it longer than Sherman.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Ten months before Bush became president, he held a meeting with the Taliban in Crawford to cut a deal allowing the USA to build a natural gas pipeline across Afghanistan. The Taliban refused, and Bush told them to comply or he'd kick their ass. They didn't comply, and Bush used bin Laden's hosting as the excuse to kick their ass. We're still there, and the tactical benefit of the pipeline still exists...as does our attempt to get it built.
Uhh do you actually have any proof of this? As believable a wild conspiracy theory as it is, I'd like to see some proof.
i've heard this story/comments before but no real evidence but that certainly doesn't mean it didn't happen. i heard/read the late ken lay of enron was behind the pipeline idea.
... particularly from people who have never bothered to check out a map to locate the whereabouts of Afghanistan. Apparently, all this was so that the powers that be could take a detour through some of earth's most rugged terrain with their pipeline or something...
this particular meeting w/Bush and the Taliban....but the only reason we invaded the ME in the first place was to secure oil/gas resources. You can read all about it in the PNAC doc "Defense Strategy for the 21st Century" - and the reason we had the 'New Pearl Harbor' to get American citizens to support this adventure.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
This should be the new line of attack against the Republicans in congress. They want more unpaid for war, more troops, but don't want any tax increases for that either. Health care for poor people with hopefully the side effect of lowering premiums for everyone, fuck no! More unpaid wars, fuck yeah! What a party, what a country!
sure this is Obama's war now but i can't easily forget that BUSH was so preoccupied with iraq that the taliban has strengthened in afghanistan/pakistan. personally, i feel these war(s)/occupations are about resources......and were prolonged on purpose by the neoCONs.
When bush said Osama didn't matter any more, that was the day the troops should have started coming out of that country.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
should have been filled ipso facto.
Yeah, that too!
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Site monitors, is someone working on this site today? I just reloaded the front page and it looked kind of funky and parts were missing on the header.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Why this page look so HTMLish?
LimpBalls
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it's the ONLY possible explanation, lol!
It might be the most effective way of ending these stupid wars, short of a military draft.
Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.
... will NEVER pay. Kind of like the TARP funds. $700 Billion+ levied against taxpayers, and the banks respond by jacking up interest rates and awarding themselves million-dollar bonuses.
That's a big middle finger, 50 stories tall, in glowing neon.
It's acting all...weird...
And yes, I CAN be more vague.
it seems, as many (if not more) troops than the Soviet Union had there in the 80's,... the Soviet Union ... you know? ... that thing that doesn't exist any more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Af...
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
Don't forget guts
And crap
And other excreta.
I understand when people are killed
They often crap and orgasm at the same time.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
What Ed Shultz, Alan Grayson, Keith Olbermann, and all the rest of the radical peacenik liberal progressive rabble-rousers fail to understand is that the fight Obama has adopted against the Taliban is not the real issue here. Corporate Profits and American Exceptionalism / Imperialism is THE ISSUE. After all, President Barack Hussein Obama is a Neo-Liberal (Corporatist) Democrat - certainly NOT a liberal progressive.
We are in (have always been in) Afghanistan to establish a USA-centric pro-Corporatist puppet government in order to build a (magically munificent) OIL & N.GAS pipeline from the Caspian Basin to the ocean. You cannot expect American OIL & ENERGY SERVICES companies to forgo the opportunity to exploit $11 Trillion (2006 est.) USD worth of energy resources do you? (Please think of the poor, barely scraping by Corporations, for crying out loud.) As Dubya once said, "... the USA isn't getting into the business of nation-building ...". Don'cha know that Ken Lay and ENRON sacrificed themselves for the rest of America's Petroleum Industrial Complex?
Besides, the business of war, and our Military Industrial Complex needs a perpetual conflict in order to remain relevant (and in the black) after the end of the Cold War. War can, and must be, a growth industry - think of all the destitute Defense Contractors - how would They ever get by without WAR? The USA certainly doesn't need to think about rebuilding infrastructure here at home, let alone a National Defense Imperative like Universal Healthcare - not when there are Private (Corporate) Profits to be made overseas at Public (Socialized) Risk.
Anyway, the Permanent Military Bases in Iraq need to be augmented with Permanent Military Bases in Afghanistan, if only to further our 30+ year conflict with IRAN over their Denial of the USA's Eminent Domain Prerogative over their (OUR) natural resources under their soil. Never mind that IRAN's population of 75 Million are waiting to greet the American Liberators with rose petals at our feet and flowers in the barrels of our guns, don'cha know?
This is all a matter of God's will - America's Manifest Destiny. Either we win this struggle outright (Double-Plus-Good), or else we unleash a world-wide conflagration of war, and the End Times. See, it's a win-win-win situation. What could possibly go wrong?
/snark
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
the Iranians will invade the US to fightt a war with Mexico - or Canada
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
OR BOTH!
We need to fight them over there, so that we don't have to fight them over here.
The sky is falling! Beware the imminent nuclear mushroom clouds over Chattanooga, Cleveland and Chicago.
It's deja vu, all over again. So, who really is in charge in this country, because this sure seems to be a song that I've heard before, from an apparently not-so-very different administration? Okay, rhetorical question. Never mind.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
No more president hopey-changey, all no change and no hope! A garden hose would be more progressive.
Let's hear it for teh Preznot, Petranus and McCrackhead! More meat for the grinder! Hooray!
brittle specks of skylight
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