Real Time: Bill Moyers on Health Care as a Human Right
By Heather Saturday Aug 29, 2009 8:30amYou can view this video right here by getting the latest version of Flash Player!
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Bill Moyers visited the set of Real Time, and had an honest discussion about why we're going to be lucky to see any real reform on health care with all of the money being thrown at both the Republican and Democratic parties from the insurance industries, big pharma, and Wall Street. Bill is exactly right here, and this needs to be looked at as a moral issue, and not what's in the interest of corporate profits or a good business model.
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Why are the right always against Rights?
I mean mebbe they should look at it this way:
The next time you shoot your best friend's face off
You might want to see a doctor
If you can sober him up first.
They are all for their right to screw us out of our rights.
If you actually WORK your entire life, you are not entitled to a SS check, because that's "socialism."
If your a useless trustfunder like W, who never worked a day in his life, all you have to do is put a shingle outside your door that says incorporated, and you can rape the taxpayers for trillions, and then force the payers to bail you out for their your right to theivery.
But since they have a corporation title it's not "socialism," no no.....why it's "liquidity enhancement or capitol diversification" or some other BS Orwellean term they come up with to fool the chumps.
Rights are only for the richest righties.
You can make $100,000 an hour to deny people life saving care.
They bad mouth the term "Liberal" when it's them that should be ashamed. Conservatives throughout history have been cowards and selfish individuals who have tried to block every advancement.
Read the US Constitution. You can see it was written by Liberals, people of courage and insight who were looking forward, something conservatives have show themselves to be incapable of.
The whole thing is based on Gov serving the people needs for protection and the "general welfare".
Lucky?
If there is any reform, it will be to shaft the people, and enrich the corporate fascist, billionaire Wall Street welfare queens, at the people's expense.
And the morons will be out in the streets cheering and shooting off their guns, because Glenn Beck and Rush will tell them they stopped the nazi Obama from bringing fascism to America, which is ironic, because the bill will represent the very definition of fascism.
But when your followers are so stupid and lazy and utterly ignorant that they don't even know the definitions of the words you control them with, it's a pretty good bet you can fool them anytime, anyplace.
a person of living and active conscience speak.
in our government who are thoughtful and can see the big picture.
Also it is a sad statement on the state of Tv news when a thoughtful discussion of the issues has to come from a comedy show on HBO.
"GREED."
When was the last time you asked your rep an insightful question in a public forum and not let them dance around it?
We get the Gov "we" elect. There's no one to blame but us.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood;
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty;
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person;
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms;
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment and all the rest of this hippie bleeding heart folderol. Why, to adopt these practices would ruin the American Way of Life!
That's the Communist Manifest from the UN. We don't even pay dues there.
Greenwald article on Moyers here.
Thanks for the link to Greenwald's article.
Bill Moyers is absolutely correct. Both parties are controlled by big money and a small group of very rich people who have no interest in doing what's morally right for all Americans.
Money and greed have corrupted everyone.
How I wish Obama would listen to Moyers and Greenwald. I just hope it's not too late.
Screw separation of Church and State. What we really need is separation of Business and State
And make government fearful of public. Business fearful of government. The only thing Joe six pack wants is a twelve pack.
would listen to Moyers, Greenwald AND the voters. He needs to put single payer back on the table.
Obama seems to have forgotten the voters. He could have insisted on Single Payer from the start, yet he didn't.
That says a lot.
The only way I can see universal health care happening for Americans is when Canada invades you and forces you to have it. Seriously.
For the reasons they've discussed, I strongly feel that
1. We need election reform more than anything else
2. We really must make single payer a moral issue - not how the facsists always make everything a moral issue
3. We really need to create a strong liberal third party - the democrats have failed us too many times.
4. This has much chance of happening as the sky turning polka dots, but -- corporations should stop being equivalent to personhoods.
it's like asking the foxes already in the hen house to swear off chicken.
Perhaps we should make it a moral issue. Maybe we should point out big time how much our politicians rely on huge cash for their media publicity. This, of course, takes on how the media cleans up from election ads/propaganda.
corporations. No conflict of interest there, huh?
moved by appeals made on moral grounds, it wouldn't be an issue now.
There are 2 separate and distinct classes in this country, The Ruling and the ruled.
note how the facsists always make everything a moral issue
.
That's just it. We are really a very religious country, and generally think in terms of morality. A perfect recent example are the "death panals." While some of the screamers are no doubt paid for their discent, others really believe what they're screaming. I truly think it's time to coin things within a moral compass.
Campaign finance reform AND a federal holiday on Election Day. If you F* with any voters on election day? Into jail you go for a minimum of 60 days and no bail.
In terms of the health care debate, the corporate interests which run health care are monopolies. They are not interested, per se, in a good business model or even in a healthy profit. They are interested in complete control of market share and extortion. And extortion is not being alarmist. Control market share and then make people dependent, whether by law(like an insurance mandate) or otherwise and then raise prices through the roof. Look at electric prices with enron, gas with the oil companies. These practices have nothing to do with a hard earned profit or a respectable business model and LEAST OF ALL nothing to do with capitalism. In fact, any reasonable person would agree that Adam Smith who condemned corporations and their alliances with government would love a government that simply trust busted and allowed more competition. His definition of profit was not net revenue but a business model which provided for certain self interests. For example, an employee owned company could realize substantial profit but it would not be reflected in its balance sheet because the profit could be dedicated to employee salaries and the long term growth of the company because the employees would have a self interest in their salaries and their long term employment prospects. We seem to completely misunderstand the concept of profit. We've been brainwashed to believe profit means dividends, ceo salaries, stock options. It really means none of that. I just think it would help if we stopped calling or implying capitalism was evil and started pointing out the actual fierce liberalism of capitalism and the reality of the corporatist state we live in now. And then we should point out that to have a competitive market sometimes government must have a role. So I'd like your thoughts as to whether or not we should explore this issue of business models and profits more deeply and perhaps try to put them in better context. I like it because I think it helps clarify just exactly what is going on. Thanks
perverted into a narrow definition that benefits few, relatively speaking. I bow to your obvious superior knowledge of economics, but I'll play if you go easy on me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe6kGJDGctU
info on how both the "Dems" & "Repubs" are bought: http://c4ss.org/content/984
George Washington University, Health Insurance Industry fraud (in PDF) here (for some reason it opens to the second page).
Here's an excerpt from the works of Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim, called Paracelsus, from the book Paracelsus: Selected Writings, translated by Norbert Gutterman:
Not in riches does our happiness consist, but in our natural needs. For in our needs there is also love; love does not pursue riches, riches defraud the fellow man. But this is against God, and the blessed life becomes worm-eaten. If the patient gives you, physician, what you need and nothing more, then you are both blessed. If you give him health, which is his need, and nothing more, then you are both blessed. ...Let them give you as much as you need, but no riches; riches would bring you only damnation, but poverty will bring you blessedness. For our kingdom is not of this world, but of the life everlasting.
Without the rich, nothing can be accomplished in behalf of the poor; the rich are bound to the poor as by a chain. ...You, rich men, learn to know this chain, for if you ever break one link of it, you will not only by breaking the chain, but you yourselves will be cast aside like the broken link. Why do you make yourselves free from the poor and deny them your help? Just as by taking a few links from a chain, you would be making it too short, so without the poor, your path will be too short to lead to Heaven, and you will never attain to the goal that lies at the end of the chain.
I copied it to save and then provide to my friends and, sad to say, relatives who think they have no reason to help those less fortunate.
Don't forget the be.
Paracelsus view was a little too spiritual in metaphor. So how about a biological metaphor?
The cells that constitute your body are allowed to work in their own self-interests, in combination with others cells that do the same, but once they work aberrantly, your body, which constitutes the community of cells, casts them out, or they have to be cut out like cancerous lesions.
You quote Paracelsus:
"You, rich men, learn to know this chain, for if you ever break one link of it, you will not only by breaking the chain, but you yourselves will be cast aside like the broken link."
There seems to be at least one word missing after the word "only."
You will not only (some verb) by breaking the chain...
?
.
It is be.
I was typing it from a xeroxed copy of excerpts I've kept, not cutting and pasting.
Seriously?
I'm not sure why he chose that name, he was was born under the name Phillipus Bombast von Hohenheim. His father was a Swabian chemist named William Bombast von Hohenheim. I think the book referred to the name Bombast being chosen by his father, and the rest Phillipus took on later, including the Latinization to Bombastus.
However, when Paracelsus died, it's my understanding that some people made fun of the Bombastus part, it seems the word Bombast was already in the language.
According to Webster on-line it came from the Medieval Latin bombac, and the Greek bombyk, but my usual online translators don't recognize either one.
However the book on Paracelsus made clear he was for teaching medicine in the vernacular (in his case German), instead of Latin as was the custom. He also taught that doctors should consult with everyone involved with healing if they have a successful history, to learn how they were successful, so he spoke with everyone from Gypsies, to midwives to hausfraus with family recipes, thus leading to frequent accusations against him of witchcraft. Paracelus means Greater than Celsus (an ancient encyclopedist). So it may've been his way of ribbing his opposition.
His attitude toward cures was so what if it's written; if it doesn't work throw it out.
This is so mind-boggling. If this fails, we should privatize air and water.
It is already being done with water.
for good behavior next month.
He's the brave man who hurled his shoes at that villain Bush.
I hope that the world treats this folk-hero with the gratitude that he deserves.
means an UN-healthy GOP. They have gone 'all in' on the failure of the Dems and they are not really concerned with who dies ib the process! The 'hysterical button' has been pushed and the array of 'flavors of fear' is amazing. The 'fear cards' are being played at break-neck speed on every level. We LIBERALS want to 'pull the plug' on grandma, to destroy her medicare to get enough money to 'buy' a real-good forgery of President Obama's 'gift-certifcate' because the 'brains' on the 'right' CAUGHT us hiding this bi-racia-baby and his 'sordid' up-bringing to become the leader of the 4th reich WITHOUT ANYONE KNOWING IT!!
I miss Monica, I miss Monica, da da da da da....
has to be 'campaign reform'! Get big-money out of our campaigns and 'publically' finance them.
We really need to go this route, otherwise we'll always be screwed. In either party, how many times has someone been told, "If you don't vote this way, we will not support (give you money) for the next election?". Or, as recently with NY Senator Gillibrand, vs Rep. McCarthy, the democratic party made it clear they would not support McCarthy (not give her money) and wanted Gillibrand instead. This goes on in both parties.
before she went to the Senate. That would have been the only way to beat that drunken wife-beating bully John Sweeney in upstate NY then (to be fair to her).
but if we had election reform that put everyone on an even kneel financailly and debate-wise, we could have voted (I live in NY) during a special election after really getting to know where these three stood, and finding out what a piece of dirt Sweeney is. I'm not knocking Gillibrand, but she was pretty much annoited by the democratic party.
And I agree with you. I wish I knew the whole story about Caroline Kennedy. Something funny there.
If only we knew how to do that.
every 'tax-return' kicks in $10 and simple 'media access' regulations and the use of 'debates' rather than 'political commercials' and that's why a big part of the fight is going to be with the 'media-giants' and the 'profits' they reap from the 'political horse-race'.
is why the majority of the politicians wouldn't want election reform. It would take a great deal of financial pressure off off them. Or is it that too many politicians realize that they have nothing to offer their constiuents and would rather do commercials and sound bites than participate in a full blown debate.
has turned 'public service' into 'corporate-auditions'.
This has a similiar effect of the 'corruption of motive', i.e. an American GI's 'motive' is to protect America and GET HOME, blackwater contracted mercenary motive, keep the war 'GOING' and protect the 'Profit-Margin'.
that 'profit-margin' even supercedes 'life' in the 'Death-for-Profit-System' we have now.
no draft. How fast would the protesters come out if their children were being drafted? The politicians learned much from Nam.
Now that it has become so easy to fix elections (Diebolt), the whole concept is quickly becoming a joke. See Iran.
the moral angle to health care is important but i feel the economic angle has more impact to the opposition. the right wants people to talk about the moral angle. they automatically go into the "hand out" and "socialized" linguistics. to me a better strategy is the economic necessity of health care cost reform. present insurance cost for a average family of four is about $12, 300 up from $5,350 in 1998.
the actuaries/economist estimate health care cost for this same family of four will double in ten years.
that will be about $25,000. this is NOT sustainable. this will increase the number of uninsured and underinsured. the cost for this increasingly growing demographic will be shifted to the local governments/paying pool......essentially a "hidden tax". we need at least an effective "public option" that offers a large/inclusive insurance exchange/pool to reduce cost and instill competition. have a "public option" that everyone pays into. this will provide economic growth.
money on the "undeserving" others (non-whites, i.e., their "inferiors,"), they freeze up. They'd rather suffer a little inconvenience, or experience a bunch of denial, than to be "burdened" by "supporting" the (criminal, dirty, sick, lazy, fornicating, foreign) "inferiors."
White people constitute 70% of the population. 60 percent of them are in the lowest economic quintile, and would benefit inestimably from the provision by the State of inexpensive (free?) medical care. But they are apparently willing to forego those beneifts if it means those same advantages will NOT go to the despised "others."
that's text-book racism...
How much did Jesus charge to heal the sick?
http://thequestionthatmustbeasked.blogspot.com/
spamming today? Saw you post this link on other threads.
No, I just think it is a question that is not being asked, especially to Conservatives.
Moyers is absolutely right. This is not to say that there aren't differences between the two parties, but unfortunately the Democrats can't seem to win, or want to win, the big debates. They don't lose on the basis of merit, but, as Maher says, it call comes down to "greed" and "ignorance". The greed of the corporatocracy and the ignorance of the masses.
And, as Moyers says, the only way we can as a country reclaim DEMOCRACY, is to rid the political system of MONEY as the determining force.
And he is absolutely right-on about the way in which the Supreme Court has codified the role of money.
Which is why legislation will not be able to reform campaigns in this respect because of the Court.
And so, we'll continue to be a stupid country, lagging behind all the other industrialized countries in having a decent, civilized, progressive society. Because we don't want it, I guess.
.
The text of Moyers' comments should be forwarded to President Obama for his close reading, reflection, and compliance. Maybe it should be Moyers for President!!!!
Moyers, chief of staff, gatekeeper to the president.
Moyers comes from a family of Texas Baptist ministers. For all the self-proclaiming "we're the Real Christians" that you hear from the right-wing fundamentalists, it's evident that in Moyers the real spirit of Jesus and Christianity is alive.
Send this video around.....he speaks in a way that no Republican could effectively equal or challenge.
He's like Jimmy Carter in that -- a Baptist who believes in separation of Church and State.
And I love Noah's comment above, but think it should be changed slightly to something like:
Separation of Church and State is not enough -- we also need separation of Business and State.
Bill Moyers is a giant... what a man.
Such insight. I wish more people would listen to him.
This was so obvious during the Democratic presidential campaign. The candidates that supported keeping Insurance companies in the health care game got all of the media attention....Obama and Clinton. The candidates that wanted single payer universal health care...like Kucinich and Dodd, were ignored and discredited.
And during the debates when it comes time for Kucinich to answer a question what do they ask him? "Have you ever seen a UFO?". The fix is in with the media during the elections people. Wake up and reject the corporate puppets. We need more real representatives of the people like Kucinich, Dodd and Frank.
we have election reform or the media stands to gain something $$$$ from it.
This Country was 'founded' by PROGRESSIVES and has PROGRESSED because of PROGRESSIVES. All seems to have a certain logic to it.
What is it that conservatives have conserved? And the bigger question is 'what' has any conservative EVER done for the American Worker.
I keep asking republicans this question and have yet been given an answer that made any sense.
I agree. I've been saying it. But still hoping it isn't really all that bad. You know what I'm saying?
But when Moyers comes out and says it all out so clearly, I can't hold on to my last shred of hoping that I'm wrong. You are right, it was obvious. But I grew up in D.C., and could always say, maybe I'm cynical. And now, I'm in the south, so maybe it is better with other politicians (well OK Kucinich it is!). Or, maybe after my experience of working in Pharma, I just see the money influence more often than it is really there?
Nope. Moyers sees it clearly. It is there, time to come out of denial.
With truth comes power. You will feel better. Anger is the next stage, righteous anger. Let it wash over you, as it will strengthen your resolve.
I'm angry. Anger has washed over me.
My resolve is strengthened.
Now what?
papers. Show up at town hall meetings to counteract the lies. People have to organize protests on a local level, possibly coordinated by dates, to allow those who cannot travel for whatever reason to attend. Put signs on your lawns. Display bumper stickers. This is a propaganda war, so far. I am sure you can think of ways, if you let yourself go.
Wash over me? Hell, I'm drowning!
.
There are times I'm so choked with anger I can barely breath. I've been frightened as well, and paralyzed, for a long time. Too scared to speak out because I may not know enough, because I'm stupid, or because someone might scream at me with their grain of distorted truth and outright lies. It is time to fight back, as savannah43 as written. It's time to not be frighten of words like liberal and socialist and to wear them with pride. I know I'm rambling but there it is.
In 2003 I finally realized that the news stopped in 2000. It was getting bad before then but it became full in your face lie and lie again in 2003, and has gotten worse since.
I never watch the tee vee news. I catch clips here and some other sites but I never watch it first hand anymore. I was channel surfing the other day and hit fox just about the time the phone rang. In the process of answering the phone I forgot about the fox channel being on. When my call was over i was making a note about the call when I realized what bullshit wallace was saying on fox. It bothered me so bad I gouged out my eyes and ears. But on the bright side I don't have to watch or listen to fox any more!
I love the new C&L video player. Resizing, color options and all.
Kudos to the code monkeys working behind the scenes. :)
Ralph Nader has been saying much the same thing for years.
Both parties are controlled by the identical corporate entities.
But we continue to hope and believe.
Let's keep banging our heads on the wall.
Is one of an ever shrinking handfull of journalists that I even bother to listen to any more. I feel like Mr Moyers speaks from the heart, whereas most of the others speak mainly from their wallet via the corporate script. If Mr Moyers is as corupt as the rest of the main stream media he has hidden it well. Unlike the humes,kilmeades,wallaces,oliars,todds,williams,the guy on meet the press,everyone on fox,most everyone on cnn,and some on msnbc, I could go one forever with the brooks,kruthammers,wills,buchannons,the first fat fuck zar bennett. I mean it is an unending list of knuckle dragging dim witted, uncaring, self serving, willing to lie for a few dollars so called journalists. Didn't mean to sugar coat it so much, but these people really stink and we should remove them from the public, No one needs to have this kind of well managed self serving line of lies and bullshit cast at us day in day out year after year. We have got to put an end to lies spread by this bunch of paid liars. They have a right to say what they want but they don't have a right to lie for profit and broadcast it to the public at large without the public knowing that what they are saying is in fact a lie.
WE need some truth in broadcasting. If it ain't true you can't say it. Go to jail if you do. These people are much worse then drug dealers and should serve sentences worse for the crimes of lying on the public airways.
Remember, this proven fact republicanism is a mental illness!
facts alone. No commentary, no slant, no opinions. Just facts. Commentary and opinions must be labeled as such, and disclaimers must appear before and after they are broadcast. No more "Fox News." Now it would have to be "Fox Opinions." Anyone else have any ideas?
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