Rachel Maddow Tells Pat Buchanan to Quit Living in the 1950's and That He's Playing With Fire With His Rhetoric
By Heather Friday Jul 17, 2009 10:00am
During what was at times a bit of a heated exchange, but way too chummy in general -- given the type of browbeating Pat Buchanan actually deserves for his continued racist remarks on MSNBC -- Rachel Maddow ends up telling Pat Buchanan to quit living in the 1950s, and that he's fanning the flames of racial hatred with his rhetoric. Before that, she gives him ample opportunity to put on full display, again, just how horribly he thinks the poor, downtrodden white man is being treated in America.
Some of Pat’s "finer" moments during the interview.
-- Comparing Sonia Sotomayor to Harriet Miers.
-- Calling her a purely affirmative action candidate by the President and completely dismissing her academic accomplishments.
-- Saying that “white folks” built this country.
-- Calling Bork and Scalia “real scholars” and "tremendous minds" and saying Sotomayor hasn’t risen to their level.
-- Saying the only reason she was appointed to the bench was because of affirmative action.
-- Complaining about Sotomayor getting a chance to go to the best schools and knocking out someone who might have gotten better grades than her. When has Pat Buchanan ever complained about the likes of George Bush and other legacy children being allowed into the best schools because of who their parents are, and knocking other kids out? I would guess he has not. I’ve certainly never heard him bring it up. Rachel should have called him on that one if he'd let her get a word in to do it.
When asked if she got the grades she did in college because of affirmative action, saying that in the Ivy League schools, half the kids graduate cum laude now. Really? So they're raising students' grade point averages in college now and no one told the rest of us about it? Then retreating to saying he bet he graduated higher in his high school class than she did, and going so far as to say he probably did better than she did in college as well, but he doesn't think he's qualified to be on the Supreme Court.
So being a judge for seventeen years doesn't count for anything in Pat's world. And Pat says he did better than she did in school, without backing that up with any specifics. If anyone knows just what his grade point averages were in high school and college, I'd like to find out.
He compared the track team at the Olympics potentially being all black or a hockey team being all white to the racial make up of the Supreme Court. Yeah, that's exactly the same thing, Pat. He seems to have forgotten that there was a time not all that long ago that blacks in America were not even allowed to play on the same team as white people.
And he refused to say there is anything wrong with the fact that the Supreme Court has been made up almost entirely of white men for all these years and might benefit from other races being represented. He dodged back opining over the firemen they trotted out there as a political game at the hearing rather than answer the question.
I really don't understand why Rachel felt the need to bring him on if she was going to let him lie and talk over her for the better part of the interview. She's just not aggressive enough to deal with the likes of this bully, and he knows it. MSNBC has allowed Buchanan to become a racist sideshow on their network. As Media Matters has wondered: What would Pat Buchanan have to say to get himself fired from MSNBC?
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Buchanan should never be barred
From spewing his racist canard;
Do not disavow him:
Let Maddow allow him
To hoist himself on his petard.
News Short n' Sweet by JFD8
http://twitter.com/JFD8
If someone steals something (power and opportunity) from people and then gives it to their innocent children, who give it to the innocent grandchildren and then the innocent great grandchildren. . . the great grandchildren still can't really cry "reverse theft" when the authorities finally take it back and give it to the descendants of the original owners. Many generations may pass and new innocent generations may jump on the wagon along the way but the fact of the matter is that, innocent or not, they are ALL benefiting from stolen property in the first place.
The elephant in the room is that many white people today (especially crusty older white males) don't feel any obligation to pay back the debts of their ancestors. They think that great great grandpa (or his generation) may have stolen something they benefited from. . but it's been in the family long enough now that they shouldn't have to give it back (or give up anything for that matter) to make things right.
They want to play lip service to equal rights but only as long as today's "level play field" exists without taking their legacy away from them.
Excellent analogy!
embarassed enough to pass over the last half of this shit.
Ole Boy Pat has cooked his goodies and I am writing MSNBC to urge them to fire this asshole.
I can't wait for these crusty old white guys to die off (from natural causes). I'm a white guy pushing 50, but I don't think anything like these guys.
Sadly, I've heard lots of this shit from other white guys through my lifetime. And, yes, I DO speak up.
By the same token , when a person had nothing to do with this and their family had nothing to do with is you are saying you do not give a d...
When a dead horse is beaten to death then let if be..
Huzzah!
No black person could sign the Declaration of Independence because they couldn't lift their chains over their waist.
I'm impressed.
ignore angry bitter old racists in our lives from time to time. Pat's time has come.
well put. now why does NBC have to put up with him? Contracts, or do they value his point of view as representative of where the country is on these issues? Ha!
has to stir up some controversy in order to be watched...Their ratings are in the toilet...Besides, it is to the advantage of the progressives to have such perversion exposed and not hearsay.... There is no reason to refute a fool when it is on tape! Let it all hang out...let them expose themselves for what they are--racists-bigots- and stupid to boot!
Obama has consistently let his opponents show their A$$...then reined them in to impotence---Look at the clintons!!
or MSNBC's own Alan Colmes, if you will
Bjork's a scholar?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741xo_d9nHo
http://www.businesspundit.com/wp-content/uplo...
you still kicking around?
.
Pat Buchanan...
... Sexist/Racist.
Nuff said.
.
Pat is partly right. While 'white folks' didn't actually 'build' the country, guys just like him have unfortunately been far too often in the position of running the joint.
And that goes a long, long way in explaining the general f**kedupedness we find ourselves in.
And, he couldn't be hoist on his on petard fast enough to suit me.
Yea, Pat and Dubya dodged the draft so someone else could better themselves in his place.
democrats like Clinton and Obama did the same d... thing...
Obama was born in 1961 - by the time he was eligible, there was no draft.
And actually, Pat Buchanan was 4F.
when the 'draft was in..I have many friends that had Dr.s falsify the records for them during Vietnam!
Obama is not old enough to have been part of the 'draft'!...but bclinton did avoid the draft! As did many of the Congressmen currently inside the Beltway!
"Avoiding" the draft is a statement carefully crafted (by conservatives) to imply that one did not serve their country. That's not always true.
What does "avoiding" the draft mean? That you went to Canada? Maybe. Or had a doctor declare you 4-F? What about those who avoided the draft by going overseas to go to college? If they came back and used what they learned to better their community, did they not serve their country? What about those who enlisted in the Coast Guard in order not to be drafted? Did they not serve?
And what of those who got cushy assignments to tony stateside national guard units full of Congressmens' and dignitaries' sons who knew for a fact that they'd never see any duties at all, let alone Vietnam? Did they serve their country?
The question of whether or not one served their country--as in the cases of Buchanan, Clinton, Bush, McCain, RushDimbulb, Kerry, and on and on--is complex. It's as much a matter of the intent of one's actions as it is the actions themselves. I am certainly not one to support Bill Clinton, and yes, he "avoided" the draft. Did he serve his country, though? I'd say he did. Did some others who were actually "enlisted"? I'd say no.
And Pat knows it.
He longs for the "good old days"
100% of the deaths at Gettysburg were white casualties and nearly 100% at Normandy. I really wish Rachael would have stopped right there and confronted him on that absolute fantasy revisionist lunacy.
That stuck me as a place to challenge him also!
as well as the pyramids of Mexico and Central America, as I've heard from a couple of racists....
of L. Ron Hubbard's friends.
built the Mexican and Central American pyramids was a History/Philosophy professor I once had the misfortune of studying under. He is close in age to Ol' Pat.
The person who insisted whites built Egypt's pyramids was someone I encountered while researching Confederate genealogy/history...
was white and built the pyramids. I saw it in "The 10 Commandments." So there.
in the King and I. He could have played the naked Indian in Wayne's World if he hadn't died of lung cancer.
We all know brown people couldn't build stuff without white people to whip them.
was when he brought up the Ricci case and said how sad it was to "actually see the faces of these working men", white men who had been discriminated against.
Right there I would have had to stop him and ask whether he's ever even noticed all the non-white faces being discriminated against in his life.
Like, say, when he was working with one racist after another; Nixon, Reagan, George Wallace, or supporting David Duke - did he ever notice the working faces of the non-whites who were routinely and egregiously discriminated against?
It is outrageous to allow him to continue this rant about poor whites being discriminated against while at the same time claiming that whites have earned some sort of priveleged status.
Rachel got good points in, but, like the blowhard he is, Buchanan knew he would lose if he didn't talk over her, and that's what he did.
I applaud her control but I wish she would have pegged him on that.
All these references to the Ricci case. When Sotomayor was first proposed, the Republicans were sooo afraid that she would be too "empathetic" (which they seemed to think meant the same thing as "sympathetic") (her being one a woman and all) and now, as least regarding Ricci et el, they feel she isn't empathetic enough.
..they need a foil.
Boy, that's a LOT nicer than it the way I originally wrote it.
Whew, saved myself from the Site Monitor's DELETE button.
backs.
... to be given his walking papers.
Oh, and Pat? By asserting that you're smarter than Judge Sotamayor, you can be sure hackers are rifling through your high school grade transcript in short order. (What's that? You went to COLLEGE? No! Get out of here! You're kidding!)
Besides, wouldn't being SMART make you an elitist, like the rest of us DFH's? I thought God liked his worshippers to be uninformed, uneducated, and unquestioningly obedient.
Pat and Bay escaped being eaten as babies.
Shortly after they were born, in Czechoslovakia. Check their DNA.
I knew they didn't have the blarney to be IRA.
Are they Czech, Slovak, or what Brian Kilmeade would call mixed species?
Buchanan has English, German, Scots Irish, and Irish ancestry. He had a great-grandfather who fought in the American Civil War on the Confederate side. He is a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans and admires Robert E. Lee.
That certainly explains a lot about who Pat Buchanan really is. His victim complex is truly sickening. I mean, why do so many gray-haired white males feel like they're entitled to so much more than anyone else, especially minority women?
Hey Pat! Knock it off, you're not the victim here. Your time has come and gone, old man. You need to step aside so younger, more enlightened generations can claim their place in history. You silly old bastard...
during the campaign, in which he claimed:
That the best thing that ever happened to blacks was when they were abducted and brought here as slaves.
That blacks should be grateful that they live here.
That Obama is just some slick ghetto street hustler.
I think it was in the WSJ and I can't figure out why he gets away with this blatant racism without being busted.
And this typical GOP crap where they just yell over everybody until time runs out needs to be addressed too. They only do it because they get away with it. Enough Already!!!
But Buchanan is really a Scottish name.
like Jon Stewart is.
He's an idiot. She asked good questions, stated her positions, let him blather on ignorantly with talking points he had clearly practiced.
What else would you have her do? Shout over him? "She's not
strongaggressive enough" ... enough to do what? Pull a Glenn Beck (or whoever) and have his mic cut? Scream until he stops talking? Match him in rudeness and abrasiveness and sound-bite-ish-ness?I'd love to see him silenced by logic as much as the next sane human being. It probably won't happen. People need to stop hoping that political discussions will end up with someone verbally beaten into silence or even convinced of the error of their ways. If only the world worked that way ...
-w
there are ways to control without cutting mics.
First, since you know he's likely to do the shouting over everyone tactic, you address it at the beginning of the segment: "I'm asking you now to limit your answers because this will be a dialogue, not a monologue."
Then, when he doesn't shut up, you do the broken record; repeat "Pat, stop talking", until he does.
With these people, it is necessary to take control back every single time they talk or they will just keep running over everyone - it's what they do because it WORKS for them. Until we stop letting them, they'll continue.
why is all our industry and jobs being moved to China, Mexico, and other places where cheap labor is still exploitable.
Now that we've shuttered and boarded up the United Shopping Mall of America I guess he has little material left.
My old pappy used to say things were fine in this country before they let the Irish and Italians in. He was OK with the Scandanavians.
Anything else they contributed for our long term survival?
Consumed would be more like it.
My many times great ol' granpappy used to say "This place was great till that a'hole Chris Columbus crashed here."
At least, I hope so.
Sotomayor doesn't have to prove herself to this pontificating provocateur, just to those like him throwing shit at her during the parody they've blithely described as a "confirmation hearing."
I admire Maddow for allowing Buchanan to spew his putrid hatred in a very public venue, so others may pause and question why these old racists are so threatened by Sotomayor.
Pat and Sarah, both appealing to a dwindling base of disaffected white voters. Usually Pat, for all his radical views, at least has better political smarts than that.
my local PBS affiliate when they keep showing Lawrence Welk?
He is one dumb mick, with a definite lack of breeding, whose college education did nothing to remedy. He now fills the airwaves with concepts his betters wouldn't dare phrase in quite the same way he does as he is, after all, their patsy-fall guy-mouthpiece. He is Archie Bunker in a suit.
Yep. and he uses his hands as a weapon. when the hands go up i stop listening because it's going to be stupid. Just look for the two hands when he lies. It the tell.
... is straight out of "Triumph of the Will."
It's one of the things that's always bothered me about ol' Pat. He deliberately cultivates the use of Hitler's body language.
Hell, at one appearance during his run for president, he was on a podium and had a bunch of young skinheads behind him, all wearing brown shirts.
Are you serious??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzznpCeU1VM
My grandfather had that exact car. The Chevy with fins.
were actually the beginning of the end.
which made the film (sometime after 1959) is today 58% Hispanic,
41% Black, and 1% Hitchhiking Horror survivors.
“white folks” built this country
After all, we did swing most of the whips and pull most of the triggers, even if other people did the majority of the actual "building" part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xtW1-Sq6Sc
We built this country on whips and guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxGGckAc1rs
We still run it on the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yRfqkybud4&fe...
on rock 'n roll.
Jefferson Starship
I'm going to have that tune in my head forever! You genius bastard!!!
I turned Maddow off during her intro for this guy. I don't need to ever hear this person's voice ever again in my life, the same as if I were offered a shit sandwich. I don't need to taste it to know it's crap, and probably not to my liking.
He's got no cred, no area of expertise, no reason I should waste my time on this waste of flesh.
"Pat Buchanan is a waste of flesh". good description. maybe NBC wil recognize that he is not helping.
http://midwestrocklobster.com/100107/shitonas...
Don't do that. Maddow is worth your viewership no matter who she's talking to. Let the network know you support her. VOTE WITH YOUR CHANNEL CHANGER.
How long will they continue to give that bigot a platform? Send him back to the Carolina he came from.
Get used to it.
He's watching the world change from his type being the leaders and the bosses to a new world where his type is not guaranteed those positions. He probably never dreamed that would happen. Of course it's been changing for years, but not in his circle. Now he has to face it all around him, from the President to the Supreme Court. He's going kicking and screaming but he knows it's too late and he is no longer considered the highest form of life, white life.
Bush and the Neocons really screwed things up.
... that the unrest in Iran can be laid at their door, thanks to Bush stealing the election in 2000 and 2004, without consequence.
So, the vote favors Mousavi ... all Ahmadinejad has to do is pull a George W. Bush and trot out a favorable court (or, in his case, the clerics). Nobody's gonna say boo, 'cause nobody said anything to George W. Bush, leading salesman of God's Gift of Freedom.
as usual.
And they will not go quietly, which is why there are all these "domestic terrorist" acts that the media wants to mis-characterize as isolated incidents by solitary whackos.
These people are dangerous, and Buchanan, and his other supremicist buddies are wilfully trying to rile them up. They'll disavow any responsibility for any violence, and they'll use it as an excuse to keep themselves in the limelight - just like the scum who convince people to strap bombs on and kill themselves and as many people as possible.
The people doing the ranting and the inciting of all this violence always manage to stay above it themselves. They get the microphone, the idiots who listen to them get their lives ended.
Buchanan is one of them.
Just stop right there, Pat. Don't lie and be a bigot, then try to include me or anyone else in the bigotry.
detract from the facts he gets right. Guess he hasn't figured it out.
She didn't let this pig of and individual "lie and talk over her for the better part of the interview" as Heather stated above.
I've been watching Pat Buchanan for years. Never have his rants been more viscous, blatant and anti-American than those he he so fluidly and easily espoused last night as a direct result of Rachel's very clever questioning.
Until last night, Pat has always been able to lie and couch his pathetic hatred in niceties partly because his rants are so over-the-top hateful that other interviewers can't wrap their minds around the fact that he really feels the way he does and so they give him a "gentle out" from his tirades.
Not Rachel. She told him straight to his face that he was stone cold wrong and anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of American history and decency knows full well that she is right.
Pat's painfully twisted and distorted idea of history and his deep seated desire for another ignorant and hate-filled up rising is criminal. It is Rachel we have to thank for exposing this bastard for what he is.
Need proof?
Pat Buchanan: "Well, I think that white men were 100 percent of the people who wrote the Constitution, 100 percent of the people who wrote the Declaration of Independence, 100 percent of the people who died at Gettysburg and Vicksburg, probably close to 100 percent of the people who died at Normandy.
This is been a country built basically by white folks in this country who were 90 percent of the nation in 1960 when I was growing up, and about 10 percent were African Americans who had been discriminated against."
Pat is now free to wear his white sheet and hood in public now.
Margaret Cochran Corbin fought alongside her husband in the American Revolutionary War and was the first woman to receive pension from the United States government as a disabled soldier.
Fundraising is under way for a new statue in Gettysburg that will be unusual because its subject is a woman - it is a tribute to the women of Gettysburg who served and suffered before, during and after the battle.
As to the Declaration of Independence and Constitution-I saw an A&E biography of John Adams that showed letters from Abigail urging him to provide women equal rights, the right to vote, and own property. She apparently had quite a bit of input.
Trying to confuse a racist like Pat with the facts. As Pat and other GOP ChristoTalibanists will tell you, never let the facts get in the way of a good hateful racist rant.
The reason so many of the brave soldiers who died at Normandy were white is simply that nonwhites were forbidden in the military in any way other than menial capacities. Minorities were segregated and only grudgingly allowed into combat in very limited numbers. If you send only white people into battle, only white people die.
"When people show you who they are; believe them."
I wish Rachel had been able to get a word in edgewise long enough to ask him about Clarence Thomas. Nobody but an African American male would have passed muster as Thurgood Marshall's replacement, so Bush the First had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with a judicial lightweight who was conservative enough to pass muster. If that's not affirmative action, it's hard to fathom what was.
coke can jokes and such.
Did he say...."this one"? Haha. JK; not the same context as when McLame laid that one on President Obama.
Wow, look at Pat go....I must....obey...his hypnotically....mighty....karate hands....
... is that it isn't a product of rational thought.
It's a scotoma, a self-reinforcing mindset/blind spot.
For example, if I mention that I just bought a white Toyota Prius, you might find yourself noticing white Toyota Priuses (Priii?) on the road ... ignoring, of course, all the instances where you see Toyota Priuses of other colors.
So the racist viewpoints of someone like Pat Buchanan are validated because he looks at the news and only sees that which reinforces his viewpoints. Thus, he doesn't see Sonia Sotamayor as an experienced judge and educated woman, he sees her as being just another wetback sponging off of what rightly belongs to the 'white American majority.'
You can parade exemplars of Hispanic-Americans in front of Pat all day, but he'll never see them.
It's like the time President Bush told the Philippine president that he was 'reminded of the contributions made by the Philippino people every time ... he had dinner served to him by the Philippino chef/wait staff.' Never mind that people like General Anthony Taguba existed within the Bush Administration; Bush doesn't see him.
Plus it has bitchin bucket seats and a black vinyl top.
There's a select list of people who are allowed to blow my Prius, and you're not on the list. :P
I would have driven the Hummer and not the Scotoma.
Regardless, Pat would have loaded up the kiddies in whatever he was driving and taken them as far from that Philadelphia swim club as he could.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8
His sentences about the track team were some of his most damaging words. He looks at the team, they are all black and in his head he says that's fine because he knows black people can run fast. But if he sees a black person in a position of high intelligence and authority, he doesn't think they belong there because in his mind they don't have the ability to be intelligent and authoritative.
This man will die a racist because his head is so wired to believe the way he does. He'll never change and sadly there are a lot more like him who will live their whole life in denial of reality. Their whole security in life was that they were white.
... I don't concern myself about the track team, because the purpose of the track team is to win competitions, so you pick your best athletes.
On the other hand, the Supreme Court is a body whose rulings impact a diverse nation and must also protect the rights of the minority by way of the Preamble to the Constitution - provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.
And Buchanan would be willing to construe an all-Black court as being unable to render a fair verdict about white men, so why is it different when the court is all-White? Why can white men be perceived as fair by default, and black men cannot? (This is the same question asked by Eugene Robinson, in the excellent column you pointed out earlier this week.)
That Robinson piece was wonderful! White men are no longer the standard by which all others are measured or judged.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T5zIHuD0BU
. . . and now they are consumed by fear.
When Pat sees Sotomayor, the only thing he sees is NON-WHITE-MAN. He notices race then he notices gender. He is incapable of seeing her accomplishments, dedication or accolades. He can claim as fact without any attempt at mustering evidence that she's unworthy of the appointment. He is exhibit A for why we need affirmative action. He is constitutionally incapable of giving a non-white-man a chance, unless the person in question shills for a right-wing agenda.
For the Buchanans of the world, anything a non-white-man gets is taken away from a white man, to whom it rightfully belongs. He can only see issues of race as a zero-sum gain. If Sotomayor goes to Princeton, then clearly she unfairly shoved out a white person.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwsR71YZPac
Guess everybody needs a turd in their punchbowl now and then.
He really was an asshole in this segment, even for Pat. You could see that the very patient and gracious Maddow was basically pretty tired of his shit, too.
and his types to stay employed.
LOL
I think Racists like Pat keep Beck, Hannity and Rush employed because sadly, Pat is something of an "intellectual" hater and racist. At least he is to them. And lord knows, those GOP ChristoTalibanists need them some thar' intellectuals. After all, George Will is dead. Reagan is dead. You get the point.
Rachel can investigate and report plenty of news that actually matters and still win big ratings without the likes of Pat.
Can't wait to see how Rush and Beck step in it today rushing to Pat's defense. Pigs are as Pigs do.
I'm guessing rush and beck and the rest will declare Pat the winner of that debate. They have to because otherwise, they would be admitting that some of Pat's points were wrong and that Rachel pointed them out.
It is not out of the realm of possibility that Rush, Beck and Hannity will say Pat won solely because Pat shouted louder than she did and not because he was right. Shouting skills he's honed from years on the McLaughlin Group and that all GOP ChristoTalibanists use when their version of reason and logic fails them.
So how do we get hold of his college grades and compare them to the Judge's. He apparently thinks his are superior to hers even though I doubt he has seen hers.
"When asked if she got the grades she did in college because of affirmative action, saying that in the Ivy League schools, half the kids graduate cum laude now."
That's the kind of shit that shows how desperate he is and how full of shit he is.
... affirmative action, just so minorities get A's, too.
Whaddaloadacrapola.
"She's just not aggressive enough to deal with the likes of this bully, and he knows it."
Hmmm..I think Rachel did a good job(good not great)of going after Pat
and his neolithic world view given the aforementioned Buchanan debating tactics.I've also seen how forceful she can be in defending her own opinions.She's a lovely lady who when pressed,doesn't stand for too much horse shit.
cutting off their mic your idea of a strong television host? Try FOX?
I admire Ms. Maddow for publicly confronting individuals with a very different viewpoint. I particularly admire the way she always faces such individuals with facts and personal respect (at least, more respect than I sometimes feel they deserve).
All of us are in constant danger of falling prey to the echo chamber of our own convictions, and however wrong we may feel some opposing views may be, we owe it to ourselves to continue facing them. Not only does this help to chip away our weak ideas, but it also helps to strengthen us for other debates.
Personally, I feel that Mr. Buchanan's opinions are ill-informed and ill-considered. I also feel that his general attitude is unpleasant. But I believe that by exposing these opinions and attitudes to the public, others may perceive his weaknesses and come to share some of my viewpoint.
The reason so many of the brave soldiers who died at Normandy were white is simply that nonwhites were forbidden in the military in any way other than menial capacities. Minorities were segregated and only grudgingly allowed into combat in very limited numbers. If you send only white people into battle, only white people die.
The troops were segregated, but considering the relative size of the minority troops, and their casualty rate, they more than held their own.
However, battles that were seen as potential turning points in the war may've been largely white for propaganda purposes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rYPjoGOY5w
Wow. I didn't know that, but I guess I'm not surprised. I grew up in the Jim Crow south the son of a preacher man and I am regularly impressed by how much progress has been made (not nearly enough, of course) since killing negroes was only barely illegal. Having seen the destructive power of racism and fundamentalist religion can and does wield, I can tell you that I have moved far away from those things as a man shaping his philosophy.The really unpleasant nature of watching PB is that the blatant, naked fear in the man makes me want to look away.
"A meanness of spirit bespeaks a withered soul." je
employed by MSNBC doesn't mean his opinion is worthy of air time. This fucker is an offensive bigot, getting his hate on and being lauded as an 'opposing viewpoint.'
An 'opposing viewpoint' would include opinions based upon a well schooled knowledge of her case history and arguing THOSE points. That's too much work for the likes of Buchanan. I mean, he gets attention and money WITHOUT the time consuming research. Why buy the cow...
And then Ms Maddow gives an old bigot's shitassed rantings voice. He doesn't deserve the time.
I don't need a punishing dose of this old creep to stay away from any echo chamber. I'm quite a bit more enlightened than that, myself.
All the actors here have their assigned roles in this segment? Buchanan under contract with MSNBC, loves to spark controversy. Rachel Maddow knows everything there is to know about Buchanan and how he feels about whites in America, affirmative action and Sotomayor, and she had to know pretty much that the question she asked wouold elicit something not too far from the response Buchanan gave on the controversy scale, and he did not disappoint.
So why didnd't Maddow go nuts on that response, because clearly fom the tape, she didn't. She did toward the end when she told Pat she didn't need a lecture from him, but she didn't on the much more controversial response here in question. Her role is to bait Buchanan, and Buchanan delivered. And now the blogs that got Maddow into having her own show (not that she wasn't qualified for it, but they did, along with KO's help at the lib blogs urging) have some red meat content to post to keep peveryone fed for the day.
MSNBC at this point is getting killed in the ratings and they can't just have a nice sit-down boring chit-chat between Rachel and Pat taking up that much time without something controversial happening. It's all about keeping the wheels greased and churning, and everyone has their part in it to do.
I have to adamantly disagree about MSNBC getting "killed in the ratings". That is always the story when Fox and their ilk talk about numbers as in "total viewers". But that number is highly misleading. It is a simple fact of life that the vast majority of "total viewers" of cable news in general are age 55+ and most of those are white men. People 55+ are the far more likely to get their "news" from TV than any other source other than their local newspaper. Its what they know and trust and their viewing habits are hardest of all demographics to change.
FOX has the lion's share of this large audience. Specifically, the median age of a FOX cable news viewer is 67 years old. Rightly or wrongly, this is not the desirable demographics MSNBC seeks to serve. Those are in the lucrative and highly active 18-54 demographic with 18-34 and 25-54 subsets and they are doing just fine there as the list of advertisers will prove.
Isn't Sotomayor Hispanic, meaning of Spanish descent, meaning her ancestors were from Spain?
Although Christopher Columbus is generally thought to have been born in Italy (that's a little in dispute), Queen Isabella of Spain funded him in order to explore the world.
And I do believe that explorers such as Balboa, Coronado, and Ponce de Leon came from Spain.
Plenty of Hispanics helped to find and explore this country, Mr. Buchanan, you racist.
but Rocky Balboa was definitely Italian.
and i'm pretty sure buchanan is actually polish - not that there's anything wrong with that.
Where's his birth certificate?
I don't know from D-Day, but my grandfather was in an all-black transportation unit during the Battle of the Bulge. Combat intended or not, he got to use his weapon more than a little.
of Cardinal Spellman High School. But, years before, Pat Buchanon did so incredibly well that his school had to create the new category of superduperubervictiorian just to describe his academic achievement. By the time she came along, valedictorian had come to mean pretty good for a brownish girl. So you see, in order to admit her, Princeton had to keep out a white man who was really qualified.
Why is there no snark tag available for comments?
And i got to say, I'm with Pat on this one *shudder*.
Maddow just wants color in the seat which in itself is racist cause she's not concerned with her qualifications.
Pat is not saying "No mexican women" he's saying "Not this mexican woman" big difference. Hell, he's not even saying no mexicans! Does rachel think that only the smartest people are white, and that's why sonja should be given the seat instead of having earned it?
and there arguments are as such:
Maddow: we've never had a mexican on the court, she should be nominated.
Pat: We need to have the brightest minds on the court and sonja is no where near the brightest mind (not because she is mexican) because she didn't have the grades to get into the colleges she got into, and she's been lead to the goals she's accomplished.
that right there is not the brightest mind... hard worker, probably, but not the brightest mind.
if all people are worried about is having a latina on the court that in itself is racist. racism doesn't have to be "ugly" if you are picked for anything based on your race be it a new car or to be killed, that is racism. And it really sounds like that is why maddow wants sonja. Not a good way to pick your leaders.
Late,
QSE32
No, Maddow was saying she's more than qualified, Pat just doesn't like her because she's a liberal.
She said nothing more offensive than Alito did when he was nominated, yet Pat didn't have a hissy fit over HIM.
And if you look at the current Supremes, I'm sure you could find someone "more intelligent" than ALL of them, yet they didn't get nominated instead.
Thinking that Republican presidents always nominate the most intelligent or most deserving and Democratic presidents don't is sheer ignorance and/or arrogance.
17 years on the bench more cases rule on then nearly any other nominatetion. She has the the stats to more then enter the Supreme Court.
But Maddow didn't make that case very well it did come across as more of a "there been so many white people on the court this is to even it out" kind of thing.
from rachel. all i got from rachel was she's latina and everyone else is white let her in!
i can't stand scalia but didn't he stand on his own with grades and such?
as far as someone more intelligent than all of them i agree which is why i don't think the president should nominate i think it should be a committe/panel to vet these people before they're nominated. that way we don't get activists like scalia
i think your right that pat doesn't want her cause she's liberal but he certainly makes his case with her credentials. his track team analogy is spot on.
Late,
QSE32
He didn't discredit her credentials in any shape, form, or fastion.
We must have listened to two different versions of the same interview....
Of course, poor, pontificating Pat Buchanan wants to couch his argument in defensible 'factoids'(at least in his own warped world view), but his intent is clear. His IS a racist argument, and throwing up red herrings to deflect that conclusion is part of his schtick.
had more fallicies in her argument than he did. she was constantly hammering him with the non sequitor
Late,
QSE32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eswySKM9Y3s
Please keep your facts straight. Latino/a does not automatically equal "Mexican." We are not interchangable!
And there's no way in hell that I will ever believe that Pat or the "They just want a 'mexican' on the bench for the heck of it crowd" will be thrilled with any Latino in office. The fact we're even talking about this in the face of Sotomayor's myriad of qualifications and accomplishments just screams it to this Mexican-American
But he did have a point about the firefighters and maddow could not find an answer to his question on that sudject. Sad to see the only people makeing that point about the white firefighters don't really care about those firefighters or how they were discrimanated against. They just want to hold them Up as some all mighty example for whatever crazy view they spouting.
"he was rightfully shown to be a bigot."
i don't think so, at least not this time. but probably only because even a stopped clock is right twice a day
Late,
QSE32
If my memory serves, Pat was excused from the Vietnam war because of a bad knee. When the war was over (1973), his knee was better -- twas a miracle that his recovery coincided with the end of the draft. Praise
the Lord.
Let me guess - a note from the family doctor, witnessed by the local white power male?
dick cheney student deferment
Phil graham Student deferment
Newt Gingrich Student deferment
Quayle opted out of the national guard
Late,
QSE32
not his knee
The reason they let Pat get away with so much is that he and Rachel I think guenuinely like each other. Usually when I see them debate, it's spirited, but friendy. And, I'm gonna say it, it's usually pretty intellgient on both sides. I've actually admired Pat's political instincts and honesty over the years, but this was not one of his finer appearances. I think what Pat was trying to say was a legitimate point: That Sotomeyer would likely have NOT been the nominee were she not an Hispanic woman, and there's something fundamentally unfair about that. And I think he means republicans could get some political mileage out of opposing "reverse racism", or the two-wrongs-to-make-a-right approach to racial "equality", a point that I actually agree with. But comments like "white folks built this country" are rediculously racist and ignorant, and he embarassed himself tonight. But I actually hope he and Rachel keep debating.
Gives me the smallest glimmer of hope for a monolithic media system based on the ratings grab. The reality television influence on the 'news' is so rampant that it's almost shocking to see someone approach a difference of opinion like this with even a modicum of civility.
When rationality is shocking, you know we're in some serious trouble.
Please get rid of the Crossfire model! Do we need Jon Stewart to make appearances on all the 24 hour news channels until this idiocy is destroyed?
Oh well, time to get back to our coverage of Michael Jackson, Jon & Kate, and the cat fashion shows......
Sigh
He's obviously full of shit.
Maddow and Buchanan are colleagues on MSNBC and that fact certainly influences how they interact.
Buchanan's bigotry is glaringly obvious in this clip. Anyone who doesn't see it might want to examine their own biases.
"Buchanan's bigotry is glaringly obvious in this clip. Anyone who doesn't see it might want to examine their own biases."
Baw...
funny cause you're using your own bias to judge him. if the only thing you've ever seen of pat was this clip, Rachel comes off looking foolish and blind (although, no secret I'm not a rachel fan but I'm even less of a pat fan). I will certainly defer that rachel is the more sensible of the two nearly all of the time but she clearly lost this round.
late,
QSE32
Uh Pat? The track team analogy is epic fail, dude. You aren't surprised if the entire US Track Team is black because, you know, THOSE people sure can run. That's what you're saying, racist asshole!
the faster the GOP sinks.
Am 61 yrs old white woman. I grew up with all races living on the military bases across the world and country. I can't stand when I hear people spew the racist attitude. When GIs are in the military and go off to war and die for all of us their blood is red just like everyoneelse. I remember once when my husband and I went to an Air Force for his assignment I had applied for a civil service job that I was very qualified for. Now there was this other hispanic girl who had just got out of the military but she had no civil service experience. Well this hispanic girl got the job over me and I got the temporary job that was across the hall. We became friends. She was really strange. After working across offices and sharing lunch times together she told me that the reason why I didn't get her job was that her boss pick her because he was having a problem with a hispanic man. He wanted to prove that he wasn't a racist. Well I ended up talking to my boss about it and he told me it was true. I didn't do anything about it. Funny thing in the end he had more trouble with her than he bargined for. In the end we were moved to any another assignment. That was the stranges assignment we had ever been on.
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