Rachel Maddow Show: Republicans Blaming the Workers for the Problems at GM, Ford and Chrysler
By Heather Wednesday Nov 26, 2008 4:30pm
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Rachel Maddow talks to Ron Gettlefinger from the UAW about the demonization of union workers and the attempt by the right to blame the auto workers for the problems at GM, Ford and Chrysler. The chattering class on cable news has done its best to tout the Republican party line and scare everyone to death about the dangers of unionization when unions are our last front in trying to prevent a complete race to the bottom in this country, and Rachel's right, it is class warfare. The ones who have been winning that war are desperate to maintain the status quo. Look for this fight to get louder and uglier if they try to get the Employee Free Choice Act through the Congress again.
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Yeah, how dare they want their growling stomachs not to overwhelm the noise of their equipment!!!
Given an opportunity to make in roads with Union members the RNC instead throws them under the bus, displaying once again the RNC's spectacular lack of concern for anyone who fails to be a CEO or multi-millionaire. Well, I guess you can at least call em consistent. Consistently stupid.
The RNC doesn't give a damn about union voters. They do respect the unions GOTV power. So, They are out to break the unions. It's that simple. And it won't be stupid if they succeed.
Unfortunately, Mr. Gettlefinger is a ridiculously piss poor spokesman for the UAW.
Every single person I have heard speaking in favor of the unions has been shitty at combating lies and smears. None have called bullshit on that $70 an hour salary crap, none have discussed the concessions taken by union workers over the last 15 years, none have addressed bringing new hires into carmakers at less of a wage than would allow them to purchase the same vehicles, or any discussion of why their ~$30.00 hourly wage isn't outrageous.
They are reacting to the frame, and they are doing so poorly.
Why doesn't the representative address the wages, benefits and the pensions and how they effect the bottom line? They need to explain why their workers deserve what they have and what they have sacrificed in the past to help the corporations in dollars and benefits.
the uaw leadership is together with the big 3 leadership on many aspects. the workers get left out in the cold because of union corruption... this guy is no more than a corporate tool. i am all for workers uniting, but the uaw has to go and this video is a great exxample of why... the workers need to own the companies they work for... anything less and power and coruption result...
Guess what, it is possible (and correct!) to support the right to organize as well as oppose Taft-Hartley, "right to work" states, and other union-busting policies AND YET properly label some unions as BAD unions. It's true: being for unions as a movement and institution does not mean blanket support for every one of them. The most pro capitalism types are proud when the market punishes shortsighted and inefficient, unadaptable business. Only crony capitalism folks support aid to Congressionally-wired corporations. Just because anti-union folks are using this crisis as an opportunity to submarine the UAW once and for all does not mean we should have any respect for the UAW and the majority of its membership.
Some nostalgically see the UAW as resembling their 1930s heroic and bloodied ancestor fighting Henry Ford and the national guard troops. But the UAW two decades later broke with the AFL-CIO, just like the corrupt Teamsters. They partnered with the auto makers to block legislation that could have saved the planet (it is very possible that we're past the point of no return in global climate) as well as delaying adoption of new technology, safety, mpg, productivity, you name it. They were enablers in giving away our auto industry to the Japanese despite having the highest barriers to new entry of any industry, hands down. We were just following orders doesn't wash for the most powerful union on earth in an industry that averaged 2 and 3 times the manufacturing average rate of return for 50 years!
The binary thinking that it's EITHER all management's fault OR all the union's fault is so patently stupid it's ridiculous.
Management of course bears greater responsibility, because regardless of what the union does or doesn't do, they're responsible for steering the ship. But the reality is that both management and unions were acting in short-term, not long-term, self-interest. Over the long-term, that tends to make you non-competitive.
Even in the real estate crisis, one can argue that many irresponsible and greedy borrowers share some blame. But in this case, you're mostly talking about individuals dealing with a complex instrument unrelated to their own industries. Unions, like the management, are (or should be) experts in the auto industry. Someone said I'm "blaming the cows for bleeding on the slaughterhouse floor". Wow. The analogy is so specious as to make me embarrassed for the clueless fuckhead, and insulting to unions. Are they saying that union members are as stupid as cows? That they had no bargaining power as to their own fate?
I knew it all along. Bastards wanting a decent working wage.
Eating and keeping a roof over one's head is soooooo yesterday.
Fuck. I wish Yellowbook could have gotten a bailout from the government. Then maybe I'd still have the job I lost at the beginning of this month.
I am so very sorry to hear that. Truly I am.
Rachel gets the message, but Getelfinger doesn't seem to. He can't just align the Union with the Big 3.
He's got to systematically address the charges made against the Union. Furthermore, the UAW has money, they need to spend some of it on a direct campaign to debunk the falsehoods and misconceptions. They need to be as smart and as aggressive about it as their opponents are. And I sure don't see it here (the UAW spokesman from Lansing, Michigan is much better about doing this, by the way).
Isn't the whole reason unions exist is because corporations have proved themselves to be constantly untrustworthy, neglectful, etc. towards their employees? I'm not saying that all unions are honest, but who caused them to be created? Right now, the problem is with management, not labor.
but never blame the crooks at the top
Most people know there's enough blame to go around.
The president of Toyota makes $1 million a year while the company earns $5 billion in profits ($10 billion a couple years ago).
Wagoner makes, what, $10 million or so? While his company loses $10 billion? Something is wrong with this picture.
Still, unions are far from blameless, and this is one of those cases where the simplistic left-right dichotomy drives me batshit. It's like arguing whether Uncle
JoeJack had a heart attack because he smoked or because he weighed 350 fucking pounds.Ford has agreed to contribute $15.4 billion to secure retiree health care for current and future UAW retirees for years to come, including $13.2 billion to establish a Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA). Total economic gains from the proposed agreement add up to $12,904 for a typical Ford assembler, based on a standard 2,080-hour year and 10 percent overtime. That figure includes the $3,000 settlement bonus, performance bonuses of 3 percent, 4 percent, and 3 percent, and projected cost-of-living adjustments, after diversions.....Ford 2007 contract
Total economic gains from the proposed agreement add up to $13,056 for a typical GM assembler, based on a standard, 2,080-hour year and 10 percent overtime. That figure includes the $3,000 settlement bonus; performance bonuses of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3 percent, and projected cost-of-living adjustments, after diversions....GMC contract..Assembler wage $28.12/hour
Between 2003 and 2006, the wages of a typical UAW assembler have grown at about the same rate as wages in the private sector as a whole – roughly 9 percent. UAW website http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php
The CEOs of Chrysler Group, Ford and GM earned a combined total of $24.5 million in salaries, bonuses and other compensation in 2006...same website
Seems to me BOTH management AND workers are the problem. BOTH are taking out more money than the almost bankrupt corporations can afford.
That figure is totally low ball wagoneer or what ever ceo for gm makes over 14 mil on his own the 24.5 is prolly just for GM
is NEVER correct.
You really have to consider the source when you read his stuff. It's just never accurate (and is usually inflammatory about how stupid we American's are).
I guess then that the fake support for the autoworkers that you spiel is just bullshit then? The info is from the United Auto Worker's own website. And yes, sometimes YOU are stupid.
It seems to me that the auto companies, along with the rest of Corporate America, have inflicted a good portion of their current pain upon themselves, by means of their intractable position on universal healthcare. They have, en bloc, uniformly and consistently fought tooth and nail against universal healthcare ever since...forever. They have worked dilligently and single-mindedly to ensure that healthcare in this country be reduced to a privileged commodity. By supporting a social system in which healthcare is a privileged commodity, they assure that there will always be millions-upon-millions who cannot achieve the means to gain access to it. They have made sure that healthcare is rationed only to those with means.
They then set themselves up as providers of society's principal means to gain access to this rationed privilege, by offering health insurance as an employee benefit: Corporate America installed itself as the nation's de facto arbiter of who does and who doesn't get healthcare. On establishing that social arrangement, they have ensured that, for most Americans, if you don't have a job with an employer who offers healthcare, you do without. Where else are you going to go? Nowhere.
Corporate America has created this social arrangement in order to grant themselves the power to create lasting dependencies; it's a chain they have forged and applied specifically for the purpose of keeping their chattels from escaping. And, of course, the ever-present existence of 45-50 million uninsured, who have the misfortune of not being employed by a corporation or business that provides the privileged commodity of healthcare insurance, creates just the perfect background of fear to keep the corporate employee with the wandering eye from leaving a job she or he basically hates. There's just no substitute for a guts-deep fear of unceratinty and financial ruin to keep a chattel captive and obedient.
But, enter the global market place, where these corporations have to compete against companies from nations wherein healthcare is universally available, and whose business interests do not have to sustain those high costs. The American corporations instantly sustain a significant competitive disadvantage. It costs how many thousands of dollars per employee to provide health, dental and eye insurance? Those costs get included in every product they try to sell.
Yet, Corporate America continues their fight to the death to oppose any and all universal healthcare measures. They just can't, for any reason, be persuaded to give up their power to hold and compel obedience from their chattels. If even one of these corporate CEO's had the brains God gave a fruitfly, they would be screaming bloody murder for immediate passage of universal healthcare, alá John Conyers' HR-676 or the like.
IMO, when CEO's are too stupid or so besotted with lust for power that they can no longer recognize their own self-interest, it's long past time to put them to work flipping burgers.
Makes perfect sense in a way. First, the simian, warmongering fuckhead tries to dupe the teeming unwashed into sinking their social security contributions into the biggest lottery/shell game in the universe -- a.k.a. Wall street; second, the right's MSM minions are given the "talking points" to fill the public airwaves with noise and disinformation and then, for the coup-de-grace, the same failed elites (congresspersons, senators, "captains of industry") and their sycophantic thugs with their ideological and self-serving jackboots make the working class out to be the source of the meltdown. Unbelievable.
P.S. Heather, "done it's best to tout" should read "done its best to tout". Language (semantics and syntax) is important. If you don't agree, try to revise the wording of a sales contract or mortgage agreement to your liking and see what happens.
[This isn't a contract. For those of you with the need to correct spelling and punctuation, become a proofreader or an English teacher. It's ok to point out typos, but don't speak down to our authors. Manners (the act of being polite) are important. If you don't think so, try a stunt like this on the Bill Maher forum and see what happens. Hint: You'll be shown the door posthaste and immediately-Sitemonitor]
I wonder when the union members are going to get on THEIR private jets and go to DC with their hands out?
I'll tell you when.
When pigs sprout wings.
When Bush and Cheney are getting their lethal injections.
That's when.
Representative Kirk and his gang always blame the workers. How dare anyone earn a decent wage? Why should anybody want more money, vacation, or benefits? What the Republicans want is workers too tired to compain but too poor not to keep working until they drop. I grew up in a union house, went to college and professional school because of my dad's union and will support unions and the right to unionize until I die. If we don't bail out the automobile industry, we are doomed!
and he is the biggest Bushlicker out there. He is a liar extraordinaire and I have emailed him saying so. I got some bullshit email from him which was all lies. Of course, for the majority of people who don't pay attention, it sounded just lovely.
I LOATHE Kirk and was sorely disappointed that Seals didn't kick his sorry gooper ass.
I just did a search to find out how much Japanese auto workers get paid. According to Fox News, UAW workers get $72 per hour, while non-union Japanese get $44 per hour.
The only problem with that is, everybody here knows that the actual average salary US auto workers get is $28 per hour. And that $72 includes health care, retirement and LEGACY costs that have nothing to do with actual salary.
In other words, Japanese workers are much more highly compensated. In fact, if you take away the legacy costs, THEY'RE STILL MAKING MORE.
First off, we are talking about AMERICAN workers, not Japanese workers. Do you think Toyota and Honda import assembly line workers from Japan??? And the $44 includes benefits, just like the Detroit 3 number. The main difference is that Detroit 3 are responsible for their employees' health costs, even after retirement. The best way to help make them become more competitive is universal health care.
But I'm not confident that even that will do the trick.
The Detroit 3 have not made a profit from passenger cars since the 1980's.
The only way they can turn a profit is to make the gas-guzzling trucks and SUV's that are ruining our planet. We'd be better off giving the money to Tesla and other lean, innovative companies.
Yup, you've gotta admit it! Them workers are complicit in guilt
for making those crappy cars and sending 'em out to America to
be sold to the gullible.
Benedict Arnold in overalls.
In the second sentence of this post, you used "it's", when you should have used "its". Think of it as if you were referring to a person instead of "the chattering class". You would say "his" or "her", so it's "its", not "it's".
Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.
I have been a union member all my life. I have never ever heard of someone geting 120 Vacation days unless they never took them for thier entire career and even then most contracts disallow carrying over vacation days. IS THERE ANY ONE OUT THERE GETTINNG 4 MONTHS VACATION.
I'm a aerospace worker represented by the UAW (788). I've got 26 yrs seniority and receive 160 hrs vacation and 40 hrs personal time a year.
Anybody with any brains can go to uaw.org and look at the current GM contract. http://www.uaw.org/contracts/07/gm/gm02.php.
A assembler who is topped out is making $28.29/hr.
Olbermann had a piece tonight about where that $70.00 figure came from. I hope C&L posts it tomorrow.
I am going to post it.
I got in a fight with my sister about this last night. I hung up on her snotty arse.
If the UAW thinks a 21 MPG Chevy Tahoe hybrid is what it takes to combat climate change, we're screwed.
nice try though...
I absolutely adore Rachel...could you imagine what she is like off the air? Wish I knew.
Havein this guy gettlefinger tryin to convince anyone of anything is like havein charles manson tryin to convince ppl that he's not nuts or dennis miller that he's funny
Union members are their own worst enemy. Unions make people lazy. It is not a myth, I've seen it. When people feel they have protection from being fired, they grumble and rationalize their tendency toward laziness. Unions have undermined the American dream. It used to be, work hard and save money, and down the road a person will be well off. Now the dream is a job making the most money for the least amount of effort. There is no incentive to a solid work ethic if everyone is afforded the same opportunity for a pay raise regardless of merit.
Unions have a place, but they go too far. They are necessary because the tendency is for companies to exploit the workers. Unions reverse that to a certain extent and exploit the companies they work for. The blame doesn't rest solely with the workers, but at least some of it does. I know I will get lambasted KOSlike for this, but I refuse to keep my critical thinking in check.
Not true. Anyone can be fired from any job if they screw up.
I'm particularly disgusted with Neocon Propaganda Radio's treatment of the Big three's troubles. They talk about bankruptcy being a good thing because, "..it would allow the Big Three to escape their legacy burdens". This is their code word for defaulting on all of their pension, healthcare and union contract obligations. Ever notice how skillful and practiced neocons, conservatives and other sociopaths without conscience are at crafting euphanisms that provide cover for there work of fucking over and harming people? In this case, throwing pensioners into the poor house, pulling the healthcare rug out from underneath them and taking away a living wage is merely an innocent but savvy act of "escaping legacy burdens". And, typical of NPR in the last several years, their coverage of the story has been completely one-sided. They're not even trying to inform anymore. A pure manipulation move.
The only difference between NPR and FOX is that they are slightly more polished in the way they go about deploying their lies, deceptions and attempts at manipulation. I do think that they are more effective propagandists than the fools at FOX, however, because they still retain a remnant of credibility among those who haven't noticed that they stopped doing journalism more than a decade ago.
Mr. Obama so needs to make it one of his highest priorities to reform the FCC. He needs to shake up the Corporation for Public Broadcasting while he's at it.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/11/...
According to this, the $70/hr "myth" includes all the benefits figured in. Still, the article has a point, who would have guessed these people would be living so long? I would suspend judgment though until I saw hard numbers on just how many retirees are using GM's resources.
"GM spends an average $72 an hour on labor, including wages, health benefits and pensions."
OK, I know the unions have not had as much to do with GMs current problems but to point to the $60,000 Chevy Tahoe that gets 30 mpg highway as a "model" green car is retarded.
Has anyone calculated what the politician's hourly rate is including salary, benefits and pension? How about doing the same calculations for the mob of bandits from Wall St.?
Come on sheeple... they're stealing you blind!
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