Orrin Hatch Defends Torture While John Kerry Sits on His Hands
I'm not sure what's more infuriating here, listening to Orrin Hatch pretend he doesn't know full well that what was done to the prisoners in our custody was torture, or John Kerry defending the Obama administration's decision not to go after the ones at the top who ordered it, and then smile and nod politely while Hatch spins.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK. Let me move to another issue that came up earlier this week. The attorney general decided to investigate possible CIA abuses in the prisoner interrogation cases.
And Vice President Cheney this morning has blasted that decision by the attorney general.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: The approach of the Obama administration should be to come to those people who were involved in that policy and say, how did you do it? What were the keys to keeping the country safe over that period of time?
Instead, they're out there now threatening to disbar the lawyers who gave us the legal opinions, threatening, contrary to what the president originally said, they were going to go out and investigate the CIA personnel who carried out those investigations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: He called it an outrageous and possibly dangerous act.
KERRY: Well, Dick Cheney has shown through the years, frankly, a disrespect for the Constitution, for sharing of information with Congress, respect for the law, and I'm not surprised that he is upset about this.
The Obama administration has no intention -- I think the president himself has been unbelievably bending in the direction of trying to be careful about what happens to national security, protecting our national security interests, being very sensitive about the CIA's prerogatives and needs and so forth.
And in fact, I think there is a little bit of a tension between the White House itself and the lawyers in the Justice Department as they see the law and as what their obligation is.
And in a sense, that's good. That's appropriate, because it shows that we have an attorney general who is not pursuing a political agenda, but who is doing what he believes the law requires him to do.
And we have an administration, on the other hand, that is balancing some of those other interests.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The vice president also said that he believes that CIA officials who went outside the bounds of the guidelines they were given were justified. Do you agree with that?
HATCH: There is a real question whether they went outside of the bounds that they were given at the time. Look, I -- as the longest- serving person in the Senate Intelligence Committee, I've got to tell you, we don't want to cripple our ability to be able, in very crucial times, to get the information we've got to have to save our country and to protect our people.
I think what Dick Cheney is arguing for -- and look, how can anybody argue that Cheney has been a great asset to the country in so many ways? He is a tough guy, there is no question. He differs from the so-called progressives in the Congress.
And I really question, after all of the investigations were done, some prosecutions that were waged, and most of this material was decided not to go forward, to now go forward with this, I really question whether the attorney general is doing what is right.
And look, the attorneys, maybe you can question the opinions, but they were sincere opinions. I know the attorneys involved. They were wonderful, wonderful...
(CROSSTALK)
HATCH: ... lawyers who...
STEPHANOPOULOS: ... they're not going to be investigating that part.
HATCH: Well, they shouldn't investigate that part. And nor should they be prosecuting people who acted under good faith following advice of the lawyers in the department.
So, you know, and what they're doing is crippling the CIA where they're going to be unwilling to really take the risks that have to be taken during really crucial times.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Afraid that's all we have time for today. Gentlemen, thank you both very much for coming in this morning.
KERRY: Thanks, good to be with you, George.
HATCH: It's nice to be with you, George.
KERRY: Thank you.
I guess it's too much to ask that George Stephanopoulos might ask either of them about Congress' initial reaction to seeing the photos from Abu Ghraib. 'Hellish' torture images shock US lawmakers:
Washington - Members of the United States congress saw new images of violence and sexual humiliation from a US-run Iraqi prison on Wednesday in a closed viewing one lawmaker likened to a descent into "the wings of hell".
Lawmakers said images showed inmates apparently being coerced to commit sodomy, wounds possibly from dog bites, a number of dead bodies, and examples of "sadistic torture" and "sexual humiliation."
Some top Republicans urged that the still pictures and video not be released publicly, saying they could endanger US forces overseas.
'What we saw is appalling'
"What we saw is appalling. It is consistent with the photos that you've seen in the press to date. They go beyond that in many ways in terms of the various activities that are depicted," said Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican.
"There were some awful scenes. It felt like you were descending into one of the wings of hell and sadly it was our own creation," said Senator Richard Durbin, an Illinois Democrat. "And when you think of the sadism, the violence, the sexual humiliation, after a while you just turn away, you just can't take it any more."
"I still cannot believe that this happened without the knowledge of those at higher levels," Durbin added.
Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld warned last week the pictures could worsen a scandal that ignited international outrage and shook US global prestige as the United States seeks to stabilise Iraq.
Senators and members of the House of Representatives had a chance over several hours to look at about 1 600 images in separate secure rooms in a presentation conducted by the Pentagon, which kept custody of the material.
" ... we have an attorney general who is not pursuing a political agenda, but who is doing what he believes the law requires him to do.
And we have an administration, on the other hand, that is balancing some of those other interests."
In other words, we have an administration that is ignoring what the law requires.
What Kerry is saying is that the Justice Department is doing what they should do under the law. They are investigating what happened - as they should. The Justice Department, unlike Bush's, is supposed to not pursue a political agenda. Kerry himself has repeatedly said that we need to get to the truth.
Kerry neatly avoids attacking the Obama administration in the second sentence. It is true that the President has to consider other interests - but, in nominating his AG, Obama may have set the stage for terror to be investigated without his involvement - which is better than it becoming a political circus.
What is as important is that the Obama administration has taken steps to say these actions are not acceptable going forward.
Kerry is useless as are most of the traitorous DLC.
really don't love America all that much.
"The deal has to be negotiated in the real world, not on some idealized Aristotelian plane. We understand that. A 100-percent deal may be impossible."
Famous "Reality Based" Commentator
People who commit Treason are not Americans which believe in our constitution and laws..
People who read news with the real facts are informed enough to make that statement.
A person would have to be an idiot at this point not to know that the Bush/Cheney administration destroy our constitution and bill of rights while breaking every law we have.... Hell they have confessed on the public news media of their high crimes...
None
seems like little Ricky is lost and thought this was a rightwingnutter site, and thanks.
The fact is Kerry strongly condemned Cheney here and has often spoken very strongly against torture and the many other ways the Bush administration worked against the Constitution.
His dissent speech, given at Faneuil hall on April 22, 2006 on the 35th anniversary of his brave testimony before the SFRC in 1971 is one example and he spoke of it in his excellent 2008 convention speech, which the NYT called the best non acceptance speech at a Democratic convention in two decades.
Kerry has not had anything to do with the DLC since at least 2004. He was not named by Al From in 2005 as one of the possible DLC Presidential candidates, when Clinton, Warner, Bayh and Vilsack all were. Kerry was then polling higher than all but Clinton of the ones named. He also did not attend any of there conferences.
Not to mention, Kerry led on Kerry/Feingold - against the DLC position - and Kerry and Kennedy tried to filibuster Alito - against their wishes.
Kerry's answer here was a very strong condemnation of Cheney and a very good supportive comment backing Holder's investigation, without attacking the President. He was given no chance to respond after Hatch's comments.
more often than not, the rightwinger will get the last word.
But that cannot be misconstrued as if Kerry "sat on his hands". This is not Jerry Springer, people have their turn to talk, so it's abusive and irresponsible for someone to manipulate the facts.
Sorry but Kerry sat on his hands heather is 100% correct. Kerry should of interrupted or say insisted on getting something else in. Other democrats have started to do just such things on these shows when it's clear they are being run over. It’s clear by looking at Kerry he knew what was going on Hatch was running out the time to stop kerry from talking. Kerry sat on his hands while Hatch lied and stalled over and over again .
Your opinion that Kerry should be rude and interrupt other people cannot be manipulated as innaction. Maybe you want a politician who talks over others, who screams, interrupts and so on, but it has nothing to do with Kerry not standing for what be believes in. Again, maybe you enjoy screaming and shouting in politics, so do the town hall wackos, but that's not his job description. Next time you go to a speech, bring in a decibel meter and let it choose a candidate for you.
Between being rude and refuseing to allow person or person from walking all over you. Kerry let Hatch and Stephanopoulos walk all over him .
Kerry condemned Cheney as disrespecting the law and the Constitution. This is an incredibly strong charge that Hatch didn't dispel. Hatch is the one who sounds like he is trying to make excuses.
Kerry's elegant answer is far more compelling than the Hatch's answer rambling over several subjects. Kerry is (and looks like he is) speaking the truth and he has right on his side - people want non-political enforcement in the Justice Department and they understand that, for that reason, the President may have to distance himself. Hatch's rambling sounded to me like making excuses and going off on tangents. (Hatch looks like he is spinning)
Actually, I agree with nyguy. I think Kerry said exactly what he needed to say and nothing more. He really doesn't need to say anything in my opinon because Cheney is saying it all for him.
Cheney's arguement that an investigation into any illegal activities the CIA may have conducted will some how hamper their efforts doesn't hold water. The CIA's illegal actions (if any) would automatically go back to the proper means of conduct if they thought a investigation was imminent. Thats pretty much common sense.
Furthermore, by now eveyone knows how the Bush Administration operates. The more grave the threat to national security, the bigger the crime or lie is that they are trying to cover up.
Kerry played his role well in my opinion. If he was to forceful he may have gave the impression that the Obama Administration has nothing and is carrying out a witch hunt. Cheney on the other hand, gives the clear impression that he is hiding something.
They deleted my original comment when I criticized the original poster for manipulation of facts. Mr. Amato, I need to know if it's your position that my original post should have been deleted, so I can decide if this blog is really for me. If you haven't seen my post, please let me know so I can email to you. This is getting really pathetic.
Kerry sat on his hands as he did in the 2004 election and let Bush steal it...
Gore let the republican take the 2000 election..
The democrats have no d... backbone at all.
Reid is the height of a wet noodle... He is the worst democrat we have ever had in charge of the Senate..
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How you feel is not a fact, it's an opinion. I saw people taking turns to talk like in a civilized manner, regardless of personal feelings.
..............Gore and Kerry are ruled by Rahmie the Zionist DLC, who wouldn't 'support' Gore's challenge. Without DLC and the whole Democratic machine behind him, it was useless to do otherwise.
The fact is the Republicans stole Ohio through means that did not leave votes to count. The RFK jr analysis estimates the number of votes lost to suppression caused by not placing adequate voting machines in democratic areas. There were people who could not spend 4 plus hours - in the rain - in line to vote. It is impressive how many did.
The same team that told Gore to challenge was in Boston and they told Kerry there were too few outstanding provisional ballots to change the result - and when they were counted - they were still 59,000 short.
There has been a Democratic governor and Secretary of state for 2 and a half years - they have not found proof that the election was stolen.
Kerry did an incredible job making it even close when Gallup, the week before the election still showed 59% answering the country was doing either fairly well or very well. That was after the MSM did not even cover the energy and size of the huge record breaking Kerry rallies and condoned character assassinations of both John and Teresa Kerry.
That would be unseemly, don't you know. This is why we lose every argument, and why the GOP thinks it can say anything at all, regardless of the facts. And the GOP is right.
Vote their a.. out of office and elect democrats with character and a backbone things will stay the same... The republicans only need ONE republicans in the house and ONE republicans in the Senate and democrats loss..
I do not see why democrats are not frosting at the mouth to kick Obama and Emanuel in the A.. to start fighting for the promises Obama promised on the campaign trail..
If Obama keeps this war going in the middle east , does not renegotiate the free trade bill and cut the tax breaks Bush gave to the wealthy 10% or Americans we are going to sink to the pits of hell.
The is no way in h... that American's economy can stop it's downward sprial unless American workers get jobs and our government get more money to run our country on..
Bush has proven as he has with his ever business adventure that he destroys every thing he puts his hands on....
None
How exactly do we 'vote out' the DLC and Rahmie???? With them torpedoing every 'real' Democrate with PUKIE LITE's like Spector, LIEberman before he left, DLC was meant to make Democrates 'Business Friendly' ...........what they really meant was to make the Democratic party issue-less, no unions, no choice for Women, etc.
Next step we are already seeing with Arlen Spector GAG!!! Take over the legitimacy of the Democratic party with lots of PUKIES 'converting' It makes me sick!!!! Glad I left USofBLOODYISRAEL.
Kerry won that argument hands down. It is Hatch, who is agitated and skipping from one thing to another.
Not to mention, it is because of his good manners that Kerry has been able to make stronger charges than others and have then listened to - rather than taken as angry outcries. Here, he is NEVER challenged in his point blank statement that Cheney does not respect the Constitution or the law.
In 2004, the far left said he didn't attack - even as he was emotionally speaking of Bush's administration not guarding the known ammo dumps for months, allowing them to be the source for the ieds that were "killing and maiming our kids". That is accusing them of negligence that let to the death of our soldiers.
I have seen Kerry interrupt and do it well - in 2008, he did it often in the general election as a surrogate for Obama.
Here, Hatch hung himself - and Kerry didn't stop him. Kerry already had strongly backed Holder's intent to investigate as non-political. Kerry has been on record since the 1970s on the importance of things like the Geneva Convention - but because of morality and because of law. For Kerry to address this politically would have diffused his having defined Holder's action as the high road, right thing to do.
But they are all paid by the same corporate masters!
It's okay to break the law.
It's okay to torture people.
It's okay to hold people without due process for as long as they want to hold you.
That's what John Yoo told the White House.
And Alberto (Fredo)Gonzales went along with it.
The entire Bush administration tried to turn this country into a damned banana republic...and now the apologists are coming out of the woodwork.
Quelle suprise!
The Onion puts the "torture debate" into it's proper context:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/is_usin...
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
..the minotaur always being made to be the scapegoat for illegal torture practices.
go after the onion for distorting the news and taking the argument way out of context
Isn't there a DEM with gonads left? We all know Obama was neutered... he has shown little or no balls since taking office. Also, I already knew Kerry was a pussy because he didn't even defend himself against the friggin Swiftboat asses, but really.. isn't there at least one DEM with balls between his legs?
Barney Frank has balls of steel. That's why you don't see him on these shows - because he'd wipe the floor with the likes of Hatch.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Barney Frank is a treasure and so is Dennis Kucinich.
Our newest hero.
Howard Dean and Bernie Sanders,
None
Especially because the DLC keeps kicking him to the curb. That's the clue..........whoever the DLC likes is a PUSSY!!!! Look at what they have done to O-bought-ma!! It's a horror!! Look at what they did to Hilly. Once she had credibiliy!!! Now just a whore. Feingold from Wisc. NOT Feinstein the PUKIE,
Huh!?!
The President of the United States has the power to disbar attorneys?!
Who knew?
"In theory theory and practice are alike. In practice they are very different."
when senators and representatives have been
in their prized postitions too too long, they
treat them like tenure at a college and lose
all sting as effective or moral legislators.
it's time that new much lower term limits
be placed on all of them so as to reduce the
the financial kidnapping of our elected representatives.
the bastards now in congress only serve special
interests and NOT THE PUBLIC who actually voted
for them.
if they want to be whores with long wet tongues
for their corporate asses, then it's time to
cut out their tongues and fill the potholes in
the constitution they are responsible for.
John Kerry lost any respect I had for him the day he stood by and let that kid get tasered at his event. That was fucked up.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
He lost me when he conceded so quickly after the 2004 election. I got a funny gut feeling that he was in on it somehow...
Kerry lost me when he voted for the Iraq war.
Then he lost me during the debates when he couldn't say anything against Bush.
Then he lost me when he started yammering about how great his kids and the Bush twins get along...
As "oldpro" - a person who posts on Talkleft - said so eloquently, "Kerry makes my skin crawl".
An aside -- It was really weird at the 2004 convention, Mrs. Kerry got up to talk and spent about a thousand million years talking about her first husband, Mr. Heinz. Holy Ketchup, Batman.
Have the democrats turn their a.. and run from the republicans and their lies , deceit and criminal crimes..
We have a government now which is no different than that of ,, before the revolutionary war.
That war was fought so Americans citizens could run the government and OUR lives instead of being told what we could say , do or have...
What I do not understand is why we are NOT NOW selecting candidate which WE want instead of the A.. holes which are in office now..
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Kerry stopped the police from ejecting him when he first acted out of turn and allowed him to ask a question. When Meyers took it too far, it was the University and their police who decided to eject him to keep him from hijacking their event.
The fact is this was intended by Meyers and his friends to be a disruption that they captured on film. I think the police went too far, but when the police moved to remove him and he fought them, Senator Kerry did not have the right or ability to stop them. They were far away from Kerry, who was calming the crowd and answering the question, when they tasered him.
Blame the police - and blame Meyer for his actions. Any other politician would likely have let the police remove him at the beginning.
Sounds like his presidential campaign.
a fair hearing from George S. He sold out to ABC and GE a long time ago. Far as Kerry goes... I have learned NOT to expect much from him either.
..to be bored into a coma any time John Kerry begins to expound upon anything. He's a human sleeping pill.
Kerry and Edwards.
What a ticket.
Ain't that the truth!
abc is owned by disney. ge owns nbc, those sellouts were/are russert, tweety, mrs. greenspan, dancin dave gregory, chuck todd, pat buchanan, joe and mika scarborough. Who passed the jack welch test. All the asshats on cnbc/msnbc except Dylan Ratigan, Carlos Watson, David Schuster and Big Ed, Lawrence O Donnell, KO and Rachel.
Regarding kerry, I always thought he threw the election. He knew the war was a mess and he had no real way out, and was scared by a republican congress. He turned out to be a total pussy.
.
for a former vice president being given a weekly platform to heckle and criticize a new administration? Hasn't Cheney already made more public appearances since Obama became President than he did in his 8 years as vice president?
My sense is that Cheney is desperately trying to pull the Bush-Cheney legacy from the dungheap of history, using a barrage of revisionist, unsubstantiated, nonsense arguments. I guess that's one way to go about it.
somewhere in the background, or is he taking Bush's side in the Cheney v. Bush match?
they have his paw marks all over them.
Cheney is still cheerleading for the neocons. Boulton and Kristol are at it too.
Project for a New American Century
Elliott Abrams
Gary Bauer
William J. Bennett
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
Eliot A. Cohen
Midge Decter
Paula Dobriansky
Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg
Francis Fukuyama
Frank Gaffney
Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan
Zalmay Khalilzad
I. Lewis Libby
Norman Podhoretz
Dan Quayle
Peter W. Rodman
Stephen P. Rosen
Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld
Vin Weber
George Weigel
Paul Wolfowitz
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementof...
or did he serve the tea and crumpets during meetings.
..he had nothing to do with composing or proofreading the PNAC document, otherwise, there would have been typos all over the damned thing.
I don't think Cheney is concerned about the CIA or any so called dangers at all. It doesn't take much to change a lower level employee's actions especially if those actions are illegal and are carried out on their own. Just the suggestion of an inpending investigation such as the one we are seeing here may be enough to turn those lower level employees around. They know will be caught if they continue and if they value thier positions they will stop before that occurs.
It is quite a different matter though when those lower level employees are being ordered to carry out those illegal actions by someone higher up. That is what Cheney is concerned about because he is the one that gave those orders. Cheney is practicing the age old CYA and nothing more.
There are two sides of a one coin party in DC. One side works for the executives of capitalism, the other for the workers of capitalism, both part of an undemocratic corrupt class economy. Heads and tails, tails loses. Kerry is tails.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
You're wrong. They both work for the corporations who own and run this country.
.. to get votes Dems will demagogue to the working class and of course sell out to the corporatocracy once in their seat of power. Interesting post at Think Progress puts a more positive spin on the same newscast with Kerry.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
They sold out years ago.
You're wrong. They both work for the corporations who own and run this country.
You're wrong. They both work for the corporations who own and
runruin this country.Did you forget to insert an "i" in run?
.
"I think what Dick Cheney is arguing for -- and look, how can anybody argue that Cheney has been a great asset to the country in so many ways? He is a tough guy, there is no question. He differs from the so-called progressives in the Congress."
Um,right Orrin..how can anyone argue that.
Nice to see you admit that obvious fact.
Unless of course you misspoke?Nah..you didn't misspeak.
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
other than "he kept us safe."
you will be sharing a bench in in the deepest depths of hell with the dick.
me-oww!
but it's a crime if anyone else does it...
After all, America is the world's beacon of freedom- in fact, ONLY America has freedom, so by torturing people, we are in fact protecting freedom...
If American troops are captured, our having tortured iraqis and Afgans will help assure that US POWs will NOT be tortured...
Yeah, yeah, that's right...
When our guys get tortured it is used to justify having gone to war. The chickenhawks who got us into this don't care about human beings one way or the other.
Both men have been brought together through the death Teddy. I thought Hatch's comments about Ted were very heart-felt and both were obviously great friends. I'll give him a week off, but after that, he's just another neoconic piece of republican scum.
LimpBalls
Here's a guy who allowed the Republicans to smear him mercilessly, humiliate everything he stood for and make jokes out of his service to the country sitting calmly next to one of the top dirty, slimeballs who did that.
Now that takes a special kind of meek, spineless, inner calm that Democrats have perfected.
He pointed out the independence of the AG office and he stood up for the Constitution. He called cheney a lawbreaker.
ABC, NBC, AND CBS, AND FOX AND MSNBC, AND CNN, YOU NAME IT, ALWAYS
give the time and the unchallenged non interrupted TV space to the evil side. We all know that.
Kerry is not on top of his game. He just buried his best friend less than 8 hours before this interview.
Hatch? His name says it all. Hatch a plot, hatch a scheme, hatch an egg.
Are you sure of this? If he was so upset, why didn't he stay home?
And Senators have a commitment to civility that has not yet creeped into the conversations on the internet.
Also, you slime ball know it all's. Have you noticed how empty your holiday tables are these days?
Only the greedy suck ups will visit you.
they come from big money families of some sort or another.
The next time the DNC calls for some money.
This entire administration is turning out to be one big fat wuss.
It has been more than evident that when a Right-Winger and a Leftist (Winger if you want) are both on a program...the Left gets VERY LITTLE speaking time.
I have seen it over and over and over....even when the left-speaking person tries to chime in...he or she is overrun.
I didn't see this program, but one would think Kerry would have been more forceful. Rude?? Tell me about 'rude'.
The problem with Kerry is the same thing that made him a terrible Presidential candidate. He is concerned about being a gentleman, not offending anyone and being politically correct that he oftens fails to say what needs to be said. When he does attempt to directly aim at an issue, he does into such convaluted detail as to loose half his audience. He just isn't effective in front of the camera. When the Dems need a voice in front of the camera, Feingold, Whitehouse, Boxer, McCaskill, and others are much better.
He even seems genuinely like-able, which is more than I can say for most politicians in general.
as that annoying questioning student in Florida found out.
The female cop (photographed) had her taser/gun aimed at his back BEFORE he asked his infamous skull&bones question.
..concerning Kerry.
You know, I don't even think he's all that like-able either now.
say.
You are lying.
Or did you consider why Obama had Kerry do the last MTP before the election. Kerry often can say MUCH stronger things than others because of his gravitas and because he is a gentleman.
He is much better than all 4 you mentioned.
So the CIA is some form of modern day Knights Templar, Skull 'n' Bones or uber elite that is above the law.
Somebody should ask Kerry how long he has been a member of the CIA, and did automatic entrance to it come from his S&Bs membership, or from when he 'grew up' and joined the establishment elite.
Sigh! This is the guy the DLC forced us to vote for in '04. We could have had Howard Dean, but nooooooo.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
..............DLC only signifiy's PUKIE TAKE OVER!!
Mini Me is as loathesome, smarmy and deceitful as her father. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/30/sam-...
John Kerry either doesn't remember or doesn't understand why he didn't get enough of the vote to put Dubya out of the white house.
...that John Kerry and the "Chimpster" both belonged to the same college fraternity?
Skull-n-Bones
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_family
Too close for comfort, imo...
Bush.
Put Cheney before a nation and international court and tribunal and upon his conviction put him in front of a firing squad for being a traitor, a war monger, a war profiteer and a war criminal.
And to be fair, if he's up to it, we allow Harry Whittington to be on the firing squad.
When you constantly have an "everything is debatable" mentality and present that as "news", you end up with a situation where principles can go out the window so long as the head guy on "your team" disagrees just enough to sound different (for example, Obama saying he's against torture, but won't prosecute those who helped do it). What do we expect from Kerry though who, in 2004, just kind of sat back while the "news" accepted the idiotic lies from the Swiftboat Veterans and now, to this day, I know a lot of people that still believe that BS.
The Onion puts the "torture debate" into it's proper context:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/is_usin...
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
Orrin the Shill: 'Cheney's been a great asset to the country different from so many progressives"
What a low life Republican Shithead fuck. Protecting Cheney while smearing progressives all in the same breath. Divisive mean spirited red state Republican to the end. Go straight to hell Orrin.
Cheney's a 5 deferment Vietnam dodging coward who was a coward then and is a coward now selling America's moral authority up the river to cover for his cowardly self-serving ass. He doesn't give 2 shits about America or the American people other than for exploitation purposes. Put that bastard Cheney on trial then throw him in prison for life.
he is a traitor to the country
traitors get shot
the nazi war crime tribunals were wrong
during nazi germany, judges and lawyers created laws that they felt were in the best interests of germany
these laws allowed them to murder millions...it was legal, according to the law
i want senator hatch to please explain to me the difference between the attys and judges in nazi germany and the political appointees of the bush administration
support the kidnapping, rape, torture and murder of children. When they're not supporting killing them with bombs. WHY are they allowed on American television???
But it makes you wonder, doesn't it? Would we be at war for oil somewhere, whether it's the Middle East or Venezuela, if Kerry had been President? The guy is a limp rag. Whatever the lobbyists wanted probably. To think I actually went to see him live and did a neighborhood door-to-door.
Why was John Kerry sitting on orrin hatch's hands?
Hope he had Tex-Mex for lunch.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
John Kerry represents everything that wrong with the democratic party.
then there is harry reid, max baucus, bayh, nelson, carper, blanche lincoln, mary landreiu. DLC in general. ed rendell. As far as I'm concerned Webb and Warner can march to their different drummer
That since they didn't speak up when they should have,now it all looks like sour grapes.I don't like it one bit, but that is how the rethugs will spin it, with plenty of help from the lame stream media.
Maybe Orrin Hatch can provide what Dick Cheny or his daughter Liz hasn't been able to produce.
That is show me BRYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT and submit specific information that can be proven and give a specific name of someone that their life was directly saved by waterboarding sa detainee 70 times in one month?
They need to put up.
As Cheny says, "fact of the matter". Well fact of the matter is he cannot and has not named anyone that their life or lives were saved because of torture.!
Cheney can't even get it right when he states, " we have not been hit in 8 yrs".
Does it have anything with Bush'Cheney being provoked into providing Al Qaida with US Troop targets in their backyard?
Republicans like slippery slope inuendos, how about this scenario?
A crime occurs in a town, the Sheriff begins rounding up the towns people and begins water boarding them until someone eithr confesses or blames someone else. Crime solved.
That Dick Cheney has ever been an asset to this country. He has always dealt in trying to subvert reasonable people with disingenuousness and lies since the Gerald Ford administration. Look up his history. A great many bullshit Republican talking points that have poisoned the national discourse can be laid to Cheney's door. They don't call him "The Big Dick" for nothing.
And Hatch? He got those little pouchy cheeks fellating pidgeons.
We have had excellent interrogators who can get more information with "milk and cookies" than a torture expert can. Let's face it: torture is fun. That's what Cheney was having...fun...illegal fun...
The "dems" are spineless. It really doesn't take much to smack a republican. They are all gas. Kerry is a coward. Hatch is a coward. Cheney is the worst of cowards he hides behind others to talk fat. "Put up", like the man says. Give us a "shadow of doubt" that torture should be legal.
Ronald666Wilson Reagan
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