Obama Asks Barrasso If He Would Feel the Same Way About Catastrophic Care if He Made $40,000 a Year
President Obama took Sen. John Barrasso to school during the Health Care Summit on why health savings accounts won't work for those who are not wealthy enough already to put some savings aside. From TPM -- Obama Takes Dr. Barrasso To Medical School:
"Would you be satisfied if every member of Congress just had catastrophic care--you think we'd be better health care purchasers?" Obama asked Barrasso. "I mean, is that a change you think we should make?"
"I think actually we would," Barrasso responded. "We'd really focus on it. We'd have more, as you say, skin in the game. And especially if they had a savings account--a health savings account--they could put their money into that, and they'd be spending the money out of that."
Obama's retort left Barrasso speechless:
"Would you feel the same way if you were making $40,000. Or if that was your income. Because that's the reality for a lot of folks," Obama said.
As usual, the Republicans' great ideas for health care "reform" is for everyone to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, even if those bootstraps are nonexistent. Families USA has a great list of articles as to why these health savings accounts are a really bad idea for anyone who is not already wealthy.
Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) are being promoted by President Bush and conservatives in Congress as a way to bring down spiraling health care costs. Only if consumers have "skin in the game," they argue, will Americans start to shop around for cheaper health care.
HSAs are tax sheltered savings accounts coupled with high-deductible health insurance policies, and they have serious drawbacks. For many health consumers, HSAs will increase out-of-pocket costs—and complexity.
And here's what they won't do: They won't bring down health care costs and they won't make a dent in the number of Americans without health insurance. This resource center pulls together a range of materials looking at the limitations of Health Savings Accounts.
Check out the articles linked there for much, much more on the topic.
Right.
Ok, lets say your yearly med ins costs you 1000 US a month. For a family of 4. Reasonable? maybe. That's 12k a year.
Now. multiply that by 10 years. 120k a decade.
In that decade, do you think your rates would go up?
In the first year, do you think your rates would go up?
Of course they would. Well Point is reported to being getting ready to raise their rates by 29%. Just to off set the likelyhood of the heath care reform.
Now, if someone is supposed to be saving in a healthcare account.
How are they supposed to keep up with rate increases?
Health care is bankrupting the country. Both the population and the govt.
All these GOp'rs want is more money for big biz. Nothing more.
They have to earn their kickbacks. Or, bribes if you will.
Oh, I'm sorry. Campaign donations.
Oh, one more thing.
What ever your med ins rates are. Do the math.
Keep multiplying by a decade.
Look at what you're paying these people.
Now, do you think you'll ever need that much med care?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
trust me they are going to collapse the whole country, then they are really going feel it hit home.
from Obama but can tell you the intractable lies and distortions of the republicans are taking their toll on our President! Not to believed is the bias of the media!
Not to mention the obvious but how can people continue to believe this claptrap in favor of the truth! Our HealthCare system is being bastardized by the republican corporations--The repubs are offering the citizens A BLANK PIECE OF PAPER to the 45,000 who will die and the 40 million uninsured!
Shameless
Everyone's crying that Obama was being condescending and treated them like 3rd graders. NO! He treated these idiots like he should have. A bunch of overpaid politicians who have no idea what the lower and middle class go through. Bought and sold by the Health care industry.
is intended to be a factual statement
I make under $20,000 per year, roughly 17,000. Not that this isn't easy math, but that's less than half of 40,000. I support myself and my wife and we are both full-time students as well, hoping to do better in the future. I was unemployed for nearly six months after being laid off from a doctor's office, along with two nurses. They now have one nurse that also answers the phones. Again, I work full time and make UNDER 20,000 per year, supporting two people. Now, tell me, how is it fair to, when 40,000 isn't considered very much and even I can't get the healthcare I need. I am fortunate enough that the company that makes my medication has a program to help low-income people keep their pills. But, not every company, indeed not most, have such programs. Were the company to stop this program, the nerves in my brain could spasm until I had a heart-attack and died or my brain just fried, whichever came first. It would take less than a month for this to happen. These Republicans are ignorant asses when they think it's okay to go into deficit to cut the estate tax for the top 1% of the wealthiest but not to save lives. I'd spit on them if I could. They sicken me and are damn near assistants to manslaughter.
Yes and you are supposed to put some of that into an HSA.
Riiiiight.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
uninsured. She gets in about $19,000 per year. About half of that is her work paycheck, and the other half is her Social Security widow's pension. Thank God for her widow's pension or she'd only have about $9,000 per year.
She does save money, but she still would not be able to keep up with the amount of money required to fund an insurance coverage for herself.
Barrasso might as well be telling us all to eat cake.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
That's the first thing that came to my mind, too. "Let them eat cake."
is nothing but a luxury perk. I was making up to $50k /year, probably about $30k last year, and never had coverage. Now I'm unemployed, and the thought of ever getting is as far away as going to a strip club again-- a pipedream.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
and just got fired/quit last night. Which actually is a good thing since I was working on a dairy farm which meant no health care, no unemployment insurance, no nothing except backbreaking, knee destroying work. I planned on doing all I could to get back into construction this spring. It's still a bit early for that here in VT but hopefully I can find something until then or sell enough possessions to hold out til then. And hopefully some green construction work will come along here. We'll see. But yeah the idiots in our Congress ARE clueless. And that really goes for both sides of the aisle, although not quite as clueless on the Dem side. But they really are only slightly less clueless or they'd have already passed HR 676.
This gets to the heart of the matter. The Republicans' "solutions" to the health care problems in our nation cannot help those who need it the most. They claim to be making rational arguments for how to do it better than the Democrats, but in reality, they're morally bankrupt motherfuckers either making utterly disingenuous arguments or some of the stupidest humans on the planet.
I know which one I vote for.
I vote for both. Stupidest humans on the planet and morally bankrupt. And these are the people that think they deserve to be in charge come November?
They are useless in this in the whole scheme of things. They don't really care about individuals, only corporations. They think that ER is sufficient health coverage, yet Gov. Pawlenty said the other day that hospitals should have the right deny coverage to anyone they want.
I love that expression.
Shit, $40K is RICH to me. I've never made more than $25K/yr in my life. And there are a LOT of people like me.
I'm really sick of this whole issue being centered on businesses and finance and all that. Obama going on about doing what's good for "America's businesses". FUCK THAT. Do what's good for the PEOPLE. This whole debate should be about what's right for EVERYONE, not just the ones with money or the ones running companies, big or small. It should be about the PATIENTS.
But then, that would mean chucking the whole vampire insurance industry and going to a national system like every other civilized country in the world, and the gods know we can't have THAT.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Mr. President, THIS is the kind of people you are trying to work with and that is why you are losing support on the left. We figured out a long, long time ago that they are only interested in being clueless douchenozzles.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
True. WellPoint even convinced the feds to reclassify them from an insurer to a financial services company. The name of UnitedHealth's bank is OptumHealthBank - in 2007 they had $600 million in HSA deposits.
The insurers price us out of the "regular" health insurance so that we go to high deductible plans coupled with Health Savings Accounts. A big win for them since they shift the risk to us and get a nice, risk free revenue stream. They charge fees for administering those HSA's.e
The LA Times did a very informative article in 2008. I think this transformation to financial services is being missed by the MSM in this story. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a long term strategy in the big rate increases to get us to drop current insurance in favor of these plans. Even more corporations are included high deductible plans and HSA's in their choices during open enrollment.
Here's the LA Times article:
Insurers see banking future
Many have found that managing customers' money is more profitable than underwriting medical coverage.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/22/busin...
This is why he's president and they're not.
is intended to be a factual statement
And I had really good health insurance. I got laid off on January 13, 2008 and I haven't even been able to score an interview. And the Democrats have wasted an entire year trying to work with a group of people whose stated goal is to cause them to fail at governing.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
I'm always amused when republiCONS talk about the need for average Americans to have "skin in the game". For example, they say that with health savings accounts, people will choose their healthcare wisely because they're using their own money. What a bunch of bullshit. First of, HSA's, like COBRA, are a joke if you've lost your job and you've got no fucking money. Secondly, since the republiCONS are such devout believers in having "skin in the game" let's send their sons and daughters to Iraq and Afghanistan;Let's have every GOP and Blue Dog Democrat give up their government run, "socialistic" healthcare and then go out and buy insurance like we're supposed to. Let's see what they say about having "skin in the game" then.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
They talk as if healthcare costs are high because people make frivolous visits to doctors, you know, because they're bored.
Now that I mention it, I can't think of anything better to do on a snowy Saturday night than bundle the kids up, take a bus downtown, and sit in an ER for 4 hours.
Then when the doctor suggests that my kid should get an MRI (and since I have "skin in the game") I'll second guess her using my extensive medical knowledge derived from watching House, and skip the frivolous, expensive diagnostic test.
A big part of the problem is that the friggin MRI costs $1,300 plus the specialist visit to look at the results. There's no negotiation, no comparison shopping, no options.
In my neck of the woods, there are two MRI machines, both owned by the same damned "not for profit" company. What else do you do when the kid's arm seems broken but x-rays are negative?
Sounds like a grand Saturday night to me.
Or maybe when the doctor tells me I need an MRI on my knee, and can't/won't proceed with treatment until we get the results to confirm the diagnosis, I should just hobble around on crutches until I can go home and make a dozen phone calls to compare the cost - and find out that the 3 facilities that my insurance covers are just 3 places owned by the same company and have identical costs, while the place that's $200 cheaper isn't 'in network'.
It's kinda strange listening to a President who seems to really give a shit about people.
He's good. Other than the stuttering when he's thinking, he's damned good.
Good is not good enough...
He's superior. You'd be stuttering too if you were conducting a meeting while juggling 10 balls in the air. It's his blackness that has compromised his ability to achieve.
Or what do they think is more important to me, money or my health? Oh, and BTW, because my skin is in it more surely than theirs, it's not really a fucking "game" to me...
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
I had a job where I made $45k in one year doing sales. My HS account was $500 that year. Lucky I never got sick. That money barely covered my last visit to an eye doctor. I had to get a job at a non-profit before I had health insurance - the first employer I've had who provided something more than a crappy HSA.
century France? Don't they realize it didn't end very well?
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
...that is only because Louis XVI "didn't do it right."
*
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
If he even KNOWS anybody who makes 40K or less per year? He'll probably respond with tales of how many middle class "friends" he has. yep. Just like all the black and gay friends he has...
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
they have floated this idiotic idea since reagan....and have never attempted to institute it
why?
because even they know it wont work
Most of us are familiar with Health Spending Accounts. Health Savings Accounts are different and are coupled with high deductible insurance. Both are referred to as HSAs.
Health Savings Account
These accounts are similar to a 401(k)in that your contributions accumulate tax free from year to year. That's their big selling point. You can use the money in those accounts to pay for health expenses like your deductible and co-pays and expenses that just aren't covered. They are coupled with high deductible insurance plans. Like a 401(k) though time is a factor. You need time to accumulate funds to cover the expenses that will be your responsibility in a high deductible plan. This may be especially difficult if you have a chronic health condition or a young family with kids going to the doctor several times a year.
Health Spending Accounts
These accounts are tax free money that can be used to pay for deductibles, co-pays, and even over-the-counter health-related purchases. However, these accounts do not accumulate. If you do not incur sufficient eligible expenses by Jan 31, any balance will go to the company. The key is to plan your expenses correctly.
One thing everyone should know is that you do not need to have the funds in your account before you file a claim. As of today you've only had a few deductions from your paycheck for your Health Spending Account but you could file a claim for the full amount you signed up for during open enrollment.
If you get laid off or quit, the company cannot deduct the full amount from your final check. That's the risk they take. The risk you take is having money left in the account.
I have one, and it's very difficult to plan how much you're going to get sick next year.
OTOH, there are always non-emergency tests, dental and eye care issues you can hold in reserve to finish out the account in the final couple of months of the fiscal year.
They're similar to a 401k - the funds accumulate tax free from year to year. They're coupled with high deductible plans because you'll be paying a lot more out of pocket for health care. The insurer gets to reduce their financial risk by passing it on to the subscriber.
In case you don't know, there is a long list of OTC items you can get reimbursed for - aspirin, cold medication, band aids, gauze, antiseptic.
Another rule people are often unaware of is that the amount you signed up for during open enrollment is available to you the first day of the new plan year. Example: As of today you only made a few contributions to your account. However, you can file a claim today for the full amount you signed up to contribute. If you quit or get laid off the company cannot deduct the balance you owe from your last check nor can they bill you.
I'm now retire but I'd love to have a spending account. However, only earned income is eligible. Like I don't pay taxes on my pension and social security? I don't understand why they have this distinction
HSAs do accumulate. FSAs do not.
The thing that is so totally insane is the dumb ass Republicans who ARE making $40,000 a year and agree with the joker BarrASSo. The dumb ass $40,000 a year jokers have just not have had to try to use their ridiculous undercoverage employer bought health insurance. Just like they are not unemployed... yet. Maybe when their shit hits the fan they will understand they are rooting against their own self interest. Just maybe.
it's every man for himself; take what you can get and screw the other guy. It's an equal playing field, and if you aren't successful, you're lazy and aren't trying hard enough.
If you make $10 an hour, all you have to do is work 100,00 hours in a year and you're a millionaire! So get off your lazy ass; get to work; and stop looking for a handout!
US Median Household Income, in 2008 dollars, was $40,300 in 1967 and rose to $50,300 in 2008, the last year figures are available.
Consider that many "households" have two wage-earners.
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
When is Obama going to quit playing games with these pigs ? Enough !
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
the Repuke Health Care Plan is: if you have a medical issue, just DIE quickly!!!
And these people call themselves Christians!!!!
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Christ would probably have bitch-slapped Barasso the same way Obama did.
Harder, maybe.
Essentially Barrasso's suggestion boils down to this; poor people will die out and the social elite will be left to reproduce, so why should we be trying to prevent that? What a dick! The solution to healthcare is simply to pay for healthcare. Thank you! nobody ever thought of that...oh wait, there's just this one little problem. Millions of Americans cannot afford to pay for healthcare, whether they're saving money or not, but I guess that's not a problem for Barrasso or his friends so what the hell does he care. It's not like he's paid to represent these people or anything.
That guy is a major embarrassment to my state. Around here he is referred to as Barrasshole.
Best to quit while you're behind.
He coulda shut up, but had to try to re-make his point..BO slapped him down again.
These people are just plain dumb.
Fuck everyone of these evil psychotic republican assholes. When I go in for my third heart surgery in six years next week, I don't want to "shop around" to save a couple of fucking dollars by getting some half-assed Dr. to do the procedure. Do these assholes actually think about this shit before it comes out of their mouth?
You don't see these god damned hypocrite prick bastards like Cheney and Bush shopping around to all of those private companies they love so much when they need treatment. No sirreeeee! It's get out the old government cadillac insurance, and straight to Walter Reed for the best Dr's. taxpayers can buy.
When my baby was 1.5 years old and had a severe asthma attack, I thought she was going to die in my arms! Gee, I sure wish I could have gotten out the old phone book and called around for the best emergency room deal, or better yet, found a coupon?
These stupid evil mother fuckers are not going to stop until there is a civil war, and we eliminate them and their imbecile stooges the teabaggers!
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
Civil War is what they want, and if so, they will find out 'again' that progressives outnumber them 3 to 1.
Did anyone ever wonder why all the registered voter statistics were removed from the web in 2008, because the numbers proved there were less than 25% registered republicans?
...he's rude.
...a bunch of damn Healthcare Queens living fat off our taxpayer dollars! Choosing expensive diseases like cancer that are so far beyond their paygrade when they can only afford the flu! Whatever happened to good old fashioned American common sense?! If you want treatment for a luxury disease like cancer, you should go out and earn the money the old fashioned way! What's happening to America? I want my country back!
just because he is able to see the human side of America. I'm proud to have voted for this man. Imagine Bush doing what Obama is doing right now?
These Republicans are soo out of touch with what the average American faces every day. Forty thousand dollars is nothing if you're trying to support a family, or even just yourself. You might be able to eke out an existence, pay for the basics, but there wouldn't be any left to sock away enough for a health savings account.
We should all live in cardboard boxes, eat cat food, and give all of our money to the bankers.
Sounds Great to me.
This guy asshole and health savings accounts? What a stupid mother fucker. These people lack the morals or the intelligence to make sound rational decisions and should not be allowed in government.
Hell people like him should not be allowed to make decisions that effect others!
WE are hurting in America. We are plagued by 40 million people that are just fucking stupid uncaring assholes.
republicanism/conservatism is a mental illness and it is killing America!
...to stop the morally bankrupt from growing up to take positions of power. These bullies can easily be identified by 5th grade and should receive a lifelong personality disorder diagnosis that will prevent them from entering public service or earning a college education.
Of course, I wouldn't want them spitting on my burgers, but I'm sure they could make about $20K a year doing an honest day's work.
looks like all of the taxes that you and your ancestors paid your/their whole lives were for naught. It looks like it's time that you were paid reparations.
The right-wing is still pushing the idea of "healthcare savings accounts" as a substitute for insurance. What a joke! Like any amount Average Joe could put in a "special" account, in addition to saving for retirement, saving for a rainy day, etc, could make even a small dent in a whopping medical bill. Only the rich could put enough into an HSA to do them any good, and of course the rich wouldn't need an HSA. When Bush was pushing the HSA idea, it was an attempt to get more people to invest in the stock market, just as they wanted to privatize Social Security and have people invest in stocks. No matter how many different savings accounts a family of low or modest income puts their savings in, a catastrophic medical event will wipe it all out.
and they should be run on network news, not just C Span.
The average voter hears the "health care savings account" myth and sees it as a way to lower his taxable income (if he uses it) and control costs if the doctor tells him the MRI he recommends isn't really necessary.
Sadly - in their scramble to avoid the "liberal" label, the MSM cowers just as Senate Democrats cower. "Oh please don't call me a liberal - people will hate me," they think.
Democrats, Senators, Representatives, and the President need to say, "You're a fool or a liar - take your pick Mr. McConnell (Mr Cantor or Mr. Boehner). Which is it?"
Yes the Beckerheads and the Dittoheads and O'Really's tiny-brained will get angry and scream the truthteller is partisan - BFD, they were born angry and stupid.
There you have it, the unvarnished truth. Republicans, as I have said for years now, don't live in the real world. They think everyone makes the same amount of money they do, and why can't they have a health care savings account. This is the bullshit they sell to their moron supporters making less than $40K a year, and the morons buy it. So when I call these people stupid, I mean it. They are as dumb as a rock!
This is the crap I'm talking about when I say that people who live in the 'upper' income brackets, shouldn't even be allowed to hold seats in the Federal Government. Most come into their offices with personal wealth and a net worth that most of us can only imagine. The offices they are elected to is only a career enhancement and sometimes just a hobby. They have no clue what is to have to watch every penny that comes in and goes out. Savings Account?? What the HELL is that? Yes they live in their own alternate reality. How can people who have never had to want for anything in their entire privileged lives, legislate for and effectively represent a population that has no other choice but to live from paycheck to paycheck...if you are still lucky enough the have something that passes as a paycheck. These people don't even get their hands dirty unless they want to.
Government + the Federal Reserve = organized crime
...about whom I've read and heard very little. After seeing his performance at the health care summit I concluded I don't need or want to know more. However, I noticed in Wikipedia that he is apparently a member of the AMA. No surprise there. Has the AMA ever made a decision that was for the good of patients?
Generally speaking, people who are part of the predator class should not be doctors, but the incomes of today's doctors give most of them membership in that class if they want it. Barrasso strikes me as a devoted predator. Then, sitting there in his expensive custom suit, Barrasso advocates for a kind of health care system that would devastate low income and poor people. That would be good for him, because he wouldn't have to see, smell, or touch such patients since they would be unlikely to be able to afford his services.
...but a large chunk of the idiots in the mainstream media looked at this Healthcare Summit and proclaimed the debate to have ended in "a draw".
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