Morning Joe Crew Thinks This Week Has "Been a Mess" for Democrats on Health Care Reform
By Heather Saturday Oct 31, 2009 3:00pm
Morgan Weiland at Media Matters summed up this segment nicely--Memo to the media: This has been a great week for health reform:
Discussing health care reform today on Morning Joe, co-host Joe Scarborough and NBC White House correspondent Chuck Todd agreed that "[t]his week has been a mess for the Democrats." Todd added that "it does seem like they decided to take two steps back after they took one step forward because now they got a trillion dollar bill in the House, which is about $150 billion more than they said, than the President said that he wanted, and now they've got to have this back and forth and figure out how to get six to 10 moderate Democrats and Olympia Snowe on board."
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree that the past week was "a mess for the Democrats." Speaker Pelosi reported out a full House bill, the American Affordable Health Choices Act (H.R. 3962), that achieves a number of key fiscal goals that only this summer many in the media were insisting were out of reach. The Congressional Budget Office found that the bill reduces the deficit by $104 billion over the next decade, and continues to chip away at it in the subsequent decade. Plus it comes in under the magic $900 billion number for the net cost of coverage expansion over 10 years -- a cost that is, in CBO's words, "more than offset." And these achievements are doubly important because they satisfy President Obama's must-have requirement that reform "[w]on't add a dime to the deficit."
If anything, all of this adds up to a big step forward -- arguably a bigger one than has ever taken to achieve comprehensive health care reform in this country.
Not in the Villagers on Morning Joe's world though. In their view it's just terrible that the Democrats are breaking with the White House and their obsession with bipartisanship and catering to Olympia Snowe and her love of the trigger. They're more worried about advancing the meme that the Democrats are in disarray and everything is smelling like roses for the Republicans.
Of course we’re not going to get any sort of substantive debate about what’s actually in these bills and what those changes might mean to the American public. No, we get horse race coverage and meaningless talking points churned out as Chuck Todd whines about being criticized for the way they're covering the issue.
They also never talk about what it would mean if Harry Reid forces an actual filibuster--if he would make any of these Senators who are opposed to the bill have to stand up and debate until they dropped. Later in the segment Sheldon Whitehouse was asked if this could still be dragging along as it got close to the holiday break and would Harry Reid consider keeping all of them there instead of going home. He said this could very well go into the holidays or even the beginning of next year.
I wonder how that would play out? Tell them if they want to filibuster the bill, they're welcome to do it all week Christmas week, and let's carry it into New Years week for good measure. If Reid would grow a spine and actually do that I think I'd consider it a holiday gift, not that it's going to happen. It seems Reid and the media are more than content to pretend that Reid's silent filibuster is the norm. What does anyone think would have happened to the Civil Rights Act of 1957 if we'd had a Harry Reid around back then to deal with the likes of Strom Thurmond?
I'll gladly reserve judgement as I would expect everyone will as well on whether we should be clamoring for that or not after we see what makes it to the floor for a final vote. If they go back to either opt-in or Snowe's trigger I don't see how that's a step towards reforming the current system. The other compromises are bad enough already away from single-payer, which is what we should have.
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but in this singular particular assessment, Morning Joe and his motley crew are correct, in conclusion if not in how they reached that opinion.
All the Democrats, both in the House and Senate and White House, have brought crumbs to the Public regarding HC reform, all quite obviously in favor of rewarding the Healthcare Industrial Complex with a cornucopia of limitless cash.
Absolutely NO HC reform, at this point, would be better than the steaming piles of hooey that both the House and Senate HC bills represent. And Senate-House reconciliation will only make the final bill even more onerous than what currently exists. ABSOLUTE FAILURE - absolute failure from a political party that controls the House, the Senate, and the White House. If you cannot get the equivalent of HR-676 through the Congress now, how can you Democrats be counted upon to get this country shifted from for-profit HC insurance to Universal Single-Payer HC after future, supposedly successful, national elections that give the Democratic Party an even greater majority?
HR-676 at a minimum, but truly Universal Single-Payer HC is the only economically viable outcome that will help this country compete in the Global marketplace. If the UK could pull this off just a few short years after WW-II, while they were broke and their country in ruins, just what is your excuse?
correct.
worse, the Dems are going to call it a victory, fuck america and get no republican votes.
What NOBODY ever mentions when reporters, Repubs, and "spokespersons" blather on and on about how this health care stuff will bankrupt the U.S. and that we just can't afford it, is HOW MUCH TANKS and SHIPS and PLANES, etc., etc. cost every day in our 2 wars.
This is so outrageous that I scream at the TV in frustration all the time.
It's NEVER brought up. Nobody ever complains about how these wars are ruining our finances. Nobody ever has since I can remember.
Why not even ONE person on ONE show!?
It just pounds home the fact we're told only lies or not told anything every single day.
to that though don't you? The problem is the money in our political system and it needs to be cleaned up yesterday, but none of them want to clean it up once they get in there. Other than urging the public to put lots of pressure on them to do the right thing and primary threats I'm not sure what more the progressive side of the aisle can do to clean things up.
The Democrats' behavior is also the result of our idiotic, outdated, single-member, winner-takes-all electoral system. The president is actually very concerned that if he isn't over-the-top bipartisan, many of the Blue Dogs will actually lose in 2010 in their gerrymandered, nonsensical, non-representative districts. Such a result could actually badly damage the majority the Do Nothing Party has right now.
Of course, this begs the question, what difference does it make, if the majority can't get anything done anyway? The sad answer to that is that all the Democrats can do in this system is damage control. Republicans will always make things even worse than they are.
The reason we've gotten this far is that a vast majority of the country wants the public option, and in the last idiotic elections, a progressive majority was able to eek out a narrow plurality in Congress.
Sure, we're getting closer and closer. But there's also the danger that the "reform" will be worse than the original broken system, giving false credence to the right wing.
But whatever. Given the way we elect people in this country, this is all very, very, very predictable.
that what you pointed out here is exactly the danger, which makes it all the more important for us to stay on them to do the right thing and not make things worse than there were before so it is not reform. It is also important to push back against the Villagers when they try to spin the one week when things look like they're shifting back in the right direction even if it's not as much as everyone would like and try to turn that into a negative. Snowe's trigger option is horrid just as Nelson's opt-in. Opt out is bad but if they put it in place for a year, it's very unlikely that states will turn around and take it away. The public option needs to be broader and cover more people, but if the system is put in place, and it's a decent one, it can be expanded on.
In the mean time we all still need to be pushing for single payer. I don't think we're going to get that without some changes to the way money is influencing our politics. How we fix that is beyond me since the system is so corrupt. We need public financing of elections and the special interests out.
I do support single payer and wish to hell we had the votes on the Congress to get it as I've said here repeatedly. We've got all of the people who should be Republican moderates to contend with since the Republicans have run all of them off and the best they're going to get unless we get more actual liberals who aren't corrupt elected is a compromise.
What kills me about this segment from Morning Joe is that the Chuck Todd's and Joe Scarborough's of the world think that the Democrats moving back towards what their base wants, which is not to compromise or not to the point where there is no reform, is a bad thing. It's terrible that they didn't just go for the trigger and getting Snowe's vote. I see them doing all they can do undermine anyone who actually wants reform, and painting any moves in the right as opposed to wrong direction as terrible.
Also as I said, I want to see what we end up with when this is all said and done. If it gets worse yet, I don't know how any progressives can support it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep pushing them in the right direction. I think we get to single payer by continuing to push for it no matter what happens with this bill. This fight is not over by a long shot. I think we're doing what we can here by supporting better candidates. It's a long hard uphill battle when you're fighting against that much money.
I beg to differ. No healthcare reform will drive us all into bankruptcy and slaves to employers and their whims. It ain't great what is being offered but it is better than nothing.
they are amusing, cute, witty and important.
Keep watching!
They've got the zeitgeist guy, willie, how could they not be important?
MSNBC's "Morning Joe" Sucks! I stopped watching that AWFUL SHOW MONTHS ago. It is a waste of good time to even bother watching a second of those idiots.
MSNBC pretty much sucks if you ask me. Even Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow put on and praise some of these "Morning Joe" idiots like Chuck Todd and Pat Buchanan.
Only 2% of Americans under age 65 will receive health insurance under the "public option" proposed in the House bill.
Morning Joe, the GOP, the health insurance companies, all are trying to kill the public option in any form.
LOL . . nope no privilege and connections there hell no this chick carved and mauled her way to the top against overwhelming odds of ever achieving "success".
Douche bags of the world UNITE!
but no cigar! The spineless democrats led by Obama(yes I voted for Obama) are doing a great job of killing the reform of health care! What I don't understand is that they, the dems, are selling this garbage with straight faces!Before I retired I had Blue Cross-Blue Shield for over 40 years and I'm now on Medicare and I love it and I truly wish the dems had the BALLS to push for and get enacted Medicare for ALL!Finally, remember who votes how and vote against every single rep who tries to fuck the majority of us who want real reform!I will be voting against ALL incumbents from now on! FUCK a bunch of party loyalty as I'm tired of my reps in D.C. Slapping me in my face!Anybody else feel that way?
Morning Joe and low standards that about sums it up I guess.
-no one admits the truth: Eventually we will have single Payer, because our current system is unsustainable; it will self- destruct soon.
There are the emotional arguments: "45,000 die a year!" (pro)
"They're all lazy bums, welfare cheats, illegals!" (against)
There are the ethical arguments: "Everyone deserves access to quality health care" (pro) or "Why should I have to pay for someone else's health?" (against)
And all their variations, such as "Government control of health care will destroy it!"
But it really is a simple fact that the health care system of this country cannot function at all in its present form. The system will crash and burn, just as the financial system nearly did.
Only, how does the Gov't assist a broken Health Care System? By instituting single payer. But not untill the very last penny of American's money is squeezed out of us by the Insurance Corporations.
OMG!!!11!! Medicare will be broke in X years!
OMG!!!11!! Social Security will be broke in X years!
Not a peep about how at this rate, health care increases will eventually swallow the entire GDP.
The current US health care system is NOT sustainable.
but they're kinda' right. The Dem "leaders" looked confused, corrupt, weak and divided. They're in charge in Washington right now and they couldn't even get the cornerstone of the party's platform done right.
Bragging about how many jobs you saved then turning around warning about lack of jobs for instance.
????? Are these people on psychotropic drugs or something?
whatever it is it's very strange.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muTgdusvyoc
serious ass. Man was I mistaken-deluded.
I lived through the Dems continual licking of Reagan's ass back in the '80s as he ruthlessly terrorized America.
After Senator Inyoue came out one day during the Iran Contra hearings and announced that even if it was all ordered and approved by the President that they would never dream to hold Reagan accountable to the law and the Constitution, nothing the Dems do to defer to the GOP surprises me anymore.
I am bitterly disappointed by the health care debacle the Dems have concocted for their bribe-holders.
You were/are deluded....Time perhaps to join the Green Party. The Dems do not care about you. The Dems care about BIG MONEY DONORS ONLY!!!!
So the MSNBC Right Wing Players have chosen delusion as their path of least resistance again, huh?
Kinda sucks once you've run out of material, huh Joe?
Better deluded than depressed, right Joe?
Remember?
And Scarborough is right.
The Dems were falling all over themselves to strip the public option from the House bill yesterday.
What remains of the health care 'reform' bill is exactly and only what the insurance lobbyists ordered the Dems to do: a trillion dollar transfer of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the CEOs and shareholders of the for-profit insurance companies through the mandatory purchase of obscenely-expensive insurance plans that have ridiculously high deductibles designed to impoverish what little remains of the middle class while affording them no actual health care and no protection from extortionary medical bills.
Thanks, Democratic Majority, for siding with those that bribe you into voting against the clear wishes of your constituency. If Dems actually represented their legal constituents, those that voted them into office, we would have universal single payer.
When danger reared it's ugly head,
Dems bravely turned their tail and fled.
Yes, brave Democrats turned about
And gallantly they chickened out.
Oh, to hell with Scarborough. Why do you think they call it Morning Joke? Why is it that it seems that all Republicans are full of shit? I guess they get away with it because there are so many stupid people in the world. Take the Tea Baggers for example. And the Beck army of idiots. Just plain stupid. Scarborough? What a waste of skin.
Well - the fact that we have to pass it doesn't mean it's not crap legislation -
* It'll help almost no one,
* According to "mad as hell doctors" it's designed to fail -
* We can't get to single payer from it -
* They took out the provision that tied it to medicare rates.
* It doesn't lower existing premiums
* Insurance companies will still be able to discriminate.
This is reform?
They're giving us a little as they possibly can. They think they can slap a "REFORM" label on its rotting legislative corpse and we'll all swoon in ecstasy.
Not going to happen.
*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U4QVCowisY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtVLK9jruKc
And they are right . One big cluster puck . This " reform " bill is an absolute joke .
Of the beltway media concern troll faction.All in the same screenshot?I'll take your word for it,cause I'm not clicking on that group of ass-hats.Not even for a second.
From the very beginning, the Republicans STATED that this was about CRIPPLING Obama's presidency. THAT was their goal. All Scarbourough has ever done is just stand on the sidelines in his cheering section and help to push the whole mess over the cliff.
The one thing Republicans are good at (besides SEX SCANDALS and intern murders) is OBSTRUCTING meaningful legislation. OK, well, I guess that makes THREE THINGS. Oh... did I mention PISSING ON PEOPLE who are LESS CONSERVATIVE? There... FOUR THINGS.
Only one thing keeps me from watching Morning Joe: Joe Scarborough. If I wanted to hear lying conservatives in the morning, I'd watch Fox & Fiends. Oh wait. Make that two things: Pat Buchanan. If I wanted to listen a cantankerous bigoted racist suffering from borderline senility and too much phlegm in his throat, I'd tune in to Lou Dobbs. No, make that three things: Mika's constant fawning and sighing. If I wanted to listen to yammering sycophantic bubbleheads, I'd watch the Today Show or Gretchen Carlson. Blech.
I used to watch Morning Joe just to see Courtney Hazlett. Ever since they banished her, there's no reason to tune in.
Morning Joe is wrong, cry me a river Chuck Todd, a few days ago according to you the public option was "dead." What the F**K do you know? The more they try to report the horse race the more they miss the real story. These reforms are passing, and they are far better then the status quo. God help the southern "rump" party if it thinks it is making any real headway.
Love the screen grab you put up, it all looks like they sucked on a lemon.
I used to enjoy Chuck Todd's analysis during the campaign, but he has reverted to his Villager status and has become the crybaby-in-chief, with David Gregory a close second. Neither one of these hacks did anything to question Bush's actions over the past eight years, they were right on-board and sucking up to whatever bullshit the White House was putting out. And now, to protect their corporate media bosses, they whine and bitch about how the current Administration is calling them out for the charlatans they are.
and it tells you all you need to know.
It's a pack of circus clowns.
You've got everyone's favorite senile racist uncle who's afraid of black people; Pat Buchanon, Angry Joe "forget about the dead staffer found in my office with her skull cracked open" Scaryborough, Karl Rove's favorite dance partner David "Stretch" Gregory, Mika "I have this job because of who my Daddy is" Bubblehead Brzezinski and Chuck "Remember what a good job I did with those electoral maps last year?" Todd.
I don't know who the other guy is, but no one can bestow credibility, validity or relevance to this bunch of coconuts.
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