Mac Thornberry Admits Systemic Failures But Won't Blame Administration Officials
By Heather Friday Apr 24, 2009 9:00am
Chris Matthews cites the Senate Armed Services Committee report to Rep. Mac Thornberry and although he admits there was a systemic failure in the prison he won't admit it came from the top and that Gitmo and Abu Ghraib are in any way connected. Thornberry like the rest of them are trying to turn this into a political issue. It's a legal issue and a question of whether or not there were war crimes committed. In Rep. Thornberry's world it's appropriate to punish the underlings but heaven forbid hold those at the top accountable for their actions.
I never thought for the life of me I'd see this many Republicans coming on the air and justifying torture. First it didn't happen. Then well okay, it happened but it was just a few bad apples. Now torture was necessary and down right patriotic if we were torturing suspected terrorists. All that other torturing that was going on...of course that had nothing to do with the policies that had us torturing the "bad guys". I've got to wonder just how stupid they really think most of the non-Sarah Palin worshiping American public is to buy this sort of double-speak.
I would also guess they're counting on no one ever watching this again.
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Thornberry is only admitting "systemic failures" (a nice, bloodless bureaucratic euphemism) as a means of being able to say he acknowledges there were problems without having to take any real responsibility for the decisions that were made to set the torture policies in motion. It's another political non-apology apology. Just listen to him verbally weave and dodge when Matthews forces him to listen to the report language that makes it clear the problems started at the top with the approval of the "enhanced" techniques.
Fuck em. I just cannot understand how these assholes sleep at night without constantly waking from nightmares in a cold sweat. Is every modern Republican a sociopath? No wonder old school Republicans like Lincoln Chaffee were glad to see their party lose power.
..that's true. The thing that Tweety might have pointed out is that the system was designed to fail, and that it was designed that way by a Republican Bush White House.
And seriously - doesn't Thornberry's modification of 'bad apples' to 'insufficiently supervised bad apples' deserve some kind of weasel-word award on its face?
Bush: We don't torture people.
Bush: We have a vibrant and strong economy.
Bush: Always wrong...
and he admitted to creating the program
arrest his ass
Arrest that lying, murdering scumbag now. dubya is such a poor liar ... notice all the stuttering and blinking he does while talking about the torture that America doesn't do.
Looks like a systemic failure in your graphic.
I never thought for the life of me I'd see this many Republicans coming on the air and justifying torture.
Twenty years ago cultural conservatives were apoplectic about Robert Mapplethorpe's S&M photos getting government funding somewhere along the line (apparently museums which got NEA grants displayed the photos; Mapplethorpe himself didn't get a cent of taxpayer money). Now they're coming right out and defending US officials literally performing S&M tactics on people.
So to set the record straight on what the Right believes:
Government torturing: good
Government money for institutions depicting fictional torture: bad
Post made of awesome.
Maybe we can poke a pin in the balloon of repub's support of torture just by saying, "You know, that's a little gay."
They'd all publicly drop torture like a hot potato. Even the ones who know all the best airport rest room moves.
... for a BJ and lying. Interesting principles and priorities from the righties ...
I'll be angry about that for the rest of my life. Repukelicans are backasswards.
Bush is a total stain to planet earth.
..ruling party for all these years and what they say should be gospel.
"I've got to wonder just how stupid they really think most of the non-Sarah Palin worshiping American public is to buy this sort of double-speak."
They think everyone, including their supporters, are stupid sheeple. Why else would they bray like they do?
Listen to this sick bastard and his pretty words. They have no respect for the rule of law or any fellow human...common criminals. Change the law on a fly to rationalize their wicked acts. Innocent Americans will die in the future because of this shit. Republicans have no heart.
..and they're lost in the OZone.
It's a legal issue and a question of whether or not there were war crimes committed.
It's a legal issue but there is no question.
... except when we do.
Sure we made mistakes, yes there's plenty of blame to go around but never the less we will continue to explain to people how many great things they can do if they were already rich like us.
The GOP is driving the whole narrative on the economy, torture, stem cells, taxes etc. I mean if the American people wanted republican ideology, they should have just been honest with themselves and voted McCain in office. I've just had it with the democrats. Reid, Pelosi, the whole rotten bunch. No courage, no morals. I'd rather vote for the other party. At least you know where they stand. Not these sniveling democrats that promise investigations and accountability then turn on you. They make us all look like fools.
What a crock. You know where the Democrats stand as well. You also know they don't have much of a spine either. Where have they promised investigations? Mostly, I've heard crap like "Impeachment is off the table."
Reid and Obama said no trials. No trials, no accountability. This is in direct opposition to what was told to me during the election.
They might as well be republicans. Obama can shove his 13 dollar tax cut up his ass.
He ought to be at least as visible as Cheney.
Where's Biden (Waldo)?
who were briefed on the torture? Say it ain't so, Joe, your mom would be so ashamed-maybe not..
thing is, Joe is such an affable guy and I really do hope it isn't so but Lensman and Mike make good points and wasn't warding off Repug attacks Joe's role? Seems to confirm our fears and Repug charges that full disclosure will cut a very wide swath.. Rule of Law! Jai!
..she did say yesterday, that Congress was briefed but use of torture was not among the topics.
Blue,
one of the most irritating things about the last 8 years was watching that sonuvabitch Cheney run his mouth. The Veep is just a few steps short of ceremonial position, from the way I have always been led to understand it.
But I suppose if you mean that maybe Biden could get his fanny out there and start firing back, saying the things that President Obama, the man trying to represent an entire country, can't, then I suppose I would be down with that. I might have to concede that the precedent has been set and that these days the Veep will be expected to be a much more active political force.
Or as one past vice president from Texas said about his office, it's "...not worth a bucket of warm piss."
In this Democracy Now! Interview (Oct 26 2005) Janis Karpinski draws a straight line from Rumsfeld (and Cambone and Gen Geoffrey Miller) to Guantanamo and from there to Iraq (Abu Ghraib) and Afghanistan. Now (three and a half years later) the Senate (Levin)investigation agrees.
Col. Janis Karpinski, the Former Head of Abu Ghraib, Admits She Broke the Geneva Conventions But Says the Blame “Goes All the Way to The Top”
this notion that the msm seems to be adopting--that torture is wrong but there must be allowances to use torture against the baddest of the bad in a fictional ticking time bomb situation--must be rejected firmly. it helps further the myth that torture works, that we only do it when we REALLY need information, that it might be a terrible thing but it serves a higher purpose. all these notions and assumptions are wrong. but i have heard it numerous times, in the msm, and from both parties. adopting this BS only helps condone the indefensible.
torture is only effective in getting people to say what you want them to say. which is handy if you are trying to start an unnecessary war (like iraq), but harmful if you want good intel. not to mention that in all circumstances it is fucking wrong on every level.
i listened to this interview yesterday. this is the right in survival mode. the party is falling apart as it is
revealing that torture was ordered from the top BUSH/cheney/rumsfeld/rice will further hurt their party.
i'm thinking more so than hurt the country but that will be the argument even from the left. that taking this too far will hinder us going forward during crisis. i still give obama credit he's letting this play out alittle. i say we deal with all of it but i'm not sure what lawmakers are saying behind closed doors. i still believe some people need to see how much damage the BUSH administration has done by way of use of the government and the private sector to this country.
Systemic: of or pertaining to a system (dictionary.com)
mac, you dip-$hit, the only thing that can be held accountable for a systemic problem is the body that runs the system. when the government, starting at the top which is what these torture memos prove, makes policies that change the system, and the result is a systemic problem, it is they who are most responsible. you can't have systemic problem and only hold the local actors accountable.
There has been no accountability. Only scapegoating the rank and file.
allso listen to the democraps, who voted for torture , palosi ried , jane harmon ect ect the list of democrats in on the torture band waggon reads like a whos who list in the halls of injustice, oh hey such hipocracy that the dimned down party hacks enjoy , look over there , its a rainbow , tears of joy ,oh sweet jesus thank the good lord no democrats were involved!
Apparently Pew Research finds that "nearly half say the use of torture under such circumstances is often (15%) or sometimes (34%) justified; about the same proportion believes that the torture of suspected terrorists is rarely (22%) or never (25%) justified." Let's repeat that: half the country thinks torture is okay.
If the full evidence is revealed, including extant videos of actual "harsh" interrogations -- multiplying the shock Abu Ghraib gave all of us -- those revelations are bound to change quite a few minds, leaving us with a nation which is largely horrified by torture. If, in addition, we have videos of squadrons of Republicans denyin' and lyin' about it, we'll have some pretty powerful political tools.
Keep track of those videos!
Says we destroyed the tapes ( but not the copies, come on people these aren't 8-tracks let's get digital,digital)
Theyre saying WE DONT TORTURE...and waterboarding doesnt count.
If they ripped your fingernails out, you should thank them for the free manicure....
Lest we forget, the Gingrich-led GOP p'd their pants to get impeachment and a special prosecutor for Clinton's supposed lies in a deposition while he was prez.
So the truth about conservativism rears its ugly head here: torturing people is A-OK, but behavior they deem "unseemly" and against their socially conservative ideals is a call for impeachment.
Sick, sick people.
democratic congressional leaders enable this bullshit. The hatred from the GOP over the blowjob was acidic. Here we have bonafide grievances and we get fucking crickets from the peanut gallery.
parrots of the party line ,um democrats would never aid and abet torture , nosir-re ,nope! never! its ..........only the republican party, democrats would never cover up ..... attrocitys! would they? no sir re , never happen ;;;;;;its only the republicrats!
blah blah blah...systemic failure...blah blah blah...not politically motivated...blah blah blah...lack of Congresional oversight...blah blah blah....Bush leadership...blah blah blah...breakdown of the SYSTEM...blah blah blah...investigations politically motivated...blah blah blah...WMDs...blah blah blah...kept us safe..blah blah...
mathews pointed out about a half dozen brazen lies and obfuscations. he needs to be more specific and then he needs to ask this douchebag republican to tell him which is which. and since he lied to us with a straight face then, why should we believe him now?
interview over. goodbye.
isn't helping. So they are caught in a lie? So what. At the end of the segment, they'll snuggle together and say "it's just difference of opinion" If a person is caught lying to the public on television, shouldn't that disqualify them from all discussions? In the past you used to be ostracized for being a known liar. Now they get top billing on the top news shows in America to lie again and again.
If Matthews catches someone in a lie, he should call them a liar, bring shame onto the liar, and explain to the liar why he'll never be a guest on his show again. End of discussion.
...the discussion is never over. I hate to pick nits, but I am not terribly fond of that phrase. But for the rest of your post: +1!
that Matthews should end the discussion. Sorry :p
Right! Hey, I'M the nitpicker. I be sorry.
But you know what I mean, I think:
i just see the phrase used way too often, mostly by conservatives and their duped constituents, to try and shut someone up.
Unfortunately, the republicans are running out of 'wanna-be' talking heads to put in front of the public to plead/spew the same ond talking points that have been TOTALLY debunked.
Thornberry looks like a reasonable guy but that schrade soon becomes only skin deep when he opens his mouth..Talking points straight from the Rush/Beck/Hannraty/O'Reilly machine - nothing more.
These folks are getting so lame it's become comical...then there is Michelle Bachmann...yikes...we're talking in a different dimension....
can we get a special prosecutor if it is true? since apparently that is the milestone you have to cross to get a special prosecutor.
hypocricy, thy name is republican.
!
"Everybody else is doing it too and so it is not our fault."
Aaaaah... personal responsibility for these folks means "pass the buck around"
In shrub's creepy little brain he believes he is telling the truth when he says "we don't torture people." He doesn't consider the detainees to be "people".
Kinda like Jeffrey Dahmer was surprised when he was arrested. He was sure it was all consensual. He would ask guys if they would like him to eat them and they said yes.
i believe like others torture was used/revealed as a strategy. i could be wrong, but the reasoning for the war was becoming flimsy/wrongdoing. they knew that before they declared war on iraq/al queda in iraq. i feel they knew they would use torture and reveal it to the world. they wanted to aggitate the opposition al queda, iran, and people in this country infavor of the war. i really believe there are NEOcons who believe they're superior intellects that think that commoners don't understand that bad things need to be done for the (their) common good. i somewhat believe the former administration and others knew beforehand that it would eventually/possibly be shown the war should NOT be based on a relationship between al queda/saddam and they had a prior thought out strategy to help continue the occupations/confrontations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7IutmQYrDY
But before site improvements, I could access the vids that were imbedded but now these are always stop and go. For instance the UTUBE in this story acts that way while the Tweety interview plays fine and if I go to UTUBE, the vids there play fine, and if someone links UTUBE or something else in these comments, those play fine.. just sayin..
there is something wrong with the site
embedded vids play like shit
Not fun to watch.
that will end the investigation
hell no
if dems knew about what was happening and they did nothing...fuck them too
Is this site anti-systemic?
I listened to this last night and it was just UNBELIEVABLE the crap that came out of this guys mouth. I do not know how they live with themselves.
Did you catch Rep. Dingleberry say that the President risks losing bi-partisan support on his agenda? What..... we may lose the support of Sen. Snow occasionally? We'll work around it.
"Systematic failure" was Bush''s forte!
Can one torture a prisoner so much they'll confess they weren't tortured?
Hi. I'm a Republican. We didn't torture, we saved lives. Anyone who thinks differently is being political and divisive. Obama said we might need to investigate further. He's campaigning. Anyone who thinks we tortured is destroying the country. Case closed.
Hi I'm a Republican. Gay marriage will lead to bestiality. Marriage is sacred. Anyone who thinks gay marriage is ok is destroying the nation.
Hi. I'm a Teabagging Republican. Although I support corporate America in every way shape and form which includes fighting for capitalism, it is morally wrong to raise taxes, even if it is for the top 5% of earners. Anyone who doesn't think this is destroying America.
Do we see a theme people?
Does he just not want to hear, or is he really that f*cking stupid he doesn't comprehend what Tweety is saying? "A few bad apples" MY ASS!! Try "orders from some bad apples to the ill-equipped military personnel"???
I am so glad I have NO repugs representing me in Congress or anywhere else. These sons-of-bitches are just brain dead, indoctrinated idiots. bauchman and lipstick-pig are their mentors. What a DEAD party. Once the old geesers die off, so will the party.
...and even dragged out "Blame-gaming" for Gods sake..
Thats so 2008 ...
Ya, let's not play the blame game over torture, murder, treason. Nice try republican.
Who is this guy - why is he indicting himself on behalf of a corrupt dead party??!?! Please continue dude, and bring out the rest of the republican criminals too.
"Systemic failures" means the so-called "failures" were planned and orchestrated by those from above. The people doing the torture don't all suddenly and inexplicably decide on their own to torture. "Systemic failures" don't coincidentally happen across the board.
I am sick and tired of these lying, dishonest Republicans who don't even have the decency to admit what is obvious to all of us because deep down, they believe, like a good Nazi, that the end justifies the means.
My understanding is that the Bush Administration justifies its actions by saying something isn't torture if it doesn't lead to death or organ failure. Am I getting that correctly?
If that's their definition then I think we should be able to dip Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Yoo, and all the other pro harsh interrogation types in water and then hook electrodes connected to a 12V battery to their genitals. Then we'll question them regarding their connection to this matter. After all a little shock to the teabag isn't going to lead to death or organ failure (except maybe for Cheney, sorry about that Dick, who could have known.)
You all can take your turn after I get done with them
In your name and in my name that motherfucker George Bush ordered the torture of helpless human beings.
Motherfucker. Motherfucker. Motherfucker.
Prison.
Then we put him in a prison cell with several hungry, flea infested rats.
After all none of that is likely to cause death or organ failure so it's all legal according to their definition. I'll have you know that I would never torture anyone or break the law in anyway
I watched this one , with Matthews help this Thornberry asshole made a complete fool out of himself . These Republican scum bags have no shame , no pride and no conscience , none at all .
systemic failure is the ability to go on TV.and Lie your
Ass off like Thornberry did. What a F--king Turd.
Thanks for the oldie but goodie from Bush. He reminds me so much of Jethro Bodine. Can you imagine that idiot was our president for 8 long years? Talk about a slow painful torture!!
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