Lieberman Says He'll Filibuster Health Care Bill That Includes a Public Option
By Heather Monday Nov 09, 2009 9:00am
In case we didn't get it the first time last week, Joe Lieberman went on Fox News Sunday and spat in Harry Reid's face again. So how's that promise from Joe Lieberman working out for you, Harry? We can trust Joe Lieberman, huh? Yeah right.
Transcript from Think Progress:
LIEBERMAN: A public option plan is unnecessary. It has been put forward, I’m convinced, by people who really want the government to take over all of health insurance. They’ve got a right to do that; I think that would be wrong.
But worse than that, we have a problem even greater than the health insurance problems, and that is a debt — $12 trillion today, projected to be $21 trillion in 10 years.
WALLACE: So at this point, I take it, you’re a “no” vote in the Senate?
LIEBERMAN: If the public option plan is in there, as a matter of conscience, I will not allow this bill to come to a final vote because I believe debt can break America and send us into a recession that’s worse than the one we’re fighting our way out of today. I don’t want to do that to our children and grandchildren.
Lieberman's promises are as empty as his rhetoric. And if Reid got any assurances from him, why is he coming on the T.V. again threatening to filibuster with the Republicans? This man should not be chairing any committees if he's going to filibuster his own caucus.
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Isn't there a procedural move that can go around him without 60 votes where they only need 51 or something. Where can I finde the rules? ?Everyone should be immersed in them looking for a bypas
from what i have read
Make the bill a spending bill and use 'reconciliation' and it can be passed by a simple majority.
However doing so would limit some of the scope of the bill because it would have to fit the definition of a spending bill. And of course Dems would be accused of ramming the bill down our throats and considering they don't even have the stones to stand up for putting into the bill what should be in the bill, they won't be doing that.
The Bush tax cuts for millionaire was pushed through using reconiliation.
The D's will go reconciliation if necessary.
If they do the bill will lose some of the best parts - no denial, no preexisting, no recission - to name a few
If Dems were willing to do what's necessary, they'd have pushed through a healthcare bill a long time ago.
and those things are taken out of the bill.....what's the point?? The only thing the bill would do then is deliver 30-40 million new 'premium payers' to the insurance companies, or, send then to jail for not following the mandate.
Only in America.... #:{
...the senator bought & paid for by The Hartford?
conscience with his wallet.
it's known as "how much can you contribute"
Google it.
This is THE #1 issue of the Democratic party's life deserving of life saving measures:
1. For those 30 Senators who wrote to Reid in support of the PO, they must demand that Reid strip Joe of his Chair and Seniority for repeated violations of his promises.
If Reid refuses they should use their 30+ majority + to strip 'leader' Reid of his MLoser position.
2. If Reid removes Lieberman, Reid can remain MLeader only if he gets off his a** and acts like one, and, gets a good bill with the PO and without Stupak.
You were right to say "forget 60". And remember Harry still couldn't get his job done with 51- so 51 is out too.
A procedural move is the only way to success now. And we have only 30+ Senators left willing to buck Reid and get it done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMgDeVh8F8U
I can't believe LIEberman was once an American.
Now he's just a lobbyist.
.
but why does this mammouth tool still have any committee positions AT ALL?
He should be stripped of every possible position of power - this is the path he chose, he should bear the consequences. Instead, he's being allowed to keep all his power. Why?
kidding. He is the bag man for the insurance industry. He "delivers" the "campaign contributions." He knows where all the bodies are buried. How else could one person be able to cause so much damage?
Dems are terrified with upcoming midterms of doing anything too dramatic. They're all secretly thanking Joe for preventing them from actually having to stand up and accomplish something.
Actually, if they are paying attention to the reason Dems gave for not coming out and supporting Deeds was because he said he'd opt out of the public option and he ran away from the Obama adgenda. 61% of the Virginia Democrats said that he was too CONSERVATIVE! They have some cold hard numbers to take a look at. See, if the country wanted a more conservative government we WOULD NOT have voted overwhelmingly for DEMOCRATS!
Dems are far more concerned about independents and moderates than their base. They're terrified of the ads the RNC will put out if they seem at all radical or progressive.
Fuck him...his votes and thoughts are like used toilet paper.
BTW, thanks yet again Connecticut.
... I apologize for having royally screwed us all. As a Connecticut voter.
Personally, I have not ever and will not ever vote for him. It's my belief that he simply doesn't care. His political career was over the moment he hitched his little red wagon to the "Straight Talk Express". It's all downhill from here for Joe Lieberman, so I'm thinking that he doesn't care what he drags with him on the way down.
that many of the voters of Connecticut are experiencing some pretty severe buyer's remorse. Would that they had the foresight to elect Ned Lamont when they had the chance.
Thanks for looking out for all of our best interests Joe. What part of "an overwhelming majority of Americans favor a public option" don't you understand?
Ned Lamont should run again with the slogan, "I fucking told you so, you god damned idiots. Hire me and I'll try to fix some of that shit."
I was going to post something similar, but yep! Spot on!
Hospitals companies such as Nashville, Tennessee-based HCA Inc., who also entered into a deal with the White House and Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, have held off many of the provisions of most concern. As part of that agreement, payments for taking care of charity cases would be reduced only if certain insurance-coverage levels are met.
Hospitals also will benefit from treating a greater number of insured patients, analysts said.
Other companies benefiting from new customers include pharmacy benefit managers, such as Woonsocket, Rhode Island- based CVS Caremark Corp. and Medco Health Solutions Inc. of Franklin Lakes, New Jersey.
Those companies will also be helped by incentives for greater use of generic drugs, which are more profitable to the benefit managers than brand-name drugs.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206010
Scrubbers got a call
If no one noticed during Bush's tenure, we passed a virtual monopoly on eprescription services with government incentives for people to use a particular network. (More information on this here.)
A nickel a prescription doesn't seem like much, but where were the free market whores then? Government guaranteed monopoly for private business seems far worse than government guaranteed care with no preference for certain businesses, yet the Republican controlled congress and presidency bent over as far as they could for it.
He's alredy said he'd vote for cloture. This means he'll allow the bill to come to the floor. I suspect that this is the agreement he's likely made with Reid who appears confident. Now, once that happens Lieberman would need all 59 Democrats to vote with him to remove the public option which they won't do. It's not about Republicans but Democrats. Deputy Droop Along is mearly whoring himself for tv face time yet, none of the so called reporters are challenging him. Remember, Liberman said that he would not vote for a bill with the public option but, the Baucus bill didn't have one and he still voted against it. He's full of fecies! What Reid should do is tell this clown that if he continues to go on tv with his bullshit, they will remove him from conducting an investigation into the Ft Hood shooting. This would be very embarrassing for the dwarft!
Old Ho Joe.
through Saturday. See if Joe gives up his Shabbat for that. I hear he's fairly orthodox...
to loathe someone so completely.
for a human being to be so blatantly hypocritical.....I know, I know. That's standard operating procedure in politics. I've just been around long enough to remember a brief period in time when politicians danced with the ones that brung 'em instead of the ones that bought 'em.
DUMP HIM...He's a Republican.
so Big Med-Insurance has lots of time to rewrite the bill to their benefit.
.
Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT) was all over TV promising to kill healthcare reform by supporting a Republican filibuster. Just hours after the House passed its bill, he repeated his threat on FOX.
Even though Lieberman campaigned against President Obama, Senate Democrats let him keep his chairmanship of the Homeland Security Committee because he promised to support Democratic bills. Now he's broken his promise.
Tell Harry Reid to hold Joe Lieberman accountable for blocking healthcare reform by taking away his committee chair.
in exchange for Her becoming a Democrat and voting Democrat. Good Dem, not the crappy faux Dems.
What I'd like to do is to test Joe's insurance policy to see just how effective it is. Of course, this would require some kind of injury or sickness to occur. One can only hope! I was thinking that it's good that he didn't become our Vice President but, then I realized that if he had, he wouldn't even be in Washington now!
Nov. 9 (Bloomberg) Pfizer, WellPoint Count on Senate to Soften House Health Bill
The only advantage I can see to this whole situation is that Lieberman is such a power whore that he can be easily brought off.
If Harry Reid really wanted this guy out of the way, he could do it. I suggest that he offers Lieberman the world. Seeing that Lieberman is such a power whore, and likes nothing better that the media attention being an obstructionist can bring, he would be quick to take the offer.
After the votes are counted, that's when you throw him not under the bus, but under the blacktop the bus runs on.
And as much as I hate to act like a Republican, Liberman deserves no better.
lieberman doesn't want the real "free market"....he wants no competition......the monopoly model. so Foolish. doing nothing will cost us big time. the current (r) model is basically doing nothing. providing "socialized" bailouts for financial institutions is okay but providing "socialized" health care insurance is not okay.
What the hell is it with Democrats being so fucking gullible? WHEN are they gonna get it through their heads that these people LIE???
Trust that snake? Are you fucking kidding me? When in the last decade has he ever told the truth or kept a promise??
GodDAMN, but I wish someone would gag him, tie him up and stuff him in a closet for the next twenty years. That's a voice we don't need to hear again EVER.
They know exactly what Lieberman is, and they use him for their own obstructive purposes, hiding behind a blowhard publicity whore. He just does what they want to do, but are to craven to admit.
I'm pretty sure as long as it's done on the floor of the Senate, by another Congressperson, it's all perfectly legal to beat, gag or do whatever you please to a member.
Here we go.
Now all we got to do is pick a good strong democratic hothead and mail him a suitable blunt instrument to use.
As the rest of America is trying to pay for and own health insurance, this despicable waste of carbon is demonstrating that the industry can pay for and own a senator.
Totally repugnant.
Pelosi was required to make significant concessions on abortion just to get enough votes to pass it either.
Few politicians will do the right thing unless forced to do so by the people (That's us). And I believe the people will force them, despite the astroturf tea party rage-and-hate-fests, and the $72 million (that we know of) paid to our representatives.
Many.
to these bills, and you'll see how quickly Lieberman changes his tune.
BTW, great political kung-fu by the Dem stablishment supporting this a**hole through thick and thin only to get to see Lieberman laughing at their faces over and over and over and over again. LOL.
FUCK YOU!
it was Obama's idea to keep LIEberman around. Reid, as worthless as he is, was trying to strip LIEberman of his chair when Obama butted in and told Reid how to run his house.
So perhaps you should be asking "how's that promise from Joe Lieberman working out for you, Obama?"
All members of Congress should get nothing more than what they give the rest of America. From Alan Grayson to Schmoe Liberman, Carrot-Boy Boehner to Huckleberry Graham.
And I'm also of the opinion that people representing the average American need to have the salary of an average American.
when we get the big money out of politics, we might have a chance to have a representative democracy. Until then, a plutocracy is the best we can do.
The perks are the problem. The payouts and gifts from corporations are the problem.
What's wrong with the people in Connecticut? They had a fine candidate in Ned Lamont. Yet they send Republican Joe back to the Senate?? I detect an epidemic of non-functioning brains in that state. Is it possible that having the distinction of being one of the original 13 states is going to their head?
And then there's Nevada. No doubt they have had some worthy candidates over the years -- including some Republicans -- and yet they insist on inflicting Harry Reid on this country! Why??
And then there's the Democrats in Congress, especially the Senate. I truly don't blame Republicans for what's going on. If the Democrats are going to sit on their dead butts and swallow what they're given without fighting back, then why shouldn't the Republicans -- including Republican Joe -- keep dishing the stuff out and making the Democrats eat crow, or crap, or whatever?
My late wife's favorite saying was "I hate stupid!" I hate stupid too. And the stupid that I watch and hear coming from Harry Reid and the Democrats is going to influence my vote in 2010 -- and not necessarily for the better for the Democrats.
Lieberman probably won because of voter fraud.
i'm sick and tired of these teabaggers crying out my "personal freedom". what about the "personal freedoms" of others. With the demographic(s) of uninsured and under insured growing at a rapid pace the medical bills that can't/won't be paid are SHIFTed to the paying pool/TAX payers. this absorbed
cost is becoming a burden to the middleclass. this is more put the cost on the masses. this cost shift is a hidden TAX that's forced upon people. that doesn't seem like "personal freedom" to me.
It has been put forward, I’m convinced, by people who really want the government to take over all of health insurance. They’ve got a right to do that; I think that would be wrong.
Translation: "Since I'm a right-wing authoritarian, I don't even notice that my ideology is based on an assumption of the worst possible motivations for my opponents. It's not that I disagree with them; it's that what they want for America would be evil and wrong. They've got a right to hate America, of course, but I don't hate America. Like the Democrats do."
as a matter of conscience
Translation: "Because it serves my political ambitions"
I will not allow this bill to come to a final vote
Translation: "Only Republican-demanded bills deserve an up-or-down vote"
because I believe debt can break America
Translation: "Scaaaary! Boogah boogah! Slippery slope! Think what MIGHT happen and then assume it WILL happen! Boo!!!"
What a piece of DC garbage this guy is. If only the Democrats weren't such a motley crew of competing special interests and corrupt pols.
I will be surprised if the final bill has a real public option. Most likely, it will contain the meaningless 'trigger'. And everyone will be saying.."well, it's a good first step." It's just astonishing to me that the Dems win the House, the Senate and the Presidency and still act as though they were defeated!
like the Democratic Party.
this is the way it will be with the Dems. They are more afraid of losing their cushy government-funded lives in politics than doing what the people who voted them into those seats want them to do.
to do with ANY committees in the Senate? Strip him of everything he does on ANY committee he sits on and leave him in the corner to rot. He's a traitor to his (former) party and the people he "represents".
That wouldn't be the "serious" thing to do, which is to look forward, not backward, to avoid playing politics or pointing fingers or "playing the blame game", and to recognize that on everything but the war, healthcare, global warming, reproductive rights, gay rights, Israel/Palestine, the economy, education, FCC regulation of free speech, Net Neutrality, campaign finance and who should have been elected President in 2008, Lieberman is with us!
bi-partisan crap. If the Dems could ever grow a pair and govern the way we voted on them to govern, we would be in better shape. Until then, nearly every senator and rep with a (D--Haha) after their name should change it to a RL--Rethuglican Lite. Truth in advertising, as it were.
Lieberman is waiting for someone to offer him more power and money then his insurance buddies before he shuts up and supports this bill.
It's time to chop off the political nuts of the Senator from Tel Aviv.
A balls-less democrat would be a pre-existing condition.
To Liberal AND Proud and westerberg:
Both of your sentiments are excellent and I am in full agreement with you.
So if being a balls-less democrat is a pre-existing condition, then let us who lean Democratic play "insurance company" and deny them the coverage of our vote. Next year, we all need to REALLY study the candidates, especially in the primaries. If the current Democratic critter loses the primary, he is forced to run on his own dime -- including those dimes from his corporate supporters.
I live in Colorado, and there is already talk that Betsy Markey, a Democrat freshman from the fourth district, is already in trouble for voting against the House health bill. We true believers can nail these people. A freshman can be eaten like a kernel of popcorn, but it is also possible and realistic to go after a long-termer. We just need more good candidates to run against them.
They are just trying to save face and are pretending they care about it to fool us, and there's nothing better than to allow a rogue, pretending to be progressive, traitor douche like Lieberman. I wonder if the health care lobbyists got to Reid's pockets.
Lieberman is doing his part to maintain the futile cycle of the two party system. That way "we the people" will NOT be empowered.Nothing or little gets accomplished except failure and another government pinanta for republicans/corporations to distract the public from corporate robbery. The republicans and the people that say they're independents are afraid the participants of the "public option" will have a "collective" voice. The republican lawmakers know if this "public option" is passed as robust/successful it would never be able to be taken away from the people republicans and democrats alike.
Don't you mean "feudal"?
no i meant futile cycle maybe inappropriate here but it refers to a biochemistry cycle term. what i was getting at Lieberman stands for more of get nothing done in washington. two opposing parties that end up getting nothing accomplished.
. . . who needs enemies?
Gotta love the "..as a matter of conscience, I will not allow this bill to come to a final vote.." jazz.
Now that's good wankin.
Perhaps one of the more progressive Senators will recommend that the healthcare reform bill be amended to include a clause that eliminates all socialist government run healthcare benefits presently extended to all federal employees, including Sentors and Representatives.
bingo.
When you have Joe Lieberman.
How this beast keeps getting elected is beyond me.
I'm guessing that since he opposes a public option, he has another option in mind for those of us who can't currently get insurance at any cost due to pre-existing conditions. Since that's the case, I will be sending him all past and future medical bills incurred due to the lack of Congress to do anything to fix this mess for the past 6 decades. They've certainly earned 'em. Here's his mailing address for anyone else interested in the "Lieberman Option:"
706 Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
....If your going to take away his chair....make sure he is first standing on said chair w/ a taught rope around his neck.....
touche!
Amen.
Put an amendment that says we will continue to give Israel their yearly stipend. LIEberman would vote in a hot second.
He would gladly dump another trillion into his beloved war in the middle east as well..."our children and grandchildren" be damned.
The fact of the matter is that with the money spent in Iraq and the extra money spent in Afghanistan (extra = all the money spent after we had driven Al Qaeda out) we could easily, easily I tell you, pay for health care without making employers/employees (because every god damn penny the employer pays for health care could go into the employee's pocket) pay a dime.
I had a conversation with an liberal friend recently that ended with her saying "at least now we know Lieberman can't be trusted." With due respect to that friend, most of us knew that years ago. I just wish Obama, Reid and the rest of the party leadership had figured that one out by January 2009 at the latest. Traitor Joe is a snake in the grass. He just can't help it; it's his nature.
> I just wish Obama, Reid and the rest of the party leadership had
> figured that one out by January 2009 at the latest.
Perhaps it takes a functioning brain to grasp that fact?
I truly hate to say this, but Obama is starting to come across to me as a store that has all its goods in the show window, but nothing on the shelves of the store itself.
Lieberman thinks he is above the average person. He thinks no one can touch him or remove him from power. In Lieberman's eye's you are dumb voters and only the rich insurance companies matter.
but none for the health of WE THE PEOPLE. Plus LIEberman gets to be a whore for the insurance companies, and his wife whores for the drug companies. A family of WHORES. Some brave Congresscritter should call them out (come on Alan Grayson). Let's see if Reid takes this lying down.
I just sent an email to Lieberman's office explaining that his job is to represent the people of CT, not think for them. The people of CT have made it clear that we want a public option no matter what he thinks!!
I sure hope Sleezerman does filibuster and that he's successful. I also pray that the senate kills this corporate-welfare mislabeled "reform" dead. It would be the end of his political career. It would also protect us from this awful corporate welfare legislation, written by insurance lobbyists.
Ironic, no?
If you really think HR3200 is good, read the damn bill.
Lieberman is in the pocket of insurance and pharm. So he would oppose even a good bill. He's just saying he'll go all the way in opposing, not merely vote against, anything that has a public option. And this bill, doesn't even have a meaningful public option.
. . . And she gets paid to do that—so Joe goes along, I guess.
Both Lieberman and Evan Bayh have spouses who have profited
from the healthcare industry." By: Joe Conason
http://*******.com/yzqyppk
Posted in Business, Congress, Healthcare at 10:26 am by LeisureGuy - -
The Lieberman family’s financial ties to the health industry are no secret, yet their full extent remains unknown. During her husband’s 2006 reelection campaign, Hadassah Lieberman's employment as a "senior Counselor" to 'Hill & Knowlton', one of the world's biggest lobbying firms, briefly erupted as an issue, especially because the clients she served were in the controversial pharmaceutical and insurance sectors.
Exactly what she did for those clients has never been disclosed.
Why does Joe Lieberman oppose healthcare reform? Ask his wife.
must go whether he votes wth us [democrats] or not. Time for us to rid ourselves of this pest.
that Democrats could pick up, it would be applied here. They need to buck up and eat their own young, by shredding Lieberman into mince meat and having him for lunch tomorrow.
"The nuclear option is used in response to a filibuster or other dilatory tactic. A senator makes a point of order calling for an immediate vote on the measure before the body, outlining what circumstances allow for this. The presiding officer of the Senate, usually the vice president of the United States or the president pro tempore, makes a parliamentary ruling upholding the senator's point of order. The Constitution is cited at this point, since otherwise the presiding officer is bound by precedent. A supporter of the filibuster may challenge the ruling by asking, "Is the decision of the Chair to stand as the judgment of the Senate?" This is referred to as "appealing from the Chair." An opponent of the filibuster will then move to table the appeal. As tabling is non-debatable, a vote is held immediately. A simple majority decides the issue. If the appeal is successfully tabled, then the presiding officer's ruling that the filibuster is unconstitutional is thereby upheld. Thus a simple majority is able to cut off debate, and the Senate moves to a vote on the substantive issue under consideration. The effect of the nuclear option is not limited to the single question under consideration, as it would be in a cloture vote. Rather, the nuclear option effects a change in the operational rules of the Senate, so that the filibuster or dilatory tactic would thereafter be barred by the new precedent.
read more
Joe, the Knesset called. They want to know if you're going to be joining them right after your term is over, or if you're going to go through the motions of running for re election again.
His arse belongs in the street next to all those who can't afford health care...and they should be told he's part of the reason why.
He wouldn't last 5 seconds after that...
... that any debt that the Health Insurance reform may create will be paid as soon as possible after the debt created by his advocacy of the Middle East wars are paid for.
Dear Senator Lieberman... Go ahead, you spineless piece of crap!... Filibuster!... Let the record (and C-SPAN) show the whole country where you stand and we'll see where that gets you.
Regressive a-hole.
"as a matter of conscience"
Oh, shut up, Joe. Like you have one.
At this point, this is alot of blustering. I would say not to strip him until he goes ahead with the filibuster. He is not polling well in Connecticut with Democrats and Independents. We won't forget it if he goes with the repugs and filibusters part of the Democratic party platform.
Harry "Tough As Nails" Reid will send a sternly worded letter threatening to NOT GET JOE A CUP OF COFFEE the next time they have breakfast together. That ought to put the fear of the allmighty into him..... Dems are such pussies.....
44,000 uninsured deaths a year vs. Joe Lieberman's ego.
Thanks a lot Connecticut, hope you are real proud of yourselves.
This guy is a complete tool, can Reid grow a pair and strip this guy of his seniority and chairmanship? For Gods sake, it's only the single most important piece of legislation to come down the pike in about forever,and he's not on our side? If someone wants to caucus with us, they should be expected to participate. If not, then any perks and honors that we conveyed upon his switch to being an Independent should be revoked.
Once again a so called moderate (SCuM) shows his true conservative principles, bought and paid for by big business. If we didn't start with our compromise, these guys wouldn't have anywhere to hide. Oh, you want compromise? Well we want single payer, let's compromise. FFS doesn't anyone on our side know how to haggle?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3LL338aGA
are there any other repubs we can lean on that might vote for the bill other than snow? I cant think of one.
Cao was a surprise to me but he was clearly convinced by pressure from the left. We have to look for repug senators in blue states but we've mostly knocked them out in the last couple of elections. If we can get Snowe, we can get Collins too. There aren't that many non bat crap crazy repugs left in the Senate.
I'll tell you what , I am a liberal progressive and I hope this farce of a health care reform bill DOES NOT PASS ! On a real public option, on real health care reform and on creating competition The Dems have completely and utterly failed , period . Now they are putting lip stick on this pig trying to sell it to us . It's not about the people now , it's about Obama and the Dems passing "something" so that they can say they passed health care reform rather than admit failure . I just wrote my Rep as a lib and a progressive asking him to go the Kuchinich route and vote no on this sham . Dennis is 100 % correct , this bill is bull shit , a friggin give away to the Insurance companies ! The opposite of what we wanted and voted for and the opposite of what we were promised ! Man , I am pissed and you should be too !In this case I hope Lie-berman succeeds .
...that I wish our president had his own "Hammer." Why doesn't he simply have Rahm call liebershit and tell him, "If you want to retain your committee chairmanship, if you don't want us to campaign either openly or covertly for your opponent in 2010, and if you don't want us half a mile up your ass with a pitchfork every fucking time you step the least bit out of line, you will drop this fillibuster bullshit now." It's not like it's never been done. Geez, there has to be a copy of the bush/cheney playbook laying around somewhere in the Whitehouse!
I wish the media would talk about the fact that his wife is a lobbyist for the pharmeceutical industry.
He should be stripped of his committee assignments, not just his chairmanship, IF he carries out his threat.
Full page ads need to be run in all major dailies detailing insurance company contributions to legislators. Lieberman is heavily funded by CT based companies. He represents AHIP, AIPAC and - if he has time - the electorate.
LIEberman was once an American but now he's a Corporist.
Maybe if they force him to filibuster and keep talking he'll finally just wear out and die from exhaustion. Best thing for the dems at this point, since they don't seem to have the balls to holster this tool.
On this subject, Joe Lieberman is a real piece of crap. Until recently, once for a Universal Health Care.. Now he's threatening to take down health care reform based on something he was original for. Not too far off the beaten path, the health care bills being proposed are real pieces of crap.
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