Larry King Live: Republican Circular Firing Squad
By Heather Saturday Oct 25, 2008 6:00pmFrom Larry King Live Oct. 24, 2008 the panel of Scott McClellan, Terry Holt, Lars Larson and Christopher Hitchens discussing the Presidential election ,McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as a running mate, Iraq, the surge and Palin's fruit fly comment.
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Ok you know what, I'll grant McCain reaching across the aisle to his fellow politicians. But over the course of this campaign its clear that Obama has powerfully reached across the aisle to connect with the people of the country, where as the McCain campaign has nauseatingly polarized the electorate, casting his opponent not as a worse choice, but as a dangerous choice. Sad. Very sad.
I hope C&L gets a video of the complete exchange and edits out the break comebacks etc. Missing in this You Tube excerpt was Scotty pointing out numerous examples of Obama's bipartisanship, plus some other gems. Last night McClellan was a much better press secretary for Obama than he ever was for Bush.
I couldn't believe my ears as I listened to two Republicans giving as good of a case for Obama '08 as any Democrat ever did.
I hope Obama will earn their respect after being elected and keep mine at the same time.
is up here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYf9zfi8Huk
I did not post the very beginning where he was just interviewing Scotty-boy but I believe the exchange you were talking about is included in that clip.
I love it when Hitchens says, "She claims she was saved...How does she know that?"
That is the best rejection of that particular bullshit about "I believe! I am going to Heaven!" i have ever heard!
How the hell does any "person of faith" know they are "saved?"
It's a work in progress.:)
All I can say is that after the election, I hope the people who know the truth get a chance to speak up. Joe Biden, are you listening?
born again christians/protestants believe in sola fides. if you believe you are saved. that's one of the things catholics disagree with them on. faith without corresponding action is mere lip service.
.....I couldn't believe my ears as I listened to two Republicans giving as good of a case for Obama '08 as any Democrat ever did.....
They have their reasons. And the fact that Joe Biden is the VP pick is probably the best reason of all, particularly in the case of Scott McClellan.
Republicans have made a huge mess in every area.
We will vote for Obama. We will vote for change. we will vote for equal rights to health care. We will vote for international diplomacy. We will vote for fair taxation. We will vote for a calm intelligent leader, and for HOPE!
God those republican liars piss me off.
Scott McClellan, has a new glow and seems refreshed. I guess it comes from not associating with all that right wing trash any longer.
noticed that he was sporting a tan
The surge, the surge!!
I am soooooooooooooo tired of hearing about The Surge (TM). Utter bullshit, just like everything out of this administration and the Republicans.
Do these assh**e Republicans remember this war has dragged on longer than WW2???? Yet they seem to think it started with the recent 'surge'.
Jesus, I hate these people!
Let's see how much they enjoy the surge that washes them away on 4 November.
The surge please! Republicans like to conveniently forget we paid local tribe leaders off to switch sides (we are now handing power off for the negotiated territories to them) and that is largely when tide turned.
They also love to forget it was about WMD's that were not there! NOT a regime change. Or that it was gong to cost us $1.7 billion and then pay for itself, greeted as liberators blah blah.
They also love to forget there pathetic argument was the no fly zone was going to brak the bank, obviously that is laughable today. The war has gone a long way to help break the bank and is partly to blame for our current fiscal hell. You don't double the national debt in 8 years and not have it cause a big problem, lest Republicans forget our national debt is foreign debt.
Every man woman and child in the US now pay over a dollar a day to pay just the interest alone on our foreign debt. Yes you got that right over $310 million a day on just the interest for our foreign debt. How many more wars will take to make two bucks a day?
that means the payments may stop
if the paymenst stop, that means the violence may return
bush has so fucked up this world
Shi'ite government forces have also been arresting (and in some cases, shooting or beating up) participants and political figures tied to the Sunni Awakening (which is what the payouts are euphemistically referred to). This revelation fell off the map and into the memory whole months ago so I'm not really sure where things stand now, but Iraq's really on the verge of unraveling completely at this point. There is still a dangerous level of animosity between certain factions in both the Shi'a and the Sunni populations, and the Kurds will probably declare total independence if we continue to allow Turkey to attack them across Iraq's sovereign border.
So yeah, the Surge was only a success insofar as the Republicans have turned it into a meaningless talking point that they can tout to "prove" that they're winning the war when, in fact, nothing has effectively changed since the first few months we toppled the old regime.
I liked how poor Scotty stood up for his positions. But. Too late kid. The truth is, if McCain was running a different campaign, they would all be cheering him on.
Scott McClellan did stand up for what (I do believe) he thought was right when he contemplated the full implications of what was going on in the Bush Administration during his time with them. He stood up when it was politically dangerous for him to do so, back in the days when a McCain victory was a 50% chance at worse. In that respect I give him more credit than Colin Powell, who only ever seems to do the right thing when it can no longer damage him.
He may have had the best point. Wasn't the surge a response to a failed policy in Iraq, and if it was, does that make Barack right about opposing the war in the first place?
"No" replies the talking head.
The most amazing part of that was Scotty, ardent defender of everything to do with Iraq policy, stating the war was unnecessary in the first place.
I don't know who looks worse Bush or Scotty.
Scott reminds me of an arsonist who starts a fire, but then tries to takes credit for trying to put the fire out...
I believe that he was lied to and was told to go out there and say whatever he was told. He was stupid to repeat those lies, but not knowingly complicit in the lies about the war. I also believe that he was completely disheartened when he learned that he had been lied to by Rove and others, and that it took him several years to accept that he had been lied to when it came to defending the administrations Iraqi policy (if that is what you want to call it). Now he has regained his personal strength and is willing to say what he believes about who would be a better President.
And i happen to like the guy.
Scotty didn't put everything he knows in his book. Maybe he's worried that the full truth will come out after the election and it's better to look like he's on Obama's side -- just in case some of Scotty's friends go to jail.
A little OT, but did Hitchens look utterly bombed? I thought he was about to throw up, yet he sounds quite sober, or at least lucid. Does he always look that shaky?
And no, the Repug pundits had nothing; they're spinning in a vacuum.
He's been constantly referred to as an alkie. I don't care, he's still often right.
by "right" i assume you mean neo-con...
seems to me hitch has steadily lost he ability to reason intelligently, even if he continues to eloquently advocate the most indefensible nonsense.
Neo Neo Con.
It is a remarkable condition for a one time Trotskyist. Perhaps the alcohol and nicotine combined with substantial royalties are conjoining to his discompose.
such a lovely accent..??!!
Despite his presently errant politics my appreciation of his relentless excoriation of religious charlatans is unbounded.
She is not even a First Reader!
that is what her first reader was
Now she has graduated to "See Sarah Smear!"
apparently she's never been interested in crackin' one open either!
My Pet Goat.
Is it possible, in Palin, we found a person even stupider than GW Bush????
she lacks intellectual curiousity
follow her record...she has street smarts...one must have some inate intelligence in order to get where she has today
bush is an idiot...he is where he is by accident of birth
she is, however, ignorant of the english language...it is really difficult to sit and listen to her mangle sentence structure and misuse words
there was a dennis weaver epi, where he was in this constant dream, where all the actors kept changing roles...
but you gotta hand it to lars...he will stick to those repug talking points no matter what
but it is wierd to see former cheerleader turn against their team
I am sorry, but i have to step up in defense of Conservatives here.
No, they are not all mindless drones and/or Nazis contrary to the popular meme on the left. I am a committed leftist and a radical, but i have to respect the people on the right when they actually use their brains. Rejecting the idiocy of the McCain Campaign is the responsibility not only of us on the left, but also any right winger who actually has thoughts and ideas. His inability to do anything right is obvious and although i do not agree with Hitchens' view on Iraq in many other ways he makes a lot of sense. Scott McClellan was in the White House and came away with a serious education rather than remain a sycophant. I have to respect that and i do.
Please tell the future Mrs X i said hello.
But I'd like to say something about your comment.
I somewhat agree with you on saying that not all of them are mindless drones.
Some of them are capable of critical thinking.
Sadly, the majority of the ones who are in favor of McCain/Palin.
Lack that quality. The rest are rethinking their situation.
Time will tell. 10 days and counting.
I cannot think of anything more frightening than a Palin presidency.
Hell, Joe the Plumber is contemplating a run for Congress in 2010 to take on Marcy Kaptur. More idiots wanting to run our country.
But Palin scares me more than anything. She is a total looney tune. End times, witch hunting, AK as the final refuge...scary, scary, scary.
Janet says hi. :)
There is no way i would defend anyone who is supporting McCain or Palin. It is obvious to me and it should be obvious to anyone with a brain that these two are either the dumbest pair to ever run for the White House or the most racist and they could be both.
Their hate is overwhelming and their unbridled ambition is downright dangerous!
look what has happened to the country and the world
for scotty to come out and state that obama was right...makes me sick to my stomach
the man stood there in front of america and the press and lied for a paycheck
and his lies caused people to die
for 30 years, we have been subject to a bullshit form of conservatisme
goldwater warned his party about the influence of the christian social conservatives...they didnt listen
hope they are listening now
hope that wing of the party can take their party back
i will still disagree with many of their views...but at least it will be a sane debate
Several McCain advisers have suggested to CNN that they have become increasingly frustrated with what one aide described as Palin "going rogue."
A Palin associate, however, said the candidate is simply trying to "bust free" of what she believes was a damaging and mismanaged roll-out.
McCain sources say Palin has gone off-message several times, and they privately wonder whether the incidents were deliberate. They cited an instance in which she labeled robocalls -- recorded messages often used to attack a candidate's opponent -- "irritating" even as the campaign defended their use. Also, they pointed to her telling reporters she disagreed with the campaign's decision to pull out of Michigan.
A second McCain source says she appears to be looking out for herself more than the McCain campaign.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/pa...
I hope she does show her real self. The voters will see what a fruitcake she really is.
watching them try to eat each other. McCain's people are going to try to skewer her, which is actually pretty ok with me, but if anyone things she is not a politico who can hold her own, she is that and then some. She earned that barracuda name.
that Gawd has a plan for her! She's really started to think that she
has a future in national politics - the talk about her being at the head of the ticket in 2012. As if??!!
who think the perfect 2012 team is Palin/Bachmann. Oh, do I hope that happens!!
I'm sure the Rethuglicans will run Romney/Palin in 2012
I don't think Mittens would dirty himself with Palin. He knows she's an idiot. Did you see his response on her qualifications for VPOTUS the other day. Uhm, well, uh, uhm...
I don't see her with anyone who has a clue.
I'd say Mittens is even further to the right than Palin- I had to endure that slime as governer of my state, and rest assured, he has zero ethics- but he realises the way to get support of republican voters is by singling out an enemy that everyone can hate.
The Nazis did that with the Jews-
American Republicans do it with gays, Muslims and immigrants-Latinos in particular. If Mittens runs, he will pick someone who shares his desire to sink to the depths in pandering to the very bigoted slime on the right wing-Palin fits that ticket.
But then again,if Mittens realises the only way to get elected would be to play the role of the moderate or liberal, he'll do that, and drop the right wing persona like a hot potato.. Here in Massachusetts, he was notorious for parroting the sentiments of whatever crowd he was talking to. Palin does the exact same thing.
Plus, I don't think their religions are compatible. I'm pretty sure that Miss Sarah thinks her gawd is better than Mitt's gawd. And, I don't, again, believe she'd go for the magic underwear also!
Hitchens was 100% dead on target in that Palin was picked just to appease the batshit crazy radical right wing...
I'm amazed that one of these nimrods still defended the war- even though ALL the reaosns for being there have been discredited.
There were never any WMDs, and never a threat from Saddam (who was a US made puppet in the first place)
For as long as I can remember on Australian and British TV, Christopher Hitchens has had that dishevelled appearance going on. People make the mistake of trying to make him out to be left wing (once) and now right wing. He (for better or worse) is his own man and doesn't neatly fit into one box.
Perhaps he prefers to be on the winning side, whichever side that may be. Republican Conservatism is dying, and he is a rat fleeing a sinking ship.
I have yet to see Hitchens reverse himself. He is not a wind watcher.
Hitchens is a master of reversing himself without it seeming as though he is. Take his abandonment of the Left. He said that, as a humanist who believes in things like human rights, certain things had to be understood as givens. Such as, it was a good thing the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc states collapsed. Certainly a different view than he held in the 70s and for a good bit of the 80s. But then, much to his "horror", the Left that he formerly associated with didn't view the collapse of Sovietika as an unmitigated good, so he claimed that they had changed their values, not he.
When it came to Iraq, earlier this year he wrote a piece in either Salon or Slate alongside other people who backed the Iraq War in a section called "What I got Wrong" - but he of course refused to admit that he got anything wrong. Instead, he changed the standards by which one should measure the war (a common tactic), and thus he was still "right", and "didn't change his position", even though what had been accomplished was considerably less (and often at odds with) what he had supported and predicted in 2003.
I rarely agree with Hitchens and I despise his current trend towards right-wing imperialism, but I have always respected the man's intellect and wit. I may not agree with him - in fact I rarely do - but I regularly listen to what he says and incorporate his well reasoned opinions into my worldview.
I agree that he is not easily fitted into a stereotypical box. He is not left wing. He is not right wing. He forms his own opinions and expresses them clearly. If there is anything about him that can be pigeon holed it is his intolerance for religion, but given his experiences I can hardly blame him!
A world without Hitchens would be a sad place to inhabit. I hope Hitchens' liver holds out for another 50 years!
play this old 1970's Lite Brite commercial while Larry's Show plays... i'm laughing out loud here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soFXG2FaONw
does anybody else think of Lite Brite when they watch Larry King's show? or am i all alone in this one?
Things are falling apart right now!
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/pa...
"She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone," said this McCain adviser. "She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else.
First Obama is the diva, now she is!
characterized as a horse race has now evolved into a boxing title match between Kid Rocks and O'll Grumpy. The undercard is the best part. It's all red on red. Even the refs are enjoying the show.
to the FSM. I only hope and pray.
If you look closely at the McCain/Palin Campaign the only rational response is to get away and stay away or to actively fight it.
Republican fears of historic Obama landslide unleash civil war for the future of the party
Senior Republicans believe that John McCain is doomed to a landslide defeat which will hand Barack Obama more political power than any president in a generation.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/us...
I thought the USA might be facing Civil War,, but it looks like it might be contained within the GOP. Oh well. Can't see we didn't try to persuade them to be sensible.
>>>> The prospect of an electoral rout has unleashed a bitter bout of recriminations both within the McCain campaign and the wider conservative movement, over who is to blame and what should be done to salvage the party's future. (I hope there is no future for these asshats ever again!)
>>>> Jim Nuzzo, a White House aide to the first President Bush, dismissed Mrs Palin's critics as "cocktail party conservatives" who "give aid and comfort to the enemy". (This is everything wrong with fucking Republicans right there!)
You may be able to get the elite (arisocrats) and the base (peasants) stirred up on some of the same issues, but the peasants and aristocrats really have nothing in common. They mix up oil and water, and wonder why it keeps separating.
HuffPo is saying she's "unhinged", and there is a clip of her in Iowa invoking Communism under Obama (to which the crowd cheers). I guess Socialism wasn't scary enough with 9 days to go.
"Al Qaeda" is next.
Really, you ought to see the clip. "What's yours is not yours, it's everyones, and your freedoms will be taken away." Communism methinks.
Haven't they sort of played the Al Qaeda card already: Obama gives terrorist fist bumps. See they start that with a FUX bimbette, and if it flies, then he's Al Qaeda; case closed.
and I am so fucking scared for what will happen when Obama wins. They are encouraging domestic terrorism with all of this inflammatory talk. I have never seen anything like this in my life.
I urge you to be hopeful when Obama wins instead. What will their arguments be when the planet does not explode after his inauguration?
some nut thinking Obama is a terrorist, Manchurian Muslim, commie, pinko fag. I mean, honestly. Did you see this?
http://jonswift.blogspot.com/2008/10/great-mo...
All gathered from wingnutosphere.
These idiots will always be here with or without Obama. If you have noticed the last eight years with Bush in office were much worse.
I got pretty frightened of my country when the whole Dixie Chicks thing happened. That was when I realized that the First Amendment was in serious danger. When you can no longer speak out against your government without fear of retribution, you live in a banana republic.
Did you see this? 26 anti war protesters were arrested and charged.
http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/charges...
It seems to me they committed Civil Disobedience which i not only applaud but i have been arrested for myself over 30 times. Being charged comes with the territory.
You're not allowed to peacefully protest any longer?
Blocking shipments or even a sidewalk is illegal and i am sure all these folks knew that.
Every time i was arrested (except once) i was expecting it.
.
?
Oh, i see. You were referring to "Free Speech Zones."
They used to be bordered by the Atlantic, Pacific, Canada and Mexico.
Actually they still are and if you want freedom you have to be willing to give it up on occasion.
as written by Kris Kristofferson,
'Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose'
Well, seems we've lost freedom as well...
i'm always scared for obama's security especially when shaking hands with people in the crowd. i sure hope that park in chicago is super secure on the 4th.
it only takes one organized and determined nut...
If the surge has worked, why aren't the troops home?
For the last 2 years, I loved the fact that I haven't had to listen to Terry Holt!
Now he's back, and he still can't answer a question.
He changes the subject all the time. Larry asks him about scientific research and....sorry...my bad! I forgot. Repugs don't believe in science!
McClellan is a complete lightweight, even afer he found his conscience.
He IS a lightweight, as is most of the gang running the City of Austin and Austin Energy, including the naturalized Kuwaitis.
I actually wrote LKL after this night's episode (Friday) with some accolades (first time). One- was Larry King telling the simp giggling that making fun of the fruit fly research was "not funny" (unheard of on cable or network TV) and two- please, please, please give me an hour of Hitchens vs. Buchanan.
Ever since I saw her say (I'm paraphrasing) "Mr. President, we've come home" with rapture-like glee as Harriet Miers (sp?) was removed from the A.G. of the S.C. nomination, she has run rough-shod over any and everyone who opposes her on whatever show with seeming impunity. Hitchens has his share of warts but he seems to be about the only one willing to call these cretins out in real time. Yeah I know, Libs want to let everyone finish their sentences and be nice and sweet and not offend (goddamn poppycock)... Hitchens gets points for stopping and calling out lies as they happen in real time (and I love the grunts and groans and interruptions - Christ, they're warranted!!!). THAT gets my respect more than... respect for other opinions 10 times out of 10. Especially an educated opinion.
The Bay Buchanans of the world need to be marginalized... with prejudice.
left of the far right
Hubby and I knew him long ago....trying so hard to make up for his father in Tillamook.
Lars, you were a person trying to make a name back then, trying to gain some sort of persona.
Now you have, but it's such a sad one. I'm sorry your father was the town drunk, but get over it. Get over the HATE.
Yikes, THE SURGE. That's all the Republicans have. That's it, nothing else.
McCain has run a terrible campaign and Obama a great one. And yet McCain is supposed to be the one with great judgement. I just don't know where people like Larson are coming from.
Please, Palin is so clearly a hack, a gimmick, a terrible decision. And we're supposed to elect her. Please.
I know some of these guys are a bit... cruddy, but let's not forget most Americans don't tune in, and might just be tuning in this last week before the election. Seeing Republicans for Obama on TV is demoralizing for themm, also for "true conservatives" (c'mon you "party elite", Colin Powell's endorsement stung). Any voice for "us" is always good. Many Americans don't know what happened last week, never mind a few years ago. They don't know anyone but Bush.
And if you cruise the net, you'll see the news of an internal GOP cicivl war brewing.
We can trash them after the election. (Powell, McClellan, Hitchens-- although Hitchens is a "maverick" of sorts. Ducks flying objects, and leaves here.)
Lest anyone get too excited about all of these right wingers supporting Obama:
http://gabrielstangent.blogspot.com/2008/10/o...
They want power. They want to be seen as credible sources, despite the fact they all were enablers of the worst administration in history.
Is it just me or does anyone think that Lars Larson-(that can't be his real name!)is a real asshole? I didn't see anyone comment to say that. Well here it is. He's an asshole. Never have I heard him say anything that is well thought out, rational, and believable.
Brad Blakeman
Nancy Pfotenhauer
Nicolle Wallace
Pat Robertson
Gee...the list could go on and on.
... a gop trait now being used for a democrat
you got to love the way scott mclelland talks over lars larson. democrats are too nice; when cut off they stop. mclelland doesnt stop, and finishes his thought.
is just another walking talking point, period. Do any of the mindless pukes on the right ever have an orignal thought of their own? If they ever do it will die of loneliness.
Repugs claim Mrs Palin is fully qualified, has all sorts of experience, and then turn right around and say Mr. Obama does not. They want if both ways. Hypocrisy & double standards are showing again
Watch the rest of the conversation on Palin mocking scientific research on fruit flies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGMWdDNMpZY
...another play to the "surge" and the "doesn't support the troops" meme. Why nobody points out the Repuglicans' tacit hypocrisy on that issue, I'll never know.
The republicans that are calling the surge such a huge success and a sign that we can win in Iraq are exactly the ones that supported Bush through his firing of generals that told him before we even entered Iraq that we'd need more troops. It's a tacit admission, allowed to escape in the darkness of night by the media at large, that the surge proves that generals like Shinseki were right all along. Further, the surge is a repudiation of the Bush "we don't talk to terrorists" non-diplomacy, because we shifted the strategy, we didn't just add troops.
But these right-wingers continually get away with mouthing patent falsehoods in the open. Whether they get away with it and still lose the election, I don't care. They are wrong period, and it's not enough (for me anyhow) to see them lose. I want their moral and intellectual vaccuity out in the open for all to mock roundly.
Hitchens isn't a Republican.
I don't like this, rethugs dominating the debate. I don't care if they're all going to vote for Obama. I want to see true Obama supporters taking on the rethugs and winning, not these johnny come latelys.
Let's not get comfortable.
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