April 27, 2009 05:30 AM
John Meacham to Peggy Noonan: Americans Can Handle the Truth
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If I had only been listening with half an ear I would have thought that I was hearing some very stoned woman having a stream of consciousness conversation with herself at a Grateful Dead concert. I half expected her to bring up the dolphins again. What in God's name is she smoking? And why is she on my TV?I think I understand Glenn Beck now. He's channeling Peggy Noonan's schtick, but adds an eight-ball of coke to the emo-cocktail that takes his phony compassionate crying to a new level of absurdity. They think they will look more credible if they seem to care more than you or I in the fuzzy dice kind of way.
ZAKARIA: Let's talk about Obama and terror, because that's another part of this whole puzzle. You've had Dick Cheney giving a very unusual interview in which he says, effectively, Obama is weakening the country and setting up a scenario where, if there is by some chance another attack, it could be seen as Obama's fault. You know, other Republicans saying that he should have kept in place all these provisions regarding torture, regarding whatever else, in order to fight the war more vigorously. You've had a little bit of a controversy around all this, Peggy. You think that the memos about torture should have been released, but we should have moved on, or should never have been released? NOONAN: Oh, it seems to me the world knows that things were done wrong. I think Obama has made it clear, coming forward, that his plans are to leave that old stuff behind. There is always a temptation to focus on what the last administration in its mistakes did. I think the problems that are here, however, are so pressing, that sometimes you've just got to stop and say, "That was then. This is now. Move forward." MEACHAM: Winston Churchill said that the British people can face any misfortune with fortitude and buoyancy, as long as they are convinced that those who are in charge of their affairs are not deceiving them, or not themselves dwelling in a fool's paradise. The American people can do that, too. We can handle the truth. The covenant of modern democracies is, give it to us straight and we will do what it takes. And as General Powell, I think, once memorably said, you know, we've gone abroad many times, and the only thing we've asked for is the ground in which to bury our dead. I think that governments have to be responsible, because governments are us. I mean, otherwise, the entire idea of civic and republican -- lower case "r" -- virtue collapses. So... ZAKARIA: So, you would be comfortable with investigations? MEACHAM: Sure.
ZAKARIA: Walter? ISAACSON: I actually agree with Peggy on this, which is, I'm glad that they were open about it. But I very much like President Obama's speech at the CIA, in which he did say... NOONAN: Yes, so did I. ISAACSON: Yes, OK -- in which he did say, don't be disheartened. What you do is very important at the CIA. And we're not going to try to prosecute or go back and criminalize what was done in the past. NOONAN: That's good. ISAACSON: If people want to hold hearings, OK. But let's not dwell in the past. And certainly, let's not make the CIA, which is trying to do the right thing, feel that somehow they can now be subject to criminal investigations. NOONAN: I thought that was excellent. I thought it was sensitive, and it was smart, and it was sophisticated. And it was helpful towards an agency that understandably feels beleaguered. ISAACSON: Which I thought was also typical of Obama, to be able to get the balance there. MEACHAM: And I'm not sure... NOONAN: You're an (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Come on. (CROSSTALK) ISAACSON: You're agreeing with me on this. NOONAN: Well, I'm agreeing with you on that appearance. It was really good. (CROSSTALK) NOONAN: It was smart. It was good. MEACHAM: ... I do -- I would be very reluctant, particularly since the lawyers at the administration were telling everyone that it was OK. But in terms of... ZAKARIA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) investigation... MEACHAM: ... in terms of investigations, here's what happened. Are we a better or worse country because of the Church Committee? ISAACSON: No. Although I would much rather have Senate investigations on how we got into this economic mess. I'd love to know... MEACHAM: We can do both. ISAACSON: ... you can't even remember what AIG did... (CROSSTALK) NOONAN: I want more journalism. I want more investigative journalism. I want these two gentlemen to... ISAACSON: We've got to say, the journalism for all three of us. NOONAN: ... look into everything. But we do, indeed. That's a bigger threat. ZAKARIA: On that note, Jon Meacham, Peggy Noonan, Walter Isaacson, thank you very much.
NOW!
She may swoon at any minute.
I repeat: this woman has more objectionable affectations than any other human being in the world.
woodguy
But she just came off as pathetic.
Seriously, she has the most condescending "mommy knows best" attitude I've ever seen.
long suffering the ills of the world, Peggy soldiers on, the regency depends upon her and Heritage demands no less .. still it is difficult, so difficult, people are so..so.. you know.. and Peggy is just a princess, but still, she must try, must somehow get them to understand, must get them to feel as she feels.. oh she knows they're a crass lot, she knows their tastes, their foibles, she's endured much in their presence, she's under no pretense, but still she will try, she must try, our very way of life depends upon it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddTBeNv9PwQ
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvgM1UiKIIQ
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Lord have mercy on this woman's poor husband.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hes_UFHmB4I
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
That must be why she has the long face.
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaHLlGtOZbg
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
... when we can't even be honest about our mistakes?
Isn't she the one that said that Palin was an arrogant choice? Good to know she's back on the ranch!
Maybe we should be looking at what won her back, and start fearing more of that!
..until the past has been squarely faced. There can be no lessons learned if we refuse to study the lessons themselves. Our future cannot be improved or safe-guarded if there are no precedents of justice established. Mr. Obama must be assisted (or compelled)to understand this.
BTW, any study of the past must include the media's major, complicit role in the wrongs and the crimes that were committed.
... as the GOP. I mean, here we are with yet *another* kaffeklatsch about whether or not torture is right or wrong, whether we should prosecute or 'look forward,' and the media thinks they're simply reporting the facts.
The media is trying to cover its own arse. The precedents established in the aftermath of the Rwanda genocide should have been instructive to it. The media's vested interest is seeing that the whole thing is swept under the rug and forgotten.
time I have agreed with Meachem...but then again he knows our politicians are not honest so the truth will not come out!
Unless , Obama lets the public run with this a while longer...Note Holder is abroad this week...good timing I think! Maybe he is getting the temperature of the allies and other nations!
...The statement made by Mr.Obama and others that we cannot "criminalize events of the past" arises from a very dishonest premise. Those acts were criminal when they were committed, under our own laws, international law and under treaty. A simple legal opinion that was crafted solely in order to skirt the laws is invalid on its face. Such efforts duplicated, exactly, an effort the nazi government undertook to achieve exactly the same ends. Nuremburg made short work of that subtrefuge.
Haven't we been reminded about all the dastardly things of WWII and the punishments meted out for 60 years? Wasn't that so we wouldn't be blindsided again by some other creep (or bunch of creeps)like Hitler and his merry SS men?
The things enabled by Cheney/Bush and all of there neo-cons lawyers were clearly illegal, based on US and International laws There is no questions about that!
Time to investigate, prosecute and incarcerate.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Paul...........I so totally agree!! Right at this very moment, the winner of the Nobel Prize for real Journalism is being suppressed, and his work, too, because of it's scathing, indictement of the BUSHCRIMEFAMILY. I think the author's name is Bartlett?
'Librul Media' more propaganda!!
who talks likes she's reading a bedtime story to a 1st grader.
she's just not a "player" in the eyes of the male dominated GOP.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Treason is never a mistake but it is a mistake not to name it TREASON. Nuremburg 2.0 has to happen , It's where we'll find our lost humanity. They are called War Crimes Tribunals.
Empty the jail cells and fill them with war criminals, all of them From GW bush to the guy that mopped up the blood off the floor. ALL
!!
Kudos!
Right now, we have a festering wound. If we do nothing, it'll turn gangrenous and endanger the whole of the Republic.
Meanwhile, the GOP is telling us we should 'look forward' to the day that we're up and frolicking in the fields, and the media is playing, "Well, there's a chance the limb won't turn black and fall off, isn't there?"
That is a very apt description.
I think she's about to go down with clutched pearls in hand.
...swine try and cast pearls.
http://comics.com/pearls_before_swine/
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The guy at the 1:10 mark is looking at Noonan like "is she trying to win an Oscar for this performance?"
I think Peggy is in a perpetual orgasimic after glow. It all began with her days with Ronald Reagan. Each time she closes her eyes she feels it again.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
..by all American and International Standards.
PERIOD, END OF STORY and no amount of wishing it away or looking forward is going to change that.
Special Prosecutor now - time is running out!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
We need to be outraged. Everything that was done or written needs to be investigated.
..I don't make the call on when to or who to appoint as Special Prosecutor. I can only make sure that no one forgets what was done and who was responsible and I know, innocent until proven guilty but I also know that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, there's a real urgent need for a Special Prosecutor.
I can handle the truth! I'm not so sure about W and his band of thugs and their supporters.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
I don't know how relevant this is on a thread on torture
But aren't I mostly relatively relevant?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWU7FxQIsoM
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Kinda describes my mood today too.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
So now one of the big guns of the GOP is shrieking...
"MOVE ON!!"
...?
Let's pause for a moment to savor the irony here.
The crimes and follies of the Bush gang in this regard go beyond torture: about 100 detainees died in our custody, and at least a third of them are confirmed or suspected homicides. Beaten to death.
But torture and brutal murder are not as heinous as...oral sex.
Thanks for that comment.
This past weekend, Seymour Hersh described the sodomy of suspects' children, wives and the suspects themselves as a weapon in questioning. Americans can handle that truth, investigate, try and execute, when appropriate, those who implemented those tactics.
Oh dear Peggy... she could be the reincarnation of June Cleaver... Her sighs and gasps and dramatics while she speaks does look like she is stoned... half the time she seems incoherent. Plus her take that we should "just move on" is ridiculous and typical of conservatives who refuse to take responsibility for their mistakes ever. We won't forget EVER!
but no one's there evidently...this shit was in my inbox this mornin...
I really don't think I can be friends with this person anymore.
"The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Mr. Obama:
I have had it with you and your administration, sir. Your conduct on your recent trip overseas has convinced me that you are not an adequate representative of the United States of America collectively or of me personally.
You are so obsessed with appeasing the Europeans and the Muslim world that you have abdicated the responsibilities of the President of the United States of America . You are responsible to the citizens of the United States . You are not responsible to the peoples of any other country on earth.
I personally resent that you go around the world apologizing for the United States telling Europeans that we are arrogant and do not care about their status in the world. Sir, what do you think the First World War and the Second World War were all about if not the consideration of the peoples of Europe ? Are you brain dead? What do you think the Marshall Plan was all about? Do you not understand or know the history of the 20th century?
Where do you get off telling a Muslim country that the United States does not consider itself a Christian country? Have you not read the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution of the United States ? This country was founded on Judeo-Christian ethics and the principles governing this country, at least until you came along, come directly from this heritage. Do you not understand this?
Your bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia is an affront to all Americans. Our President does not bow down to anyone, let alone the king of Saudi Arabia . You don’t show Great Britain , our best and one of our oldest allies, the respect they deserve yet you bow down to the king of Saudi Arabia . How dare you, sir! How dare you!
You can’t find the time to visit the graves of our greatest generation because you don’t want to offend the Germans but make time to visit a mosque in Turkey . You offended our dead and every veteran when you give the Germans more respect than the people who saved the German people from themselves. What’s the matter with you?
I am convinced that you and the members of your administration have the historical and intellectual depth of a mud puddle and should be ashamed of yourselves, all of you.
You are so self-righteously offended by the big bankers and the American automobile manufacturers yet do nothing about the real thieves in this situation, Mr. Dodd, Mr. Frank, Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelic, the Fannie Mae bonuses, and the Freddie Mac bonuses. What do you intend to do about them? Anything? I seriously doubt it.
What about the U.S. House members passing out $9.1 million in bonuses to their staff members – on top of the $2.5 million in automatic pay raises that lawmakers gave themselves? I understand the average House aide got a 17% bonus. I took a 5% cut in my pay to save jobs with my employer. You haven’t said anything about that. Who authorized that? I surely didn’t! Executives at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will be receiving $210 million in bonuses over an eighteen-month period, that's $45 million more than the AIG bonuses. In fact, Fannie and Freddie executives have already been awarded $51 million – not a bad take. Who authorized that and why haven’t you expressed your outrage at this group who are largely responsible for the economic mess we have right now.
I resent that you take me and my fellow citizens as brain-dead and not caring about what you idiots do. We are watching what you are doing and we are getting increasingly fed up with all of you. I also want you to know that I personally find just about everything you do and say to be offensive to every one of my sensibilities. I promise you that I will work tirelessly to see that you do not get a chance to spend two terms destroying my beautiful country.
Sincerely,
Every real American"
What a total load of horse shit.
I have a feelin that some of that stuff is a figment of his/her imagination. I could be wrong though.
They're capable of anything. And I do mean anything. This won't end till 2025. Oh wait, we're talkin a black guy. This won't end.period.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
This is probably something written in a Faux Noise panic room.
And then passed around the web to the idiots who actually believe this garbage.
So your saying he might have just forwarded it too you so you can read it.
My reply would be, please don't send me this stuff. And if you do, don't send it to me early in the morning.
One of my friends used to send me this kinda stuff all the time. That and all the stupid jokes about Dems.
I asked and asked and asked him to stop.He didn't, He thought it was funny.
But he made a mistake. He left the addy from where it came.
I filled the guys in box for weeks.
And I wrote my friend calling his friends stupid MoFo's .
I was really angry. I let it show. No more stupid emails.
The moral of this story is don't send me stupid shit in the mail, and I won't bother you. I don't go looking for trouble.
And I don't enjoy having to deal with it.
But when my inbox is full of bullshit in the privacy of my own home. Then I get pissed off.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
... purporting to be a commentary by Andy Rooney, which had a number of things I found offensive.
I pointed out to my aunt that this was not anything Rooney had said, that his commentaries were available on the CBS website, and that maybe she should check with the family member (me) who works for a CBS affiliate before sending nonsense like this to everyone.
I haven't gotten a chain letter from her since.
Hey Shadowgm, I work with a bunch of Right-wing loons and I used to get these e-mails constantly and the way that I dealt with them is to speak truth to BS. Most of these e-mails have a grain of truth, but are about 90 percent bull crap. Generally if you go to Snopes, they will point out all of the falacies. I "reply all" with the Snopes facts on the e-mail and call it what it is. Right-wing propaganda that uses hate, fear, and falsehoods to generate an emotional response i.e. "They are using you, you tools!"
I seldom get the e-mails after that, but would be very interested in running down the sources on these.
Great idea.
but no one's there evidently...this shit was in my inbox this mornin...
I really don't think I can be friends with this person anymore.
"The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Mr. Obama:
I have had it with you and your administration, sir. Your conduct on your recent trip overseas has convinced me that you are not an adequate representative of the United States of America collectively or of me personally.
This "letter" from this ditto-head is quite the rant... complete with all of the talking points and bitching of the last month from his heroes on the radio and the biased Foxvda.
Fuck him. This letter is laughable --- just like the shrinking corrupt conservative movement.
if obama is not a real american, then what exactly is he? we know he is american but apparently he isn't real. if this is the case, they need not worry since unreal things usually have little impact on real things.
since i'm probably not a real american either i'm having a serious existential crisis right now. maybe we should withdraw citizenship from unreal people. this should be easy since they don't seem to exist. or maybe we should set up a two tier system of citizenship so there will be a-class and b-class citizens. maybe we just give the b-class unreal americans like two thirds of a vote. oh wait....
"You are so obsessed with appeasing the Europeans and the Muslim world that you have abdicated the responsibilities of the President of the United States of America . You are responsible to the citizens of the United States . You are not responsible to the peoples of any other country on earth...
...Sir, what do you think the First World War and the Second World War were all about if not the consideration of the peoples of Europe ? Are you brain dead? What do you think the Marshall Plan was all about? Do you not understand or know the history of the 20th century?"
_____________________________________________________________________
Aren't these contradictory thesises? I would call this a classic example of arguing non sequiturs.
__________________________________________________________________
"Where do you get off telling a Muslim country that the United States does not consider itself a Christian country? Have you not read the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution of the United States ?"
___________________________________________________________________
Obviously this writer's never read them. Other than a few vague references to nature's god, in the Declaration, and no reference to Deity at all in the Constitution, and no mention of Jesus in either, there's no basis for this complaint.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
NOONAN: I thought that was excellent. I thought it was sensitive, and it was smart, and it was sophisticated. And it was helpful towards an agency that understandably feels beleaguered.
Beleaguered? Good Lord...welcome to the club. The past 8 years have been the most beleaguring years of my adult life and I doubt that having torture remain a "mystery" is good for my beleaguered soul.
Peggy Noonan--get out of politics or whatever it is that you are in and move to a gated community and host some fund raisers or play some golf or play some bridge. Or something. Please!
Until the henious war criminal, BUSH, the sock-puppet for the PETROLEUM/Military/Industrial complex. That is what an honest Colin Powel would have said, BUT, in Iraq no matter the propaganda, the US is still there to steal the oil, and to punish the nations across which the PETROLEUM MAFIA's precious pipeline to BLOODYISRAEL is going. US is stll holding Iraq hostage as a demo to the other offending nations. This is just like sock-puppet's refusal to recognize a legitimate gov. elected by the PEOPLE, Hamas.
Not even mentioning Haiti.
These people have been wrong about everything and now we have to listen to them saying Obama is weakening America? These people were asleep at the switch and allowed 9/11 to happen yet they blamed that on Clinton, now that they have created more terrorists in the world with our foriegn policy and our torture of prisoners and they want to say "if you stop it we will be less safe" - screw these people and please get them out of my government!
I also read a story today that said most families of fallen soldiers allow media coverage of their loved ones coming back from Iraq in flag drapped coffens and that none of the images have been exploited as these fools predicted, once again the right is wrong in telling us that it was for the families sake that they prevent the media from covering the true cost of our wars.
Anyone paying attention knows this was to shield Bush 41 from the embarrasment of the American people seeing him joke around on 1/2 a screen and on the other 1/2 it showed the dead soldiers returning from his bullshit Iraq war - Why is it then when a Bush sends our soldiers to die they feel it's the right time to make jokes? - Oh! I Hate These People!
like she's higher than a weather balloon or half dead. I can't stand hearing her talk. It's not just her voice and her strange "breathiness" but it's also the nonsensical blather she spouts. That's OK though -- the more these right wing whack jobs try to pretend to be intelligent and rational purveyors of what is pragmatic, the more they turn people off.
This ignorant Reagan cultist was all for a Starr Chamber for a conseual blow-job.
What a loser.
-G
CNN was just covering a live speech by the President at the meeting of the Academy of Sciences and he was beginning to talk about the part science would play during his administration in the future. At that point CNN cut away to talk about swine flu. Remember back when every time bush spoke anywhere it was carried live in its entirety? CNN said they would monitor the speech for us. Well, I don't want them to monitor it for me. I damned well want to hear it for myself.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
The moment CNN had Darth Cheney on for an 'interview' I stopped watching it. Ministery of Propaganda!
... made a joke about control groups (based on the age of his science advisor and the head of the academy).
Most news people don't do well with science. Science-based jokes are right out.
two atoms are at a party and they bump into each other, the first one says, "i think you just lost an electron. the second says, "are you sure?" the first answers, "i'm positive."
That's cute as it can be
President Obama quoted something Albert Einstein said when he attended an academy of sciences meeting. After listening to one long speech after another all day long, Einstein said he believed he had just formed another theory of eternity.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
But that was at the beginning when he made the joke. He was getting down to the nitty gritty when they decided to cut him off. I think about all that can be said about swine flu has been said for right now. At this point they are just repeating themselves. That's why I'm getting so pissed at the cable channels, they are 99% worthless during the day.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
... the Apollo missions and Jules Bergman actually explaining stuff to the viewers.
i remember not long ago when the country spent around 6 million dollars investigating clinton, it wasn't time to move forward until he was made to testify under oath about every damn detail of his sexual escapades. i mean i know what he did with a cigar, what the hell do i need to know that for? so one of the most powerful men in the world is held to complete transparency about his sex life because it was suspected he cheated on his wife and lied about it.
lie about taking a nation to war, detaining, torturing, and killing systematically and you get a pass.
i think we might have our priorities mixed up.
also, if we use "looking forward" as a precedent for not investigating or prosecuting crimes (pretty sure cheating isn't against the law) then i guess we could save a lot of money by just getting rid of the criminal justice system.
"looking forward" is just a way of saying i avoid learning from history when it hurts my feelings. that pesky knowledge truth thing is always interfering with my self esteem.
Yes, this is straight Ministery of Mis-information. Obama 'wants to move forward' GAG!!! and still he's 'targeting Holocaust Deniers'!!! Translates into suck up to BLOODYISRAEL both ways, doesn't it? Protect the war criminals, Kissinger is also one, as well as that whole mob that just almost left DC, but left brown shirts behind to sabatage anything, and everything. They are like a computer worm, or a predator fly that lays it's eggs in the bodies of living catapillers.
Christ almighty, it's like she's going to start tearing up at any minute. All I can say is stfu bitch and tell me the truth.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. ~ Abraham Lincoln
Why does this woman ever get to speak on television? She always talks as if she's the drugged grandmother speaking melodramatic hard grownup facts to her baby-sitting grandchildren. And she talked like that 20-years ago. She makes my eyes bug out my head looking at her syllables literally dripping off her pursed lips.
Peggy Grandmother, who lives in a Republican shoe, can you tell us a bedtime story about how American's can't walk and chew gum at the same time? I mean I know how beleaguered some in the CIA are feeling after being exposed as being lawless torturers. Considering the agency has a budget in the realm of billions of dollars, we just can't upset their poor little heads. Peggy Grandmother, is it true that Conservatism tastes better after a strong dose of denial and cognitive dissonance?
Peggy Noonan, please will you get off my TV set and waste someone else's time. And take your political granny-pants with you!
Peggy Noonan go submit yourself to a waterboarding demonstration please. You are a WAR CRIMES APOLOGIST. Go give Bush and Cheney and Rice and Rummy and Wolfie and Kissenger a big sloppy hug. Congratulate Obama for suggesting he'll break the law in not investigating war crimes while a signatory to the UN convention on torture.
I get a stiff pain in my neck when I think of this pollyanna getting paid 6 or 7 figure sums as a syndicated collumnist *puke ... well the media is chockablock with usefull idiots eh?
Her kneepads are a sad reminder to her of her days in the Reagan White House.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
is channeling Betty Butterfield. Use the googlenet if you are so inclined.
Isaacson and Noonan,,, can everyone use the ,,,, "that was in the past, its time to move on defense?"
fucking retarded!
Peggy is a horse's ass and always has been. But this "looking forward" business originally came from Obama. We have to continue to hold his feet to the fire and make sure there are investigations and any warranted prosecutions.
It's like these people want to believe that having an abusive husband or father in the family will be OK if we just keep quiet, don't talk about it, and hope for something different in the future.
Peggy is very used to "looking forward".
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Her dawgie wouldn't have it any other way.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
there is any need to hear of 9-11 anymore. That was then, this is now. It's time to move on.
to that doped up bitch that there IS a differnce between "mistakes" and crime! It's a mistake to detain the wrong person but it's a crime to torture them whether they're the wrong person or the right one!!!
I couldn't make it through her statement. It's so condescending and dripping with melodramatic, false sincerity.
I can withstand *minutes* of Glenn Beck, but Peggy Noonan... I'm sorry. You have bested me.
As the government of this country, remember it is OUR decision to prosecute or not.
The Justice Dept and, indeed, the justice system in this country belongs to us.
As such, WE will decide what gets prosecuted. The president and his Repub allies need to remember this.
Take heart America... Justice will be served if we demand it.
is what ol' Peg hopes will be buried in the past:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoo...
Just let bygones be bygones, eh, Peggy?
is what ol' Peg hopes will be buried in the past:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTkYxAKUxkg
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
the issue has always been that the powers that be can't handle the prison sentences that they need to serve.
It needs to be said, and the ball needs to be in the correct court: not on the American people's, but on the vermin responsible for this.
Hiding behind the "sensibilities" of the American people has always the way out for this pieces of shit.
They don't allow candle-waxing in the nudie magazine anymore either.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The people who matter are in D.C. doing real work. Send them a message, letting them know how your feel. They live in a political bubble, and it's up to us to let them know that the American people do not want to just forget this happened. Contact the White House, the Congress, the DoJ, and anyone else whose information you can get. Speak up!
I agree she is probably sharing Limp-Dick's pharmacy of pills he takes.
This morning at the gym I was watching Noonan on the Fareed Zakaria podcast - she was so full of shit I had to turn her off - listening was too painful...
It's about the government continuing to assert the right to decriminalize a crime before (and even after) the fact.
"In theory theory and practice are alike. In practice they are very different."
how interesting peggy noonan rather then government investigations wants "probing journalism"
they love journalists when they are not doing the job but when they DO the job all of a sudden they are treasonous
and do you notice how she puts on one of those "it pains me to talk" looks on her face like lieberman?
noonan is a tool
If you are a so-called jounalist, who can not handle the truth, maybe it is time to turn in your lap top!
Hmm...not a word that I believe the GOP associates with Peggy.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
I've been watching and listening to her soft, smooth and apologetic schmooze for "just moving on" BS. Yeah, we don't need to hold the criminals accountable. Let's have just one more HUGE situation where the white collar criminals get away with murder...literally...and the ordinary man goes to jail for breaking ANY law, no matter how trivial.
Utter bull shit!! I want justice. I want the criminals to be prosecuted. I want this laundry to be aired out and THEN we can move on. What is with these idiots??
Does anyone think there won't be another evil regime coming down the pike that considers what we do now? If we ignore and allow the crimes to go without action....do you honestly think they will be persuaded to obey the laws??? We are a nation of morons, but that doesn't mean we are ALL morons, does it??
Noonan represents everything wrong with the MSM. She needs to go. We need some fresh and alternative views in there. She really adds nothing to this torture conversation.
All she is really saying is trust the government and don't worry what they do in your name. It is alright to break the law if you are the government, especially when it is a Republican government. And to thing the persecuted Clinton for lying about a blow job, which everyone does. They hung him out to dry like the world was going to end. With the torture issue we are talking about a fundamental value of America. Does not even compare to a BJ.
Can't these news networks get someone a little younger in there and get away from these Reagan and Nixon people. These people represent a very bygone era. This is why the MSM is so stall and not so interesting these days.
Noonan, Buchanan and others need to go. We need some fresh views, even if they are from the right.
Isn't this the whore who carried water for the Bush Administration...who used her position with the New York Times to help Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield/Rice spread the lies and misinformation which led to the illegal attack and war in Iraq costing us the American People our Creditability around the world, Billions of Dollars and over 4,000 Service Men and Women Killed in Action???
NOONAN: Oh, it seems to me the world knows that things were done wrong. I think Obama has made it clear, coming forward, that his plans are to leave that old stuff behind.
There is always a temptation to focus on what the last administration in its mistakes did. I think the problems that are here, however, are so pressing, that sometimes you've just got to stop and say, "That was then. This is now. Move forward."
What about the Criaglist killer? The killing occured in the past. Should we as a society say, "That was then. This is now. Move forward." She an idiot, in denial and WRONG!
or is Peggy Noonan the most annoyingly boring low-talker available for these types of show?
believe half of the stuff they spew out, it's all about the money and the ratings.
I'm afraid to watch now, after the warning blurb. I can't take another one of her post-menstrual Oh-god-why-is-the-world-so-damned-complicated breakdowns. She's needs a hot bath, and then straight off to bed.
far left loon >.<
(Now) Watched it. Oh gawd, she's pathetic. She wants "investigative journalism" that just moves on if it gets too ugly??? WTF is that Peggy?
The truth won't tear the country apart, it will tear the politcal class apart. The people can handle it.
far left loon >.<
America can handle the truth! republicans cannot!
There is the rub!
Systematic breaking of US and international law and war crimes cannot be dismissed by calling them mistakes. A fender bender is a mistake. Hit and run of a pedestrian is a crime.
Since all crimes are in the past by the time they get to trial, then all legal actions are "dwelling on the past." As someone on HuffPo said (wish I could remember who) ~Didn't we used to call that Justice?~ (I use ~...~ as "paraphrase marks.")
And the typical twisting of a major issue into another more defensible issue is SOP: Most people are not calling for prosecution of the torturers. They can just say, "I vas only followink orderz."
The call is to prosecute the order givers and the minions who tried to justify it. IANAL, so if there are any here: the changes to the "legal analysis of EIT" came after the previous analyses were exceeded. Aren't these ex post facto and so cannot be applied to past actions?
Hopefully other countries will declare all involved as war criminals. While this only amounts to "house arrest", at least it is a start. Albeit a minor one. We can all pitch in and buy them tickets to a vacation visiting all of those countries.
If Bush shot a ``hobo'' to death, would his prosecution be dwelling on the past?
Clinton was impeached for, IIR (ie if I can find it with a famous search engine :-), perjury, obstruction of justice and abuse of power. Surely Bush can be investigated for the last two, at least. And every time some accessory after the fact says "dwelling on the past", we should ask "why wasn't Clinton's impeachment dwelling on the past? And you can't, in all honesty, say Clinton's crimes were worse than war crimes. And why does the GOP dwell on the past by bringing up Clinton when they need to deflect inquiry into their wrong doing?"
E Pleb Neesta
GODISNOWHERE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAn7baRbhx4
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