John McCain: Accountability For Torture is That People's Reputations Have Been Harmed Very Badly
By Heather Monday Jul 13, 2009 9:30am
Coming from someone who was tortured as a prisoner of war himself, this is pretty astounding. Never mind any accountability for torture, it's good enough that someone has had their reputation ruined. Sadly, he can get away with this sort of talk since he's being enabled by the Obama administration with their refusal to go after Bush administration officials for torturing prisoners.
GREGORY: Speaking about investigations, there's now word from Newsweek magazine today with a story about the attorney general, that he's getting closer to investigating alleged torture during the Bush administration. This is the reporting from Daniel Klaidman, that Holder "may be on the verge of asserting his independence in a profound way. Four sources telling Newsweek that he's now leaning towards appointing a prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration's brutal interrogation practices." Would that be a good idea?
McCAIN: No. Look, I fought against waterboarding. I said waterboarding was torture. We passed the Detainee Treatment Act, which prohibited cruel and inhumane treatment. I have spoken out as forcefully as possible everywhere against what went on and that we need--it harms our image so much around the world when photographs come out and--we all know that bad things were done. We all know that the operatives who did it most likely were under orders to do so. For us to continue this and harm our image throughout the world--I agree with the president of the United States, it's time to move forward and not go back.
GREGORY: But where's the accountability?
McCAIN: Well, the accountability, obviously, is that people's reputations have been harmed very badly. The question is, is do we want America's image harmed more by dragging this out further and further? You've got to--what's going to be the positive result from airing out and ventilating details of what we already knew took place and should never have, and we are committed to making sure never happens again? I do not excuse it, I'm just saying what's the, what's the effect on America's image in the world? I don't, I don't mean to drag out my answer, but I did meet with a high ranking member of al-Qaeda in a prison in Iraq who said his greatest recruiting tool was the pictures of Abu Ghraib. We don't want to give the, the terrorists and the radical Islamic extremists more tools and bullets to shoot against us and help their recruiting in this ongoing struggle we're in.
McCain was also asked about the CIA being told by the Bush admistration not to inform Congress about one of their programs. Of course McCain just doesn't know enough about it to weigh in on it.
Full transcript below the fold.
GREGORY: But first, Senator John McCain, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.
McCAIN: Thank you, David. Thanks for having me back again.
GREGORY: I'd like to--always happy to have you here. I want to start with some breaking news this morning. The front story in The New York Times is that former Vice President Dick Cheney kept Congress in the dark, his orders to keep Congress in the dark about a covert CIA program. It's a program that CIA Director Panetta has now shut down. He's briefed Congress about it. What do you know about this and what's your reaction to it?
McCAIN: Well, uncharacteristically, not a lot. I, I am not on the Intelligence Committee. I don't know what the details of this are. The vice president, I think, should obviously be heard from if the accusations are leveled in his direction. Clearly the Republicans did not sign a letter, apparently, that was written alleging this, so I, I think it's, frankly, too early for me to reach any conclusion.
GREGORY: It doesn't appear as if any lines were crossed, in your judgment?
McCAIN: I don't know because, again, a lot of this is anonymous sources.
GREGORY: Hm.
McCAIN: And this is--if I know Washington, this is the beginning of a pretty involved and detailed story. And I, I don't have enough information, but I think a lot more's to come on this.
GREGORY: Should there be an investigation, do you think?
McCAIN: I don't know if--first of all, I'd like to know the facts of the case before there should be an, "an investigation."
GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
SEN. McCAIN: How long did, did the director of the CIA know about this program and when did he terminate it? And all of these things are going to, are probably going to be heavily discussed in the weeks ahead.
GREGORY: Speaking about investigations, there's now word from Newsweek magazine today with a story about the attorney general, that he's getting closer to investigating alleged torture during the Bush administration. This is the reporting from Daniel Klaidman, that Holder "may be on the verge of asserting his independence in a profound way. Four sources telling Newsweek that he's now leaning towards appointing a prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration's brutal interrogation practices." Would that be a good idea?
McCAIN: No. Look, I fought against waterboarding. I said waterboarding was torture. We passed the Detainee Treatment Act, which prohibited cruel and inhumane treatment. I have spoken out as forcefully as possible everywhere against what went on and that we need--it harms our image so much around the world when photographs come out and--we all know that bad things were done. We all know that the operatives who did it most likely were under orders to do so. For us to continue this and harm our image throughout the world--I agree with the president of the United States, it's time to move forward and not go back.
GREGORY: But where's the accountability?
McCAIN: Well, the accountability, obviously, is that people's reputations have been harmed very badly. The question is, is do we want America's image harmed more by dragging this out further and further? You've got to--what's going to be the positive result from airing out and ventilating details of what we already knew took place and should never have, and we are committed to making sure never happens again? I do not excuse it, I'm just saying what's the, what's the effect on America's image in the world? I don't, I don't mean to drag out my answer, but I did meet with a high ranking member of al-Qaeda in a prison in Iraq who said his greatest recruiting tool was the pictures of Abu Ghraib. We don't want to give the, the terrorists and the radical Islamic extremists more tools and bullets to shoot against us and help their recruiting in this ongoing struggle we're in.
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Sen. McCain says we all know that wrongdoings were committed, and some important people have already been embarrassed. How tragic. Now he wonders, what effect would it have on the way the world views us if we proceed to investigate and prosecute those wrongdoings? Ummm, if we did, could the world perhaps get the impression that we actually live by our principles, rather than merely talking about them?
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Shorter McCain:
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I for one am so happy we didn't let this brain dead old fart into the whitehouse!
Could you imagine how fucked up things would have been with grandaddy numbnuts and that dizzy idiot from Alaska in charge?
Abstenance for everyone!
They want you to just say no to health care. Hell you would be better off dead since you don't have the money to pay your own way, like all those good republicans do!
mccain like every modern day republican is fucking nuts!
republicanism is a mental illness!
..would have quit by now.
of when grampy tied an onion to his belt (it was the style at the time)
how it wasn't the "reputation" of the North Vietnamese that we heard about when he talked about being a torture victim.
They'll never live that down.
We're lucky nobody thought to use such bulletproof logic during the Nuremberg trials.
That politically survived the Keating Five scandal which was characterized as "the most grievous ethic scandal in Senate history"
and...
crashed four US Navy Jets before being shot down in the fifth while carpet bombing residential Hanoi
and...
Picked Sarah "Cut and Run" Palin as his VP!
... he finished at the bottom of his class at Navy, and divorced the wife who stood by him during his captivity so that he could upgrade to a newer, better looking, wealthier model.
Somehow, the little regard Republicans have towards reputation makes McCain's words even the more pathetic.
If you think about it, really McCain is actually saying that the people behind all the torturing are the victims in all this.
Great point in reminding everyone, "McCain is actually saying that the people behind all the torturing ARE THE VICTIMS in all this."
Didn't the Republicans revile the Democrats for 'playing the victim' for years??!!
I mean, I sorta need the money. Don't get me wrong, I could go earn the money but it would involve, well...like work and stuff. So I can just stick up a bank, hope I don't kill any innocent bystanders (I really don't want to)and if someone calls me a "criminal" my reputation will be ruined. That was snark. Have these fuc*ers lost their minds?
Is he fuckin' KIDDING?? Oh, sure he spoke out against waterboarding, but he voted IN FAVOR of allowing the Bush cabal to ACTUALLY DO IT.
I guess torture IS justified - after all, when Traitor Johnny made all those propaganda films for North Vietnam, he obviously really meant it.
The important part is that he says he is against waterboarding, just like the US says we are against torture. Sure McCain didn't do anything about it, but it might have hurt somebodies reputation.
Gosh, you libruls can be so dense sometimes.
if people's reputations have been damaged, isn't that enough? i mean, i don't think so, but he does, right?
Horrors that some old, fat, white men in suits should have 'damaged' reputations!!!! There are some 1,000 people who were 'rendered' and many died, a figure that has been danced around and lost in the shuffle. The few that 'survived' did so in body only, with mental, emotional lives more like a flat-liners. They are severely traumatized, have permanent injuries because of the treatment, are people without a country, no way of surviving in this modern world no matter what skills they might have had before they met King Geo. All these people did was go on a trip....................a trip to HELL!!, but God forbid that the perps should be embarrassed. We won't even go into an illegal war of exploitation, millions dead, thousands displaced.............
on that SOB yesterday and I stand by them. His position today is owed totally to the vagina he poped out of with the lineage that came with it. Oh and marrying a rich gal after deserting his poor wife.I still don't understand how getting your sorry ass shot down makes you a Hero. In a pilots opinion it makes you a lousy pilot.
He doesn't even rank very high on my skankometer anymore, there are too manny asshole conservatives worse than him , he's not even in my top ten asshole list anymore
But "disco" Gregory will sniff any jock he can get close to.
Let's see McCain's list of accomplishments:
Finished at the bottom of his class @ Navy
Crashed 4 planes
Created an international incident by cutting off the electrical distribution cables to a big chuck of Southern Spain while hotdogging
His plane was responsible for one of the biggest military disasters in US Navy's history. By basically setting the USS Forestall on fire.
Was shotdown by the enemy, even though he had ejected more times than most pilots in the navy he still managed to botch the ejection (his arms were damaged during the ejection not because of torture like he tries to pretend)
Hadn't it been for his captors, he would have drowned
He made copious amounts of propaganda films for the Vietnamese
He dumped his loyal wife for a beer fortune heiress
He was involved in one of the major scandals in the history of the US senate
He allowed Rove et al to badmouth his adopted child, etc, etc, etc.
He seems to be an expert at failing, if you ask me. Nothing mediocre about his f*ckup historial... he is the cream of the creme when it comes to screwing up.
In fact, there must be a selected few in our country which have screwed up as big and as often as McCain.... If you look at the term FUBAR in the encyclopedia, chances are that a picture of McCain will accompany the pertinent article.
His dad and granddad must be so proud. How did that apple fall so far from the tree?
a hero". Never heard anyone stand behind General Wesley Clark for pointing out that (paraphrasing) 'getting shot down DOESN'T make you a hero.'
Not even the Democrats.
Indeed.
When Clark said it (on Face the Nation,) Bob Schieffer was astounded that getting shot down didn't automatically qualify Grampa to be president.
Heck, I once wrecked my car; guess I'm qualified to at least be a governor.
... they are hoarding an Indy 500 title from you somewhere ;-)
years from now senator mccain, do you suppose that people looking back will be more concerned about the reputations of the people involved or the erosion of the rule of law that was precipitated at their hands?
... that thugs like Dick Cheney are still greeted with a red carpet by the media and allowed to perpetuate the very nonsense that led to the policy of torture.
So, what's doing more harm, McCain? That we aren't looking to hold anyone accountable, or that those responsible are STILL LYING and we're still pretending they have credibility?
Usually, if someone has the reputation of being a liar, you show them the door.
Shouldn't Cheney be on the teevee machine today telling us why the New York Times is wrong and he single-handedly protected the country from certain destruction by sexually humiliating a cab driver?
Maybe he's having heart trouble in an undisclosed bunker somewhere.
McCAIN: I don't know if--first of all, I'd like to know the facts of the case before there should be an, "an investigation."
Seriously. WTF?!
Isn't an investigation HOW you 'get the facts' ....
And this clown thought he should be President?
Maybe he means we should have a pre-investigation.
one question for McCain. A few years ago the Catholic Church was hit hard by the scandal of pedophile priests. Now which was worse for the church's reputation, that some of their priests were bad, or that the church tried to cover it up and ignore the crimes committed?
I wish Gregory had brought it up.
...would have required an actual journalist.
On top of sucking McCains c*ck, and having to breathe at the same time. You were expecting Mr. Gregory to ask tough apropos questions? What do you think David Gregory is a ventriloquist?
Right now the name of the country is sullied. The fact that crimes and torture were committed is a cat that won't go back in the bag now. By refusing to investigate they only raise suspicion that the crimes are far worse than what is already known. We have procedures for investigations, follow them.
This further damages the reputation of the country, in many ways.
Next question, why aren't we asking the question, are you stupid or just a traitor? McCain seem to think the damage to certain personal images is an appropriate price to pay for damage to the country's image abroad and at home. He disgraces his uniform in doing this.
These are the same guys who say what's a little taser shock now and then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITJSVQjd9BE
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Q U E S T I O N:
So, John McTORTURE thinks his torturers should be forgiven?
It's enough knowing that they nearly killed him. THAT'S their accountability for what they did to him?
He's NO MAVERICK...
... He's a coward!
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...say shit like this, I really wonder just how much he really was tortured. I would sure like to hear from his fellow prisoners before they're all gone.
...was an idiot and he confirms my suspicion every time he opens his pie-hole.
If reputation damage is all we ask in the form of punishment of law breakers, why wasn't that enough for the Germans and Japanese we executed for doing it?
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Someone should ask the Senator if Charlie Manson has had his reputation ruined enough yet...
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Of course it wasn't enough for the Germans and Japanese, but we are Americans! Those rules are for poor people.
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Q U E S T I O N:
If Obama/Holder plan to pursue a cases against those that went "outside" the orders given...
... What does that say about the orders that were given to TORTURE?
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They've finally released a tape of mcgramp's naval academy flight training experience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMhdksPFhCM
...count on ysb to give me my daily dose of humor...
Why do these moron's live so long? I will be so glad once these so-called "conservatives" die off and are replaced hopefully by intelligent new blood who are not stupid enough to pass this TOTAL B.S. off on the public... "peoples reputations have been harmed" ... WHAT A CROCK!
Judging by some of the younger GOP members and operatives (Bachmann, Goodling, sLuntz, Posey, Van Zant), it's only going to get worse.
That's not even considering the embalmed ones like Mittens, Boehner, and Cantor.
Nevermind. Even if you find him grandpa nothing can make up for your giving us Palin.
Actually, I think we should THANK him for giving us Palin; people who may have been on the fence during the last election saw her and said, "No way can I vote for that dingbat!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKwdRHovYok
waiting for McCain [creepy grin].
Hearing McCain talk about damaged reputations, like he's emerged from his political gymnastics unscathed. His tortured explanation for Palin's 'non-quitting resignation' is classic old man prattle.
America's reputation would improve a hundred fold if the Bush officials who created the torture program were brought to justice.
It is NOT holding them accountable that ruins our reputation.
Duh!!
Somebody please pass this note from Mountainman along to Obama and Holder.
..STFU you old fool!
I would love to go after the bastards that tortured you for their crimes. Has anyone ever held them accountable? Did they sign international agreements NOT to torture people? Are they at least as civilized as we claim to be? Are we not a nation of laws that you are sworn to uphold and protect?
PLEASE STFU!
"damaged reputations", in DC-speak, is a higher form of praise, indicating a willingness to work against the wishes of the voters, and do one's part to continue some illegality.
aka Republican US Senator from Arizona [...or Nevada, or Louisiana, or Idaho...]
the Gov. from SC, the AG from Alabama, Sen. from Oklahoma.
Reputations really don't matter to the chosen class.
I'm sorry but McGrampy isn't worried about the American image, he is only worried about the Republican's image.
The republican brand has been tainted by all their scandels (remember when they made such a big deal about the 1 scandle Clinton had?) that their party is no longer going to make any kind of a difference in this country.
As soon as the MSM gets out of their pockets, that is.
"..what's going to be the positive result from airing out and ventilating details of what we already knew took place and should never have,.."
Maybe, just maybe we'll gain a little respect in the world considering how much was lost due to a simpleton President named George Bush. Maybe, just maybe no President will ever think about doing this again. Maybe, just maybe we'll use tried and true methods of interrogation to get the information we need instead of the BS manufactured to get the torture to stop.
I could probably go on but this man's service to the country has been admirable. Mr. Senator, go play some golf will you?
Note to Meet the Press producers:
How about scheduling guests on your show that are relevant and actually know something. I, for one, am sick of hearing right-wing nonsense spouted by profiteering Republican hacks.
That is all.
Precisely why I stopped watching MTP a few years back: nothing but rightwing crap-spewers.
... into accepting the MSM meme from Rush. They're like abused wives, unable to see that their 'view' has been controlled, and their actions reflect that distorted reality. They're also unable to divorce themselves from it.
Although you'd think a simple diet of facts would do the trick, I think extensive counseling and restructuring of self-esteem based on accurate reporting (as opposed to the approval and praise of Republicans) is called for.
...wrong on that Shadow. They absolutely are NOT brainwashed. They are owned by corporate interests who benefit from keeping as many neocons in politics as possible.
They weren't brainwashed, they were born dysfunctional.
If you'd rather buy into RUSH LIMBAUGH'S story, be my guest.
I don't see why the left completely falls all over themselves to validate a right-wing meme that promotes FOX News.
You are assuming that the media was ever liberal to begin with. I don't figure that Viacom, GE, and Disney execs lose alot of sleep over Rush calling them liberal.
Waterboard McCain. Maybe he's forgotten what it's like.
for this scumbag again it is obvious that they are dim-witted, in-bred red-necks that form the conservative (Republican) base.
John McCain should not have the nerve to spout his bull-shit torture apologist dialogue in front of Americans.
Why is no one talking about the soldier that was captured by the Taliban in Afghanistan. This would be the first soldier to be taken prisoner since Gulf War I. Why is nobody asking about the welfare of this soldier? Why are the torture apologists not standing up and saying it is perfectly alright for the Taliban to torture this American soldier. They say it is ok for the U.S. to torture anyone they want. Let them stand up and spout their bull-shit now!
Very good point!
...it's not torture when the US does it. It's "enhanced interrogation."
WifeCheater McCrashSixPlanes should just let the people of rational mind take over. the man is clearly delusional. he led the charge to impeach Clinton for a blow job but "reputation damage" is sufficient for illegal torture?
really? i think Grampy McTortureIgnorer needs his nap. pronto.
As I said before, we're still treating Dick Cheney like he's the expert on national security. We're treating Liz Cheney like she's the Archangel Gabriel.
We are still having 'discussions' over the validity of torture when we have the authorizing signature of George W. Bush via signing statement, we have the Bybee/Yoo Memos, we have firsthand accounts of torture, and we have reports showing limited effectiveness, further underscored by one of the subjects admitting to spinning wild tales to get the torture to stop.
But Bush is still flapping his gums and living in a posh suburb. Yoo is still teaching law.
Bybee is still an appeals court judge.
Reverse Ace McCain only crashed four planes, the fifth was lost when he almost sank the USS Forrestal (135 killed, 161 injured).
such contempt for America's laws and values as that exhibited by these filthy nasty America hating, torture loving Republican scum.
i guess this is just a snippet of what a *chills* mccain ad-mad-istration would have been like. in a mccain "justice" department accountability would simply be the triangulated factor between crime and reputation damage--that is for DC establishment asswipes
Only an insane wrongwinger would be thinking about the torturers feelings in all this. Bring them all to justice. Enablers and apologists STFU!
One problem with McCain's statement is that those reputations are held by people who really don't give a crap; they have no conscience. If they did, torture would not have been committed in the first place.
What a bastard.
if we prosecuted these assholes.
First of all, when this decrepit geezer talks about "peoples" reputations, he's talking about protecting "theirs" not ours or our country's reputation. As potty-mouth George Carlin use to say... "The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Good honest hard-working people continue to elect these rich c$#@s%@#kers who don’t give a f$#@ about you. They don’t give a f$#@ about you . . . they don’t give a f$#@ about you. They don’t care about you at all . . . at all!!!
What about the Enlisted that were convicted of using torture? They said at their trials they were instructed to use torture. Turns out they were right. Now John McCain doesn't want reputations to be ruined.
Bull Hockey.
" . . what's going to be the positive result from airing out and ventilating details of what we already knew took place and should never have, and we are committed to making sure never happens again?"
You know I robbed that bank, but the details are not necessary, my reputation is ruined, and I promise never to do it again.
You don't need to hold a trial, really, I've learned my lesson.
mccain's navy makes McHale's Navy look like Naval Seals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhhsVZozmF0
Now that made my blood boil.
Here's an idea, if you are concerned about your REPUTATION, stand up for American (and international)law and don't approve TORTURE!!!
If john McCain has an infection, he just lets it fester, so it can spread and infect his entire body. John McCain for president?
and Sarah $ Palin? The Republicans are done, and the MSM simply won't acknowledge it.
What he went through was just a bit of frat house hazing. Just ask Limpballs....
America's reputation is already in the crapper. NOT prosecuting confirms our worst fears. The U$A is above the law and no one is safe.
I wonder what he would say if Clinton ordered the torture???
I think he's only worried about the GOP's reputation.
Mcain is right! NOBODY should be prosecuted and made to face personal accountability for ANY crime! Open the jails and prisons! Let all those criminals out! After all, their reputations have been damaged enough. Poor Charles Manson. Poor Sirhan Sirhan. Poor Richard Speck.
Damned sociopathic Republicans like McCain are hopelessy Un-American and as stupid as a bag of hammers.
Answer: Lyndie England
See? Her reputation is ruined. She's recognized everywhere she goes (in her town of 800). She just wants the whole thing to be forgotten. I know because it says so in her book (available for $22.95 at Amazon.com and several retail outlets near you.)
Senator McCain asks: "what's going to be the positive result from airing out and ventilating details of what we already knew took place and should never have, and we are committed to making sure never happens again?"
How about Showing the world that America is a Nation committed to the rule of law, where no-one whether they be rich or powerful is held ABOVE the law, and that those who break the laws are punished just like any other criminal.
misuse, why it is always not a good thing to look back. They did not seem to have any problem getting Ken Star to look back at Clinton. So somehow, that was not looking back, and this is. The previous administration run amuck and broke the law, it’s time to pay up, just like the rest of us common folk have to.
at the end of that interview.
I would have made McCain name names. I would have asked, "What are the names of the people whose reputations have been harmed very badly?"
His entire answer was B.S. and everyone knows it. If he's going to insult our intelligence with a B.S. non-answer, fine we should force him to point fingers and make an ass of himself or back peddle and make an ass of himself.
There's no need for us to
So if someone is a murderer and it's reported in the media, they've suffered enough? What crime should be punished by prison, and what should be punished by being reported?
You mean like:
http://www.weird-encyclopedia.com/images/vlad...
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